No affair, no feelings...is there hope?

[44tries]

That's a good question; maybe you should ask her why she needs the new phone. Is it possible that her current phone doesn't work well with the latest private messaging apps?

Well, her phone has had a completely smashed screen for a few months now and is frankly a piece of crap. She has been talking about getting a new one for a while, but ends up saying "no it's fine I don't NEED it, my phone still does basic functions, and we don't need to spend the money etc". Part of her insistence on avoiding her own needs. So it's not surprising that if she is in an effort to do things for herself, one of the first things would be to get a new phone.

I'm not sure if you are implying she might be trying to message people secretly? I am not concerned about this at all. I know exactly who she messages and when because she refuses to turn off any of her phone noises including the typing sound (very annoying lol). I'm not worried about her having any kind of EA while we are still married, even if she has declared separation. It's simply not her character. That said, my own mother is the last person I thought would ever have an A and she recently did, so I certainly know that anything is possible.

[44tries]

In my life, I am arranging for car rentals. I contact customer support to set up service for exercise equipment. I handle taxes, budgeting, and bills. He still comes to me about doing these things. What am I to do? Tell the boat to sink while I'm still on it?

This is my exact situation. I am the one that knows how to "do" everything and if I don't, I know how to figure out how. I take care of the budget and all the logistical stuff. If I didn't order the dogs' food on time every month, I seriously think she might open the bin one day and find it empty and be shocked. While I'm still on the boat, I can't just allow it to sink. I am the one that keeps things even keeled no matter what the latest "emotional wave" is. So, when does this role end? I guess when everything is actually separated and I have my own life.

[44tries]

Wake up. She's got a little somethin'-somethin' on the side and she needs a new phone so she can stay in touch and keep things private. And, all the while she's pulling 44 strings. He'll check that oil because he's so sweet (and she's got no respect). What could be better for Ms Thang?

I can hear her messaging right now...if her "something'-somethin'" is a very unattractive 19-yr old girl, who she outranks by at least 4 grades, and doesn't mind if I hear the ding of every message, then I guess she can have her.

[Olya]

So, when does this role end? I guess when everything is actually separated and I have my own life.

Yes. And that is something that you don't have to help her with. She can go make all the arrangements. Seek legal advice (without telling her), but do not help her get the ball rolling unless you actually want to. Wherever you are staying, it's your home too. And if you do want to leave, when is the best time for you to do it? Think about that. You're not her live-in boyfriend.

[44tries]

This is my plan. Like I said, she doesn't seem to have thought it through very well and I'm taking this as a positive from a "hope" standpoint. I have an idea of what I will do if she does start pushing and I leave and I am preparing in case, but hoping it doesn't get that far.

So, about the bed situation. She came in the room tonight to plug her stuff in and briefly checked her pillow for dog hair (daily struggles lol), I almost thought she was going to get in the bed. She kind of sulked to the closet and I could tell she wasn't too happy about sleeping in the spare room for a third night in a row. I fought the urge to try and accommodate, and she left mumbling she was fine. Two seconds later, she is back saying I don't have to but could I please wash one of her blankets tomorrow because she is cold in there. This is a perfect example of a situation that makes me squirm.

Since we talked today about how I supported the idea of sleeping separately, it feels disingenuine to also want her back in the bed. If she were to decide to come back, even if just for comfort reasons, is that still a win for me? Or only if it comes with an actual change of heart?

[44tries]

While I wait for DR to come in the mail (sadly might take a while, they really need to make an ebook version!), I am reading a couple books by Andrew G Marshall I could get Kindle versions for. "I Love You But I'm Not In Love With You: Seven Steps to Saving Your Relationship" and "My Wife Doesn't Love Me Anymore". A few of the reviews compared them to DR and said they followed the same methods, and overall the philosophy is the same--working on changing yourself, building for both outcomes basically. The problem is I'm surprised to find a lot of differences from the "rules" here.

For example, AGM seems to think talking to friends and family about your problems is a good thing. At one point, he even states the second best person to be a sounding board about making sense of your wife's feelings is your own mother! (First best being your sister). I have to say I disagree. I am not tempted to do this anyway, but it was a striking difference.

The one common theme is not saying things like "I love you" anymore or trying to reach out in that way. Not surprising because this seems like the most obvious. Overall, it is just a bit confusing because most of his strategies are for changing yourself, but the focus is still a lot about the relationship and the wife. This is despite the fact that he is clearly writing to husbands whose wives have little to no hope for the marriage. I don't know how to implement many of the techniques if I am not even initiating basic conversation with W. They revolve around being more giving, loving, thoughtful, etc which are great things but don't seem appropriate until the next stage, if I even make it there. I'm still struggling to know how to show that these positive changes are possible while I'm totally focused on myself. Hopefully, DR is more clear. Any other book suggestions are welcome.

On the bright side, he did provide one line which I absolutely love. He says make your new personal motto "I'll never make it easy for myself again." When faced with two choices, always go with the most challenging. This is great for me because I think it can apply both in a relationship context and my own personal life. Self-discipline is not my greatest strength and while I am ambitious and successful in what I do, a lot of things have come easy for me in life and as a result I can be quick to put on cruise control. Adopting this motto can go a long way to make me better live up to my full potential in all areas of life.

[Olya]

So, about the bed situation. She came in the room tonight to plug her stuff in and briefly checked her pillow for dog hair (daily struggles lol), I almost thought she was going to get in the bed. She kind of sulked to the closet and I could tell she wasn't too happy about sleeping in the spare room for a third night in a row. I fought the urge to try and accommodate, and she left mumbling she was fine. Two seconds later, she is back saying I don't have to but could I please wash one of her blankets tomorrow because she is cold in there. This is a perfect example of a situation that makes me squirm.

So, this looks like progress to me. At the very least, your wife is starting to realize that her decision will come with unpleasant consequences. Don't get me wrong, she may still go through the divorce. However, she is getting a better idea that it will not be a no-lose proposition for her.

From my own situation (since I'm on round 2 at this point), let me caution you that words are also actions. Talking is an act. We can choose to do it or not do it. Why do I tell you this? Because while saying "I'll help around the house more" means a lot less than getting off the couch and taking out the trash, saying "I've made a mistake and I want us to work on this marriage" means just as much if not more than attempting to hold hands or going back to sleeping in the same bed.

Do not push her away. Do not pressure her. Do not expect those words to come any time soon. However, by the same token, do not let your guard down and think that everything is fine until she is willing to say something along those lines to you. Unprompted. You cannot force this and you cannot demand this.

Since we talked today about how I supported the idea of sleeping separately, it feels disingenuine to also want her back in the bed. If she were to decide to come back, even if just for comfort reasons, is that still a win for me? Or only if it comes with an actual change of heart?

Don't look at this in terms of wins or losses. If she decides to come back, I don't see why you should act like you've noticed. Keep living your life. Keep being cheerful. Do not be mean to her. If she does something really nice, like make dinner, thank her. If all she does is end one of her tantrums, surely you do not have to command her for acting like a big girl.

Change of heart takes time. It will take you being a better person and it will take her realizing that grass isn't always greener on the other side. Both have to be genuine.

[44tries]

So, this looks like progress to me. At the very least, your wife is starting to realize that her decision will come with unpleasant consequences. Don't get me wrong, she may still go through the divorce. However, she is getting a better idea that it will not be a no-lose proposition for her.

I'm glad you think this is progress. The logic makes sense.

From my own situation (since I'm on round 2 at this point), let me caution you that words are also actions. Talking is an act.

Do not push her away. Do not pressure her. Do not expect those words to come any time soon. However, by the same token, do not let your guard down and think that everything is fine until she is willing to say something along those lines to you. Unprompted. You cannot force this and you cannot demand this.

Let me make sure I got your point. You're saying that if progress is made and she does things like come back to the bed, it isn't as important as when and if she decides to actually use her words and say she wants to try again? And until this happens, I need to remain vigilant in straddling the line between pushing/pressuring, not getting my hopes up, DBing, etc...is this what you meant?

Change of heart takes time. It will take you being a better person and it will take her realizing that grass isn't always greener on the other side. Both have to be genuine.

Perfectly stated. I can only control the me being a better person part and hope it makes the grass look nice and green on this side

[Olya]

Let me make sure I got your point. You're saying that if progress is made and she does things like come back to the bed, it isn't as important as when and if she decides to actually use her words and say she wants to try again? And until this happens, I need to remain vigilant in straddling the line between pushing/pressuring, not getting my hopes up, DBing, etc...is this what you meant?

Yes. Until and unless she says it, you don't know where you stand with her or what her terms are.

[44tries]

Today I went to the gym, grocery store, and took the dogs to the park. Did some research on getting a part-time English teaching job while I keep studying and plan on getting the applications rolling tomorrow.

W seems to be pretty concerned with my whereabouts/what I'm doing. Asks me in the morning if I'm coming to base, what time, then checks at that time if I'm there. I ran into her supervisor at the store and he says, "O hi, W was wondering if you were going to make it on base today." No idea why she would be talking to her supervisor about that. She messaged me asking am I at the gym, am I at the store, am I still there. "No, I'm getting gas." "Where? I don't see you." I guess she's stalking me now.