What do you think will happen with you and your wife after you divorce?
I really have no clue. We are 100% amicable and at minimum I hope that it continues as we work together for the next 11 years raising our children.
I don't think about a future with us being together but I am not quite sure she is done yet either. She just called me 5 min ago to tell me what her condo appraised for.
Just remember you can only control yourself....you can't force your H to return and you would only want him to return because he loves you and wants to be with you not because your some consolation prize and his first option didn't work out.
Benito's is a great example, he was a model DB'er even though he had to fight his instincts to do it and in the end it paid off. His earlier threads would have been a great read for new people because he went through all the same stuff most here go through, the same doubts and worries and fears. Unfortunately he became concerned his W would see the threads and had them deleted.
Because so many people complain that there are no success stories, I started trying to bookmark them. I just started this a couple of months ago so don't have many yet, but they are all very similar in that these people ALL thought at some point that their sitches were hopeless and would never be saved, yet they all eventually reconned.
In addition to these I've read quite a few posts where someone will come back here after years and say they reconned back then but never posted about it, but they are having trouble again so coming back for help. Read that again- WHEN THEY RECONNED THEY STOPPED POSTING COLD TURKEY. They never thanked anyone, they never said "hey just wanted to let you guys know it worked out", nothing. They just dropped off the forums. Why? Who knows, maybe they didn't want to revisit bad memories, maybe they felt like their problems were over so they didn't need to come here again, I don't know. The point is we hardly ever hear the success stories because the people don't share them.
Maika, thanks for sharing Benito's thread. I look forward to reading it. I will also respond more to your thread ASAP. I do wish to know what others define as reconciliation. I've been thinking it's finding peace with the other person, such as forgiveness and being able to talk and be friends again. If reconciliation is defined as staying married or getting re-married then that's something different. I don't even know what I want anymore. I'm exhausted. I'm glad at the moment that at least for now, there is some peace. I hope to end up a better person. There are some things that have held me back like facing a health crisis and buying into certain schools of thought that are different than what many here believe, but I'm trying to persevere. I have some exciting job prospects which should help and my health is getting better. I was 93 pounds in January and now I'm 100 which is a big improvement. I wish to be more like you. I'll try not to make excuses for myself. I'm trying to re-gain confidence and be a good role model for my daughter. I want to re-read your thread and will try to adopt your way of thinking!
I've followed your thread Nicole, and I know you've been to hell and back. I know this is so hard and I totally feel you when there are other schools of thought that are different than here and you want to reach out and grab them hoping it's true. I feel like you've not really had a solid chance to stabilize yourself because of your health issues and employment changes. Your life did turn upside down from where you were in your career and that's a massive thing to deal with. So, give yourself a break and be compassionate to yourself.
You just said it yourself - you're exhausted. Don't try and tackle the whole world right now. Put all your energies right now into improving your health and all those exciting job prospects. Just get through that and your move and then see what the next steps are.
My problem was that I was trying to do too many things at the same time and it was destroying me. IC told me to chill out and start with one thing and then accomplish that and move on to the next. Slowly phase things in. I know it sounds logical and intuitive, but it was hard for me to do with the way my mind worked at that point. But, I made a mental shift and put 100% of my energy into one thing and then the next. And it worked!!
So, just do that and you will emerge more grounded and stronger and even more present for your daughter. My relationship with my kids has improved a thousand fold and it was because I worked on myself and put everything into it. Now my outlook and personality has changed and my responses to them come naturally. But, it took time and training and lot of self-reflection.
Give yourself time, space, love, and patience. I am looking forward to hearing about your move, your new job, and the wonderful life you will have for you and your daughter - something that you will build over the next few years, but the seeds of that life are starting soon.
....that I'm changing and he's reacting to how I've become different. I'm happy though. I don't really care at the moment about the status of our relationship. I don't want to ask my husband what he's thinking. I'm just glad that it's peaceful right now and I hope I can stay strong and make it through the move and be truly independent. I'm happier right now with the unknown than the known, because I like to think that there are multiple possible positive outcomes such as reconciling in the future, finding a new husband after divorce, or just staying married but separated without a clear path for the time being. It's hard to describe because I go through so many emotions and thought processes every day because at times I remember all the fun and laughter and happiness my husband and I had together and at other times I remember all the bad things he's done. But things are better at the moment now that I'm moving. We'll see what happens.
I just want to let you know it's nice to hear you say that. ^^^
It's been rough for you, but you seem like you're in a much better place emotionally. I think you have a wonderful life waiting for you in your new city.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Joseph9, it's good to hear it's amicable. I hope there is still a chance for you to reconcile later for your children's sake and since you and your wife are getting along better now.
Anotherstander, thanks so much for sharing those other threads. That's great. I will study them closely as often as I have time because it would be helpful to compare what goes into a reconciliation and what doesn't. Not that reconciliation is a real option for me, but to better see the real life application of how DB can lead to it. I did a phone session with a Christian counselor, and my current counselor is very Christian-focused, and both recommended I keep feeding the marriage, trying to connect with my husband, have hope and confidence to fix the marriage, and trust that God with soften my husband's heart. This is a different school of thought and the Christian counselor on the phone kept saying "You can do this! You can fix your marriage! No other approach will work because it won't be based on love like this approach. Don't worry about an affair. It will end. You can have the marriage you want, etc.." The phone counselor gave me a long list of things to do and said I'd start to see results before too long. This was in January but I didn't do most of those things because I'm stuck between that and the DB approach and of course not really knowing if trying to save the marriage is wise considering my husband is now a serial-cheater.
Maika, thanks for your support. I'll try to do as you suggest and focus mainly on moving and then finding the right job. I do have a lot of social activities already planned in the new city which I'll probably still do with my daughter. Sometimes it's too easy to make excuses for why certain things won't work due to my daughter but I'm finding that being honest with people about being a single mom is ok. One of my friends who may offer me a job says she'd be ok with me taking my daughter overseas if I need to travel and can't leave her with anyone here.
Jim, thanks so much. Yes I feel like I've been sucked into a black hole. I can't even grasp what's happened sometimes, but I'm grateful at the moment that I didn't have to endure the immediate divorce my husband threatened because I was so weak in January that I honestly don't know if I could have made it. Now that I'm moving and the divorce is at least on hold I feel like I can at least breath. I do have a great life waiting in the new city (my old city). It's not what I want. I want to live here with my husband in our beautiful home surrounded by beautiful nature without all the stress of living in a crowded urban area, but I don't have that option. I will try to become a city person again. I at least loved my career and will be happy to work again although I have to try hard to make sure my daughter is the priority in everything.
This afternoon my husband came over. We spent over an hour discussing finances related to the move. It actually went well. It's the first time since last summer we were able to discuss something constructively without me ending up in tears or my husband being frustrated and walking away. We agreed on everything and both felt good at the end. The only bad part was my husband started making up some lame excuse about how he still doesn't have the car he wants because he's sending us so much money. I couldn't handle that comment so I reminded him this is his choice and if we had stayed together our finances would be better. He said "that's not an option." So clearly he wants to stay separated. He didn't mentioned divorce today though. This is coming from the same man who said "Even if I lose my job, lose the house, have to back to my country, and someone gouges out my insides I will divorce you" just weeks ago.
I think what happened is my husband was too lazy or busy to start the divorce process. Then some time passed, perhaps the euphoria from his girlfriend wore off a little, and my husband realized he doesn't *need* an immediate divorce so he'll just let things slide for a while. Now we're leaving and he probably figures he'll already have his freedom here alone in this city so he'll try that out for a while and see how that goes. This is my guess.
I'm not saying I'm hoping my husband will want to reconcile because logistically that's going to be difficult and my daughter and I's lives have already been destroyed so it's too late for any easy fix. I'm just grateful that I have the opportunity to recover a little, regain some strength, and stabilize hopefully before divorce is necessary or the topic is raised again.
There's always that small hope that my husband will realize all his mistakes and commit to long-term professional treatment and work hard for an extended period of time to fix everything, in which case I would still consider it because I loved him all these years and we have a child together, but that small hope isn't really on my mind currently.
I just hope everything goes smoothly in the next few weeks and then maybe I'll be better prepared for whatever happens.
I'm sorry I've not been here for you. But I have been thinking of you.
You sound so strong! I'm so pleased you've decided to move and make your and your daughters life a priority. It's taken the focus off H and placed it where it needs and should be right now. And it's payed off. No doubt theres still sadness and doubt but you're moving in the right direction.
There'll always be time in the future to move back to a more rural life, for now you need your days filled with work, your daughter and the relief of knowing you can provide for yourself. You should feel so proud of yourself.
Good luck, I'm excited for you.
Me 50 H 48 S 23 S 21 D 19 Together 31 years Married 25 years Separated April 2009 Reconciled 2010 Separated September 2017
I think it's awesome how you reminded him that he didn't have the car he wanted because of HIS choices. I'm just worried that as soon as you move, with no actual divorce in progress, and no legally binding alimony/CS required, he's going to find it inconvenient to continue sending you money.
I think my W is kind of the same way, about being too lazy to finish the divorce process. This whole process was devastating to me, and the idea of pushing the D was, at the time, unthinkable. The good news, that I think you will find relatable, is that now, with distance and time, I am stronger, no longer want this hanging over me, and I am the one pushing it forward.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
The earlier discussion in this thread about "success" (I know Nicole you were wanting success in R) related to our sitchs really got me thinking.
The movie "War of the Roses" came to mind. Success if D or R is if everyone comes out of it unharmed and healthy. While "War of the Roses" is an extreme fictional tale, it is cautionary in that those that do not take care of themselves can let things devolve to a level where things can escalate and people can get hurt.
Let me tell you the true story of Larry and Liza (names changed to protect the innocent. And the guilty).
These were dear friends of my W's and mine. We loved them and were named the guardians of their kids in case of untimely death to both of them. Liza and my W shared a special bond and considered each other the sister they never had. Larry was one of the sweetest men you'd ever meet, with an unbelievable tenor voice. He is the best singer I've ever personally known. He sang in a couple of quartet gospel groups.
Liza was raised in the same church as me. My wife converted when we were dating, and Liza was kind of hesitant because of her upbringing. She now belonged to Larry's denomination, but they were rarely there because Larry was always traveling with the gospel quartet.
We got together with these friends as often as we could. We watched their family grow, they watched ours grow. They were amazing friends, and we reciprocated. Though we lived an hour a way we both made special efforts to get together at least once a month, sometimes more.
Eventually Liza started to grow weary of the teachings of the denomination and her and Larry began studying with our minister. We'd watch the kids for them while they studied. Eventually Larry was converted and Liza and he began attending a congregation in their area. Larry gave up the gospel quartet singing as it increasingly took him away from worshipping on Sundays with his family.
Eventually Larry got involved with several guys from church (a preacher, elder and deacon!) to form a covers rock band. Larry's voice was incredibly similar to Steve Perry's from Journey, and their Journey covers were so unbelievable.
About the summer of 2005 things started to change. They weren't in contact with us as often. They were making plans with us as often. At the time we didn't think much about it as people get busy and time can go by.
At new years 2005 we were invited to their house with friends from church for a new years party. Liza seemed to be a bit distant to my wife and I. It was subtle so I kind of blew it off at the time. Chalking it up to the mix of people that were at the party. A couple days later I sent her, with my wife CC'd, an email saying how much we enjoyed the party and getting together with Christian friends where we didn't have to worry about the kind of activities that would go on at the party.
We never received a response. Which was strange. Again we didn't think much about it.
Larry's cover band were asked to be an opening act for a local Kansas concert and Larry wanted my W and I there! He called me that summer to set it up and get us tickets. (My W had to work the day of the concert so I attended alone.) It was kind of odd that Liza didn't handle this as she was usually the one to do so. (This was the summer of 2006).
I went and Larry rocked it. One thing you have to know about Larry was that he was a lifelong Type 1 Diabetic. Having grown up in a religious family his lifestyle had fallen away from that in his younger years, and his partying caused his diabetes to eventually cause him to go legally blind. Though he could see he couldn't see well enough to work (disabled) or drive. He was in a boot from an ankle break (just stepping down off a ladder broke his ankle) during the concert, but it was one of his really good days and his voice was incredible.
He mentioned at the concert that the band was going to play at one of the member's house on Labor Day, and he wanted us to come. I told him to call me with the details.
In August Larry called me to give me the details of the Labor Day party the band was playing at. I asked him how things were going. He said: "Things are going great with the band. Not so much with Liza and I." This was shocking news. He told me she had said she didn't want to be married anymore and that she wanted him to get an apartment near her and the kids.
I was devastated as I hung up the phone and told my W about it. She was perplexed. The next day she called Larry and told him that there had to be someone else, that this just wasn't Liza. Not someone must have been influencing her. Liza was such a strong Christian that she didn't even want her kids watching Chitty Chitty Bang Bang at our house because she was afraid it glamorized witchcraft! (I didn't agree with her on that but it was her kids.)
Larry began to investigate. He found emails between her and a male coworker. There were hints at "business" trips she had told Larry she was going on but they were trips with this coworker, non-work related. Larry was devastated when he called to tell me his findings.
He and his brother hired a PI, and that is when the evidence began to mount. She was rendezvousing with this guy often, mostly during work hours. By time Labor Day rolled around Larry was ready to confront her. He was being advised not to, to let the noose tighten more around her neck. He talked to my W and I for a longtime at the Labor Day party, which Liza wasn't even present at. A woman that 2 years prior wouldn't have missed a chance to hang out with us, and she wasn't even at her husband's concert.
That night Larry confronted her. She admitted everything with this new guy, that they were in love and were going to leave their spouses to be together. Larry's marriage effectively ended that night.
The stress of everything took a big toll on Larry. By time Labor Day rolled around his kidneys were starting to fail. By the end of 2006 he was on weekly dialysis. His ankle never would heal properly. And he was starting to have other effects from his diabetes.
As Liza moved forward with the D, her and the new guy bought a house and moved in together. She did end up getting fired as the company the worked for put 2 and 2 together related to the two of them missing so much work, and then getting married. By summer of 2007 the D was final, Larry was in his own apartment and Liza and the kids were with the new guy in their house.
Larry started a friendship with a woman at church and Liza was not pleased. Suddenly she had a "I don't want him but I don't want him to be with anyone else attitude". She began making Larry's life miserable related to the kids. Larry loved his kids, but remember, he couldn't drive. She refused to bring them over so he would have to go visit at her house, but he had to find a ride to do it. Luckily his friends from church were very good to him and though he had to bow to other people's schedule he would get to see his kids regularly.
Liza however continued to make things difficult. One of the kids was having a concert at school. Larry got a ride to it, but the stress of dealing with Liza got to him that night and he ended up collapsing at the concert and getting rushed to the hospital where he went in to ICU in a coma.
His female church friend was there as much as she could in the few days he was in ICU. Including the night Liza showed up. Liza ended up beating this poor women to a bloody pulp. When the hospital staff found her, they put the hospital on lockdown and security began looking for Liza. They never found her, she must have already left.
Larry never came out of the coma. (Typing that causes tears to well up in my eyes.) I honestly believe the stress of Liza's affair, leaving him, the D and her behavior afterward are what killed Larry. We miss Larry very much to this very day. Just this morning I was singing a song his quartet used to sing and my W asked me to stop, it made her too sad.
Liza and my wife do not talk. After Larry's death my W wrote her a long letter confronting her on several things she did. The theme of the letter was "this isn't you Liza! This isn't the Liza I knew and loved." She never got a response. That year at Christmas the Christmas card we sent her came back "Return to Sender". We haven't spoken to Liza since New Years 2006.
The point of this long diatribe is that this stuff has a real capacity to end lives. War of the Roses highlighted that in a comical, satirical way. But you don't have to look to far to see where this stuff can have serious health effects, and can cause one with compromised health to die. Larry lived about a year after his discovery of Liza infidelity. And while the A didn't kill him, Liza's spitefulness (probably rooted in her own guilt), I believe, did.
So success to me in this stuff is seeing everyone come out the other side, no matter the outcome, healthy. Both mentally and physically.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Jim, if my husband stops sending money I will have to file for divorce. There are also temporary support orders that can be requested as I understand. I'll soon be working though, and I can involve my husband's family if it reaches the point where he stops supporting my daughter and I. My closest two friends have offered financial support if needed. Therefore I believe I could survive in the short-term. I don't believe my husband will stop sending money though. He's done some bad things but I don't think he'll drop us that way. He may try to negotiate the amount we need each month but that's fine for the time being.
Steve85, I read the story and that is so sad. It's hard to believe that happened in real life to your own friends. It's a tragedy. How can Liza go from a good church-going lady to living a life of selfishness and sin? It's so hard to trust anyone in this world when this happens.
I've had this same fear about the health consequences. I was diagnosed with erosive gastritis two months after my husband left (the lining of my stomach was inflamed and eroded). My husband has said many times he gets chest pain when he talks to me. The lack of sleep, rapid weight loss, emotional turmoil...all those things take their toll. When it happens for years and years I can see how people develop chronic conditions. I was, and am probably still, at risk of ulcers that bleed and this can be fatal. I've also had a heart arrhythmia that is triggered by stress. I'm still debating whether to take SSRI's.
Yes I agree with your definition of reconciliation.
If you don't mind, since you talk about being Christian and going to Church, can you please read my earlier thread and comment on what the Christian counselor told me? How did you choose DB when you probably have access to explicitly Christian marriage resources?
Jim, if my husband stops sending money I will have to file for divorce. There are also temporary support orders that can be requested as I understand. I'll soon be working though, and I can involve my husband's family if it reaches the point where he stops supporting my daughter and I. My closest two friends have offered financial support if needed. Therefore I believe I could survive in the short-term. I don't believe my husband will stop sending money though. He's done some bad things but I don't think he'll drop us that way. He may try to negotiate the amount we need each month but that's fine for the time being.
Steve85, I read the story and that is so sad. It's hard to believe that happened in real life to your own friends. It's a tragedy. How can Liza go from a good church-going lady to living a life of selfishness and sin? It's so hard to trust anyone in this world when this happens.
I've had this same fear about the health consequences. I was diagnosed with erosive gastritis two months after my husband left (the lining of my stomach was inflamed and eroded). My husband has said many times he gets chest pain when he talks to me. The lack of sleep, rapid weight loss, emotional turmoil...all those things take their toll. When it happens for years and years I can see how people develop chronic conditions. I was, and am probably still, at risk of ulcers that bleed and this can be fatal. I've also had a heart arrhythmia that is triggered by stress. I'm still debating whether to take SSRI's.
Yes I agree with your definition of reconciliation.
If you don't mind, since you talk about being Christian and going to Church, can you please read my earlier thread and comment on what the Christian counselor told me? How did you choose DB when you probably have access to explicitly Christian marriage resources?
I tried to find where you mentioned the Christian counselor but had no luck. Can you repeat what it is the counselor said?
As far as my sitch and Christian marriage resources, our MC is a Christian based MC. But please remember, my wife was in full rebellion. She was even rebelling against her faith. She had started to withdraw and grow distant with our church friends.
Also, no one at church knows about our sitch. In fact, no one that knows us knows. Very early on in my reading I found information that said it was best not to tell people about our problems. SO I adhered to that.
One of the reasons given was because it makes it that much harder for the WAS/WS to come back. It is hard enough when they feel like they have to overcome things with you, but throw in strained relationships with relatives and friends and it could be too much to overcome.
That was a big reason I didn't go to anyone at church with the sitch. If she quit going to church I felt our chances at R were slimmer. I know her, and having to face people at church that knew what she had done and knew our sitch would have made her not want to go, and never want to come back. We are very involved in our congregation, and we are both highly respected. For her to lose that could have had devastating consequences for any chance of R.
However, even then I don't see DBing as being contrary to Christianity. AS/WS aren't really adhering to Biblical teachings on marriage. So trying to apply Biblical teachings to WAS/WSs is probably not going to work in the vast majority of cases. As I relayed in my current thread, I used a combination of many techniques to get us to where we are today, DB being part of that equation.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
