Steve, sorry that post about the Christian counselor must be further back than I realized. I'm in a bit of a rush at the moment but I'll paste it here later. That sounds like the right thing to not involve the church. Your approach of blending techniques is interesting to me - I've done that to some extent. As I've suggested in some other posts, I think it's worth trying a few things to see what works and what doesn't. Not switching approaches completely but throwing in a different twist here-and-there to see if it makes you or your spouse react more positively or make any progress.
Next Friday I will turn 40. I have mixed feelings about. I'm not happy about it. I wish I was turning 30 again. On the other hand I'm thankful to be alive because six months ago my health was so bad I couldn't even drink water without severe pain. I did the last diagnostic medical test I needed to do yesterday to rule out two rare conditions. If it comes back negative then it seems I have a chronic condition (erosive gastritis) that I need to manage but the doctors say I should be ok. So I guess turning 40 and being alive, working towards better health, is better than the unlikely alternative of having had something worse that could have killed me.
I've been trying to read and respond to as many posts here as possible. For some reason I still feel different than most people here though. I still miss my husband. When I read Louise's post about her husband's manic behavior I don't know if my husband is mentally ill. He has ADHD that's never been treated and he's followed the same cycle now three times in recent years (first time was brief and he didn't leave) of depression followed by euphoria that always involves having an affair, going to the gym everyday, spending money wrecklessly, and acting completely against his upbringing, religion, and morals. Then the affair ends, he comes back to reality, is sorry, and wants to fix things. Except this past time, before he left the second time, I punished him so badly that I think it pushed him back into depression and he gave up. I don't know. Yes, he's a bad person, but I wonder how much of it is him choosing to be bad and how much is driven by a chemical imbalance that needs to be treated with medication.
Reading about Larry and Liza, and then EastTN's loss, I don't want to do anything that would put anyone's life at risk. I can't stop or control my husband's behavior, but I'm trying to learn to communicate in a way that empowers us both. It's so hard. Our story isn't over yet because the divorce appears to be on hold....or so it seems. Who knows, maybe the papers will come next week.
All, I finally got to go to the house to gather my stuff on Saturday night. My husband wasn't particularly nice. There is some high tech electronic lock on the door and security system now so apparently even if I had wanted to go alone it wouldn't have been possible. My husband showed my daughter and I around and the place looks just beautiful now that the renovations are almost done (it's a new house but he ripped out the interior and started over).
It was difficult to see that's where I could be living and to imagine how wonderful and perfect life would be if we could be together there as a family. On the way out, my daughter asked in her innocent voice, "Daddy, why aren't we allowed to live in this house?" My husband said, "I'm going to come and live in your new city too." He didn't really answer her question, but he told me that night he's going to sell the house and move to our city. I don't know when that'll happen and I don't know how I feel about that. I thought I was moving on, starting over far away, and now my husband will be there too.
It's nice if my husband wants to be close to our daughter. It would be better for all of us to be together in the same city. My husband's family also lives near that city so perhaps he feels he should be closer to them. Or maybe he realizes that living alone in a huge mansion doesn't make sense.
In any case, I couldn't help it. I was in tears as we got in the care after hearing my daughter's question and after seeing the house again. Ten years ago we dreamed to reach this point of having a stable life with a house and child and now my husband threw it all away.
Yesterday it was my daughter's birthday party. My husband came but he looked miserable and was unengaged. He was staring at his phone most of the time and wouldn't speak to me. When I would try to approach him he'd give me an angry look and then he left early.
Then today we had the moving truck come and I needed some extra money and my husband was so mad that he had to send more.
This was after things had gone well for a while. I think our visit to the house did something to my husband. He was obviously stressed or felt guilty or was just annoyed by it.
Tomorrow night or Wednesday morning my daughter and I will leave. My husband is supposed to meet us at our new place on Friday morning. We'll see how he acts then, but if it's not good then I'll ask him to leave.
I did learn that both my daughter's teach and my gastroenterologist (who is also my husband's friend) have talked with my husband about what's happening. I wonder if either of them persuaded him to hold off on the divorce?
The only good thing I found at the house is there's no sign of another woman living there. I could tell by how stuff was thrown all around that it was just my husband there...it would be especially cruel to find that another woman was living in our house. I'm glad that it's most likely not the case. There's already enough to be upset about.
I have so many mixed feelings about my husband's plans and about what will happen in the next year or two. I have one special friend who keeps calling or writing every day trying to help and that person will visit when I get to the new city this weekend. At my daughter's party I also felt a lot of sympathy and support from my friends there. This forum is great because we're all going through similar situations but real life support is also invaluable.
Nicole, I think you nailed it with the guess of him feeling guilty. As soon as I read what your D asked him, and then his actions at her birthday party I think it triggered guilt. My guess is that he would love to say "stay, don't go, we'll live in the house and work on R", but that he feels that it is too late? I hesitate to say that since I don't want you to act on it, but it does seem like he is having a war inside of himself.
My wife was the most depressed and the saddest after BD when she started having second thoughts about what she was doing. I could see the war going on inside of her and the outward showing was depression and sadness. Once she came through it she was much more invested in the MR again, though a piece of her still wasn't ready to give up the fantasy.
10 and half years later we are still heartbroken about Larry. I truly believe he would still be here today if Liza hadn't already put stress on to his already fragile health.
And your D's question to your husband breaks my heart. Don't these WASs realize or care what they are doing to the kids? It really struck me when MWD talked about being an adult and still being sad that her parents marriage ended. It ALWAYS has an affect on the kids no matter what people want to think or believe.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
So H is feeling guilty, and finding life isn't the bowl of cherries he thought it would be? Fu$% him. Has his behavior changed at all? No? Fu$% him. Was he engaged with your daughter at her birthday party? No? Fu$% him. He was angry you need more money for the moving company? Fu$% him. He's meeting you in the new city on Friday? So what? Is that supposed to make up for his affair, and moving out? Fu$% him. Tell him you don't want him there on Friday, and you don't want him moving to your new city. Get away from this jackass as soon as you can.
You don't need him. You are going to be so much better off without him. Detach, detach, detach.
(sorry if this was a little harsh)
(((hugs)))
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Steve, I feel it's optimistic to think my husband feels guilty but maybe he does. Maybe just regarding our daughter. He's probably trying to rationalize it by saying to himself that I was a bad wife, that I didn't give him the freedom he wanted, punished him too much, etc.. and he's angry at me. There's been no indication he's interested in reconciling but for almost a month we had been getting along well, laughing together, and talking normally. I was happy about that because it gives our daughter a better sense of security when she see's her parents getting along. It helps me too because I felt more at ease.
Jim, yeah, my husband can no longer get a free pass. I still think we're probably more of a burden and annoyance to my husband but perhaps his life also isn't the fantasy he thought it'd be living alone in our dream house and having a 26 year old carefree girlfriend with whom to party without any commitment. He must be getting a little taste of reality. I think it'll be a while until he actually moves near us. It's better in a logistical sense to have him near our daughter but not better for me. The only consolation is the city where we're going is kind of my territory, where I have a large network of very respected and senior friends from my husband's country. There's little chance he can get a new job there without interacting with them. They all helped him and gave him recommendations in the past. I won't give them all the details about what happened, but I'll be honest in telling them it was my husband's decision to leave. That will look bad for him. It's a very bad thing in their culture to abandon your wife and kids even if you help financially. So hopefully I have the upper hand in where we're going. At the same time I want my husband to be successful because I want our daughter to have the best father possible. I want to have a good relationship with him even if we're divorced because that's what's best for our daughter. And if he ever wishes to reconcile, which is something I can't really imagine, this time he'll have to do the hard work and get professional help and it'll take a long time before we could try again. I'd love that, but I know if I let him come back easily the same thing will happen again.
It would be easier in a way to write off my husband and just never deal with him again, but we have a beautiful innocent child and I have to try to figure out the best way for us to get through this.
Steve, I feel it's optimistic to think my husband feels guilty but maybe he does. Maybe just regarding our daughter. He's probably trying to rationalize it by saying to himself that I was a bad wife, that I didn't give him the freedom he wanted, punished him too much, etc.. and he's angry at me. There's been no indication he's interested in reconciling but for almost a month we had been getting along well, laughing together, and talking normally. I was happy about that because it gives our daughter a better sense of security when she see's her parents getting along. It helps me too because I felt more at ease.
For my W and I this is how we started moving toward R. I think I've mentioned that in February we went to a marriage retreat. I also mentioned that at the retreat, at lunch on the last day, she rebelled against what she was hearing (and I think feeling too). And that was that marriage is a commitment for life. Messages similar to marrige is being married to the right person, it is doing right by the person you married. Etc.
At lunch that day she made a comment about me chatting with a woman online. I wasn't, and she said it flippantly. And then when I just shook my head and smiled, she came back with "It would be OK if you were." This set me off and the rest of the lunch was tense and we discussed our MR. She was still feeling the tug of wanting out but she was also feeling that not only should she say, but also that she was starting to want to stay.
We went back to the retreat, and I could feel the tension. But during one of the presentations I reached over and took her hand. Then later I put my arm around her. She put her hand on my knee. That night we went out for dinner and had a great time. She was affectionate (laying her head on my shoulder as we waited for a table), holding my hand, etc.
The next day we left to come home, and we had a great time on the 8 hour drive (other than discovering someone had broken into our trunk and stole thousands of dollars in camera equipment (she is a photographer)). We laughed, we joked, we sang to songs. She played newer songs that she liked for me. It was fun, light, free of MR talk, and just really a great time. We continued this after we got home. In fact, in our next MC session she told the counselor that as we had fun together and laughed and had fun conversation that she was moving towards wanting to stay in the MR.
I really believe it started with the fun, frivolous conversation, and reconnecting on a level that you do when you are first dating. Again, I don't know your H or his thinking, but based on your saying you were enjoying each other's company, and then your D's question and his reaction, it seems like he is rebelling against feelings of wanting to work on the MR.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
I moved and I'm now in my new apartment in a new state far away from my husband. I don't want to bore you with all the many details of the past week, but we arrived here last Friday and my husband met us upon arrival. He didn't do much while the movers were moving everything. We had lunch together with our daughter but there wasn't much conversation. My husband was on his phone most of the time. He then left after two hours at our place to return to his family who lives nearby. Our daughter was crying and begging him to stay as he was leaving but he left anyway. I said a few mean things to him about leaving his daughter when she's crying and I later apologized but it's really hard to watch our daughter suffer. He also knew it was my 40th birthday that day and didn't say happy birthday. His coming just made our day much worse as I expected.
My husband returned the next day and brought us a huge, expensive new TV. My initial reaction for the first two minutes was "please can you return this? A TV isn't the priority right now when we have so many other expenses and I'm not working yet...." Then I realized my husband wanted to give us this as a gift and he was proud of it so I thanked him and tried to show appreciation. He left and returned with a TV stand that he spent two hours putting together. Then he set up some other stuff in our apartment. I can't figure out him out...the day before he did nothing. Then the next day he wanted to be helpful. Towards the end of the second day our daughter did something funny and I looked at my husband and smiled and he said "don't look at me and smile, I don't like it." I ignore him and was unpacking in another room and he came after a while asking me how much money I have. I told him if he can't speak to me respectfully I'm not speaking to him. He said "I'm sorry but it annoys me when you do that."
My husband soon left but he called that night and said he sent a decent sum of money for anything we need. Then we barely talked the last few days because I had visitors from out-of-state and had fun with them.
Today my husband called and asked if we have enough money. He said if I need an iron (which I had forgotten to pack) he'll order me a good one. He also said he's working on coming back for a visit and will soon let me know when it'll be.
I know everyone will say to just detach, which is what I've been doing and thankfully most days for the next few weeks are booked with meetings, activities, events, etc... It helps to be close to everyone again.
On Monday I received a message from my husband saying, "I tried to call many times but there is no answer. Are you there?" I responded saying we were out all day and busy. He responded and said he just wanted to say hi to our daughter.
I'm doing a better job with DB now that I'm here, but I struggle to understand how to interpret my husband's words and actions. Why is he so mean and yet he buys us gifts and sends extra money?
I assume my husband feels guilty. Does that sound right? He hasn't expressed any interest in reconciling, so I assume he just feels guilty for leaving and wants to make sure we're ok. I can only imagine he wants to feel less guilty so he can enjoy his freedom more. Is that how others would read this?
Steve, it's so nice to hear how you and your wife were able to re-connect without talking about the relationship. This is where I failed two years ago with my husband. He left the first time and came back begging to work things out but all I could focus on, or talk about, was how we're going to fix the marriage, when we'd fix it, and I'd continually punish him and act sarcastic about his leaving. I wish I'd tried your strategy of just letting things happen naturally. Despite the fact that I should have perhaps just let my husband go back then, I think we'd be in a totally different place now if I had just let things go and stopped being so intent on fixing everything.
I think we'd be in a totally different place now if I had just let things go and stopped being so intent on fixing everything.
Nicole - STOP IT!!!! This is a man who said he wished your daughter had never been born!!!! The marriage would not have been saved if only you did things this way or that - the problem is in HIM!!! He's not a good man ( no good man would say that about his own child no matter how exasperated).
You didn't break him and you can't fix him. If he wants to give you stuff out of guilt, take it - don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
Keep moving forward, enjoy your friends, find a great job and let go of him.
I moved and I'm now in my new apartment in a new state far away from my husband. I don't want to bore you with all the many details of the past week, but we arrived here last Friday and my husband met us upon arrival. He didn't do much while the movers were moving everything. We had lunch together with our daughter but there wasn't much conversation. My husband was on his phone most of the time. He then left after two hours at our place to return to his family who lives nearby. Our daughter was crying and begging him to stay as he was leaving but he left anyway. I said a few mean things to him about leaving his daughter when she's crying and I later apologized but it's really hard to watch our daughter suffer. He also knew it was my 40th birthday that day and didn't say happy birthday. His coming just made our day much worse as I expected.
My husband returned the next day and brought us a huge, expensive new TV. My initial reaction for the first two minutes was "please can you return this? A TV isn't the priority right now when we have so many other expenses and I'm not working yet...." Then I realized my husband wanted to give us this as a gift and he was proud of it so I thanked him and tried to show appreciation. He left and returned with a TV stand that he spent two hours putting together. Then he set up some other stuff in our apartment. I can't figure out him out...the day before he did nothing. Then the next day he wanted to be helpful. Towards the end of the second day our daughter did something funny and I looked at my husband and smiled and he said "don't look at me and smile, I don't like it." I ignore him and was unpacking in another room and he came after a while asking me how much money I have. I told him if he can't speak to me respectfully I'm not speaking to him. He said "I'm sorry but it annoys me when you do that."
My husband soon left but he called that night and said he sent a decent sum of money for anything we need. Then we barely talked the last few days because I had visitors from out-of-state and had fun with them.
Today my husband called and asked if we have enough money. He said if I need an iron (which I had forgotten to pack) he'll order me a good one. He also said he's working on coming back for a visit and will soon let me know when it'll be.
I know everyone will say to just detach, which is what I've been doing and thankfully most days for the next few weeks are booked with meetings, activities, events, etc... It helps to be close to everyone again.
On Monday I received a message from my husband saying, "I tried to call many times but there is no answer. Are you there?" I responded saying we were out all day and busy. He responded and said he just wanted to say hi to our daughter.
I'm doing a better job with DB now that I'm here, but I struggle to understand how to interpret my husband's words and actions. Why is he so mean and yet he buys us gifts and sends extra money?
I assume my husband feels guilty. Does that sound right? He hasn't expressed any interest in reconciling, so I assume he just feels guilty for leaving and wants to make sure we're ok. I can only imagine he wants to feel less guilty so he can enjoy his freedom more. Is that how others would read this?
Steve, it's so nice to hear how you and your wife were able to re-connect without talking about the relationship. This is where I failed two years ago with my husband. He left the first time and came back begging to work things out but all I could focus on, or talk about, was how we're going to fix the marriage, when we'd fix it, and I'd continually punish him and act sarcastic about his leaving. I wish I'd tried your strategy of just letting things happen naturally. Despite the fact that I should have perhaps just let my husband go back then, I think we'd be in a totally different place now if I had just let things go and stopped being so intent on fixing everything.
Nicole, good to hear from you. First of all, Happy Birthday! Hope you had an otherwise good day.
As far as your past mistakes, don't dwell on those. Note them, learn from them, and put them behind you. One thing I absolutely know is that you cannot change the past! I know, I've tried! But seriously, dwelling on what you could have done differently is only good for the learning it provides moving forward. The good news is that no matter what has happened until now, there is always hope for R. Even when it feels and seems least likely. Find ItHurts' recent updates. His wife is now making overtures at getting back together after their D has been final for 4 years!
So there is always hope.
As far as the expensive gifts and the money, likely your husband thinks that this is how you cover for poor behavior. Act badly, use money to fix it. I see this behavior in my FiL. He has a history of behaving badly, and then trying to fix it with money and gifts. My W has struggled with him doing this her entire life. Has your husband ever been in IC? Would he consider it? Based on the history you have shared with us, and his current behavior, it sounds like he could stand to benefit from some therapy.
My W's father is a child of an alcoholic parent. This has caused him to be extremely driven and professionally successful. Much less successful at personal relationships. And he sees his money as his power. Power to get what he wants. Power to control those he wants to control. Power to fix things when he makes mistakes.
Anyway, I will continue to pray for you and for your family. Keep your chin up, you are going to be fine. No matter what happens you will get through. You are a strong person and you will overcome. And you are valuable, not only to those around you but especially to your D!
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
