No more denial, time to get to work

[MRay]

An uneventful day today. W is still sick. I'm taking the kids to my parents for Easter tomorrow while W plans to go to her parents. It's just going to be the three of them, so that's kind of a sad Easter. I offered to bring the kids by in the afternoon, but she said no. W and kids are going on vacation next week out of town for 3 nights with her mom. She asked about my plans while they were gone since I'd be living the "bachelor life." I told her I'd be going out with friends one night and maybe catch a movie another. I made a joke along the lines of already living the bachelor life and her response was in a sad tone, "Well I mean without me dragging you down all the time." I'm not really sure what to make of that, and I don't think it really matters. I think I'm getting better at not hanging off of every word and having no expectations.

[sandi2]

The birth was a fairly traumatic one with tearing and an episiotomy, and W also had multiple infections while trying to breastfeed. So I knew she was not up for sex when the doctor cleared her at the six week mark. I didn't bring it up until around the 10th-12th week mark, and we had sex at 16 weeks. W says that is the night she remembers falling out of love with me as she cried herself to sleep.

This is fairly common procedure, when giving birth. I'm not sure why it was so traumatic, unless she had nothing to help with the pain. Whatever happened.......I get the impression she fears getting pregnant again. If there is no birth control being practiced......then she might see abstaining as her only solution.

The experience with her mother is very unfortunate. I hope she has a mature woman in her life that she can talk to about her personal issues......or anything else. I think women need to have another woman to share their feelings and to seek wisdom. I am seeing a trend in our young women today that lead me to believe this is a very important link they are missing in their busy lives.

Getting M when you are very young, is quite challenging.......b/c both of you are still growing up. My H and I have changed so much that the couple we were on our wedding day is pretty much just a memory. We've been together for a long time. One of the things I discovered was the boy I wanted when I was 16.......was not the man I desired after I had more maturity under my belt. Couples will grow up together, or they'll grow up apart. The advice my grandmother gave me was, "You never reach a point you can stop working on your MR.......if you want to have a good one". She was 16 when she M my grandfather and they had been M about 65 years when he passed away.

I said all of that, not to sound as if I don't take your problems seriously. In fact, I think they could be quite serious.......depending on whatever is going on with your W. I mainly wanted you to know that I understand what it is like to fall in love very young, have the long distant romance, get M and start a family with the only person you've known intimately. Life can be very hard on marriages, but in most cases, there is always hope that the couple's love will pull them back together.

Keep posting, and don't give up.

[MRay]

Hi Sandi, it's good to know that others understand the pain I am going through. Well, not good, I wouldn't wish this on anybody but it does help to hear from people that have been through this. I greatly appreciate your time and thoughts.

I have had a successful vasectomy, so there is little chance of becoming pregnant by me. She did say that she doesn't think she could have sex with any man for a long time (a fear of pregnancy would be only one of the issues here). I believe that she really does think this though I don't think it would take nearly as long as she does. She does not have any mature women to talk to. Her relationship with her mom is much better now, but she is only now starting to realize how to talk to her mom through IC. She is an extremely private person.

I definitely understand that we are different people than we used to be. However, I really don't think it's that we grew apart, but that could just be my inability to see this from an outside perspective. In W's own words, we are perfect for each other on paper. Our goals and values align. Intellectually, monetarily, parenting-wise, etc. we are very compatible. From MC and IC, my understanding is that she doesn't want to be intimate with me because she hasn't ever been able to forgive/forget many small grievances that added up over the past 16 years. Small things that shouldn't have been left to fester if we had healthy communication over the years. This isn't exclusive to our relationship. W has done this with most close relationships in her life including her mom and her sister. She has always been really close to her dad, but they are just alike and they don't really talk at all anymore because they are both going through these really unhappy phases in their lives. IC is really helping her explore her feelings and she is trying to reconnect with the important people in her life.

Basically, everything points to no serious issues between us that are not fixable. We have discussed our communication issues, and I think they will be solved. There is just a lack of emotional attraction to me on her part. I'm not trying to say the blame is 100% hers, you can't control your feelings. She does seem to legitimately feel guilty and tries to take 100% of the blame. Honestly I think she feels worse than I do a lot of the time. I don't want her pity though. I do believe that our problems stem mostly from her issues and circumstances beyond our control, and she is in agreement if I am to believe her.

So how do I move forward? How do I become a man she can be attracted to with our history? Am I just not her type anymore?
Well, the OM is basically a carbon copy of me in terms of personality and looks. He's just, in my opinion, an inferior version of me. What does he have that I don't? A clean slate (her words). So again, how do I move forward? I just be the best me that I can be. I haven't initiated R talk in over two weeks, and I don't plan on starting one anytime soon. I've done nothing but make her smile and laugh over the last few days. She'll be heading on vacation, and when she gets back I plan on being gone for the weekend on my own vacation. She says she hasn't missed me in a long time, so I'll give her a reason to miss me. What's different than how I used to be? I don't EXPECT her to miss me. Do I have hopes hidden down in my thoughts? Of course, I can't help it. But it's not the driving force for me going on vacation. I want to do something on my own for me. I never would have done this before. I would have stayed home and waited on W and helped her get the stuff out of her car and done the laundry and taken the kids so she could have relaxed in hopes that she would appreciate and love me. Now I am taking care of myself and allowing her to take care of herself, because I have confidence that she can. What I think is an example of healthy differentiation. This is a 180 for me, and we'll see how it goes.

The biggest problem is that she just doesn't ever see us being intimate again. When we first decided to divorce and all pressure was off we were instantly best friends again. It's my hope that detaching and removing all the pressure will allow her to regain these feelings for me. We'll see. I'll definitely keep posting, and I will never give up. We may not reconcile, and I may have to move on from this R some day, but I'll never give up on myself or my family.

[sandi2]

I hope you'll take this the right way. I think a friendship is all you will have with her, unless there is a physiological breakthrough.........or her heart changes. It's not the friendship that has problems. She may or may not ever feel sexually attracted to you again. But that's not to say you are not a sexually attractive man. If she is holding onto old resentments.......that could interfere with her desire. If she has an unrealistic idea of what marriage really is in the true world......then she'll think there should never be any issues, and that if she was really in love she wouldn't haven't to work at having a great relationship, and she would have all the wonderful feelings to match. Although this sounds emotionally immature, a lot of young women have these notions in their head.

I went for a long time not feeling desire for my H. I had an awful lot of resentment toward him, and I began feeling disrespect for him as a man and as my H. I don't know if those type of feelings affect a man's desire. Short term, I doubt they do, b/c I believe men and women are made differently in more ways than just physically. Feelings of resentment and disrespect toward her H, can kill the attraction and lower her desire to make love with him. Of course, a woman is affected by her level of hormones her entire life.......so, there's always a chance she needs a little help in that area.

Anyway, a W can't feel desire for the H she disrespects. Every time I tried to approach my H about my needs and the issues in our MR, his answer was to have more sex. It really turned me off, even more. I didn't care if we went for the rest of our lives not having sex! Actually, it was more complicated, b/c I started losing myself in romance novels.......b/c I had such an emotional desire that was not being met by my H that I started fantasizing about characters in a love story, an actor in a movie.....whatever to fill that empty void. When I allowed my fantasy to grow......I got colder toward my H.

I'm not saying your W has done the same thing. It just seems strange that it suddenly changed following the birth of the first child.......if things had been as great as you seem to think they were. Whatever her real issues are, I sincerely hope she gets help.

BTW, referring back to how she would get so cutesy with you in front of others.........that may have been b/c she wanted to present what she thought was the idea picture of the perfect, loving couple. My H once accused me of trying to turn him on when I knew he couldn't act on it. In other words, it would be when we were in public or visiting in our parent's home, etc. I felt really insulted by his words. I had no desire to turn him on, b/c I didn't want sex with him......but I felt I could be more cutesy in front of others, without him pressuring me for sex.

Anyway, I have seen it played out thousands of times, right here on this board. The minute one spouse is through with the other one......the LBS has an intense desire for the spouse who wants out. Strange how that works, isn't it?

[MRay]

Sadly, I agree that a friendship is the most likely outcome for the exact reasons you have pointed out. She has built up resentment towards me that she can't let go and I think she has unrealistic expectations of a long term relationship. She thinks of me as family, and her family are the only people she's ever been close with for more than a couple years. She has built up resentment towards all of us.

And yes, she was trying to show the outside world a perfect marriage. That's what her whole life has been about: having the perfect life so she didn't disappoint her parents and all the sacrifices they made to give her this chance. She had a big checklist, and I fit the bill to check off the boxes. When describing it to me it sounded so clinical that I questioned if she ever was actually in love with me. She said she was truly in love with me at one point in time, but now she sees me like a brother. That one stung a bit.

I've always had an intense desire for her. That has never once gone away for me, and she knows it. So it's not like all of a sudden I'm showing stronger feelings for her than I ever have. I've always tried to show her my love. I've read the love languages book and honestly I feel like I was hitting them all. I don't know what her LL is and I don't think she could figure it out if she read the book either.

Anyways, thanks for the thoughts. I think I'm on the path to give us the best chance to reconnect, even if it's not the most likely outcome. I do want her to be happy. If I knew in the long run she would be happier without me, I'd file for divorce right now. I know I'll be fine, though I worry about our kids. I just believe, maybe naively, that her best chance for long term happiness is with me and our family. In the end I don't want her to stay with me if she doesn't want me. That's not fair to anybody.

[MRay]

Update time. This is mostly a motivational post trying to remind myself what I am supposed to be doing. W and kids are on vacation with MIL, and I haven't seen W or kids since Monday. Between her being sick and not being together on Easter and now this vacation, I haven't had much contact with W recently. No contact during the vacation except her texting they arrived safely and I responded with, "I hope everybody has a great time." They'll be back tomorrow, and I'm heading out of town myself to visit my sister and catch a baseball game. I'm hoping to leave the house before they get home, and I won't be home until late Saturday night or possibly Sunday so it will be almost a week with no contact.

Emotionally I've been pretty down this week. I throw a lot of my energy and GAL into my kids, and without them here I haven't been doing enough for myself. I've always done a lot with them, but I need to get better at doing things for me. I'm pretty introverted, and finding people I enjoy being with is difficult. I love teaching classrooms full of people (they're adults as I teach at a university), but it can leave me drained when it comes to my being able to tolerate people I don't want to be around. I need to just put myself out there and find some people with similar interests to my own. I have some ideas, I need to just suck it up and go do it.

I'm hoping W will have missed me at least a little bit after the week, but I know that's bad. I can't have any expectations of her. I don't plan on bringing up the time we've been apart beyond telling the kids I missed them and asking them all about their trip. Maybe I'll take them to the park and talk to them about it there so W doesn't think I'm trying to manipulate her in some way (I swear everything I do is some type of manipulation to her). I am determined to show W nothing but strength, happiness, and me enjoying my life and thriving. I know I can only really do that if I get out there and go do it!

[sandi2]

Would like to hear from you. How are you doing?

[MRay]

Hi Sandi, thanks for caring. I'm doing okay. I really thought having the time away from W would help me keep this off my mind, but I failed miserably. I was doing good until we had that week or so of real friendship again where W was finally being herself around me. It just reminded me of how damn good we can be together. Since then she's pushed me further and further away, and I'm not handling it well. I made the mistake of asking her what's changed. She has said that it's not fair of her to ask me to be her friend. That she 100% wants to be my friend, but it's just not fair to ask that from me. I told her that I just want to interact with the real her, not some front that she's putting up, and I'll decide what is best and fair for me. She responded that everything will be fine on Monday because she'll go back to work and everything will be normal because work is normal. I said well why isn't home normal (stupid question)? What did I do to make you so sad at home (another more stupid question)? She loudly proclaimed, "What makes you think it's about you!" Then more calmly, "You've done nothing wrong. I don't want to hurt you. This is all on me." She's been pretty down since she went to her therapy session a couple weeks ago. I think IC told her that it is highly unlikely that we'll be able to stay close friends and that burst her bubble of having me as her best friend while she goes out and experiences new relationships. She also said she is back to where she doesn't know what she wants, but that when she figures it out she'd let me know (she was quite angry and sad when she said this). I know this means she wants it all and is trying to figure out how to get it.

I'm hanging on every word! I see it and I know I shouldn't, but I can't help myself. I've always been an over-analyzer. I dwell on the bad things happening in my life or the wrongs that I did that day. It's been my nature since I was 8 years old. I'm trying to change it. I'm just having a hard time convincing myself that detaching is different than not loving. I know it's not the same thing, but whenever I start to feel somewhat detached I panic and reach back for that strong, loving emotion that I've had for her for so long. Our old relationship is dead, I know that but I can't let it go. It's almost like an addiction.

I think something that's holding me back is that I know she has OM waiting in the wings. I have not snooped since I discovered the EA in early February. Mostly because I know I wouldn't find anything as W is very smart and could easily hide it. This is a boundary that I have set with her. If she is interacting with him in any way beyond what is required for work (which is very little), then I am done. She would be out of the house, and we would have no interaction beyond exchanging the kids. I completely believe she is not talking to OM behind my back. I know she has had some required minor dealings with him at work, but never alone. She volunteered this information to me. She doesn't go out with friends. She doesn't drink or party. If she didn't have him waiting, I think it would be a lot easier to let her go and let her realize what she is giving up. I know that I will leave giant shoes to fill, and she'll realize just what she has lost eventually. I think the limerence is truly blinding her. But again, this is all about her. I know I should be focusing on me! I know! I keep yelling at myself to focus on me! I can't (and don't want to) control her!

The biggest thing that is just killing me is D6 has definitely realized something is going on, and is feeling her world being ripped apart. She is doing things like drawing pictures of Mommy and Daddy together with hearts between us and giving it to me and wanting me to show it to W. I'm pretty sure she thinks it will help put us back together. She is also acting out a lot more than usual. She is very concerned that we are sleeping apart. I am an emotional guy, and I have been pretty good at staying strong in front of W. I don't think showing a little emotion is weakness, but when D6 is clearly hurting and worried it just kills me and makes me very angry.

So what about my GAL? Well I just got back from a trip out of town. W has IC session Wednesday evening, which is usually when I meet some friends for happy hour. So I'll be heading to a movie Thursday night instead. I missed a week of workouts, so I'm going to hit that hard and set some real goals now. I am currently 6' 180 lbs, and in high school I was quite the athlete at a healthy 215. My long term goal is to add 20 lbs of muscle to make it to 200. W is going to prom Saturday (required duty for many of the teachers, and I'm pretty sure OM will be there so that's fantastic). She's going to wear a dress I bought her before this whole mess started and she's going out with one of her friends (another female teacher that has to go that I am close with and trust) to get dinner and mani/pedi's beforehand. She's finally doing something for herself, something that I've always encouraged. W was recently looking at a photo of when we went to prom together and quietly asked herself where that boy had gone. She didn't know I was coming around the corner and heard her and I said he's right here. She was startled, smiled at me and said I know, but I don't know where that girl has gone. She looked pretty sad, and I told her that I was sure she'd find her again someday and become an even better version of herself. Back on topic, so I'm taking my kids out to dinner that night, which I'm trying to make a regular thing (S3 makes this quite difficult sometimes).

Basically, I oscillate between being angry with W for being so weak and doing this to our family and then remembering just how strong she can be and how great we are together and missing her. I know this is bad, and I need to make my own world and be happy in it. I cannot have my mood depend on my latest interactions with W. I know that I need to detach to save myself. I even think I know how to do that. I need to gather the strength and actually do it and stick with it. Knowing might be half the battle, but doing it seems to be the more difficult half for me.

[sandi2]

Since then she's pushed me further and further away, and I'm not handling it well. I made the mistake of asking her what's changed. She has said that it's not fair of her to ask me to be her friend. That she 100% wants to be my friend, but it's just not fair to ask that from me. I told her that I just want to interact with the real her, not some front that she's putting up, and I'll decide what is best and fair for me.

I have to agree with her. It's not fair to ask you to be her friend. Although you think you want it, that's not actually all you want. You are feeling desperate, and sorry to say......it shows in your response to her. Here's the thing, the two of you would look at the friendship in different ways. You would always be hoping (and analyzing) that it was leading to something closer than just friends. She, on the other hand, thinks of you as her BFF and does not desire you as a H.

I'm hanging on every word! I see it and I know I shouldn't, but I can't help myself.

Yes, you can. (I'm saying this lovingly). You can change those actions. Don't confuse actions with emotions. It's your desire to hang onto every word and analyze everything.

I've always been an over-analyzer. I dwell on the bad things happening in my life or the wrongs that I did that day. It's been my nature since I was 8 years old. I'm trying to change it.

Okay, what are you doing to change it? You have to be proactive about it.

I'm just having a hard time convincing myself that detaching is different than not loving. I know it's not the same thing, but whenever I start to feel somewhat detached I panic and reach back for that strong, loving emotion that I've had for her for so long. Our old relationship is dead, I know that but I can't let it go. It's almost like an addiction.

The voice that says you can't help yourself, is the same voice that says detaching is not loving. I can't remember if you are seeing an IC, but it might be benefitical if you could have a few sessions to guide you through this process of letting go. You are actually experiencing fear whenever you consider the possibility of losing the relationship. You can't imagine.......or don't want to think of having a life without her in it.

I completely believe she is not talking to OM behind my back

From where I sit, this looks like denial. Just like you not wanting to snoop, b/c you are afraid of what you'll see. Your emotions had rather live in denial, then to be faced with the painful truth. If she has him waiting in the wing.........I'm pretty sure she'll make some type of contact with him, if nothing else, to keep him.

Basically, I oscillate between being angry with W for being so weak and doing this to our family and then remembering just how strong she can be and how great we are together and missing her. I know this is bad, and I need to make my own world and be happy in it. I cannot have my mood depend on my latest interactions with W. I know that I need to detach to save myself. I even think I know how to do that. I need to gather the strength and actually do it and stick with it. Knowing might be half the battle, but doing it seems to be the more difficult half for me.

Your feelings are normal. The two of you have been together a long time. I think you have a good chance at staying together........but whatever she's going through needs time. How long has she been in IC?

BTW, good job at GAL. Keep up the good work.

[MRay]

I agree with your analysis of the friendship. I don't just want to be her friend, and will not be happy with that. I have made that clear to her. I have said I just want our interactions to be real and authentic, whatever they are. A big problem has been her faking her way through the relationship, so I am very big on calling her out when she is being fake. I don't want her if it's not real.

I'll have to think about what I'm going to do to stop over-analyzing and dwelling on the bad stuff. I just started thinking about this, so I'll have to come up with some concrete ideas. And you're right about me not wanting to imagine a life without her. I've spend my entire adult life picturing what our lives would be like together. We are just getting to a point where our kids are in school and potty-trained (no more diapers!), we are financially stable, we have our careers set, and we could finally start focusing on us again. So it's hard to start imagining a new life when the old one was just getting to what was supposed to be a good part. And yes, I am afraid.

I'm not sure about the denial thing. I really don't think they are talking to each other. I trust my instincts, but denial is denial so I wouldn't really know. They do see each other on campus, that's not avoidable, so I know the feelings surge every time that happens.

I know it will take time. She's been in IC for 2 months now going every other week, and she needs a lot of work (my opinion, her opinion, and IC's opinion). I have thought about finding an IC for myself as well. I'll probably start looking later today.

Thank you for your thoughts. I greatly appreciate them. I have no friends that have been through this, and don't have anybody to discuss this with as I want to keep the path back as easy as possible. Your input is not falling on deaf ears (eyes).