My W seemed to be remorseful, but you never (I see) know what she truly feels. I am personally satisfied with boundaries and am committed to work with them.
I suspect what you were seeing, was your WW sorry she got caught. It is not remorse. Which, she proved by calling in two hours wanting two weeks to make up her mind to end her affair. No, she's not remorseful.
Please come to the board before you make anymore big approaches with your W. You gave a combination of stating a boundary and stipulations to a possible reconciliation.
Most LBH's I have observed, tend to say way too much. He starts telling the WW what all he will do if she gives the M another chance, or what he expects her do if she returns to the M........before she even agrees to end her affair (or whatever) and/or asks about the possibility of reconciling. So, be careful.
Know the differences in a boundary, and in stipulations of a reconciliation. Your boundaries are about what you won't tolerate in your life/marriage. Your terms about reconciling the MR are about what she will have to do in order for you to feel safe, and heal from her waywardness. (Which, you relayed most of it when you stated your boundary). If she wants to reconcile, she doesn't get to go home until you make it your terms clear. (Not that it is necessary to currently voice that to her, but FYI). She can agree or disagree, but if she doesn't agree to your terms, you do not move back together again. Understand? Your terms in reconciling the MR can wait untill you get past this current place you are standing. But let me inject this, for fear I will forget it later. In regards to a reconciliation.......you are the betrayed spouse, so you are the only one who makes the stipulations. She can agree to your terms or refuse. If she doesn't agree, then you do not reconcile with her! Period! Do you understand what I am saying? She has a wayward mindset. She is in no position to lay down any terms in the MR. That doesn't mean you are allowed to mistreat her. It is not a ticket to control her. Unless she is remorseful and humble, she will probably be resistant in agreeing to your terms, b/c she has a wayward mindset.....and that's what waywards do. However, if the consequences are stiff enough, she could change her mind. And it has to be more than just going dark.
However, one step at a time, and at the moment, this is about your boundary. And, that may be a challenge b/c your boundary and all of it kind of ran in together. Be careful not to talk too much at one time. And, some things we tell you, are not to be shared with her. Some things, like telling her she has a choice......are unnecessary, b/c she already knows she has a choice. You are not required to list her options. This about your boundaries, and your options. When talking to her, don't let her sidetrack the subject at hand, b/c she will try to get off into things in the past or things in the future. If this happens, direct it back to the current task. For example, nothing else needs to be discussed until she ends the A. B/c there is no point. Nothing else will be resolved until she end the A. Stick to your guns!
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W called couple hours later and said that is it possible to think two weeks, and the reasoning was this: W said that I (me) am probably in shock due to her affair and maybe I will change my time bit later. I said that I have made my decision and do not need two weeks, but if she needs it, I go dark and we get back in 2 weeks.
She's wanting time to see if OM will work out, and if not.....she knows you are sitting on ready to reconcile. She is not thinking of your feelings of being in shock! No matter how much or how little time a WW is given to make up her mind.......she will wait till the midnight hour and tell her H she still doesn't know what she wants. Affairs are addictive, so she won't reach a place she doesn't want it, until she takes the steps to break the addiction. (FYI).
Your boundaries are not about what she wants. Currently, she "wants" the OM! Your boundary is about what you won't tolerate. That is your boundary......period. Her choice is either to honor your boundary or ignore it. If it is ignored, then you ____________ (fill in the blank). If a couple are living together and he states a boundary that he will not be in an open MR.......and she does not honor it, then he has to move things to the next level, which usually means physical separation. If the couple is already physically separated, the next step usually means cutting off all financial sources he gives her (except child support), and filing for a divorce. Going dark, only, rarely works on a woman who is actively engaged in a PA.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
First of all – thanks to everyone of your contribution in this situation. I have seen many writing about how this site has been helping to maintain the sanity in difficult times. But I couldn´t agree more! It has really been a lifesaver to be able to vent thoughts here and also get all the understanding and knowledge from you guys – thank you!
I also appreciate that you have offered help in tweaking the message with W. I guess only thing why I have not been posting my thoughts to the board before sharing with W is that since I´m in a different continent with most of you, it always takes a bit time to get an perspective and sometimes I feel that things happen in so fast pace. But I guess there should not be that much of a hurry in these kind of situations so will improve in this.
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What fear does she actually have that SHE might lose YOU? Why is it so obvious that you are already willing to choose her regardless of what she says or does?
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She's wanting time to see if OM will work out, and if not.....she knows you are sitting on ready to reconcile.
What I know is this: I will only be open for recon if she completely disconnects with OM. If she will not stop A and cut every single connection, she will lose me. Period. And if she will not take the initiatives I outlined in my letter in that timeframe, I will start arranging divorce and cut off all other financial support than those that are stipulated by law. This is my decision.
However, there are two thoughts I would like to hear your opinion on:
1. Even if she would agree in my terms, she would still be able to keep in touch with OM if she wants. She could get another phone, email account or whatever, or basically whatever she could imagine as creative person. Sure, I know that I could hopefully see the change in heart (possibly), but she has proven to be very capable in lying. Any experiences how someone has coped with the situation?
2. Other thing is bit more complicated I assume… Guess it cannot be so that A turns the “power balance” etc. upside down when it comes to feelings of WW – or can it? I mean that before she had an A, I felt that my neglecting etc has been big driver in pushing her away and not wanting to share her life with me. Now after A, why would she suddenly want it even if I do everything I outlined above (leaving her)? I can only think of 1 reason why – please shout if you have more: the fact that she will actually lose me will be real. That could make her to think (at least in long term) what does she actually want and help to let the resentment towards me go. And if it does not lead there, I will feel anyways better for myself standing straight and not dealing with that A bs. I also remember I once red an opinion (might be from this site) that usually wayward behaviour does not end before they need to look the truth in the eye and realize that they will lose / have lost something that has been valuable for them.
So, I should know if couple of days how this goes. To be honest, I have 0 expectations that she wants to find her way back to me (I still have hopes though). Therefore, I have actually not even thought what would I say if she says that she wants to recon. On the other hand, I have thought what will I say if she still asks more time to think or why I´m in such of a hurry. I was planning to say something along the lines: “I am not in hurry to anywhere, but under these circumstances I need prove from you that you want to work on our relationship. The decisions you have made with OM has caused that there is no longer such thing as us. Despite what happened, I have given us a chance and opened the door towards forgiveness. If you don´t want to grasp that chance right now, it tells me everything I need to know of your priorities. Now it´s time for me to take the next step in my life without you.”
And if she still is fishing how I feel, I will not expose any hurt, but say: “I feel clearer. I look to the future with open eyes and feel excited what will it bring for me”.
How does the board feel?
Despite the HORRIBLE feeling I have felt in past few days, I´m sure that I will stay alive and be happy someday. I will begin detaching, continue gal and have 0 expectations. And love my great kids
“I am not in hurry to anywhere, but under these circumstances I need prove from you that you want to work on our relationship. The decisions you have made with OM has caused that there is no longer such thing as us. Despite what happened, I have given us a chance and opened the door towards forgiveness. If you don´t want to grasp that chance right now, it tells me everything I need to know of your priorities. Now it´s time for me to take the next step in my life without you.”
And if she still is fishing how I feel, I will not expose any hurt, but say: “I feel clearer. I look to the future with open eyes and feel excited what will it bring for me”.
Come on man, shes going see right through this nonsense. Like AS said it feels like your begging for another chance. If we can feel it the woman who has been with you for 15 years can feel it.
I will not to bend anywhere until she wants to be with me herself after an A. Maybe I’m bit poetic, but if I take the first sentence away I would be stronger right? I don’t want to give impression that I will wait for her to come back after it didn’t work w OM. Seriously, I will have my own life but still I want to communicate in restrained but confident and determined terms.
One more thing: If I need to take the next step and proceed w D and financial consequences, I assume MC should also be discontinued even if she ends the A? It could help us to solve issues from the past and be better functioning parents, but would you see there some major risks if that continues? Naturally would not do anything of that nature if OM is in picture.
One more thing: If I need to take the next step and proceed w D and financial consequences, I assume MC should also be discontinued even if she ends the A? It could help us to solve issues from the past and be better functioning parents, but would you see there some major risks if that continues? Naturally would not do anything of that nature if OM is in picture.
Even if she would agree in my terms, she would still be able to keep in touch with OM if she wants. She could get another phone, email account or whatever, or basically whatever she could imagine as creative person. Sure, I know that I could hopefully see the change in heart (possibly), but she has proven to be very capable in lying. Any experiences how someone has coped with the situation?
If she wants to continue the A, she can find a way. For me, applying a transparency plan, helped me to stay on the straight & narrow. I was also reading about how affairs are addictive, the emotional results on women who go from man to man, testimony of real life experiences of meeting men on the Internet, and I was on the board reading every night. At that particular time, we could give our email information, so I had a couple of mentors who were talking to me throughout the roughest part of withdrawing from the addiction. If she takes it seriously, then she will need to be transparent.....b/c the temptation to contact OM will be great. You will need to verify WON she is being honest. I can tell you more about that later. She is not strong enough without help and support. The MR can't really progress a lot, until she can get OM out of her head.
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Guess it cannot be so that A turns the “power balance” etc. upside down when it comes to feelings of WW – or can it? I mean that before she had an A, I felt that my neglecting etc has been big driver in pushing her away and not wanting to share her life with me. Now after A, why would she suddenly want it even if I do everything I outlined above (leaving her)?
Look, you are thinking like a LBH. When you make those type of statements, you sound as if you justify her reasons to continue having an A and not to work on the MR. Those very thoughts are likely to hinder you, when it's time for you to be strong and lead in this whole transparency plan. Trust me, she will need you to have more strength than she has, b/c going through the withdrawals of the A will be very hard. I want you to remember what is most important.........her willingness. What she "wants" can't take priority over what she is willing to do. You are right, why should she suddenly want to end the A and be with you. The harsh truth is......she won't. A woman can't fall in and out of love that fast. Even when it's pseudo love, it takes time! What counts in this entire ordeal is her willingness to do what is necessary to heal the MR.
Her feelings will follow her consistent actions, eventually. Currently, she is operating out of her emotions. The resentment and other issues will not be settled just b/c she agrees to reconcile. Those issues are why the couple needs professional guidance. So many couples don't survive piecing back the MR, b/c they don't understand the importance of help with their relationship problems. You both failed to do what was needed to have a good relationship. It won't be easy repairing it, but very possible.......if you get a good therapist that help couples heal after infidelity.
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Therefore, I have actually not even thought what would I say if she says that she wants to recon.
I doubt she'll make it that simple. I think she will try to lay down her own terms. And should she say she'll give the M another chance.......she will want to compromise what you've previously told her. She will want to maintain her privacy, especially her phone. So, you had better be prepared and practice using various scenarios. She has to agree to your terms, or it won't work. That's not to say you should come across as a dictator, but you will need to be firm and don't compromise on the things you have told her. H's get scared they will not get the W back, and they go soft. That's a big mistake.
If she won't agree to all your terms of reconciliation, then tell her it's no deal. Don't continue to share an apartment. Go as dark as possible, and file for a D. It may take her actually seeing that she is losing you, before she ends the A and agrees to your R terms.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
So - we had the conversation with wife and this is the status: W said that she will commit in working out our issues from the past in counseling and cut the contact to OM as I outlined in the letter. BUT, what she was not ready to commit, is the outcome of the counseling, namely if we would be a couple or not in the future. Frankly, this was the case also when we started the therapy - to solve past issues and see if we could find the emotional connection between us. So, if we would go down that road, we would not have a "relationship" status, but only go to MC with mutual commitment (and actions outlined in my letter) that there would not be anyone else in picture meanwhile. It´s of course impossible to predict the MC outcome in any case, so in that sense I´m kind of curious to see where it leads - we have appointments booked until beginning of June. So if it´s not going to work until that, then be it. What I´m curious about is what kind of signal it sends if I agree to this after OM, but it should be remembered that we did not have the result locked in the first place either...
