Help evaluating LRT progress

[Olya]

Thank you so much for your feedback, everyone.

I just realized that I wasn't particularly clear with what has been bothering and confusing me about my husband's reactions.

So, last Sunday I told him that I was going to see a movie and asked him if he wanted me to get him a ticket (we previously had tickets to this film but had to return them because of his work). He seemed pretty happy about going and told me to go ahead and get him one. I did.

Fast forward to yesterday. First, he was very surprised by how I was dressed. I usually wear very nice business casual, it just happens to be when I'm not around him. He asked me where I was going all dressed up. I reminded him that I told him a week ago that I was going to go to the zoo. Since a week ago he indicated that he thought it sounded like a fun idea, I told him that he was free to come with me if he wanted to. He said that he might. When the time to go came around and I checked in with him, he told me that he was too busy and went in to work on his day off. I wished him a good time and went by myself. Before he left, he asked me what time the movie was. I told him and said that I'd pick him up after zoo. When I came home, he asked how the zoo was. I told him that I had a very good time but that it was very crowded so he was probably better off that he didn't go (he really dislikes large crowds). We chatted idly and he told me that he had a headache and did not want to go to the movie. I gave him some Advil, told him to feel better, cancelled his ticket and went by myself.

This morning he assumed that I was going to the gym with him. I said that I wasn't but asked him to take his own car since "I might go for a walk." (I did not want to be too specific about my plans for the day.) I said this with polite smile and wished him a good time. In response, he told me that I should probably take myself to the botanical gardens since I like them so much. This was not said kindly, nor was it meant to be kind. He and I used to go to botanical gardens all the time. In fact, he took me to a botanical garden on one of our first dates. We got married at that same botanical garden. Last couple of years, he has told me that he hates going to places like that. Part of it is because I take too many pictures when I'm there. Part of it, I'm sure is about control for him--he sees doing something that he doesn't truly feel like doing as a sign of weakness as opposed to as a way to reciprocate millions of things that are done for him. Either way, he has made it abundantly clear that botanical gardens are out of the question, and everything about his comment today was meant to be snide--there is no doubt about that.

So, my confusion is whether this is normal. He seems to want to be mean. He seems to want an angry or a hurt reaction out of me. Since our divorce talk last Saturday, I have been nothing but considerate, and polite. To the best of my knowledge, I have done nothing to bring about the turn away from awkward congeniality and toward whatever the heck it is that he is doing. Is this normal? Is this a normal reaction when the LBS tries to get some distance and has no problem doing things without WAS.

[RR17]

Olya, I'm telling you this as much as reminding myself. Over analyzing individual incidents is futile.

Remember that it is consistent change over time that will get noticed.

Listen I know you want to see a response quickly. We all get it.

Reexamine what Pursuing looks like.

Forget what H wants.

If H isn't interested in sex, something is going on. Obviously, I don't know what, but don't expect instant results. Stop expecting anything.

[Olya]

If H isn't interested in sex, something is going on. Obviously, I don't know what, but don't expect instant results. Stop expecting anything.

There is something going on. He has low testosterone. It's not something that I have made up by reading WebMD. I convinced him to go see a doctor last fall, and the blood tests showed what I had suspected from the start of 2017. My husband is not an old man - he is turning 30 at the end of next month. I sometimes have wondered if depression has caused it, but that would be my diagnosis, not the doctors, so it's not worth a whole lot.

He will not take medications to raise his testosterone levels because taking male hormones, even by prescription, would end his military career. He's also not doing a whole lot to help the situation by guzzling down gallons of energy drinks per week.



* * *

Update on my situation:

So, I went out yesterday and had a fabulous time.

I went to the local coffee shop to buy some joe for the road, and, I am neither kidding myself nor exaggerating to you, every man at that joint looked up and stared at me when I walked in, and kept staring until I left. I'm only 28, and on some level I have always been dimly-aware that some of my mother's good looks have rubbed off on me, but I am not used to this kind of frank attention: usually, I'm with someone else, and more often than not, that someone else is my husband. It felt good to see that I'm not some discarded object.

The hike was great. I waked up a mountain and back - 6.8 miles in total. The people I met were fun and we will be doing this again at the start of May. One of the folks I met is now my new Facebook friend. He and I are roughly the same age and he organizes events like this often. I got the impression that, if I want to, I can do something like this practically every weekend (April ends up being a hiatus month for most people in the group, but then it picks back up to several times a week).

Afterwards I took myself to dinner, posted a little on this board, bought a birthday present for my sister-in-law, and went to see a movie.

In total, I was gone from home for 15 hours or so.

When I got home, my husband was already in bed, but my return woke him up. He pretended he was still asleep.

Around 5 this morning, he started back up with poking and elbowing me... and I just got so fed up with it.

First, having my arm next to his elbow or my foot against his leg is not an attempt on my part to snuggle, cuddle, or have sex.

Second, I run very cold when I sleep. He runs hot. At least one of my extremities will always end up either next to him or right next to him, thawing on the portion of the sheets that he had been warming. I have zero control over that because I am asleep when I do it.

Third, he has used this a year ago as a way to reject me without really being prompted to. If I touched any part of his body, even by accident like I just described, he would yell at me to get off him, flail, and attempt to storm off to sleep on the recliner in the living room. Back then, I'd beg him to stop and get a grip on himself. I'd ask him to calm down and stay in bed. I'd try to give him a hug, stroke his hair, and tell him to stop. That, of course, would only make things worse.

This time around, we have not gotten to the point where he is that far gone, but we're getting there and I can tell that he wants - itches - for the opportunity to get there. Well, I am not doing that again and I am not living through that again. During the week, I sleep 5 hours a night - I don't need this nonsense. So, I sat up, put my hand on his shoulder, and had the following conversation with him using my best calm and gentle voice:

Me: "Boo-Bear, do you remember how last week you told me that you don't mind sleeping on the recliner downstairs?"
Him: "Yeah, I thought about that, but it seems too late right now. Why?"
Me: "Because I'm tired of you poking and prodding me half the night."
Him: "Well, if you weren't trying to snuggle with me half the night or sneak up on my side of the bed, this wouldn't be a problem!"
Me: "You know what, I think I would like you to go sleep downstairs right now."
Him: "What!? Why?"
Me: "Because I would like to get some sleep."
Him: "Fine"
Me: "Do you want your pillow."
Him: "No, I'll be fine. We need a second bed."

He went downstairs and made himself breakfast. I was too awake to sleep, but I laid around on his warm side of the bed and relaxed a little. I feel great about doing this. Yes, I want my husband back, but I did not undertake LRT to be his doormat. When we got back together after last year's events, I told him that he can never do what he did again. I intend to keep that promise.

Today, he did not offer me to go to the gym and was extremely grumpy in general (to be expected). He is also avoiding eye contact. He asked me to move my car so that he could take his, and when I offered him mine because I have no plans, he told me that he might not be back before I have to drive out. That's the closest he has come to commenting on the fact that I wasn't home all day yesterday.

I have no idea what this will lead to, but I feel a hell of a lot better about myself than I had a year ago.

[Olya]

Update:

So, he came home early yesterday - long before I took off for the week.

All he seems to do with his time off is sit on the armchair, watch B or C ranked movies, and obsessively text his friend from his earlier duty station. (They're meeting up today to hang out, but it is a rare event. In general, H doesn't really do anything: Work => Gym => Home, TV, and text -- that is his life.)

When I try to talk to him, he becomes irritated, snappy, and impatient. I am not trying to engage in idle chatter, but we live in the same household and some talks need to be had. He has a work trip to Texas coming up and he is taking my car because it is new and reliable whereas his is getting traded in as soon as he comes back from deployment. Since I will have to drive his car next week, I think that I am within my right to ask about its current state, especially because it's not looking as good as it did when I took it in for service two weeks ago. I did not nag. I was not mean. I discussed the car and asked that going forward he bring up these issues with me as soon as they arise so that I do not have to scramble to make last-minute service appointments.

This conversation was short and sweet. It did not warrant iciness, or sulking, or irritation, nor was it socially-acceptable acceptable to reply to a text in the middle of it.

I feel like I'm dealing with a teenager who is throwing a tantrum.

[Cadet]

I feel like I'm dealing with a teenager who is throwing a tantrum.

You probably are!

MLC is childhood issues, so yours is a teenager.

[44tries]

Wow! Your story is so relatable to mine. I am new here also and have yet to post my story (about to) but I also have a military spouse who a year ago wanted to end things, we got back to normal, and now right back to wanting out of the relationship. No affairs involved, just the ILYBNILWY frustration. Sorry I cannot offer much as I'm pretty much in your same boat, but know there are others who are feeling the same pain.

[Olya]

I feel like I'm dealing with a teenager who is throwing a tantrum.

You probably are!

MLC is childhood issues, so yours is a teenager.

He's not yet 30. I know that it can happen at any age, but this feels unreal. The 23-year-old whom I married 7 years ago was a far more emotionally-mature person.

My H is in a place where he does not accept the idea that he might be asked to do more or to do better. It doesn't matter how nicely or non-confrontationally this is put to him. He views any such request as rejection of him.

He has next to no relationship with his mother, who has been nothing but nice and supportive of us. She helped us move every time we moved. She helped us out financially. She has me staying with her during the week while I attend classes. His gratitude? Christmas of 2016, he threw a fit because I promised her that he'd empty a mop bucket for her. According to him, he felt disrespected and treated worse than a dog. This past summer, while he was still in the throws of his first hissy fit, he refused to come into her house and stayed in the car while I went in. He never calls. He'll have vacation in May, but he will not come visit her. The day that he and I sign our divorce papers may well be the last day she sees him or hears from him.

The relationships that seem to make him happiest are those which are most shallow. The great sum total of his current friendships can be defined as "people he texts stupid jokes to and occasionally goes to drink beers with." His friends are also consistently (1) younger than him, (2) single, (3) not as good looking as he is, and (4) not as educated or intelligent as he is. But they are in awe of him and have no real expectations of him. It's like he's trying to re-live the college days that he never got to have because he worked all though undergrad.

That lives me in a very precarious position.

As much as I want to read him the riot act, I cannot, and it will do no good.

At the same time, I can do no right. I know what his reaction will be if I try to talk to him and reconcile -- he will reject me in the most hurtful way he can think of. Acting like I don't see how badly he is behaving and continuing to live my own life also produces nothing but irritation from him.

And this is my problem with the implementation of the LRT. The three outcomes listed are (1) nothing, (2) tepid curiosity, or (3) a spouse that quickly attempts to reconcile. There is no option #4: a sulky juvenile. How do I gage whether what I'm doing is only driving him further away?

[Olya]

Wow! Your story is so relatable to mine. I am new here also and have yet to post my story (about to) but I also have a military spouse who a year ago wanted to end things, we got back to normal, and now right back to wanting out of the relationship. No affairs involved, just the ILYBNILWY frustration. Sorry I cannot offer much as I'm pretty much in your same boat, but know there are others who are feeling the same pain.

I'm sorry. I wish we didn't have to meet like this. Has he ever told you that he cannot be open enough with you because you will not always be there when he is alone and needing you and so it is easier for him if he does not need you at all? Mine has. About a year ago.

I sometimes think that military spouses end up doing so much and taking on such an outsized portion of everyday tasks, that we become semi-parental figures. It hurts when mommy lets you down. More and more, I suspect that I'm "mommy."

[44tries]

In my case, it's my wife but YES, I think needing anything, including me, is one of her greatest fears. Perhaps this is part of the personality of people drawn to the military. She is afraid to need or be vulnerable, and has specifically told me that she does not want to be in position of dependence because as you said, there are times she simply won't have me, or whatever she is dependent on.

We met right after she returned from an Afghanistan deployment and it took me a long time to really understand what it is like for military members to have such large segments of their lives where it's just them and the basics. They don't have to worry about all the complexities of life while they're in the desert. Do your job, eat, gym, and sleep pretty much. It can be a hard adjustment where they get whiplashed back into all the craziness of normal life. When they have a spouse, I think we do take on a lot of this everyday stuff for them and keep it running. In my case, I think she is inevitably somewhat dependent (not necessarily in an unhealthy way) and resents it.

[MoveFrwd]

At the same time, I can do no right.

Acting like I don't see how badly he is behaving and continuing to live my own life also produces nothing but irritation from him.

I wouldnt judge your actions based on his responses right now. YOU are the one that knows what is right, not him at this point.

And this is my problem with the implementation of the LRT. The three outcomes listed are (1) nothing, (2) tepid curiosity, or (3) a spouse that quickly attempts to reconcile. There is no option #4: a sulky juvenile. How do I gage whether what I'm doing is only driving him further away?

To me, this feels like nothing....for now.

Change is hard, and you are acting differently. My guess is that he doesnt know how to react and things like sulking and anger and coldness come easily for him. Id say keep doing what you are doing. No matter what, I think it is making you into a stronger person.