Feeling extremely lost and really need the advice of some of you intelligent, well journeyed people here. I have lurked around and found a lot of great stuff. Quick (okay probably not that quick) background: My wife and I have only been married for a little over a year and a half. We are in our mid-20s. Lived together for about 9 months before getting married. She is in the military and we are currently living overseas. I will be honest and say that us getting married was probably influenced by military logistics, but certainly not the sole reason; maybe just sooner than we would have, no way to know now. Anyway, we are great friends and neither of us has had any kind of affair or anything like that. But, even before we were married, my wife would express feelings of unsureness saying things like she doubted our connection or didn't know if she was happy. Vague things that were obviously concerning but I didn't really know what to do with them. She wasn't breaking up with me, but sometimes it almost seemed like she was trying to see if she could get me to do it.
About a year ago, shortly after we moved overseas, she acted very distant one day and finally went into a monologue about how she was sorry but she didn't think she had feelings for me anymore and she didn't want to hurt me but she felt done with the relationship. A few months removed from quitting my job and relocating everything I owned halfway around the world, I was a little rocked. Again, I knew there were flags or concerns but I thought she had sorted them out before making these huge decisions! So began my journey of trying to save my marriage. At first, very briefly, I did all those taboo things like begging and chasing, but as I usually go to research first to solve any problem I face, I quickly learned the errors of my ways and studied everything I could to know the best way to respond. I reflected on my flaws and what could make me better for myself and for her. I gave/still give her space and tried to loosen my grip and my tendency for borderline manipulation if something isn't going the way I like. I also recognize I am the cliche "poor listener" because I am rational and always jumping in with answers rather than emotional validation. I did my best to learn and fix, and I actually think I have made a lot progress. Since that day, up until yesterday, we have not had any major discussions about our relationship being doomed, which was probably the longest we've gone without a big "bump". We both are better people, our communication has improved a LOT, we've taken several trips together, and overall enjoyed each other more than ever. Or so I thought. A week ago, we were making decisions about where we wanted to try to live next and what our future plans looked like. We were excited and looking forward to working on our goals and dreams. Then, overnight (literally), she completely shut down and distanced herself, similar to a year ago. I thought, o no, and stepped up to make sure I was doing all the little things and doing my part flawlessly during this apparently stressful time (she is definitely the 'do the dishes is my love language' type so this is what I mean I ramped up on, I gave her a lot of space and tried not to panic).
I encouraged her to take a weekend trip she wanted to go on to see some friends that had recently left our area and have fun with them and she was excited to go. In the past year, I have really worked on dialing down my need to "control" and to allow for her big need for space. Nonetheless, she came back from the trip and after asking if there was anything I could do for her since she was clearly still in a bad place, she told me again yesterday that she had really tried but our connection just isn't there and she doesn't want to be in the relationship anymore. She said we both deserve happiness and it just doesn't seem in the cards for us. She said she feels suffocated (always her words and I have tried and tried to back off more and more, I don't know what else to do without feeling like I'm giving up). By her own admission, she has a tendency to do things for the wrong reasons, because she thinks they will make other people happy.
She does this with me, her family, even friends. She is selfless to a fault, because it then breeds resentment and sometimes I feel she neglects her own needs so much she doesn't even know what they are. I have told her repeatedly don't do things you don't want to do just because you think it's what I want. I really feel like this is a final blow. How do you know when it is time to throw in the towel? I am committed to my marriage and my wife, and I know that she HAS really tried, but we just aren't there yet and maybe never will be? I am never one to give up, but we are still young with lots of life ahead and with so many doubts, is there a time when it is just better to abort the mission and accept it is doomed?
I am devastated and hope this isnt the answer but I feel so alone and hopeless and honestly sort of a fool like why didn't I just leave at the first red flags. I know she feels tremendous guilt because if we split up and I have to move back home somehow, all my plans for career (I am currently in a masters program) have to be changed to get a job quickly and support myself and we would have to figure out how to pay for my stuff to be moved including my car etc. A huge mess that honestly works against me because I think it makes her feel even more trapped and resentful. She insists she is miserable and says she feels like she is living with a friend and we both deserve more. Our sex life is non-existent but she will still climb into bed and put her arms around me and things like that. I thought there was enough to build on. For Christmas she gave me one of those star maps from the day we got married with a heartfelt inscription. She says she wanted to be good to me and not hurt me and that's why does those things (I always thought this made no sense and after reading here, maybe this is one of those don't believe what they say things because they are just making the narrative as negative as possible to give no hope?). What is my next move, IS there any hope? It feels like she made her final decision. I don't want to be in a marriage where I'm not wanted, that has been very hurtful for me knowing her doubts and like I said sometimes I wonder if I'm not a huge fool. I am an intelligent, capable, attractive person, and I know that she respects me as a person. It's just the classic connection problem. My mom just recently divorced my father after 30 years of a loveless marriage claiming the exact same problem. I do not want to live that life or repeat his mistakes and yet here I am.
Do I keep trying?
It is completely demoralizing and it is not for lack of effort or willingness. I will do anything if it will help. Part of my problem is that I don't really know what to expect from marriage or have a good gauge for what is "normal" and what is some fatal flaw. But it sure seems like our issues are pretty typical.
I just don't really understand how a week ago everything was fine (obviously they weren't really), and suddenly she claims she has been miserable the whole time. Last weekend she got jealous enough of a stranger giving me a hug that she commented on it. Even during her "shut down" week, I came to see her win an award and she put her hand on my knee when I arrived. I just feel like I can't believe she has no feelings at all and that's what makes me not want to give up. But I don't want to over-analyze to the point of delusion. Last time, I implemented all the rules of giving space and not putting any pressure and I thought it worked. But rather than having an explicit talk about how we were going to "try again" it just sort of happened and of course I didn't complain. I was probably too quick to fall back into routine once I thought I was in the safe zone. When the rule says you don't talk about the relationship, when is it okay to do so? Because this time, if by some miracle I get the chance, I don't want to repeat the cycle and constantly wonder what the heck actually happened or how she really feels or why she is mentioning me as part of her long term plans again. Eventually I hope I can have a marriage that I am sure of.
Also, so many people here seem to have EAs and PAs as part of their story, which I'm so thankful that's not part of mine, but in some ways it almost feels worse because apparently even being alone is better than being with me. Does the fact there is no A increase or decrease my chances? Any advice or sharing is greatly appreciated and thanks for reading, sorry it was so long.
Last edited by Cadet; 04/02/1803:45 AM. Reason: carriage returns for readability
M: 26 W: 26 M: 1.5 T: 3 No kids BD: 31 March 2018
W's affair began: 23 March 2018 Affair confirmed: 18 April 2018 Confrontation/claims she ended A: 14 May 2018 Ended in-house separation: July 2018
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Thank you, Cadet. This might not be the best place to ask this, but I have searched everywhere. it says I have a new message but then when i click it it says "private messages are disabled". My preferences say they are allowed, how do I enable them?
M: 26 W: 26 M: 1.5 T: 3 No kids BD: 31 March 2018
W's affair began: 23 March 2018 Affair confirmed: 18 April 2018 Confrontation/claims she ended A: 14 May 2018 Ended in-house separation: July 2018
Thank you, Cadet. This might not be the best place to ask this, but I have searched everywhere. it says I have a new message but then when i click it it says "private messages are disabled". My preferences say they are allowed, how do I enable them?
Private messages are not allowed on this forum. The one you received is an automated message sent by the software.
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Here's my suggestion. First, drag this out until you are done with your master's program. Sorry. There, I said it. It may feel wrong, but you made the choices you made because your W let you believe that you were a family unit and that you could rely on her while you tried to better yourself and your lives together. Now she is ripping the carpet from under you. I am not saying that you should not take steps to secure your independence because you absolutely should. However, you should also remember that divorce takes time. Even if you are not in a place where you can have a reasonable talk with her about your timelines (and it CAN be dangerous to have that talk), it is on her to file and until the divorce is final, you are under no obligation to move out.
Me: 28 H: 30 T: 9 M: 7
WAH: First half of 2017. Round 2 started in Spring 2018.
I know she feels tremendous guilt because if we split up and I have to move back home somehow, all my plans for career (I am currently in a masters program) have to be changed to get a job quickly and support myself and we would have to figure out how to pay for my stuff to be moved including my car etc. A huge mess that honestly works against me because I think it makes her feel even more trapped and resentful.
So what are you doing about all of this? Have you looked into your options?
Originally Posted By: 44tries
What is my next move, IS there any hope?
You seem very focused on her. What are you doing for you? GAL? Also, have you read DR - I couldnt really tell from your post.
Originally Posted By: 44tries
Last time, I implemented all the rules of giving space and not putting any pressure and I thought it worked. But rather than having an explicit talk about how we were going to "try again" it just sort of happened and of course I didn't complain. I was probably too quick to fall back into routine once I thought I was in the safe zone.
You say 'last time' like the crisis ended. I dont think it ever has. You say you 'fell back into a routine'. Does that mean your original changes werent genuine? How are you different today than you were at the start?
Originally Posted By: 44tries
When the rule says you don't talk about the relationship, when is it okay to do so?
I say when she brings it up.
Originally Posted By: 44tries
Does the fact there is no A increase or decrease my chances?
Yes
Originally Posted By: 44tries
Any advice or sharing is greatly appreciated and thanks for reading, sorry it was so long.
I definitely agree with you. I have no intention of moving out/home or taking any further steps toward D. I have respected her request for separation, we are taking turns sleeping in our normal bed and the guest room (her idea, not mine but whatever). I really try not to harbor any anger toward her for transplanting my life and doing everything I can as the supporting stay at home spouse and now she backs out. For her part, she has said she isn't "kicking me out on the street". In fact, she hasn't given any further details on how exactly the relationship is supposed to end besides not wanting to share a bed because it doesn't seem "appropriate". I take this as a win I guess because without a real plan, how is it going to happen? You are right, this is on her to figure out and I don't intend to help or even ask about it. I will wait until she initiates.
In the meantime, I am putting my head down with my studies and trying to prepare myself better if I were to have to get back to work sooner than planned. Also following the rules of keeping my distance, not texting her at work or really initiating conversation even at home. It is very lonely for me unfortunately because I am here in a foreign country where they don't speak English, any few friends I have here are mutual ones from her work, and obviously home is far away. Even though it's only been a few days, I miss her company deeply and it is heart wrenching to sit alone in my office after she comes home from work and all I want to do is talk to her.
M: 26 W: 26 M: 1.5 T: 3 No kids BD: 31 March 2018
W's affair began: 23 March 2018 Affair confirmed: 18 April 2018 Confrontation/claims she ended A: 14 May 2018 Ended in-house separation: July 2018
I have respected her request for separation, we are taking turns sleeping in our normal bed and the guest room (her idea, not mine but whatever).
I dont understand why you are taking turns. If it were me, Id tell her that she is free to sleep wherever she wants. If she wants a separation, why are you making yourself uncomfortable for it?
Originally Posted By: 44tries
It is very lonely for me unfortunately because I am here in a foreign country where they don't speak English, any few friends I have here are mutual ones from her work, and obviously home is far away. Even though it's only been a few days, I miss her company deeply and it is heart wrenching to sit alone in my office after she comes home from work and all I want to do is talk to her.
So as I asked in my last post....what are you doing for GAL?
As I replied to Olya, I am going to let her be the one to figure out how we will move everything and when. Do you think this is a mistake? But I certainly am not in a rush to push for it and I sort of view the fact that she didn't come in and say here are some boxes, get packing, as a win. We have about ten months left at this location, don't know where we (I guess she) is going next, but if I am not on her orders maybe the military will ship my stuff/car home. I don't know how all this works and partly why it is up to her to find out. I am hoping that continuing living together and having this time if we get that far is a positive.
You are right, probably too focused on her. But, for myself I am buckling down on studies and job preparation, going to start doing things on my own like mountain biking and being stricter about going to the gym etc. The problem is that I am pretty isolated here and don't have the luxury of going out with my friends or a lot of the community resources I would normally have. Guess it's time to make some new local friends at the dog park and try to improve my language skills to communicate (something I have been doing anyway).
Right again, I don't think the crisis ended. I did at one point, or rather just ignored it because I thought the storm had passed. Big mistake I won't make again. If she decides to not be completely done, we will have to do a lot of intentional work on rebuilding our connection and trying to reignite the feelings that are missing. As for the changes I made, they were genuine and I truly believe I am permanently changed in the ways I tried to and that any future relationship with her or someone else will benefit. I focused mostly on 1. giving her more space and not being overbearing as she has mentioned feeling suffocated often. Obviously I will continue to work on it as she said it again this week but she has said it way less often and I know my behavior is far less suffocating than it used to be. 2. I no longer try to control and have my way or talk and talk trying to convince her of my views. Before, I was easily threatened or felt anxious and could become manipulative without even realizing it. I reflected a lot on this and am much more calm and accepting, going with the flow (ironic because I'm actually pretty easy going in general, just not as much in he relationship), and valuing her opinions and wants a lot more. Allowing her to drive, so to speak. Those things I have improved and not regressed. Unfortunately, the things that I will focus on this time around (if I get the chance, or for future relationships) are probably more important, especially for the connection issue. I need to be much more aware of building her up, making her feel good about herself, that sort of thing. She is the type that would never ever ask for compliments and acts like she doesn't care or need anything like that, but I have learned over time it is all a facade. She is actually very needy (not in a bad way, lack of a better word) in this way. I am relatively insensitive and don't need much in the way of an ego-boost so it is not always first nature to make sure I mention positive things and actively try to make someone feel good. I think this has been very hurtful for her and I deeply regret not realizing it sooner. Secondly, I can be selfish in the small things and she notices. I am good at grand gestures and giving gifts, but when it comes to true selflessness, I have realized I am very poor in this area. If I open a cookie package and no one's looking I would probably take the best one for myself. I do not want to be this way anymore especially with my wife. It hurts so much to think that I may not have truly put her first and made her feel she is my top priority in the little ways (heck, there probably was a time when I thought she was my highest priority but she really wasn't because I was immature and dumb and didn't know how to be in a real adult relationship). These are ways I have grown as a person and will continue to strive to grow.
As for talking about the relationship, I agree, but what if she doesn't bring it up? Last time, she just sort of slid back into it without explicitly saying she was ready to try again. I guess I should have stopped and said hey what's going on, but I was afraid to rock the boat.
I will definitely keep posting, feels good to get it all "on paper" and not sit wallowing. Thanks again to anyone who doesn't even know me and takes the time to read.
M: 26 W: 26 M: 1.5 T: 3 No kids BD: 31 March 2018
W's affair began: 23 March 2018 Affair confirmed: 18 April 2018 Confrontation/claims she ended A: 14 May 2018 Ended in-house separation: July 2018
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
