So I am totally failing at detaching this week. I myself haven't initiated any R talks with H, but as soon as he makes even the smallest comment about our sitch, I take the bait.
After Wednesday's fiasco (see my last few posts), Thursday was all quiet, until last night.
H has been sleeping in the house all week due to temperature drop in our area (his hunting trailer is from 1970, pretty much no insulation). Anyway, all week I have already been in bed when he gets home, and asleep by the time he comes to bed. Not so last night. We both climbed into bed at the same time, I went to go to sleep. After a few minutes he gets up to gather his things to head out to the trailer. I commented on it, he said why should I sleep inside? Because it's warm (it was snowing outside at the time, a rareity for our town). He said I told you the other day that I want sex, but you don't get it.
At this point the discussion proceeds that once again, I am not initiating, showing affection. He said he's moving out next week, he thought I would be taking this opportunity. I stopped him and said our sitch is different right now, it's harder for me to read his body language, so how do I know when he wants sex? He needs to give a signal. He did agree, apologized, but proceeded to stand there while I cried. Then he said that he feels the more we have these talks the more unfixable our R feels. I told him I don't feel the same. I said I know this will never be the same, but different and better if we work.
He went out to his trailer and sent me a text that he stood there waiting for me to invite him to stay, that inviting is different that me stating I don't want him to go out to trailer. I responded that I don't want him out there, that I don't want him to move out. He said he had to move out. I asked him to come back inside, he did.
H is still testing me. I told him he has to stop testing me, it's not fair. I told him it [censored] that when I was pursuing, trying to make quick changes, it pushed him away, and me pulling back is also pushing him away. He said that he will probably find fault with everything I do right now, one way or the other.
How do I stop myself from getting sucked into the discussion? Especially without making him think that I am done and no longer want the marriage?
He said that he will probably find fault with everything I do right now, one way or the other.
Meg, think long and hard about this, because it's true.
He knows you want the M. You don't need to show him or tell him. Even when I stopped wanting the M, my XW had a hard time accepting that. I had to tell her a few times before it sank in.
Me-47,XW-43 S13,S16 M:18 BD:4-23-17 W filed:7-17-17 (5 months of in-house separation hell) W moved out:1-6-18 D granted:2-15-18 Decree signed:3-29-18
i am sorry, Meg--but he is playing games with you... very immature... he pretty much sums it up himself--he will likely find fault with everything you do... when he got up to go outside, you should have just let him go... in my opinion, he is being cruel to you... testing you... you cannot win... he knows you don't want to lose him, and he is putting everything on you... even the responsibility of reading his mind... and you keep going for it... you believe that what you did in your marriage was so horrible that you deserve to be treated this way... i hope you are able to come out of that mind set soon...
Meg - I had the exact same conversation with my husband.
I started to show him that I did care and return to the affectionate woman he married but it became smothering and he said as such and pushed him further away.
He said he wasn't feeling appreciated but I asked how can I show appreciation where you don't feel smothered? And, if I leave you alone and give you space won't you feel further unappreciated?
He said he didn't know the answer. Which I believe is true.
I think our spouses are struggling with what they really want. The grass looks greener but they aren't really sure. Their heads are probably all over the place.
Where it gets complicated is that they spit out bits and pieces that they are ruminating in their heads. Those bits confuse us even further because they are just a piece of a thought. We are wondering what does that MEAN? I have to remind myself it really means nothing. It really means that he is still on the fence.
Its easy to get your hopes up with a simple phrase but then a mere 8hr later be dealing with a spouse that has retreated again.
My dearest friend tells me - that the sun will rise tomorrow and if it doesn't then we have bigger problems. Hugs!
I agree KitCat, the behavior is all over the place. H doesn't know what he wants. I personally think he's struggling with issues from childhood and thinks that the issues are strictly from our marriage. My IC, and a few people in my support circle, who are trying to remain unbiased, whom all know both of us very well, all say that his anger from his unmeet needs from me isn't just because of me, they all so it's partially from unmet needs from childhood, manifesting in marriage. If that makes any sense.
Anyway, the pain is still intense, but the crying is getting easier to manage. I told him I won't read his mind anymore, if he wants something, he has to say it, in specifics, not just generalizing.
Originally Posted By: artista
he is playing games with you... very immature... he pretty much sums it up himself--he will likely find fault with everything you do... when he got up to go outside, you should have just let him go... in my opinion, he is being cruel to you... testing you... you cannot win... he knows you don't want to lose him, and he is putting everything on you... even the responsibility of reading his mind... and you keep going for it... you believe that what you did in your marriage was so horrible that you deserve to be treated this way... i hope you are able to come out of that mind set soon...
H is moving out next weekend. I don't know if I want to be here, but it may help me detach. I am really trying to take Artista's words to heart. I haven't been a horrible wife. In H's own words (or, at least he tells me that he tells others), he can't say anything bad about me as I haven't done anything wrong.
Holy cow this whole thing is incredibly hard. One day at a time.
Well, I'm convinced is in MLC. The weekend was ok, he was gone during the days.
Saturday evening was talking to my father-in-law and he told me about a conversation with H he had on the phone that day, where H just snapped at him for no reason, out of the blue. I told father-in-law, amd s19 and s17 who were listening, that H isn't in a good place right now, don't take it to heart.
Sunday morning H was telling me something about a diet his new running partner has him on, and how he needs to start going to the gym. In 22 years of M I have never been able to get H to eat healthy. I tried cooking healthy, tasty foods, he wanted no part. Now he wants to make all the these lifestyle changes.
Talking to my boys yesterday afternoon, before H came home, they can't wait till he moves out, he's so angry all the time.
Me-44,H-44 S21,S19,S17,D13 M-22,T-29 (off and on prior to M) BD:12-20-17 (H said he had things to work out in his head) H moved out:3-4-18
You're right that he doesn't know what he wants, and he's right that he's going to find fault with whatever you do. It's not a problem you can solve.
He's not happy, most men like to be problem solvers, so he's going to offer up suggestions for things for you to try but none of them are going to work.
Do you know what will get him back?
1) He has to fear losing you -- right now he does not. You're just there for the taking and doing the proverbial "holding onto his leg for dear life"
2) He has to see you as a person of value
3) He needs to believe that his problems are his own, not problems caused by you
So how do you create the fear of losing you, establish that you're a person of high value, and make him realize that you are not the root of his problems?
>> Go the other way and give him more space than he wants <<
Do not jump through even one of his hurdles. If you're "high value" you don't need to jump through his hurdles, you don't need to prove anything to him, he has to prove himself to you.
Make a life for yourself that establishes that you're having fun, doing what makes you happy, and are surrounded by friends who like and appreciate you.
You want him outside looking through the window at this wonderful life you've created.
Shift your mindset -- YOU are the prize to be won, what is he doing to win you?
There are two ways this is going to unfold:
1) It will continue to slowly erode until it ends in divorce
2) It will get worse and then it will get better.
Either way, it will get worse first. You need to grab the handlebars and say "enough". Don't let him know what you're thinking, make him wonder. Don't tell him where you're going or who you're going out with. Make him wonder. If he doesn't want to be your husband then that information is none of his business.
Will he get mad? Yes. Will that feel worse for you? Yes. Will it make things better longer term if you can keep it up? Yes.
I was helping a woman here a few years ago and her situation was similar. At one point, she stopped pursuing her husband and just went the other direction. He moved out expecting to live a party boy lifestyle but discovered instead that he was mainly just lonely.
He called her at one point and she was at a party. When she answered the phone there was music in the background and people were laughing and having a great time.
He asked her where she was. She said "At a party"
He asked who she was with and who was there. She said "I'm out with some friends, we're having a great time. I don't have time to talk right now, have a great night!" Then she hung up.
Within 48 hours he was back on her doorstep begging to move back home, and she told him "no".
If that sequence of events happened to your H, how do you think it would shift his mindset?
Logically you might think he would give up on the marriage, or it would push him further away, but in reality something like that unfolding:
1) Makes him feel out of control 2) Makes him question his assumptions about you 3) Makes him feel loss
When he feels those things, he will want to stop feeling them, and that's going to motivate him to seriously consider what he's doing.
It basically flips where the power is between you 180 degrees, and that's what you want.
In order to make this better you need to make it worse -- head the other way. Give him more space than he wants. Stop explaining yourself to him.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
However, your post is one that I will be following. My teens are also happier now that their dad has moved out. He also was angry all the time. I am also happier but wonder if miracles still happen and if this marriage can be saved.
Me-45,H-56 DD: 18 DS: 15 M:18 T:23 H moved out:11/2017
I read your thread. I am sorry you are here and for what is happening. I have been there before and I can relate to the feelings of fear, panic, frustration, sadness, anxiety, and lack of control. It's the worst. I can assure you that it will not stay this way, however often things get worse before the get better. This process can take a very long time to unfold. Your H may need to lose everything before he sees how much he values it. So please do not let him think you are going to allow him to treat you this way or play these games with you. It is time to get tough.
I think you are getting some fantastic advice -- from Accuray, Anotherstander, and artista -- and really, I could not say the same things better myself. I hope you will read their words again and again and let them sink in. When I was in my sitch and read here, I recall understanding the advice that was written, but really struggling to accept it. My emotional crisis would interfere with my ability to make changes. So please keep posting and reading here and take baby steps every day. Follow the 37 rules as best you can, even if at times they do not feel natural for you. Let him pout, threaten, walk away, and blame you! You simply live your life, listen, listen, listen, and then pull back. The only words he needs to hear from you are "I am sorry you feel that way. I hear what you are saying. I will not stand in your way." He can try and blame you and rewrite history, that's his process of guilt, but you now are showing him an amazing and strong woman.
I see your struggle of wanting to please him (show him affection and invite him back in), as he is demanding that while simultaneously pushing you away. The mind games are maddening. Here is the thing tho; you will never win. You cannot please this man, and all you can do is let him go. He is holding fear over your head because of his own fear. Do not take the bait. He told you himself he is leaving anyhow. So no more affection, hugs, s-x, you waiting and hoping he comes back in, etc, etc. Even of he gets more mad and blames you further, that is fine! Over time, he will have to accept that these are HIS choices.
These sitches take a long time, so just let him go and let him be. It is okay for him to fear losing you (I happen to think it's a good thing). Why should a man think he can walk out on his W and family and they will sit there and wait for him? You might have trouble seeing this rationally because you are spinning. So the idea now is that you let him go, don't share your process with him, and you focus on you, your own mental health, and your kids. Find your own joy and happiness wherever you can, you deserve that. You owe him no explanation of anything (lunches, social media, where you want him to sleep, NOTHING). DO not allow him to control you anymore. He is leaving, so bye bye now, H! He chose to leave you, do he can go, and he doesn't get to keep playing with your mind.
Meg is taking her dignity and power back..... and over time, my dear, that makes you the far, far more attractive option! It is time to take a giant step back, GAL, and 180 all the way. You can do this and you do not measure reaction. Over time, this is the only way he will start looking back over his shoulder.
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
