No affair, no feelings...is there hope?

[44tries]

You initially said this:
all my plans for career (I am currently in a masters program) have to be changed to get a job quickly and support myself and we would have to figure out how to pay for my stuff to be moved including my car etc

To me, this is something you need to figure out. Not her. She isnt responsible for your choices for your masters program and job and so on if you do wind up splitting. As Cadet says, Knowledge is Power. Sometimes just knowing what your options are can help you to not be so paralyzed. Taking ownership of your self can be a powerful step to help you break free of your fears of the 'what-ifs'.

So I will clarify this a bit, the job I left to move here overseas was a job directly related to my undergrad degree. My master's is in a much broader field and I am intending to leave the more specific field I was in before, not completely discounting a future possibility of combining the two. However, I have had to do significant background work for the master's since a lot of it was not a part of my undergrad. I am in the middle of it, so if I were to get a job immediately I'm not ready for the new field and would probably have to go back to my old field in the meantime. This is not totally disastrous, but it is a step back and wasn't the plan, and I am also a year removed now from working in that industry. The good news is that my master's program is remote (how I am able to do it while I'm overseas) and fairly flexible. I wouldn't have to completely drop out because of a location change or going back to work full time. But it will take much longer to complete and be a lot harder, since as I mentioned it is difficult material that I don't have undergrad foundation in so being able to dedicate full time hours to it has been pretty important. Long story short, I don't feel totally hopeless about it if I have to make it work. Certainly wouldn't be ideal like it has been, but I'm grateful as it could be much worse I guess. I will definitely fill in the details though and make sure I have a solid plan should I have to go this route.

One of the biggest takeaways that I got from DR was how important it is to recognize these areas of growth and then to also lay out a plan for actually achieving them. So what quantifiable actions can you take to progress towards this goal? How will you exhibit these traits?

Great points. It's easy to say I want to be less selfish, but thinking about quantifiable actions is a lot harder. I will work on laying out a plan with specific, tangible objectives.

I think youre on the right path. I get being committed to this relationship even in the face of the actions and words from your W. There is no shame in that. My concern is that if you let her get everything she wants for forever, then she has no reason to change the status quo. The bed is kind of a microcosm - here you are, devoted to your marriage 100%, but she wants to separatae and so you move to the guest room sometimes to....help her feel better? Im not sure exactly.

Im not saying that you should be a jerk to her or punish for her thoughts. And Im not saying you should go run out and look for other women or anything like that. Im saying that it isnt your job to cater to her every whim right now. She fired you from that job. You talk about being unselfish, but really, I kinda think now is the time where you SHOULD be a little bit selfish. She is giving you the gift of time to go out and become the person you want to become. Take advantage of it!

My other point above was that you act and come across like you are committed to the marriage 100%. I commend you for that. It's OK to give off that persona here. But think about what that says to W that you are OK with her doing whatever it is she wants and youll always be there as a safety net. How does that attitude lead to her valuing you or your relationship? Now is a good time to understand what qualities you value in a relationship and what you want out of a partner. What is your recourse if she cant meet those expectations?

Right, this makes sense and falls in line with putting myself first and working on detachment. I agree that I struggle with the safety net issue, because my instinct says that I want to be my wife's safety net and that's part of my job (I know, I'm fired now). But, I definitely think it costs me respect and the ability to be valued if I take it too far. I'm asking to be taken for granted. This is something that has been a recurring problem for me even in past relationships and I will do some deeper thinking on your questions.

I am definitely 100% committed, for better or for worse. I don't want to be unhealthily obsessed with it, especially if there is no hope, but I am here first and foremost because I want to do everything humanly possible to save the marriage. DB has given me the hope that it is possible, while also showing me the things I need to do at the same time to better and prepare myself if it doesn't work out, and really I guess even if it does.

Its not a big deal if she initiates it. But I would say that if you are home every night when she comes in waiting to see if she wants to do something with you....thats not good. GAL is so so so so so so important. I dont think anyone here can stress that enough to you. You need to start making your own plans - even if it's just to go to the coffee house down the street for a few hours to read or people watch. Get out of the house and start doing something. Anything. Go to a dance class, a game night, a language class, parasailing, scuba diving, doesnt really matter.

This is somewhat relieving that I am 'allowed' to spend at least some time with her if it isn't me pursuing. But it's a good point about not being too available and can help balance some of that feeling that if she can have me for company she is getting the best of both worlds. Tonight, I will make it a point not to be home when she gets here. I have signed up for Meetup and am looking into some events coming up in my area. I understand how important GAL is and am making it a priority.

Claimed she wanted to quit, I supported her, but somehow half the time we were arguing about it because she wouldn't fully commit and it became an issue of me controlling her. Now it seems like a clear act of independence/rebellion now that she is "free".

Who knows? It culd be that shes sad or scared or nervous or whatever else. I would say just note it for now.

As for your other comments above...can you see a difference between "Im not willing to be around a smoker" and "You need to stop smoking if you want to be in this relationship"? I feel like the first removes any need for an argument and is about your boundary while the second is controlling to her. Think about that distinction as you move forward in this process.

I see the distinction. Clearly illustrates the problem of me not wanting to set a boundary out of fear it will push her away, which means I'm not really standing my ground on what I really want and value, and instead becoming manipulative to try and fit her into my idealistic mold.


Thank you for the feedback on my texts with her. I will try to follow the 70% advice, which will be hard because she is more of a one-liner and I am a multi-pager, always been that way. But you are right, more words are usually not necessary and this is an unbalance I have felt with many people not just her. I love the quote you provided. However, it does confuse me a bit. For some reason, I was under the impression that I wasn't supposed to let her know that I was against/fighting the divorce. Obviously she already knows it isn't what I want, but I thought I was supposed to make it seem like I had accepted it because if she gets the notion that I am hanging on, it will strengthen her resolve. Am I off base here?

[44tries]

This will apply equally nicely to any scenario. Really.

Great suggestions, thank you for explaining so clearly. I can definitely be reasonable and have good manners , but it is a good note that I shouldn't mention anything about enjoying any time I spend with her. At first, I wasn't sure if I should be spending any time with her or if she was supposed to be feeling the effects of my absence. But it seems unavoidable living under the same roof and it sounds like small doses when she initiates and I respond appropriately are fine.

Ignore it.

This is exactly what I have done. Haven't said a word, even when she leaves the butts and even an empty box (?) all over the driveway. Thankfully, she would never smoke in the house. If it is some kind of test, I will not take the bait. Like Amoafwl said, it could just be her stress or response to everything but she knows darn well how I feel about it and I'm sure she's aware I notice.

You do, however, need to get a life. I know that it's hard where you're at. Believe me, I know. But you have options.

I know you are so right. It is hard because I am so used to spending a ton of time at home in the office working on my schoolwork. But, I am making a big effort to GAL. I actually just signed up for Meetup today! Great suggestion. I plan to do a lot more venturing out into the local community and if I drive to the nearest city, you are right there will definitely be plenty of English speakers. This seems to be where most of the meetup stuff is located as well. In my little rural town, I will practice my local language skills. I have considered getting a job teaching English since I got here and I think this is very doable. Now that I have more motivation to make the time, I will seriously consider it.

Omg, are you right about not talking to FRG about any problems. The military community can be infested with gossip and whispering, I choose my friends within it very wisely. I really appreciate your input, Olya!

[Olya]

I know you are so right. It is hard because I am so used to spending a ton of time at home in the office working on my schoolwork. But, I am making a big effort to GAL. I actually just signed up for Meetup today! Great suggestion. I plan to do a lot more venturing out into the local community and if I drive to the nearest city, you are right there will definitely be plenty of English speakers. This seems to be where most of the meetup stuff is located as well. In my little rural town, I will practice my local language skills. I have considered getting a job teaching English since I got here and I think this is very doable. Now that I have more motivation to make the time, I will seriously consider it.

I think you just needed someone to tell you to go and do it. You're an intelligent and motivated person. You have to have a lot of interests. The key is to begin to remember what those interests are. It will take time.

I recently joined a book club. First meeting is in 2 weeks. I'm really excited to get the book and I will be listening to it on long drives back and forth.

And that's another thing you can do - get into audio files, like audio books, podcasts, and web programs. It helps with the silence. You can just put your earbuds in, turn on your program, and do something you like doing: a long drive, cooking a meal for yourself, cleaning your personal space, etc. I find that it can be very hard to read for fun because (1) no time, and (2) I already stare at letters way too much as it is - my eyes are tired. Audio books have really helped me to reconnect with literature. Consider giving them a shot.

[44tries]

You have to have a lot of interests.

I do have a ton of interests actually! Used to be so many I didn't know which to pursue first. Now, many have fallen by the wayside. Maybe I will make a physical list for inspiration.

I recently joined a book club. First meeting is in 2 weeks. I'm really excited to get the book and I will be listening to it on long drives back and forth.

This sounds like a great idea. Good for you.

And that's another thing you can do - get into audio files, like audio books, podcasts, and web programs. It helps with the silence.

I spend enough time looking at characters on a screen all day as well. However, I do enjoy reading. Maybe I will try a mix of both. If podcasts/books count as GAL, then that's an easy start for me! I can implement them into my wind-down routine now that I am doing it alone and don't have the conversation.

[MoveFrwd]

I will definitely fill in the details though and make sure I have a solid plan should I have to go this route.

Again, I dont think you need to do anything right now as far as moving or applying or anything like that. I just think you need to know your options and have a couple of plans in your head in case the time comes.

Great points. It's easy to say I want to be less selfish, but thinking about quantifiable actions is a lot harder. I will work on laying out a plan with specific, tangible objectives.

Awesome. Consider what your goals are and then figure out what steps you need to take to get there. As MWD says, you dont make a 40 foot putt by aiming at the hole. You start by aiming at a place 3 feet away.

I am definitely 100% committed, for better or for worse. I don't want to be unhealthily obsessed with it, especially if there is no hope, but I am here first and foremost because I want to do everything humanly possible to save the marriage. DB has given me the hope that it is possible, while also showing me the things I need to do at the same time to better and prepare myself if it doesn't work out, and really I guess even if it does.

Remember, there is always hope. Just dont let hope paralyze you.
And also remember, just because she might be sad or mad or jealous or whatever based on your actions, that doesnt mean that they werent the ones to give you the best chance for R.

This is somewhat relieving that I am 'allowed' to spend at least some time with her if it isn't me pursuing. But it's a good point about not being too available and can help balance some of that feeling that if she can have me for company she is getting the best of both worlds. Tonight, I will make it a point not to be home when she gets here. I have signed up for Meetup and am looking into some events coming up in my area. I understand how important GAL is and am making it a priority.

Good. And remember...you dont need to TELL HER about your GAL or everything that you did/are doing. Its for you.

However, it does confuse me a bit. For some reason, I was under the impression that I wasn't supposed to let her know that I was against/fighting the divorce.

You did. The first words are "I dont think divorce is the solution to our problems." What more do you need to say than that? I feel like it is clearly stating what you believe while also showing that you are understanding and accepting her decisions as valid.

NOW....dont go running off to say that every 5 minutes to her. But thats the frame of mind you should have in your dealings. And if she asks you again what your thoughts are, thats what I would go with.

[44tries]

I got out of the house today and went for a long run and then walk. Was a beautiful day and I really enjoyed it. Good to clear my head.

W was home when I got back. She asked me if I could check if her car had oil. Then she sent me her MRI results for her wrist issue and asked if I could explain them. Now she is asking my opinion on which phone she should buy (not exactly sure about her decision to drop 1k on a phone when a few days ago she was talking about the potential costs of having to ship my stuff...).

All this makes me wonder what she would do without me...I'm saying this with a chuckle, but hey at least I'm smiling! I don't mind helping her with this stuff, but someone tell me if I shouldn't be. Or is it a good sign? Probably nothing, but it does reinforce some of my thinking that she has not really thought through the separation. No timetable, no real plan. Just sleeping in separate rooms.

She has mentioned things like I don't need to do her laundry and she will do the dishes (yet to happen). Normally, this is my role as the "stay at home" spouse. I still want to do some of the housework as if I'm living here and she is still supporting me financially I feel I should contribute. But I am doing less than before, especially with things directly related to her. I'm not going to pick up after her or make sure she has lunch etc. Hopefully this is a good strategy. It's hard to not feel the urge because it used to be one of my weak points that she felt let down by a lot. One of the ways I feel like I listened to her feelings and really stepped up, but apparently wasn't the root of the problem.

[doodler]

Now she is asking my opinion on which phone she should buy (not exactly sure about her decision to drop 1k on a phone when a few days ago she was talking about the potential costs of having to ship my stuff...).

44tries,

That's a good question; maybe you should ask her why she needs the new phone. Is it possible that her current phone doesn't work well with the latest private messaging apps?

[Olya]

I'm struggling with the same issue. How much is too much? This is the person paying the bills. Also, living together means that a financial hit will hurt both parties.

In my life, I am arranging for car rentals. I contact customer support to set up service for exercise equipment. I handle taxes, budgeting, and bills. He still comes to me about doing these things. What am I to do? Tell the boat to sink while I'm still on it?

Here's my suggestion. I doubt you'll like the consequences of her car running out of oil and messing up the motor - that is a major fight and money out of your joint pocket. Just change the oil and expect her to take it for granted.

As for the phone, tell her that she knows best and that, in your opinion, she should get something reliable. It's solid advice that lets her do whatever she wants. If later there is no money for you to go home early, then she will have learned a valuable lesson on budgeting.

But don't read too much into her requests. I doubt that right now they mean anything.

[doodler]

But don't read too much into her requests. I doubt that right now they mean anything.

I disagree just a little. I think her requests do mean something. I think they mean that she owns 44; he's her do-boy while she's booting his @ss out. She doesn't have any respect for 44. He's all smiley and nice and he does what she asks. Oh wait, he doesn't do her laundry or pick up after her.

Wake up. She's got a little somethin'-somethin' on the side and she needs a new phone so she can stay in touch and keep things private. And, all the while she's pulling 44 strings. He'll check that oil because he's so sweet (and she's got no respect). What could be better for Ms Thang?

44, you've been booted out and replaced, but you just don't "get it" yet. Stop messing around and do what you need to do to protect yourself and move on.

[44tries]

As MWD says, you dont make a 40 foot putt by aiming at the hole. You start by aiming at a place 3 feet away.

Love this.

You did. The first words are "I dont think divorce is the solution to our problems." What more do you need to say than that? I feel like it is clearly stating what you believe while also showing that you are understanding and accepting her decisions as valid.

I meant that I thought I was NOT supposed to say outright that I was against the divorce. She knows I don't think it's the solution. She feels that I have been the one dragging it on and I will never give up. She feels she has tried, and been unhappy, and I refuse to accept it (not her explicit words, but I know she becomes exasperated by my relentlessness). In her "talk", she expressed her feelings that she needs to do the selfish thing for once and hates to hurt me, but she thinks it's best to end it.

So I feel like my 180 (not sure if I'm using the term right), is to not fight back this time, at least with words (her sentiment is we talk and talk and get nowhere), and focus on the actions. My idea for this came from something I read about how if they think you have hope, they won't allow themselves to have it, and their resolves deepens...something along those lines. I'm totally open to it if you're saying you don't think this is the right approach, just clarifying because I think you might have misread my question.