No more denial, time to get to work

[MRay]

I wouldn't know about the hovering. Before BD she slept towards the middle of the bed, now W refuses to be in the same bed at all. We're sleeping in different rooms altogether.

[AnotherStander]

Ah, she skipped right to that. My ex eased into it, said she needed to sleep with the kids "so they can get to sleep." So for a while it was sleeping with them half the week and spending the other half perched on the edge of our bed like those pennies in that arcade machine.

Anyway this is all very typical behavior for a WAS. Don't worry about it, there have plenty of sitches here where things were all that and worse and the couple ended up happily married again. It takes a lot of patience and hard work though.

[MRay]

So I think today was a good day. I went to S3's Easter party at school, and then took both kids to my parents for the day. I went to my best friend's house with D6 and met his new baby. W went to a movie after work, she says all by herself and I believe her. She asked my permission if she could go, which is kind of weird. I think she just isn't used to going out and doing things. I told her I was out of the house with the kids and she could do whatever she wanted. When I got home we tucked in the kids and she was all excited to tell me about her day and talk about the movie as I had already gone to see it myself. She asked if I had plans for the weekend, and I said I hadn't finalized anything but was considering going fishing at some point. She encouraged me to go while she watched the kids.

[MRay]

So I'm not sure what to do today. W woke up sick. I had planned to leave the kids with her and head out for a day of fishing, but she looks pretty bad and I don't want to leave the kids with her when she is in no place to run after two young children. Normally I'd take care of the kids and make some homemade soup to help her feel better, but I'm not sure that's the right thing to do.

Do I leave her with the kids while I GAL? Do I take care of the kids, but not make soup for her because she'd feel pressure? I'm just not sure anymore. I am usually decisive and go with what I think is right, but she typically perceives that as NGS, so I'm backing off.

[SteveLW]

This stuff makes you question everything. I've gone through the same thing. My advice: take care of the kids, and tell her to let you know if she needs or wants anything.

That way you're not pressuring her (making her soup whether she wants it or not), but she knows you'll provide if she wants it.

My wife hates when i presume she wants something, but likes to know I'll be there if she does want something.

[AnotherStander]

So I'm not sure what to do today. W woke up sick. I had planned to leave the kids with her and head out for a day of fishing, but she looks pretty bad and I don't want to leave the kids with her when she is in no place to run after two young children. Normally I'd take care of the kids and make some homemade soup to help her feel better, but I'm not sure that's the right thing to do.

Do I leave her with the kids while I GAL? Do I take care of the kids, but not make soup for her because she'd feel pressure? I'm just not sure anymore. I am usually decisive and go with what I think is right, but she typically perceives that as NGS, so I'm backing off.

I agree with Steve, something like this is not a "pursuit" situation because you're just trying to help her out because she's sick. Offer to help her and make some soup, if she says no then offer to take the kids with you fishing (or take them with you somewhere else if they don't fish).

A lot of people think "detach" means that in a situation like this, you should just go fishing and leave her there with the kids to "suffer the consequence of her actions". Seriously though, what do they think their WAS is going to think about them? She will think they are a selfish tool and she is even more right to leave him! That is NOT detachment. That's just being rude and self-centered.

I assume your end goal is recon. When faced with situations like this ask yourself if your response gets you closer to your goal, or farther away.

[MRay]

Thanks for the responses and these make perfect sense and are in line with my thinking. She's resting while I'm taking care of the kids. I'm making the soup. I have to cook for us anyways, and our son is a bit under the weather as well, so it's not like I'm just making it for her.

Distance/pursuit is really the only major thing I did to get in this situation, so I'm a bit paranoid about pressuring/pursuing her. Especially when it's something I would have done before BD. It's amazing how your confidence is just destroyed by something like this.

[AnotherStander]

Thanks for the responses and these make perfect sense and are in line with my thinking. She's resting while I'm taking care of the kids. I'm making the soup. I have to cook for us anyways, and our son is a bit under the weather as well, so it's not like I'm just making it for her.

Good. I'm sure she will appreciate it, don't expect it to change anything but in this case it was the right thing to do and above all you should always conduct yourself with dignity and honor so, perfect

Distance/pursuit is really the only major thing I did to get in this situation, so I'm a bit paranoid about pressuring/pursuing her. Especially when it's something I would have done before BD. It's amazing how your confidence is just destroyed by something like this.

Yeah BD makes us all question everything we do. Hey, that's what we're here for! We've all walked a mile (or 10) in your shoes and came out the other side, so who better to ask Just remember that no one particular thing got you here and no one particular thing will make or break it now either. It's a long haul, just settle in and take a deep breath and keep your hope and faith!

[sandi2]

The next morning she said she had changed her mind and wasn’t sure. Then after work she came home as a completely different person. She was saying she was all in on staying in the marriage and she was bubbly and smiling, and it was all very forced. It was a very scary thing, and I don’t really know how to describe it, but I feared for her life. W is a very thin woman, and when she’s stressed or anxious she stops eating. She would sit on my lap and smile at me while shaking uncontrollably. For two days I couldn’t get her to snap out of it, so I threatened to call somebody to get her help (I’m not sure what I meant, but like I said I feared for her safety). I tried to be silly with her, and she said she had “killed silly because she had given it to him.” At this point I told her I had to leave, and if her silly side was gone forever then I didn’t want to be with her anymore. A few hours later I came home to find her huddled in bed with our kids because she was afraid I was going to take them. She had at least snapped out of her funk (I have no other words to describe it). She was down to a very dangerous weight and her clothes were hanging off her, and she later admitted that she was probably trying to slowly kill herself. She has suffered from bouts of depression in the past, but never like that and never suicidal in any way.

This account is disturbing. Did you ever make a connection to what happened with OM and when she came home completely "changed"? Has she ever talked about it? It sounds as if she suffered something traumatic. Have you ever threatened to take the kids away from her?

Does any of her family suffer from any type mental illness? Please understand that I am asking out of concern for your W. It must have scared you to see her behavior......and the extreme weight loss.

I have several questions, if you don't mind answering them.

Are you seeing the same IC that your W is seeing?

Up until she had the first child, did she seem to enjoy sexual intercourse, or was it more the affection she really wanted? Did she try to avoid sex before D6 was born?

Waiting four months to approach your W about sex........is extremely thoughtful, to say the least.......especially considering you were only 26! Did I read that correctly?

Did you notice change (better or worse) in her behavior when she got pregnant with the second child?

Has she ever gone to the doctor for depression?

[MRay]

Hi sandi, thanks for taking the time to read and comment on my sitch. I'll try to answer your questions as best I can.

This account is disturbing. Did you ever make a connection to what happened with OM and when she came home completely "changed"? Has she ever talked about it? It sounds as if she suffered something traumatic. Have you ever threatened to take the kids away from her?

I agree that it is disturbing. This was the day after I confronted OM. I know him a bit, and he is not a bad guy (did I really just type that?). I talked honestly with him, and made no threats. I really got a feel that he did not want to break up our family, and felt terrible about the whole thing. Or maybe he just realized he doesn't want a woman that's 8 years older than him with 2 kids and some serious issues. I forget the timing of it all, but at some point W was in distress and cried out, "He won't talk to me anymore" and "she was finally happy!" So to me it sounds like she lost what she had with OM, and it was traumatic. I think that sounds reasonable considering they were in constant contact for months (1000's of texts, he was in her classroom every day after school, they clocked out together, etc. how nobody noticed at school I have no idea. Her mom works there and I have friends all over that campus, and nobody said a thing.) This is all just guess work on my part though.

No, I have never threatened to take the kids from her in any way.

Does any of her family suffer from any type mental illness? Please understand that I am asking out of concern for your W. It must have scared you to see her behavior......and the extreme weight loss.

Nothing ever diagnosed, but one of her grandma's had some sort of mental illness but I'm pretty sure that was caused by substance abuse. She is just like her dad, and he is definitely depressed a lot of the time. She has said she is afraid of ending up like her parents, and she sees how sad her father is in his marriage and life.

As for her weight, she's always struggled with putting on weight. She has a fast metabolism, and can eat like a pig and not gain anything. So she will lose weight quickly once she stops eating. It's one of the biggest reasons I cook all the time, and started the trend of pursuing. I would nag her about eating when she was stressed. I felt I had to make sure she stayed healthy, when that is her issue to deal with. I think I'm realizing where some of my mistakes were made.

Are you seeing the same IC that your W is seeing?

No. Once the decision was made for her to see him for IC instead of MC, he said he couldn't see me as well as it would be a conflict of interest. The one time I did see him on my own he was pretty clearly leading me towards divorce being my best option. This is why I get nervous every time she goes to see him. The IC is doing great things for her personally. I've seen tremendous improvements in her, but I do fear he is pushing her to leave the marriage.

Up until she had the first child, did she seem to enjoy sexual intercourse, or was it more the affection she really wanted? Did she try to avoid sex before D6 was born?

She enjoyed sexual intercourse very much early in our relationship. W had a very conservative, Catholic upbringing. When her mom found her birth control pills she called W a whore and some other nasty things. She was 21 at the time, so this was quite ridiculous, but it had a big impact on W. She was never really the same sexually, but it was hard to judge being apart most of the time. Sexually things seemed healthy when she moved home after school, but more problems cropped up when we were engaged. Without telling me, she cut me off during the engagement. Naturally, I noticed. She said she didn't want to get pregnant before the wedding and this caused a lot of tension and eventually she gave in and we had sex. I shouldn't have pressed the issue, but I was 23 and we were finally near each other after 6 years of being apart and I was cut off without even being told. I see why I was angry, but a more mature me would have handled it better.

I don't remember her ever avoiding sex before D6, and we were always very affectionate before D6 even if we weren't having a lot of sex during a particularly stressful stretch. After D6, she rarely enjoyed sex. The affection wasn't there either.

Waiting four months to approach your W about sex........is extremely thoughtful, to say the least.......especially considering you were only 26! Did I read that correctly?

The birth was a fairly traumatic one with tearing and an episiotomy, and W also had multiple infections while trying to breastfeed. So I knew she was not up for sex when the doctor cleared her at the six week mark. I didn't bring it up until around the 10th-12th week mark, and we had sex at 16 weeks. W says that is the night she remembers falling out of love with me as she cried herself to sleep.

Did you notice change (better or worse) in her behavior when she got pregnant with the second child?

Nothing that stands out as out of the ordinary. She hated being pregnant both times, but seemed to handle it better the second time. Our sex life returned to normal much faster after the second time as well. She even had some fun with it because her breasts were so big (she's flat chested, and I think she enjoyed them as much as I did while they were around).

Has she ever gone to the doctor for depression?

Never, but her IC does not seem to be worried about depression or the scary 2-day whatever the heck that was. This is all relayed through her though.