...I supported my husband financially for six years until he got a paid residency program. I also lived alone, traveled around the world alone, and did everything alone. I was independent but I didn't find happiness in that. To me, the happiest time of my life was the first six years with my husband until we started having problems. Life is so much better with a partner.
I think you and I have a lot in common, because this is so very much me. <3
I also really struggle with seeing how many relationships here don't end up in recon. But -- if that isn't possible, I need to at least know I am doing what I need to for me. While Sandi's rules and detachment seem to be a big challenge right now and even counterintuitive? I also KNOW it is the right thing because it both gives H what he says he needs (space, time for reflection) AND it does it in a way that respects myself. To me, those are crucial.
As pointed out, I think the non-reconners tend to stick around. It appears that most that move on to R leave the board. So I think it isn't an accurate picture to say that there are so many here that don't end up in R.
It is kind of like the automotive forum I am on. People come in and see a couple of dozen people complaining of a specific problem and then say, "why doesn't -insert OEM- address this?!?" Though there are literally thousands of vehicles of that make and model that don't have the issue, because a couple of dozen squeaky wheels are there the issue is overblown. People that don't have the problem don't go to the forum and say "hey! Every thing is perfect! Just thought I'd sign up for an account to post that."
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Joseph9, I can see how reconciliation often takes place after divorce. It seems like that's the point when both partners finally face the reality of their decision. I imagine the momentum changes because suddenly the one who wanted a divorce so badly got it, and then what? Now that person is free to do what they wish. If they don't have the perfect life they envisioned, or if they start to see their mistakes, perhaps their heart softens and they start to miss their partner or at least want to feel more at peace by reconciling somehow. What do you think will happen with you and your wife after you divorce?
Steve85, I tried reading several articles about differentiation and they were helpful. I don't know if I fully grasp the concept yet because it was described in different ways, but I'll keep reading.
Jim, thanks for the good reminder. I don't know if I'm my husband's plan b or c or anything at all. I've distanced myself though, and I'm moving physically far away. I do wonder how that will change the dynamic with my husband once he sees me living independently, working, and moving on in the new city. Not because I'm doing those things to bring him back, but because I think our lives at that point will be fully separate so if we both find ourselves better off then there is little chance at that point we'll reconcile. On the other hand, if my husband realizes he made a huge mistake, then he'll have to make the effort to move up our way, get professional help, etc.. and I'll be in the stronger position. There are many thoughts that run through my mind about the future. I do think there's a difference between now and six months ago because six months ago it would have been easy to reconcile if we'd been separate for just a few weeks. Now it's been seven months and this is a more serious matter, especially since my husband wants a divorce, has a girlfriend, lives in our house alone, etc.. So it's past the point of being a plan b. Now I've lost everything and will have to re-build everything. My husband is gone. I'll write more below what I think might be happening.
25years, I'm wondering what's happening because in January my husband wanted an immediate divorce. Now he's not talking about divorce at all. So I don't know what he's thinking. He's about to feel loss though, because we're moving and he can't just pass by for ten minutes here-and-there to say hi to our daughter. Now if he wants to see her he'll have to book a flight, take off work, and travel. This is not convenient for him. I'm not moving to make it harder for my husband to see our daughter but because I need to work and I can't find a job here in this vacation town where we live. I chose our old city because that's where I can find a job and also because that's where I have the most friends. It's hard to capture what's actually happening vs. all the confusion I feel in my mind internally here in these short posts, but appeasing my husband isn't how I'd describe what's happening. It's more the anticipation of change and wondering what life will be like after we move. It's still hard to process sometimes how seven months ago we were preparing to move into our dream home and spend the next several decades here in this city and now I'm moving for the ninth time in five years, again, to a new place without my husband, becoming a single mom, making decisions totally alone. Maybe my husband was walking all over me these past six months because I was physically ill and couldn't do much for a while, I've been unemployed, and I was caring for our daughter full-time while he has all the freedom in the world. Now that will change though.
PsySara, it really helps to know someone understands and is going through the same thing at the same time. There are other marriage help programs out there with more documented success rates but I guess even a short-term success doesn't translated into long-term success as you discovered yourself. Marriage is just hard once one person wanders off-track. I hope we can both continue documenting our experiences here and learn from one another.
Mybest, you may see that PsySara is also married to a Muslim man so you can follow her thread too. It's nice to hear that you understand as well. I hope for a more positive outcome in your case!
Everyone, if I may, I just want to share another update as a follow-on to everything. My husband has been coming by every day. He's started to do 'normal' things again like eat snacks from the kitchen, talk about things happening in his life, makes eye contact, and laughs and makes jokes. Maybe we're just becoming friends as we face divorce. Or maybe my husband recognizes that I'm changing and he's reacting to how I've become different. I'm happy though. I don't really care at the moment about the status of our relationship. I don't want to ask my husband what he's thinking. I'm just glad that it's peaceful right now and I hope I can stay strong and make it through the move and be truly independent. I'm happier right now with the unknown than the known, because I like to think that there are multiple possible positive outcomes such as reconciling in the future, finding a new husband after divorce, or just staying married but separated without a clear path for the time being. It's hard to describe because I go through so many emotions and thought processes every day because at times I remember all the fun and laughter and happiness my husband and I had together and at other times I remember all the bad things he's done. But things are better at the moment now that I'm moving. We'll see what happens.
Steve85, I tried reading several articles about differentiation and they were helpful. I don't know if I fully grasp the concept yet because it was described in different ways, but I'll keep reading.
Nicole, one explanation that helped me was this:
In relationships we can be in one of 3 dependent states: dependent/codependent, independent, or interdependent.
Dependence/codependency is unhealthy because it causes us to gain our self-worth and emotional validation from our spouse. This means if they begin to pull away (either through differentiation (healthy) or independence (unhealthy) we panic and freak-out. And try to hold on with all of our might. This causes the spouse to pull even further away. If they were pulling away do to independence then we will push them away into leaving the R. If they were merely differentiating, our actions could push them into independence and beyond.
Independence is when we begin to gain our self-worth and emotional validation at the expense of the MR and spouse. Independence really has no place in a marriage since we agreed to give up independence when we married. Independence can take many forms: emotional and physical absenteeism, affairs, etc. The next step from independence is leaving the MR, IE D.
Interdependence is the healthy state of retaining your individualism, and therefore relying on yourself for emotional stability and validation, but also being fully engaged in a your MR. When both spouses have "differentiated" in this way, they can then be "interdependent". This is the state where 3 entities exist: both individual spouses plus the MR. None of them are independent, but neither are they unhealthily attached (IE give up themselves by being too emotionally dependent on their spouse).
Achieving interdependence requires differentiation! Becoming aware of one's individuality, self-validation and self emotional stability within the bounds of the MR.
The differentiated individual in a MR doesn't overreact to what their spouse says or does. But neither do they stonewall or shutout their spouse based on their spouse's behavior.
Think about how to react on BD. The dependent individual will panic, and beg, plead, and reason with their spouse's bomb. The independent individual won't care at all. The differentiated individual would calmly explain that they disagree with the spouse's proclamation but that they will be okay (note that doesn't mean happy or ecstatic!) regardless of what the spouse decides.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
If anyone wants to see a recon success story, go look up Benito's thread. His original threads had to be archived and moved, but the one that's kicking around still has awesome stuff about how he DB'd and what happened with his story.
Go search for Benito in my watch list and pull up his thread.
Let me add a word of caution here. Benito truly dropped the rope, worked on himself, and gave his W tons of space. And it resulted in recon. Will it last, I surely hope so. I hope Benito comes back and gives an update sometime.
But, J9 also DB'd like a champ and his W didn't waver in her wanting a D. Having followed both of their sitch's closely, and they were in my timeframe as well when I got here, I can tell you that both of them DB'd their hearts out and had different outcomes when it comes to their W's. Does this make J9's journey less impressive? Definitely not! J9 is as much of a success story as Benito.
So, even if you DB completely, you may not have the recon outcome you were hoping for in the time frame you're thinking. Maybe it will happen after D. Maybe it will happen before D.
But what is for sure true about both of them is that they are way better men than when they came here. And that growth will be appreciated by someone.
Don't have recon as the ultimate marker of success - you don't have control over it as you might think. DBing gives you the best chance at it. period.
If anyone wants to see a recon success story, go look up Benito's thread. His original threads had to be archived and moved, but the one that's kicking around still has awesome stuff about how he DB'd and what happened with his story.
Go search for Benito in my watch list and pull up his thread.
Let me add a word of caution here. Benito truly dropped the rope, worked on himself, and gave his W tons of space. And it resulted in recon. Will it last, I surely hope so. I hope Benito comes back and gives an update sometime.
But, J9 also DB'd like a champ and his W didn't waver in her wanting a D. Having followed both of their sitch's closely, and they were in my timeframe as well when I got here, I can tell you that both of them DB'd their hearts out and had different outcomes when it comes to their W's. Does this make J9's journey less impressive? Definitely not! J9 is as much of a success story as Benito.
So, even if you DB completely, you may not have the recon outcome you were hoping for in the time frame you're thinking. Maybe it will happen after D. Maybe it will happen before D.
But what is for sure true about both of them is that they are way better men than when they came here. And that growth will be appreciated by someone.
Don't have recon as the ultimate marker of success - you don't have control over it as you might think. DBing gives you the best chance at it. period.
Extremely well said.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Steve, thanks for offering that explanation. I can see how I became too dependent on my husband. For years we did everything together and rarely went more than an hour without talking. It felt like we were partners, best friends, and everything together. I have hundreds or maybe thousands of e-mails from my husband telling me I'm a perfect wife, how much he loves me, etc.. I was so happy with him and I think I gradually became dependent by default and because I thought that's what marriage is. Now I can see the advantages of interdependence since my husband is gone. I'll work towards grasping it more fully and aiming for it in my next relationship. I wish to think I could still have that level of closeness with another person in the future, but apparently it has to be more balanced.
Maika, thanks for sharing Benito's thread. I look forward to reading it. I will also respond more to your thread ASAP. I do wish to know what others define as reconciliation. I've been thinking it's finding peace with the other person, such as forgiveness and being able to talk and be friends again. If reconciliation is defined as staying married or getting re-married then that's something different. I don't even know what I want anymore. I'm exhausted. I'm glad at the moment that at least for now, there is some peace. I hope to end up a better person. There are some things that have held me back like facing a health crisis and buying into certain schools of thought that are different than what many here believe, but I'm trying to persevere. I have some exciting job prospects which should help and my health is getting better. I was 93 pounds in January and now I'm 100 which is a big improvement. I wish to be more like you. I'll try not to make excuses for myself. I'm trying to re-gain confidence and be a good role model for my daughter. I want to re-read your thread and will try to adopt your way of thinking!
I've also gained back 8 of the 10 lbs I had lost after BD. Nicole, that weight gain in and of itself shows personal growth! Think about how hard it was to eat and sleep at first. Gaining self-reliance means that you can once again sleep and eat. So please congratulate yourself in that regard.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
<3