Posting via generator, so i'll make it as short as i can.
Back after a bit of same ole same ole. Well, kinda. We are both without power from the hurricane and I've been trying to cope as best i can.
DBing, I've been weak on the NC front, but with good reason i think. I actually initiated a conversation to ask what she needed since we are both out of power for the hurricane that just went through. I hung around in 'my' driveway while they were cleaning things out of their garage and got to spend some time with both Ds, so that was something at least.
After asking a few times if she needed anything, I finally got out of the W that she needed more batteries for the flashlights i had gotten her and the kids when they lived here, so i got double what she asked for and gave it to her. At least we are talking. She seemed very tired and almost defeated when i talked to her. Made me want to help her more...
Even though she said she didn't need it, I saw a empty gas can near her trash cans, so on the 2nd run for gas/diesel, i filled it up and left it at her back door so that they'd have gas for their generator.
I saw a guy in a pick-up truck come over, stop in for a short time, only to come back later. Both trips were short. Then i did what i promised i wouldn't do by asking the 4 y/o round about questions that led to the conclusion that a married friend had dropped over a fan. This has had me thinking i'm affected two ways:
1) i found i'm not detached as much as i'd like to be and immediately jumped to the conclusion that perhaps it was a guy seeking her attention 2) If it was innocent and the guy was married like I believe, the W is going out of her way to not reach out to me for help.
Either Way, I'm not detached enough, and i know that i shouldn't be paying attention to what goes on over there as much as i have. In this emergency situation though i am wondering should i still be trying a full detachment? My IC says this is the time to reach out,after all this is my W in a emergency situation.
On another front, I'm now seeing the MC (formerly the W's IC) as my IC as a sort of coach for me. She was pushing me to reach out to the stepkids while the hurricane flooding was severe. Her thoughts are that the W was upset at me for the mixed family issues as well as spending a lot of time away from the family while i was working on my house. bI agree on both front, but what to do now?
Lastly, the neighbor has said that the W wanted to moved away, but now i hear that she is fixing up the STBXMIL's house to have the 4 y/o have her own room. That tells me she is making the house next door a permanent one. Not sure what to make of that, but at least she isn't making plans to commit to a house of her own yet. Perhaps has thats promising? or perhaps its just because she has come to the realization that she cannot afford her own "dream" house? Don't know and probably won't.
Pardon any typos, I found a bottle of wine dated the year we met and have been drinking a couple glasses from it. Further proof I'm not detached enough
Anyway, any advice is welcome.
Me 51, Wife 44; Married 4; Together 10; HSD20, XWSD13, XWSS14, XWSS17 Kids Together D4, D1.52 W Moves Out: 03/16/17 W Files : 03/17/17 D Final: 10/23/17
Sorry to hear you were affected, I hope you're back to normal soon! I was born and raised in Houston and still have a lot of family there. They were all slammed pretty hard, but thankfully no long term damage, just a lot of inconvenience and disruption.
Originally Posted By: KGuy
DBing, I've been weak on the NC front, but with good reason i think. I actually initiated a conversation to ask what she needed since we are both out of power for the hurricane that just went through.
That's understandable, good reason to reach out.
Quote:
1) i found i'm not detached as much as i'd like to be and immediately jumped to the conclusion that perhaps it was a guy seeking her attention 2) If it was innocent and the guy was married like I believe, the W is going out of her way to not reach out to me for help.
Yes most WAS's do not want ANY help from the LBS. After BD my W would ask complete strangers for help rather than ask me. It wasn't until about a year ago (4 years post BD) that she started reaching out for help again, and still does so pretty regularly. I don't mind, she has a lot of health issues and can use the help and I can do it while remaining completely detached. Anyway, I'm sure that'll change for you some day but I know how it hurts to know your WAS wants nothing from you, but it was nice of you to offer.
Quote:
In this emergency situation though i am wondering should i still be trying a full detachment? My IC says this is the time to reach out,after all this is my W in a emergency situation.
I think it's fine considering the situation, but if you offer help and she declines then let it go. Don't keep looking for excuses to show up unexpectedly.
Thanks for the reply Anotherstander, its amazing the amount of flooding. The 500 year flood is behind the back fence on a deep lot (about 100 ft) and the water came about halfway into the back yard. I marked an area that L'll survey later, but i bet it was about 2 to 2.5 ft above the 500 year flood. It was about 1.5 to 2' from the house. Luckily the projections didn't come true or I'd be in deeper (so to speak). As for the power, i used to live in Galveston and have always tried to be prepared. Strange that all those years i lived in Galveston, i never experienced a Hurricane and didn't have to use the generator. Here in Houston, I've had to use it for three hurricanes/power outages. As with your folks, that was the extent of my issues thankfully.
Power is back on now, so trying to do some major landscape things on my list outside while the ground is still soft.
I pushed the W a little on offering for her to use the stove at "our" house (they are gas and her Mom's was electric),b ut she adamantently refused so i dropped it. She did give in on my other offers of "anything" and requested some batteries. Even though she didn't want me to get any gas, I took an empty gas can she had out and filled it with some gasoline. When she dropped off the kids, i asked her if she had gotten it and she said she "yes but didn't even use it". So more to your point that she wants me to know she didn't need me, or at least that how i took it after thinking about it an that fits in with what you are saying. A good thing about it is there is at least a dialog going on between us now, so that is something. Before she would say as little as possible and was cold and angry.
Got another situation I'd like advice on if anyone care to. According to our mediated agreement, i have the kids the standard (1st, 3rd, 5th WEs) and every Thursday (overnight until school) and Tuesday (5-7:30PM). Those additional days are meant to break up the time between the weekend visits so I don't have so long between visits. When I got the kids last night, the W asked if i could switch the Tuesday for a Monday. She said it would be easier for her to watch the kids on the Tuesdays and she could go to a class she wanted to go to. She said i could have them longer. Typically one of her classes last till 10 or 10:30pm, so if i got them until then, I'd get an additional 3 hours on that night.
As i see it, there are a few negatives to this: 1) Those classes weren't helpful to the marriage I believe and i think someone in them actually encouraged her to get the divorce. On the flipside, she iis actually trying to improve herself in these clases. When we were married, i didn't mind watching the kids while she went to the classesfor the most part. 2) As i've seen mentioned around here and agree, i don't think i should help "ease her pain" as they say on watching the kids. 3) her picking them up around 10ish is quite late for a night before they need to get up early. 4) I would mean I'd have an extra day between the weekday visits 5) The Mondays would be close to the weekend and might interfere with my other house clean-up/repair.
The positives: 1) I'd get more time and may be able to negotiate an overnight on that night 2) Who knows, maybe the class would be positive for her.
Obviously the negative outweight the positives when not weighted properly. As you may be able to tell, i'm leaning towards not doing it, but the main positive i came up with without really reaching is a biggie. Right now, i am on the fence because she could give me them overnight and i take them to daycare in the morning. I don't want to enable her though and i feel she needs to feel the burden of choosing to not bend on having primary custody of the kids. I wanted 50/50 or custody, but she was real adamant about her having them. This would be one of the inconveniences of that. Me not switching would help me slightly. Anyway, I'd like a unbiased opinion as i am worried I am leaning towards denying her based on spite of past events. I don't think i am, but perhaps i'm too close to it to realize otherwise. Is there more positives that i'm blinded to here?
Me 51, Wife 44; Married 4; Together 10; HSD20, XWSD13, XWSS14, XWSS17 Kids Together D4, D1.52 W Moves Out: 03/16/17 W Files : 03/17/17 D Final: 10/23/17
Well, its been awhile, but i was drawn back here as no one else seems to support my fight for the M. They say just let her go she isn't worth it and that she took advantage of me. The MC/IC said i deserved better. Perhaps they are right, but i still feel the M commitment even now. Though reading other people's sitches this time makes me think mine won't turn out so good now that we are divorced.
Basically, we were divorced last October. The W got her house sold just after the divorce, and then the (X)MIL house next door on the market and sold before Christmas. She then combined those assets and probably took out a relatively small loan and got a house worth double what the house we bought together costs. When i had asked wht would keep us together before everything hit the fan, she said she wanted a bigger house, so now she has it.
My philosophy on housing frugality was confirmed though, as i got laid off end of this past year. Because of my conservative housing thinking, I think i may be okay since i had focused on paying off properties i had. I have options and am so glad that i didn't give in to committing to buying that big house she wanted.
My Dad is getting to where he needs help. Just last week, he fell fracturing three ribs and banging his head. I'm now considering moving in with him to keep an eye on him. Will need to consolidate my properties though, although he has offered help on the last remaining mortgage i have (i'd inherit the money anyway apparently as he isn't spending his nest egg). I feel bad about that though as i would rather be independent of him. He tells me that what family is for and i can see his point i guess.
I've started a company and will run things through that if i do get employment. I have some other ideas for the company to make rent as well, so that about to take flight as i now have the articles and paperwork to start it up. I can set my salary as well, thus the child support amount.
I had tried for 50/50, but in my state, that is only done if the two parties agree. She didn't want it, i think mainly because she was counting on the child support. I negotiated that down quite a bit and got an extended SPO, so i have almost half the waking time with the kids. Another reason to make a living through my own company. Since i was laid off, i have filed with the Attorney General to reduce my child support.
Shortly after she got the new house, she began dating someone who was in one of those classes she was taking while we were married. So, i have to say that tthe instinct of those on here was right even though i thought the best of her. Best case is that she had an EA or IA with him while we were married and he was the greener grass when our M fell apart. The MC/IC says these things generally don't work out, but i wonder. Kinda hits me hard knowing this, but i have to move on.
The interchanges are now less frequent since she arranged a daycare where i can pick up and drop off without any interaction with her. Helps me go dark for sure. I only have one evening where i drop off that i have to interact. She is still being petty on the clothing issue and will take that interchange as an opportunity to bring up any disagreements unresolved (mainly because i ignore now so as to not engage in that behavior) by email. I've told her i will not argue in front of the kids and requested that she not bring up such issues in front of them,
As far as moving on, my GAL hasn't really been as good as i'd like. I have spent more time with my Dad, which i am grateful for. I have a lot of time with the kids, which is also wonderful. That time is a little in the way of some of the GAL events i had been eyeing, but i think my priorities are in order for now at least. Still, i have added some GAL events by volunteering at the church my Dad and I go to. I am now going to another DivorceCare class which is better than the previous one i took since they split the men and women into two separate groups. No offense to the women on here because you are fighting for your M, but I got frustrated with the women in the previous class (with a couple exceptions) had all kinds of "irreconcilable" excuses as to why they were ending (or thinking of ending) their Ms. It was kinda funny, because the class teaches via the video that you should save your marriage at all costs and the only exceptions were endings that were not biblical (an A would be one though). I must ay that i admire each of you on here for fighting for your Ms even though there are plenty of excuses not to fight for the Ms. That why i came back i guess, hard to find that elsewhere.
Getting back to the house thing, I'd like to ask advice of what you guys think. I was awarded the house the W and I bought together. Its the house both the 4 & 2 y/os were born in, although the 4 y/o will have more memories. How important do you guys think it is for me to keep this house (and the stability it represents) for the kids? For me, it a reminder of the M, but i have gotten past that thinking that it was important to them that there is at least some stability in their lives.
For all of those who posted in here before, i thank you for your input. One of the things I need to work on myself is being more appreciative .
Me 51, Wife 44; Married 4; Together 10; HSD20, XWSD13, XWSS14, XWSS17 Kids Together D4, D1.52 W Moves Out: 03/16/17 W Files : 03/17/17 D Final: 10/23/17
Wow I read your update. You are a strong man. And I feel for you brother. I know it is difficult.
I signed up for a divorce care message list. They send a daily email. I will consider doing the meetings if my wife moves forward with leaving.
I had done a KIK support group for a little while (before finding this forum). I had the same problem with it that you do with divorce care. There was one women in the group that sure came across as a WW. Her marriage was awful for the many years (over 20) she had been married. NEVER had a single positive thing to say about her ex. But the kicker? She was dating a 29 year-old (she is 44) and went on and on about how great the sex is. -vomit- I left the group. Ironically, she readded me (she is a group admin) and told me I couldn't leave. So I left the group again and uninstalled KIK. I hate social media anyway.
Thanks for continuing to post. I think your story can help us. And I don't necessarily agree that you should ever give up hope of reconciliation. I read stories all the time of WASs coming to their senses even years later and wanting to reconcile. Keep your hope alive.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Getting back to the house thing, I'd like to ask advice of what you guys think. I was awarded the house the W and I bought together. Its the house both the 4 & 2 y/os were born in, although the 4 y/o will have more memories. How important do you guys think it is for me to keep this house (and the stability it represents) for the kids? For me, it a reminder of the M, but i have gotten past that thinking that it was important to them that there is at least some stability in their lives.
The house seems to be an emotional tie to you...
Couple things to keep in mind...
In that house, you are a defeated man (at least the way that your words come across here)
Down the road, with a new mate, it will feel more like you are just filling a role that your Ex played in that house, IF you remain defeated....
New house equals excitement for kids.
They will barely remember it.
Make it less of a possession, and more of an opportunity for a new beginning...
Don't feel that strong, it seems everything is coming unraveled over here, i'm just trying to keep it from totally disintegrating. I think i just have a cussed stubborness .
Back when i thought it was hormone/breast feeding withdrawal driven (with underlying factor of course), i had been told both on here and by my MC/IC that if they were to come back, it would be about 2 years. At the time, i stupidly thought my case was unique with the breast feeding issue and thought i'd give it until the breast feeding was no longer a factor (basically now). Now that "now" is now, i am of the mindset of still waiting especially now that it seems to be shaping up that she had an EA at best which is turning into a dating after the D which would put it around the same timeframes i have been told. Besides, i still have a lot of work to do on myself as well as cleaning house (so to speak ) before i am ready to totally commit to abandoning hope.
As for the DivorceCare, there are people in there who are only considering, but those are typically the ones that annoyed me I went to a meetup divorce support group that seemed to be more of a bunch of women who were comparing notes so that they all got what they "deserved". One told me i looked like Mel Gibson (I don't think so BTW) though, so that ego boost was the only positive from that experience.
Thanks for posting, i appreciate the input.
Me 51, Wife 44; Married 4; Together 10; HSD20, XWSD13, XWSS14, XWSS17 Kids Together D4, D1.52 W Moves Out: 03/16/17 W Files : 03/17/17 D Final: 10/23/17
I guess I do feel somewhat defeated because i feel i've failed because on paper the M has ended in a final D and its projected when i talk/write about the house. I thought i had moved past that, but apparently not. You are correct that I need to change that thinking.
I guess you are also correct in that the house is a sort of emotional tie, but mainly because we had the kids there. Naturally, i project that on how they feel about the house as well. The thing is that kids need stability above all else and I thought the fact that i didn't turn that 'home' location upside down would be a good thing. For myself, the house is an unwanted reminder of what the M was working toward, but i try not to let that affect me for their best interest.
Your point is also taken that moving on with someone else, the house would induce conflicting thoughts between the two relationships.
My old house which i am fixing up and considering "retreating" financially to and selling the Marital home actually has more kids around that are around the 4 y/os age. It would be a new beginning for them.
Further on the new beginnings, it would definitely send a signal if i sold this house to get something new which i am also considering (through the company i've set up)...the new beginning stuff would definitely be me doing something differently. More of the working on myself. She didn't like that i was resistant to change (which i am) and after reflection she was right that i should be less resistant to change...thanks for the input!
Me 51, Wife 44; Married 4; Together 10; HSD20, XWSD13, XWSS14, XWSS17 Kids Together D4, D1.52 W Moves Out: 03/16/17 W Files : 03/17/17 D Final: 10/23/17
alright, the (X)W still keeps going on about petty issues, mainly clothing. Personally i think its a way for her to stir up confrontation so that she is reminded that we had always fought. She has compared this behavior to how much better the OM treats her according to some things the 4 y/o has said.
At first, i would just go back and forth with her with my stance that it really didn't matter what clothes the kids got exchanged with since in effect, if i had hers, she had mine. After all, i wasn't going to send them in dirty clothes. I tried to set this boundary that i wasn't going to worry about individual items, but ensure they were clothed.
After, i stated the boundary, i tried not to discuss the issue anymore and I then ignored her emails about such issues. However, I ensured that the clothes that they came with went back with the kids. At times, i had to take their clothes off as soon as they got in the house and then ensure they were washed prior to me dropping them off the next day.
Anyway, now the kids are in a daycare that has a uniform. the XW keeps going on about listed clothes, and sent an email yesterday:
On Monday please return Cara to school with everything she had at school on Thursday. I believe you have an additional green uniform shirt at your house. Please return that on Monday as well, I only have one green uniform shirt at my house.
Please return:
the uniform shirts her uniform skirt her Friday uniform shirt her Friday uniform pants her outfit she wears for dance on Thursdays Her stuffed animal she brought to school on Thursday
Again, trying to set a boundary, i sent the following in a reply to further emphasize the boundary: What is the point of making such a list and demanding each and every item be returned? As I have said before, if you do not have the exact item of clothing you sent her in, you have like items that came from my house, so items to be returned to each other are in both households.
Surprisingly, i got a nicer reply to this email, which was as follows:
A gentle reminder that D4 looks forward every week to getting a prize for wearing her [school] uniform. Did she get a prize on Friday? She can only get this prize if we both cooperate and she has the appropriate clothes to wear on each day when i send her in. I gave you the Friday uniform in the bag so she could wear that.
Additionally D4 looks forward every week to dance and i can only send her in her leotard if i have that at my house. Additionally, at my house she enjoys sleeping with stuffed animal. Please keep her highest and best interest in mind so D4 has everything she needs when D4 is with me.
I am drafting an reply email back to her with more validation in hopes to get a better dialog going that isn't confrontational. I would love to hear any input on how it can be more validating and less confrontational. Anyway, i drafted up the following:
Thank you for sharing information on the prize and its relation to the uniform with me. I was glad that you cooperated with me to make this happen. The previous week D4 had told me it was about her doing what she was told, however this past Friday, Ms. XXX told me she had told D4 that if she wore the uniform this past week, she would get a prize. Yes, after much indecision on what she wanted, she did get a prize, a beach ball with a fish inside.
I hear you that D4 looks forward to dance, she always has hasn’t she? If I understand your past email, she has her dance in the afternoon on Thursdays, is this correct? In any case I hear what you are saying, and since you (/ your mother) bring the girls in Thursday mornings, I left the ballet bag with Cara’s ballet outfit and shoes at daycare. As for the stuffed doll, I can see this is important to you, and more importantly important to D4. I had planned to return it Monday and will take all steps to ensure it gets back to your house. I have been trying to limit her bringing too many toys along with her, so on Friday, when she wanted to bring her monkey instead she left it here. As always, I have D4 and D2’s best interest at heart, so I agree with you that it is in both of the girl’s best interest to ensure they are returned with everything they need at either house.
Anyway, any input is appreciated. The fact that she reworded her email to request instead of demand is progress on her part and I would like to keep it progressing to where we at least are communicating properly.
Me 51, Wife 44; Married 4; Together 10; HSD20, XWSD13, XWSS14, XWSS17 Kids Together D4, D1.52 W Moves Out: 03/16/17 W Files : 03/17/17 D Final: 10/23/17
You are a more patient man than most KGuy, I would not even be responding to these types of emails. It's ridiculous to return kids to the other parent with the same clothes they were in when they left the other parent (as you quite rightly point out, they need to be laundered). If it's that big a concern to her, you and her buy a whole bunch more of everything so there are four or five sets of uniforms at each house so that when D4 goes back, or vice versa, there are lots of uniform pieces available to XW (and lots at your place too).
Not that my advice is always best taken (in fact, probably not), but I would either ignore that silliness or just tell her she's being silly. You might remind her that these are exactly the kind of two household issues that result from the situation she created.
I know that won't promote better communication but she will at least (secretly) respect you for calling her out on her unreasonableness. And if your common sense response angers or frustrates her instead...so what, what's she going to do, leave you??
