Hi, Job -- Does that mean there is no way to get my posting up? I did want advice about how to set boundaries based on the last letter I received. But I did figure out something-- I reminded him that I had said I could only speak about financial or marital matters with a third person present, and that if he sent me more letters, I would forward them to a third person. So far no more letters but he is RAGING and horrible to be around.
I showed his letters to a doctor friend who said that it looks like an episode of mania. I know that that is what MLC looks like in general and it all takes me back to the first year or two, when I kept thinking he was bipolar. Since we are in year 5, and he just rebombed me and wants to move out, I just wonder at times if in fact he just had a mental breakdown, is now bipolar, and will never come out of it. My faith tells me that it doesn't matter, God can do the impossible. I am just trying to figure out if dropping rope completely will apply if he really needs psychiatric care.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
I still have more questions than answers. I'm still learning about your sitch as it is 5 years old.
First, I'm glad to see such long posts of yours. I've been lurking for months and stopped posting about my sitch sometime in 2017 because I wanted to take a vacation from MLC land. I was always conscious of being short and to-the-point, but I ramble. I love all the detail you provide.
I'm sorry your H is so uncommunicative with your children. It's typical of MLC. I would categorize my W's attitude towards our sons as 10% joy, 10% rage and 80% indifference. That's just the path of MLC. Your H sounds no different.
I'm not sure what quite to make of your H's letters. I do agree with sjohns6 - who talks like that? However, you've implied that your H works in academia. If that's the case, they can speak and think differently sometimes, so I can understand the language. Maybe all his letters and formal and/or business correspondence sounds like that. However, I do notice the MLC pattern of jumping around topic. At least I see that with my own W, when I let her spew and I don't interrupt, she goes all over the place. There's a bit of that in his letters.
Also, I don't understand his bit about living in poverty and being humiliated and what not. Did you steer his career in the direction it's taken? If not, he's just projecting his failures on you. Remember, MLCers can't handle any pressure, and responsibility is definitely pressure to them.
5 years in MLC and still at home. Wow. I don't know how he's progressing at all. As you've read elsewhere I'm sure, MLCers can cycle between stages 2 - 5 repeatedly and sometimes all at once. They can do this over and over again for years. It sounds like the increased activity between your H and your children was a bit of tunnel peeking on his part, but indeed something sent him back into the tunnel. No one should take to mind-reading, but it's possible it was the financial fallout of finalizing the D that caused him to revert to monster again.
You asked about boundaries. Whatever you read here, it is always easier said than done. It requires strength, some bravery, even some acting. I support everyone's idea to treat the situation as a business deal gone sour. Disengage him when he monsters. Walk away. Remember - you are dealing with someone completely incapable of rational thought. MLCers wish to believe they are merely taking control of their lives for the first time ever, but what they are is utterly lost and drowning in a sea of overwhelming emotions that they couldn't explain to themselves if their life depended on it.
Keep it civil. Keep quiet. Maintain eye contact. Other LBSs will tell you to validate their feelings / complaints / criticisms. That's up to you. I can't do that when they are rewriting the M. My W has repeatedly made up stories to my face where I know she is imagining a type of marriage that didn't happen. I keep silent and let them ramble.
I also understand your avoidance. I am guilty of the same thing. I avoid my W as much as possible. Every time she walks into a room, I hope she's not looking to engage me in conversation, because she is only interested in fighting. That's all. Rage and blame and accusations and assumptions. Avoiding them feels like a cop out, but you know if you try to engage them, you are just wasting your time - they cannot hear anything you say.
Also, the more you remain silent and refuse to cooperate with their mania, the harder they try to upset you. Try as I have - be silent and maintain eye contact. Relax your facial muscles so you're not making a frown or furrowing your brow. I do this and my W just goes on and on. Bouncing from one topic to another. She rants and rants until she's blue in the face.
I'll re-read more of your sitch later. I just wanted to get this out of my head before I forgot. I was thinking about you and your H today. I'll post later to share other things I've recently read here.
Take time for yourself. You definitely need it.
M: 49, W: 45 T: 22 M: 15 S14, S11, S9 BD: Jan '16 W files: Oct '16 D final: June '18
I have deleted three postings this morning of yours because you only had your signature line posted and nothing else. I also checked my emails and sure enough you had a posting out there you wanted me to copy and paste to your thread. When I attempted to post your response to your thread, my entire posting was not accepted by the system. I then retyped my response concerning your three (3) postings this morning and my response was then posted. Evidently, your posting was not accepted/censored by the system and I do not know why it wasn't accepted.
Unfortunately, moderators are not always informed as to why postings are not approved, deleted, etc. Sorry!
This is happening all over the board.
It might be because of posting from a phone, I am not sure. I have e-mailed Virginia but not yet gotten an answer.
We do need to work on this issue but at this point it is unknown.
As for counseling, continue to go by yourself. He won't listen to what the counselor has to say and he's no where near being ready for this step.[/quote]
Can not agree with this any more !!!!!!!! I encourage my husband to have counseling, he did go there and the counselor and him were exchanging the thoughts of 'divorce' and she encourage husband to do whatever he likes to... later husband had physic affair with 20 year old girl... that was so extremely terrible
Brubeck, I kept wanting to write back to you but I got sucked into a period of intense misery as my husband spiraled into total mania and was sending me so many insane e-mails about divorce that I finally asked my brother (who is not really a big part of my life but lives in the same city) to ask him to give me space. This caused my H to have a brief awakening, apologies, started doing stuff around the house, saying he wanted to give himself the chance to grow as a man as a husband and father, etc. I was kind and open but not expectant; but of course I started feeling less terrified. And then within a week or so, back to running behavior. He did it to my son too, and so my son has totally spiraled again, has truancy issues but it got way worse, is full of rage at me all the time, totally addicted to video games, etc.
Anyway, I was going to answer a few of your points quickly before getting back to work, just because I am feeling so horribly lonely tonight. Have no idea where my H is and think maybe he has a new GF or something but who knows. He is so broken that whoever would want to be with him would have to be a horrifying person.
About his letters-- I am kind of in academia myself, and I can assure you, that is not typical. It's part of the crazy and is why he has been struggling to finish his dissertation for over ten years. And yes, it's all my fault that he can't finish. Sometimes I edit chapters for him, spend many days on it, but it's usually just an excuse for him to say I don't understand him. Yesterday he gave another rant about how it's my fault that he can't be a dad to his kids.
About living in poverty and being humiliated and what not-- we own a house with quite a lot of equity in it. He has not made any money in many years and has not helped me financially since MLC started, so I am solely responsible for all expenses for the kids, mortgage, etc., and often give him money when he is not working. We have MASSIVE debt from our last business and his tuition and some from his MLC and I make all the payments myself. He has his own debt from his MLC and is constantly freaking out and complaining about it without every worrying about what I am bearing. I don't say anything because then he just tells me to sell the house. But he blames me for putting him in this situation because he wants to sell our house so that he can have lots of money to spend. He thinks my struggles are my own fault for being stubborn, and he thinks my father helps me more than he does. (He helps a little.) We have rentals in our house and most of our huge mortgage is covered by the rentals, but I have to work like a dog on the rentals, all alone, and the whole place is getting pretty broken-down and shabby since he stopped helping. At the moment, his entire reason for hating me is that I won't "let" him take his half of the house. I've had to run everything all alone, deal with all our bills alone, sold our other failing business alone (and ended up in a continuing lawsuit all alone as my own lawyer when the buyers never paid me and I can't get out of the lease!) -- but his MLC mind has turned this into me controlling everything and keeping him down and emasculating him "for twenty years." We used to share everything, run our biz together,were never apart, were so in love and so into our kids and family. We even shared a cell phone.
About "processing" -- I have seen him come and go but he has never been loving or romantic with me, just more present. He had that affair for several years but she was also married and the few times that we spoke of it, he was almost bragging about how moral they were and what a good Catholic she was that she wouldn't leave her husband. You mention him reverting to monster again-- I am so terrified that I am starting this whole thing all over. Five years is a looooong time, and the effect on my son is beyond the pale now -- I have to get my son into a day treatment school, he is so messed up, and he's only 12. I have to spend 3-4 hours every morning trying to get him to go to school, and I usually fail.
Thanks for your tips about boundaries. I think I still get confused about what I am setting a limit on. The main thing he does that I can't bear is the talk about how he will leave me as soon as he has money, and the CONSTANT demands to "do something" about "our finances," and how he is not going to live this way much longer, meaning, not pushing a sale of our house. Because I am a very faithful Christian, I do get confused sometimes, especially because I wish I had been more submissive before he snapped, when I could trust him to take care of our family more. Now I know that if I let him make these kinds of decisions, we will lose everything--but sometimes I wonder if Christ wants me to give up this house and just rely on God and not worry about all the money that would be lost. I just don't think that that's going to help my H break out of this, and in fact I often thank God for keeping us this broke, as it did limit his behavior.
What you said about validating their feelings / complaints / criticisms-- you said, "I can't do that when they are rewriting the M." That's my problem exactly. I can go silent and I have apologized many times over for the part I played, but most of what he says is so unfair and wrong,I can't figure out how to validate it without believing the devil's lies. You said, " I keep silent and let them ramble," but I can't do that either --once in a while I say, "That is a lie from the devil, and I will always believe in our marriage and our love," even though I know that folks around here don't agree with that. Mostly I try to avoid any conversation with him because it turns to money and the past and how he could never return to our marriage.
I'm back in that stage of grief. I have had so many times when I thought we were on the path back.
And I still believe that God can fix everything. I just don't know how long I will have to wait, and I am getting tired and confused again.
I loved this paragraph of yours -- I also understand your avoidance. I am guilty of the same thing. I avoid my W as much as possible. Every time she walks into a room, I hope she's not looking to engage me in conversation, because she is only interested in fighting. That's all. Rage and blame and accusations and assumptions. Avoiding them feels like a cop out, but you know if you try to engage them, you are just wasting your time - they cannot hear anything you say.
What you said about being silent and maintaining eye contact -- gosh, I never do that. I look down and I feel like I am hanging on a cross. He gets very angry if I don't answer or if I leave the room, but I have gone back to doing that. When I return to the room--e.g.,when we are making our separate dinners and sort of sitting down as a dysfunctional family, he will be vicious. The other night he said when I came back, "Go ask your f-ing church friends about how you silence me!" and more on that front though my daughter was there. And the whole thing began because I didn't remember to heat his squash for the dinner I had bought and cooked for all of us. I engaged him though I stayed calm, and got things like, "YOUR HUSBAND DOESN'T LIKE SLIPSHOD!"
I'm so sad these days that after, I thought, well, at least he called himself my husband.
I am leaving out of all this my intense faith practice, but that's the only way I can keep doing this. I am sure God has a plan and I am sure he hates divorce, so I keep walking. I have built my own life, and I love many aspects of it (except the finanical struggle) but it's hard to get any real pleasure out of it when I have to live in the loony bin. And the situation with my son is killing me.
Thanks, Brubeck, if you ever read this thread again! It was good to "talk" tonight, I am so lonely. I am on deadlines for four of my jobs but keep not being able to concentrate so it was good to get all this blabber out. Maybe it will help someone to see me still standing and still having faith that no matter what my husband does, I will keep walking in the light and standing on the word of God. I've been so close to God because of it, I talk to Him all day and he always provides something to lift me when I am sinking. It's hard to bear so much hate but I figure God bore hatred for us, he always forgives and he always welcomes us back when we want to come back. It's just hard to know how to respond with love to the crazy twists and turns of the MLC prodigal son, because sometimes the most loving thing when someone is like that is not what it would be if they weren't.
I believe I will see the bounty of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord with courage. Be stouthearted, and wait for the Lord.
I'm so sorry you're going through this, Gerda. God bless you for putting up with so much abuse, but I have to wonder how much you can take and for how much longer? You're definitely more patient than me. Big hugs to you.
J
Me: 43 She: 43 Married 14 Together 20 D7 S6 Separation bomb Dec 2017 Reconciled 3 weeks later Jan 2018 Second separation bomb April 2018
