New LBS, not sure if he's having LMC

[meg24]

I think you are getting some fantastic advice -- from Accuray, Anotherstander, and artista -- and really, I could not say the same things better myself. I hope you will read their words again and again and let them sink in. When I was in my sitch and read here, I recall understanding the advice that was written, but really struggling to accept it. My emotional crisis would interfere with my ability to make changes.

I keep reading every word, every day. It does help me build my strength.

So please keep posting and reading here and take baby steps every day. Follow the 37 rules as best you can, even if at times they do not feel natural for you. Let him pout, threaten, walk away, and blame you! You simply live your life, listen, listen, listen, and then pull back. The only words he needs to hear from you are "I am sorry you feel that way. I hear what you are saying. I will not stand in your way." He can try and blame you and rewrite history, that's his process of guilt, but you now are showing him an amazing and strong woman.

I am getting really got at just looking at him and listening as he talks, I haven't been saying "me, me, me", but just listening. It does my soul good to hear you and others on hear by my "cheerleader".

I see your struggle of wanting to please him (show him affection and invite him back in), as he is demanding that while simultaneously pushing you away. The mind games are maddening. Here is the thing tho; you will never win. You cannot please this man, and all you can do is let him go. He is holding fear over your head because of his own fear. Do not take the bait. He told you himself he is leaving anyhow. So no more affection, hugs, s-x, you waiting and hoping he comes back in, etc, etc. Even of he gets more mad and blames you further, that is fine! Over time, he will have to accept that these are HIS choices.

Right now, I, as well as the kids, are just counting the days until he moves out. We will all be able to breathe. They are tired of the yelling, avoiding, blaming, etc. I keep talking to my 2 boys, s19 and s17, trying to keep everything open, so they can learn from my/our mistakes. D13 stays in her room most of the time, but I talk to her about relationships in general more regularly now. I need to be a good, strong example for her.

You owe him no explanation of anything (lunches, social media, where you want him to sleep, NOTHING). DO not allow him to control you anymore. He is leaving, so bye bye now, H! He chose to leave you, do he can go, and he doesn't get to keep playing with your mind.

This one I have been able to pick up fairly easy. I don't relate anything to him that I'm doing. If he asks, I give him little detail. Tonight will be interesting though, I'm having dinner with both of my sisters-in-law (both married to his 2 brothers, well, one is common law, the other is going through divorce due to transgender issue (not her own)). H is called off work today due to weather, so he'll probably be home when I leave. Should be ineresting (or not, hard to tell anymore with him).

Meg is taking her dignity and power back..... and over time, my dear, that makes you the far, far more attractive option! It is time to take a giant step back, GAL, and 180 all the way. You can do this and you do not measure reaction. Over time, this is the only way he will start looking back over his shoulder.

You bet! Actually, my strength and strong sense of independence is what mostly attracted H to me in the beginning.

[SarahW]

Meg, your story sounds so similar to mine. My H started pulling back this summer when an OW came into the picture at work. No PA that I was aware of, but definitely EA. Suddenly I was the source of all his anger and problems. I definitely believe it is a MLC as one minute he's talking about buying a motorcycle and moving out, the next he's talking about having kids (but with who if I cause all his problems?!?!)

I unfortunately found out how much effort and time he had invested in this OW instead of me. He had gotten an increase at work, and had been secretly taking the money for 3 months while we were in counseling working on our relationship.

In counseling he would be responsive and agree, try for one day, and then feel like he didn't have to try. The counselor actually called him out for his inability to decide what he wants and how he is clearly disregarding what I am asking him and telling him I need. She said he needs to figure out his out situation first before he can commit to us again. I found out he was saving up for an apartment. I begged.. And cried and cried. But he turned even more bitter and cold and said some horrible things to me. I asked him to leave his job for me, to choose me over whatever was happening with this girl at work (he still says nothing was/is happening, but clearly it isn't a professional relationship).. And he told me work was more important to him. This completely broke me, and it was at this point in the beginning of January that I started DB.

I called his bluff on the moving out bit. Even helped him find a temporary place. I limited contact, refused to reach out, did my own thing, started working on my own mental health. I had developed anxiety and panic attacks during our issues between Sept-Dec. I said I would try to be there for him if he really needed me, but that I couldn't be his buddy.

It didn't take long for him to realize how lonely he was. By the end of the first week he was actually pretty depressed and was admitting that i wasn't the cause of his problems and stress. I held my ground, and he went to individual counseling and actually was prescribed AD.. He didn't want to take them at first, but he found his negative feelings were too strong. He kept asking me to come home, but I kept reminding him this is what he wanted.

After 5 weeks he returned home and promised to be a different man. That lasted 3 days. Once he was feeling better on the AD, work was better, and he was comfortable at home again, low and behold I see him out for lunch with the OW and another coworker. He never once asked me out to lunch or tried to make plans with me. He denied it being an issue, said it was just lunch (the day after Valentine's Day) with his team... When half the team wasn't there. The next week I find a conversation between the 2 of them. You can tell she's trying hard to get a reaction out of him. Trying to joke around, asking for him to call her, and being extra friendly. For the most part he didn't reciprocate, but he never told her to stop.

This threw me for a loop. My anxiety and panic attacks have returned, as has the crying. I was doing so well when he was not in the house, but his return has us right back to the beginning. He started saying I was overreacting, crazy, causing him stress. He's been rude and mean all over again. Like he forgets all of January and what it's like to be alone. Twice in the last 2 weeks he's made a comment about ending our relationship.

So after joining the forum yesterday and reading through posts, I've started detaching again, but I know it will be harder living in the same house. This weekend I told him I needed space and booked a quick trip to Florida. He asked if I wanted him to come too, and I said no. Already he's been nicer and trying to be friendly with me.

Stay strong through the move out, this will definitely help. Just make sure he's away long enough to really understand what he's missing.

Wish you the best of luck.

[meg24]

So once again, I get an "F" in DB. Went to dinner last night with both my sisters-in-law. Didn't tell H in advance, he wasn't even home when I left. I did text him to let him know that everyone, kids included, were on the own for dinner. I do that whenever it's leftover night and I don't want to cook, se he can decide if he wants to stop for something on the way home.

Anyway, his response back, "it seems like I'm always on my own lately, but thanks for the heads up". I shouldn't have taken the bait, but I wasn't going to let him do the "always" thing. I went back through all my texts to him last 2 months, and only 4 texts that say leftovers or on your own. I responded that once a week, maybe twice sometimes, is not "always", and it's not just him.

So anyway, dinner with sisters went well, until special needs s21 calls asking about dad moving out, he's got boxes. We haven't outright told him what's going on, mentally he's about 8, on a good day, and he grabs a hold of one thing and focuses on it and nothing else. We decided to just let him experience day to day changes. He's pretty smart, he knows something is going on. I told him to breathe, and dad is going to stay with a friend for a while but he will see him on weekends.

Got home from dinner, H still awake watching TV in bed. He probably wasn't watching (was on a channel/program he NEVER watches), he was probably just waiting for me, stewing in his own anger/confusion. As I climbed into bed I asked what his timeline was for moving, so I can mentally prepare myself, as I don't think I can handle it. He said he'll start this weekend, but it seems like I'm handling everything pretty well. We went round and round, he said he will go back to sleeping in his trailer, he doesn't know why he's in the house. I stood up for myself, said you told me where you're at, to focus on myself, and I can't do both. Round and round, he said I'm right, he can't have his cake and eat it too. He's confused right now, he doesn't know what he feels.

Round and round. We get around to the ILYBNILWY. I boldly said that the in love feeling is the beginning high that doesn't last, everyone pretty much knows that, but it turns in to deeper love, the love he keeps telling me he has for me (but not in love with me). He says no, In love should last forever.

Round and round. We get around to H saying I have given him everything, but he feels like something is missing, someone out there that can give him what he wants, he mentions again that he thinks it's MLC. I agreed. I then said, finally (I've been holding it back), how is it we were finally getting to the point where the kids are growing, we can focus more on each other, why he is doing this now. He said he doesn't know. I told him he needs to talk to IC, he said maybe. I told him I hope he finds peace in himself.

This morning as alarms started to go off, snooze buttons pushed, he rolled over to me and pulled me to him and put his arm around me. He hasn't done that since early-mid December. I'm not even taking that gesture as a bread crumb, just him feeling guilty.

Believe none of what he says and only half of what he does.

[AnotherStander]

Meg, that was a huge backslide. You've gotten some golden advice in this thread, but Accuray's is a home run. It's the perfect synopsis of what we're all trying to tell you. Please stop this "more of the same" behavior and get on board with DB'ing, it'll help you first and eventually your M. My spidey sense says your M has a very strong chance of recon, but it has got to be on YOUR terms and after he has lost you and hit rock bottom. Take Accuray's post and copy it onto your phone, or print it out and keep it in your purse or pocket or whatever so you can read it several times a day. You can't nice your H back. You can't fix his problems for him. You can't snap your fingers and have your old H back. You can't temp check him back. Time and space are your friends and your weapons. Use them in abundance.

[meg24]

Meg, that was a huge backslide. You've gotten some golden advice in this thread, but Accuray's is a home run. It's the perfect synopsis of what we're all trying to tell you. Please stop this "more of the same" behavior and get on board with DB'ing, it'll help you first and eventually your M. My spidey sense says your M has a very strong chance of recon, but it has got to be on YOUR terms and after he has lost you and hit rock bottom. Take Accuray's post and copy it onto your phone, or print it out and keep it in your purse or pocket or whatever so you can read it several times a day. You can't nice your H back. You can't fix his problems for him. You can't snap your fingers and have your old H back. You can't temp check him back. Time and space are your friends and your weapons. Use them in abundance.

I agree, it was a HUGE backslide for me. H just has a way of roping me in without doing or saying much of anything. And he's really good at making me feel like I did everything horribly wrong, even as he says I didn't.

I don't know if he really believes that he's confused, or if he still believes that I'm to blame. But last night was bad. I wasn't the usual emotional mess as normal, for the most part I kept my composure. But I think that he feels that me backing off, as I have been before last night, that I'm done. I don't know.

My mantra, "Believe nothing he says and only half of what he does."

[Accuray]

Don't beat yourself up Meg, this is tough stuff!

As I climbed into bed I asked what his timeline was for moving, so I can mentally prepare myself, as I don't think I can handle it.

When you say you have to mentally prepare and you don't think you can handle it you're telling him:

1) That you can't live without him, and will therefore sit on the shelf patiently waiting for him to change his mind which gives him all the power in the relationship

2) That he's responsible for how you're feeling, which he'll resent you for because it makes him feel guilty. This guilt blanket will make him want to avoid and get away from you so he stops being reminded of the impact he's causing. This is what "act as if" and "GAL" are all about.

How you want to handle this is to be smiles, enjoy your life and say "enjoy moving out! Let me know when your stuff will be gone" and move on.

Round and round. We get around to the ILYBNILWY. I boldly said that the in love feeling is the beginning high that doesn't last, everyone pretty much knows that, but it turns in to deeper love, the love he keeps telling me he has for me (but not in love with me). He says no, In love should last forever.

Hopefully you've learned from this and will not engage in another R talk ever again. That's not just "don't start an R talk yourself" that's "don't participate in one at all, even if he starts one"

Meg this is super hard and requires a ton of discipline. The sooner you can get him out the easier things will be for you, believe me. You should be encouraging him to go at this point, then make him miss you and appear happy!

Acc

[meg24]

Accuray..

I hear everything you say, I keep reading and re-reading your words. Every day I tell myself I won't go to that "place". Then I get sucked in.

It almost feels like one big test lately, to see if I "really love him", and if I do I should be doing all the things he wants, no matter what his feelings towards me. I told him last night that "I can't do those, you told me yourself it won't work."

He said he'll start this weekend, but it seems like I'm handling everything pretty well.

I shouldn't have engaged, I know. His comment above makes me think he was at the very teeny tiny beginning of feeling he's losing me.

Or am I reading too much into it?

[KitCat]

Its a process... this DB thing. I stumble a lot too!

I've managed to get my ropes in place and I finally stopped bringing up R. I just don't go there now. I've learned that bringing it up doesn't help me feel better and it just reminds H how confused he is.

Now that being said I do still make other mistakes. I am not detaching much at all which is not good for me.

Sometimes some of this stuff just needs to play itself out. You need to let yourself make the mistakes as a reminder on why not to go that direction AND to figure out that you are strong enough to pick yourself up and keep moving forward.

One hour at a time... until it can be a day at time!!! We will get there!

[Accuray]

Meg the problem with these scenarios is that we forget ourselves. Think back to when you were dating. Did you like the guys who threw themselves at you, bought you gifts and did your homework for you, or did you like the guys you had to work for? That were mysterious, that you didn't know if you could get them or not?

For some reason, when we become an LBS we default to "pleasing mode" but you *know* deep down that this never works.

If you want him to want you, you need to be a person of value, you need to rise above. A person of value does not tolerate his crap. A person of value needs effort to be engaged.

Be the prize to be won. Be the prize to be won.

Acc

[meg24]

Let's see if I can sum up the last 3 days. Most of what's been going is with special needs s21.

Every morning he's been asking about H's boxes of clothes, when will he be home, how long will he be gone, etc. Just remember, he's 21, almost 22, with cognitive abilities of 8-year-old, on a good day.

Every day after school he calls me as soon as he gets on the bus, then again when he gets home, and sometimes again before I leave work. He asks same questions over and over. I just keep telling him I don't know. We have to take one day at a time, just focus on today. I finally had to ask son's doctor to increase his anxiety med dosage, and current is no longer working. I even called his teacher, so she could help ease his anxiety at school. I finally came up with the idea to put H's visit schedule on kitchen calendar (s21 LIVES by the calendar, goes nuts if something is there that doesn't get done).

I guess last night when H got home from work (I was already asleep), s21 proceeded to ask him something about the calendar (H informed me of this conversation this morning). I told him we need to come up with a schedule and put it on the calendar. H said "I wish you would include me in on these decisions before telling him" (kind of along the same lines how he told s19 and s17 aboud BD without including me on that decision). I told H that I mentioned to s21 that we would put H's visits on the calendar once we know what they are, there was no decision involved. He said fine, maybe he would spend some Saturdays with s21 after son's bi-weekly Saturday activity, possibly have s21 spend night at his new apartment. Yeah, that won't go over well with s21, he hates going ANYWHERE, he hates sleeping anywhere but his own bed. But we'll see. But it does need to go on the calendar for s21 to look at. Then when H flakes/forgets/overbooks himself (he's done the SEVERAL times), he can deal with the fallout.