Help evaluating LRT progress

[Olya]

So, a major update!

Got home a little earlier today and managed to have a chat with hubbie.

He's angry and miserable.

I came in at 8 o'clock at night and he was already in bed watching YouTube videos on his phone.

He is incredibly snippy with me and will not make eye contact. When I told him that it was way too early to go to bed, he snapped back "well, you can go do whatever it is that you do at night." He quickly corrected that to "play videogames," but he definitely meant last Saturday when I went hiking all day and then took myself to a movie.

He was pestering me to know when I'd bring the second bed over. (His mom has an inflatable guest bed.) I intend to delay doing that for as long as I can.

Cherry on top? His "fabulous" day that he planned with his buddy who's going to college 2 hours out from here completely fell through. The guy stood him up. Didn't even call. My husband planned restaurant, bar, and movies. The guy completely forgot about him. Now, part of me feels really bad for hubbie. But there's also a part that's totally gloating because the man has spent the better part of last year telling me that he doesn't need me because he has his friends and they will be there for him. (That's something that has yet to happen.) Of course, I only showed him the part of me that is heartbroken for him.

Also, I got to see what kind of music he had been listening too. I didn't snoop or anything. The YouTube app on our living room TV is hooked up to my account and he uses it quite a bit. So, some songs started popping up on my phone app marked as having been listened to when I know I definitely did not listen to them. Among them are "Break Down Here" by Julie Roberts, "Tin Man" by Miranda Lambert, "Not Ready to Make Nice" by Dixie Chicks, and "Remind Me" by Brad Paisley. This ain't his usual playlist.


So, what I'm doing - staying away from him and getting a life - is definitely working. My question is whether you guys think I'm taking it too far. I don't want to hurt him and I don't want to drive him away. And I really don't want him to think that I gave up on him.

[Olya]

So, another update. Just noticed that he took our wedding picture off the shelf in the living room. He just placed it on top of a bunch of books face down.

Should I put it back, or should I leave it where it is?

[44tries]

I'm glad to hear what you are doing is working! It definitely sounds like you are making progress and, while sad for him, he is learning sooner rather than later that the grass isn't greener.

I am right with you about wondering where the line is. Don't push them away, don't pursue them. Doesn't feel like a lot of room for error. I don't think you are going too far. And the fact that you are seeing results reinforces this. You are still there for him. If he really needed you and called you, would you be there? I think you would. It's his choice to shut you out, not yours. As long as he is still clear that you don't think divorce is the answer (back to Amoafwl's quote), I don't see how there would be any confusion about you having given up on him. The way he is currently treating you is not a way that is testing whether you are there. If and when he starts to wonder, he will change his approach and I don't think you will 'fail' that test.

I would say the rules say to leave it where it is. But, I know how it stings. When I saw that my wife had taken off her wedding ring, I felt it all the way down to my soul. But, I think you just have to let it be part of the process. Accepting that that's how they are feeling right now and letting them do their thing. That said, it's your home too and if you really feel it's a personal violation you can't tolerate, I don't think there's anything wrong with standing your ground and putting it back. I just don't know if that's the most "productive" option.

[Olya]

Honestly, I'm not sure if it is working.

The weekend when he decided he wanted a divorce, he was nice and amiable and we parted on good terms. He even told me to text him when I get back to town where I'm going to school.

Since then, he has been a complete ogre. He avoids me. He doesn't talk to me.

Setting boundaries with him has been a mixed success. On one hand, he does what I ask. On the other hand, he just acts angrier towards me.


Yesterday, we went and got a rental car for his work trip. He insisted on getting a BMW instead of an economy car. Even after all the discounts, it still worked out to double of what the economy would have been. He was so happy. He was smiling, laughing, and he even forgot himself and called me "babe." A part of me felt really grossed out. The Army will not reimburse the rental costs. This is over $300 out of our pocket. And a BMW? Really?

By the time I got home from Yoga, he was once again an ogre. And... I just lost it. I was so bloody angry at him. I told him something like: "Look, I get it, I do. You have a mental illness. I am happy to be supportive. I am there for you. But you will NOT talk to me this way. I don't know if it's depression, midlife crisis, or both. But you know what? My mother has this issues and I did not put up with this $hit from her and I am not about to put up with it from you. Check your ugly attitude, paint a smile on your face, and act like a normal human being. I have been nothing but cordial, kind, and understanding. If you want to talk to someone the way you talk to me, try your friends who don't care enough about you to actually spend time with you. When you talk to me, you will talk the way you do to people who outrank you."

He tried protesting with comments like "I talk to everyone that way," "what did you read every brochure at the hospital or something," and some other such nonsense. I ignored all of it and kept on plowing through. He seemed very subdued after that. He asked that I wake him when I go to bed so that he can go sleep on the recliner downstairs. I did. He wasn't grumpy or anything. He wasn't sure what was going on at first, so, I asked "do you still want to go downstairs?" He said "yeah, it will be easier." I wished him a good trip and he told me to sleep tight.

I don't know whether he has to actively remind himself that he must behave like an ass or whether my tirade had an effect, but his attitude seems to have adjusted at least temporarily.

I won't be home next week. I have school-related stuff on the weekend. So, we'll be apart till late evening of the 18th. I doubt I'll hear from him by call or text - he has made a point not to contact me.


He wanted this. I haven't been clinging. Why the anger? Why the attitude? That's what I don't get.

[joejoe1]

And... I just lost it. I was so bloody angry at him. I told him something like: "Look, I get it, I do. You have a mental illness. I am happy to be supportive. I am there for you. But you will NOT talk to me this way. I don't know if it's depression, midlife crisis, or both. But you know what? My mother has this issues and I did not put up with this $hit from her and I am not about to put up with it from you. Check your ugly attitude, paint a smile on your face, and act like a normal human being. I have been nothing but cordial, kind, and understanding. If you want to talk to someone the way you talk to me, try your friends who don't care enough about you to actually spend time with you. When you talk to me, you will talk the way you do to people who outrank you."

[/color]That is strength if I have ever seen it. It takes a person. That has detached and has respect for themselves to make those comments. He definitely saw your strength and he saw you wouldnt be taken his sh!t no more. IMO that was a mini wake up call. Great job. Out of respect love is born.[color:#000099]

I don't know whether he has to actively remind himself that he must behave like an ass or whether my tirade had an effect, but his attitude seems to have adjusted at least temporarily.

[/color]He might have to remind himself to be mean but now be might be questioning his own behavior.

Keep up the hard work.

He would be a fool to walk away from a woman thats doing all these things for him. I'm in althe Army and one thing a soldier appreciate is a loyal, faithful spouse.[color:#3333FF]

[Olya]

That is strength if I have ever seen it. It takes a person. That has detached and has respect for themselves to make those comments. He definitely saw your strength and he saw you wouldnt be taken his sh!t no more. IMO that was a mini wake up call. Great job. Out of respect love is born.

I honestly don't think that he respects anyone anymore. His sister wants to come down and see him next weekend. She's scared that he'll get hurt on the deployment and she wants pictures with him. Now, she is an extremely silly woman and they have nothing in common. That said, this impulse of hers is coming from a good place, and he should honor it. Instead, his plan was to let her come and then tell her (from the safety of a base gate she can't get through) that he's too busy to see her. I told him that this is unacceptable. He promised to call his mom today and ask her to tell his sister not to come cause he's busy. I guarantee you that he will not do it.

So yeah... what respect? I honestly don't think he respects himself. But I need to respect myself, and if I don't check him, I will be reduced to a doormat.

He might have to remind himself to be mean but now be might be questioning his own behavior.

Keep up the hard work.

He would be a fool to walk away from a woman thats doing all these things for him. I'm in althe Army and one thing a soldier appreciate is a loyal, faithful spouse.

Thanks, I appreciate hearing this, I really do. I doubt that any of it got through. If it did, it won't last long. Maybe next time I'll remind him about who mopped up his vomit when he was sick, held him when he cried, and crisscrossed the country to make sure that he had his gear while he was away at training.

[44tries]

He wanted this. I haven't been clinging. Why the anger? Why the attitude? That's what I don't get.

If I had to guess, I would say the anger is not really toward you, but himself. Deep down he knows he is behaving like a child. He knows he is going back on a commitment, and he knows he is causing a lot of hurt and frustration. This is not going to make him feel good about himself. Some anger may be directed at you because, in his eyes, you represent all of the negative stuff he is going through. He chose to chalk all his problems up to being married to you, and push you away. Of course, this is unfair.

Good for you for standing up for yourself. It seems maybe you got the message across and he can at least reign in his attitude and be civil. I have been struggling with whether or not to let my W know my frustrations. She hasn't been nearly as overt and has treated me kindly, but partly out of guilt I think. But, as I wrote in my post, she is starting to display destructive behavior. Like your H, texting friends and making plans like they are back in the college/dorm days. I don't know what the best approach for this is, whether to let it runs its course and hold the fort down while she does what she wants, or tell her how I really feel about it. It's hard to separate my hurt and frustration over her choice to give up on the marriage, from my frustration over what I feel is categorically unacceptable behavior.

Ultimately, like I wrote to you before, I think only they can bring themselves back to rationality and choose what kind of people they really want to be. Very frustrating and difficult to let them fall to rock bottom, but I don't know what else we can do. We treat them with respect, treat ourselves with respect, and keep on living our lives.

I realized yesterday that I have some ambivalence about how I feel about divorce from a moral perspective. I don't want someone to live in misery, but I can't shake that feeling that they made a commitment they knew was meant to be lifelong. If someone has not done something major to break that agreement first, are there really ever grounds to choose to walk away and be doing the right thing? I wonder. I can say, with certainty, that no matter what needs of mine were left unsatisfied or how much I feel I hadn't gotten what I bargained for, I would never just quit on my wife. I devoted my loyalty and promised I would still be standing there no matter what. This is a very hard thing for me to let go of.

[Olya]

If I had to guess, I would say the anger is not really toward you, but himself. Deep down he knows he is behaving like a child. He knows he is going back on a commitment, and he knows he is causing a lot of hurt and frustration. This is not going to make him feel good about himself. Some anger may be directed at you because, in his eyes, you represent all of the negative stuff he is going through. He chose to chalk all his problems up to being married to you, and push you away. Of course, this is unfair.

If this is anything like last year, he has convinced himself that he has changed, that he is a different person now, that the person I loved is dead, and that I cannot really love the new him.

I do love him. I just don't love his depression.

My behavior is drastically different this year than what it was a year ago - I am no longer begging, pestering or trying to hold on.

His is fundamentally the same. We have skipped over some emotional and verbal cruelties (and I suspect this is because I have denied him this opportunity), but he's right back to sulking, isolating himself with his phone, and being abrasive and antisocial.

He sleeps all the time. He lost weight. He cannot be parted from his phone - be it texts, phone games, or youtube videos. It's like he cannot be alone with his thoughts. Pattern-wise, I'd say we've skipped over last spring and fast forwarded to how he was acting at the end of last summer.

She hasn't been nearly as overt and has treated me kindly, but partly out of guilt I think. But, as I wrote in my post, she is starting to display destructive behavior. Like your H, texting friends and making plans like they are back in the college/dorm days. I don't know what the best approach for this is, whether to let it runs its course and hold the fort down while she does what she wants, or tell her how I really feel about it. It's hard to separate my hurt and frustration over her choice to give up on the marriage, from my frustration over what I feel is categorically unacceptable behavior.

I think you need to let it run its course WHILE setting some boundaries. By the way, I just remembered something I started doing last summer! If you don't like your wife texting non-stop while you two are in the car, then make her drive!

I can say, with certainty, that no matter what needs of mine were left unsatisfied or how much I feel I hadn't gotten what I bargained for, I would never just quit on my wife. I devoted my loyalty and promised I would still be standing there no matter what. This is a very hard thing for me to let go of.

That's kind of how I'm feeling. Last year and a half to two years, I have felt really neglected and alone. I might have complained about it, but I never told him to hit the road.

[Olya]

So, a small life update.

He should be in Texas right now. He hasn't called or texted to let me know that he made it.

We had a snow storm yesterday. So, I spent my time indoors. I did 4 sets of 150 reps for abs. I lifted some weight. I caught up on late-night TV. I played some video games. All in all, I had a good time.

I'm leaving for school later today. I have no idea if he made any arrangements for our cats or if he expected me to take them. I will feed them before I go and leave them extra food. They'll only be alone Monday and he should be back Tuesday night.

Since I won't be home till the 18th, I strongly suspect that we will have zero contact until then. I have no idea how I feel about it.

I'll be keeping busy. I have a lot of end-of-semester catch-up to do, plus I need to exercise.

Right now, this just feels like a stupid game of who can ignore the other person the longest.

[Caz49]

"Right now, this just feels like a stupid game of who can ignore the other person the longest."

^^^^^^THAT^^^^^^ is exactly my life right there!
Unless I text my H, he acts like I don't exist. Tbh, it's been so long, I neither need or want to text him anymore. All the things I would've texted him about in the past, I strive to handle myself.

It feels like a 25 year marriage is dissolving into steam, just evaporating away....

Try and relax, get your work and exercise done and maybe enjoy the space if possible. Your H may miss you, he may find the time alone...lonely. Hopefully he'll allow himself some thinking time.