I need some advice regarding filing the taxes. I was advised by several individuals to not e-file her taxes without her being present and being the one to actually file.
I need some help figuring out how to frame this to her as I don't want to come across like I don't want to do her taxes or I'm trying to make an excuse to see her. I'm thinking of texting her something like "Hey, in order to file your taxes I need you to enter some information and e-sign the forms. If you'd like, I can load everything up on my computer and you can come fill out the required information."
Any advice on how to frame this would be much appreciated. I'm going to message her tomorrow night.
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
Oh, and one more thing. I had a realization of sorts today that has been helping me detach and GAL.
I thought to myself what if she were to come back right now, would I be in the right state of mind and confident that I'd continue to be the best person I can be? Alternatively, would I be in the right state of mind and confident I could have a relationship with anyone right now?
The answer is no. It helped me realize I have just as much work, growing, and discovering myself as she does, regardless of the outcome of our situation. As Cadet says, she really did give me the gift of time. This entire situation made me realize things about myself that I never considered to be detrimental to relationships only until now.
That epiphany has changed my outlook on this entire situation and the DB program. I truly see now that it is for ME to help become the best me and to focus on the journey, not the destination.
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
Just providing an update. I didn't have any problems letting her know about the tax situation. Additionally, she came by my house yesterday for a few minutes to pick up her mail and tax forms. We spoke for a little bit, it was pleasant, but mostly about logistics. I told her I'm packing up the rest of her things and will leave them in the front room of the house with her name on them. She said she'll come by some time this week to grab them. She did compliment the house being clean, again.
I asked her how work was going and we made a little small talk. I remained respectful, validated, looked her in the eyes, etc. I also made sure to end the conversation. I told her "have a good night" and then walked away to the living room. She then left a few seconds later.
One thing I noticed throughout the conversation is that she had a hard time looking me in the face/eyes. She would for a couple seconds and then start looking at the ground or the wall. I know it's most likely guilt. Also, I was dressed rather nice with jeans, a t-shirt, and my hair was done, clean shaven, etc. This is out of the ordinary for me, as when I'm home I'm usually in sweatpants or something comfortable and my hair isn't done. She looked rather disheveled and when I looked in her eyes I could tell she wasn't really happy.
But, that's not my problem right now. I'm focusing on me and it's really been helping. I didn't feel any negative or sad feelings when she left. It was strictly business. That is a huge step for me. I still love her, but detaching is making this process much easier.
This is the first time she's seen me in almost a month. I've lost almost 30lbs and am under 200lbs for the first time in 7 years. My face has slimmed considerably and I look great. I've been sticking to a strict diet of 1500 calories a day and doing minor exercise such as walking, pushups, situps, etc.
Something else I've been doing is being more decisive, confident, and shedding my Mr. Nice Guy. I have noticed a change in my interactions with people and they have been much more positive. My last few interactions with my wife I've been utilizing my new set of skills and I can tell a difference in how she reacts. When she first met me I was confident, decisive, etc. She loved that about me, however over the years I became much more of the "whatever you want honey" type of guys. I'm working on being that confident guy again.
Anyway, just wanted to post an update and journal our interactions.
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
Just wanted to journal a bit here and receive some feedback.
It appears my wife is beginning to ghost my son. She saw him last week and he asked her again a few days ago to hang out sometime this week. She told him they can definitely hang out this week. However, he's messaged her a few times and she hasn't been responding the last couple of days to him. It worries me that she might just be dropping off the face of the earth to all of us. My son really loves her and already has abandonment issues from his mom moving to South Carolina in August.
I know I'm only about a month and a half into this whole process and this can takes many months or even years to sort itself out. One positive thing I'd like to report is I've had several friends and family members compliment me and comment that "everyone always talks about changing; but you're really doing it." That made me feel great about the path I've chosen to take. I even feel better day to day now about myself.
I can't change how my wife thinks, but if I continue improving myself and GAL, the universe will deliver people to me who I deserve. Whether or not she's included in that isn't up to me.
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
I had another coaching session with Leni last night. I filled her in on what happened in the last week and she's pretty convinced my wife is having an affair. She instructed me to continue to remain friendly and not confront her as that will push her further away which is not what I want right now.
She wants me to reach out to my wife every once in a while as I would a friend - ask her how her day was or how she's doing. We did an exercise where I answered questions as my wife. It helped gain some insight and perspective into why my wife wants a divorce and is possibly seeking another person.
I'm continuing GAL and my 180s, the prospect of my wife having an affair hasn't changed anything for me as the possibility of it has always been in the back of my mind since she asked for a divorce. I'm actually having a few friends over tonight for dinner - the first time in a long while I've had a group of friends at my house.
Leni also wants me to begin writing what is essentially a last resort letter. She wants me to apologize for the things I did that lead to the breakdown of our marriage. She suggested that I write that I'm working on improving myself through books, coaching, and therapy - and that the changes are for myself because I know the man I want to be regardless of what happens with my wife and I.
She instructed me to NOT send the letter until I've reviewed it with her in our next session. My feelings for my wife haven't changed, I still love her and understand that an affair is a symptom of the problems in our marriage. I also understand that the chance of my wife coming back is very low, but at the end of everything I want to be able to say I tried everything I could.
If there is any chance of reconciliation I need to get my wife back on my side before discussing any of the things she did that contributed to our marital issues - which I understand can take many, many months.
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
Apothem, Hello, read some of your stitch it breaks my heart as she ghosting your son unfortunately some of them do some of the WAW take it out on the kids. My W did at first I was her unhappiness then she went in to saying I force the kids on her which we adopted together. My therapist thinks is another way for our W to hurt us. My W knows my children's are my weakness as any parents out here. So of course W uses mt s9 to control me and literally abandoned the 2 youngest. Things got bad to the point W yelled to kids I never wanted ya. All I can say is protect your son and let him know he hasn't done anything reassure him is not him. Take him to therapy because our kids already have abandonment issue from biological mom now there other mom left them too now they think they are bas kidd thank God I listen to my mom took them to therapy and she was right my children's thinks W left because of them they hate themselves but we been working on it and there confidence is coming back and they are smiling again. We as LBS loose focus on everything and can't see that are kid's are hurting more than we are. So hang close to your son he will become your Bestfriend and you will become his super hero because I know I became Super Dama. And my kids are my best friend and wouldn't have it no other way.
At BD Lesbian marriage Me39,W36 S9,D9,S8 adopted all three Together almost 10yrs Bomb Drop - April 2017 W movedout - May,2017 OW June,2017 Currently 2018 Me40, W38 S10,D10,S9
Yeah, it really is awful for my son. I started therapy for him about a week after we broke the news to him about the divorce. Her ghosting him is something we will talk about at his next session.
My DB Coach, Leni, suggested that my wife should be the one to tell my son that she no longer wishes to maintain contact. She said I shouldn't be the one to break that news and that it would be better coming from my wife. During my next coaching session I'm going to ask her how to approach the subject with my wife.
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
Question, Does she have legal guardian did she adopt him, Prepare yourself my friend your W will say, you force me on him, or I didn't have a choice or option she will blame everyone but herself. I remember my therapist said the same thing I told W you tell them you no longer want to be there mom btw W send me an email stating she didn't want s8 and d9 so that email is printed and out away in the black box. And W said So you don't want me in there life remember you said it and storm out once again she turned it around and played the victim. Is crazy that our W makes us feel like we losing our marbles. They have a way to turn things around.
One thing my therapist said. We as the other parent don't have to say much kids are very smart he will figure it out on his own as much it hurts let him let him text her or call W he will see it himself and he himself will decide my d9 honestly doesn't want to even say hi to W because for a good 6 months my d9 called her left messages of her begging W to call her saying mommy I miss you and as much I cried hearing her on the phone I let d9 figure it out on her own oneday my little girl said I dont care about W she is mean mom and selfish and all I did was stfu and listen to my daugther vent and held her when she needed hugs that's all we as there superhero can do. So just remember to tell your son am here when you wanna vent or cry. Just be there. Keep being his superhero.
At BD Lesbian marriage Me39,W36 S9,D9,S8 adopted all three Together almost 10yrs Bomb Drop - April 2017 W movedout - May,2017 OW June,2017 Currently 2018 Me40, W38 S10,D10,S9
She does not have legal guardian or anything with him.
I'm trying my best to be a superhero dad and I think I'm doing pretty well with it.
The one thing that hurts through all of this is that I still love and miss her. My heart keeps telling me to call her or see her, but my brain knows that's not the right thing to do. So I just continue with GAL to take my mind off things, but also because I've been discovering things about myself that have been hidden for years.
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
Apothem, Yes I believe you, I honestly believe all LBS on here truly are in love with W/H. I am going on on a Year on April. Right after spring break literally we had an amazing time and this time around W through me a birthday party and wrote me a beautiful letter. I now look back and ask myself was this W last hoorah with me and kids as she knew she was exiting this marriage well let's say the family because my W walk out on me and kids for the first 3 months W even went M-I-A I was scared to call her but was worry so Text are you alive W said only YES. And then to find out she was traveling with OW to places we plan.
Am so glad I found this forum I have to say it feels like home as crazy it sounds I feel like am not alone or going crazy with the things W do. I see all of us W/H have the same patterns. I thought my W was the only W that abandon her kids or pick which kid she wanted and when I seen someone on here did the same thing with 5 kids I felt like I was not alone.
There's day I feel my world is crumbling I feel like what's the purpose and days I hate W and other days I feel so sorry for W because I can't imagine the turmoil W going through I just wish I could save W. But I know I can't all I can do is protect my kids from this Allien.
When ever you feel so down or you feel your going crazy read on here. Before surgery I would run in the morning I stop running over 10yrs ago now am at it agin after that run I would read for like an hr on here and honestly it made me feel a little better but some days worse and on those days I won't read. Therapy has saved me too I go twice a week and of course church. When days got dark I would get on my knees and pray.
I know we don't wanna here this but our chances of our W coming back is very little now you have to live life without W and if she comes back just know is going be hard work. I honestly thought at the beginning I could take W back now I say I wouldn't I could not imagine living in fear W will do this again W and I never question when going out now I'll be living in fear. So I couldn't do that to me or kids.
Another way the therapist said to me was if you get back with W your abusing your kids I said how my therapist replied emotionally your letting your kids be abuse is like your allowing your W to abuse them when she put it that way I knew my job is only to protect them and thats my job now. So I guess when there is kids involved is no longer what we want we have to take care of the little people.
Hang in there hun. And remember A day at a time that's all we can do.
At BD Lesbian marriage Me39,W36 S9,D9,S8 adopted all three Together almost 10yrs Bomb Drop - April 2017 W movedout - May,2017 OW June,2017 Currently 2018 Me40, W38 S10,D10,S9
Like Marina7 said the best thing you can do now is protect your child and work on getting healthy. LBS have become sick emotionally because of BD and learning of an A.
While/when we work on ourselves we gain strength and can take logical approaches to our sitches.
I was listening to TD Jakes one day and he said GOD won't take away the pain. We can ask all we want, but the pain is a remainder, so we remember never to go down those roads again. The only way to lessen the pain and eventually heal from the pain is thru the pain.
He also said, life is full of messes, and to get to the progress we must go thru the process. Let the process work for you. It's no way around it. Pick your head up, open your chess and put one foot in front the other and take it one day at a time.
Trying to predict tomorrow is fruitless and worrying about yesterday is too painful, enjoy the present because it's a gift.
The one thing about BD is we as LBS get a lot of help and learn a lot about ourselves and learn we are not alone. We develop habits that Will last us a lifetime.
Onward and forward.
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Well, my curiosity got the best of me and I looked at her search history today on her old computer. Her account is still logged in so everything is current and up to date.
She's been looking up if an o+ woman can conceive a child with an o- man. She also searched how to permanently delete her Facebook and her Google Photos account (because we have a lot of stuff there together). It appears she's almost been living a double life and obviously hasn't been honest with me.
I have no idea what to do right now. I'm so full of emotions and torn down. All of those search queries are consistent with her previous ones. I feel so betrayed...I'm honestly panicking right now.
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
I have no idea what to do right now. I'm so full of emotions and torn down. All of those search queries are consistent with her previous ones. I feel so betrayed...I'm honestly panicking right now.
You said this the other day
I'm continuing GAL and my 180s, the prospect of my wife having an affair hasn't changed anything for me
So, I dont think this should really change any of your actions. Just try to stay calm and keep focused on what your goals are.
Yeah, I'm really trying. It was just a massive punch to the gut seeing her looking up conceiving a child, etc.
Sure. Im not denying that it [censored]. And it hurts for now. But also who knows. Maybe shes just looking at what kind of birth control she needs. I would say that you know now that shes in some kind of other relationship.
How does that change what your interactions will look like?
I'm not going to be Mr. Friendly anymore. She doesn't deserve it.
I just hate that you think you know someone, when they are someone entirely different. I can't comprehend how someone can do that to the person they say they love most.
Based off of all of her search history, this isn't a case of birth control. I wish it was, but sadly, that's not the truth.
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
So I identified the man she's having an affair with. It's one of the managers at her work, he's 43 years old and married. My wife told me a story where there were rumors of a relationship involving him and one of the younger girls circulating last year or so.
She brought it up a few months ago because she said a rumor started going around her store several months ago that my wife was his girlfriend because they always talked at work, etc. At that time, I was none the wiser.
She said she had to stop the rumors so their jobs would be secure. Nothing back then clicked, but it all makes sense now. I spent a considerable amount of time talking to my mom tonight who offered great advice on moving forward.
I'm going to continue GAL and my 180s and focusing on myself and my son. This does not alter my plan forward, other than the fact I will be filing for divorce ASAP to minimize any potential loss of property, etc.
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
It seems this guy has a history of doing this to younger women and just so happened to find himself to my wife. They've been in constant communication (she's on my phone plan) sending messages, pictures, etc. back and forth.
I have a feeling things aren't going to work out between them.
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
Apothem, Being here for almost 11months when a W/H suddenly say ILYBNILWY is because they met someone and if they work usually the om or ow is a co-worker. And trust me you going want to contact higher up your gonna wanna go to the job and confront them both your going want to contact his wife... your going want to do alot of things all I can say is.
No No No No... don't do anything don't give her the best of you. Protect yourself and your S and financially. You Already know the worse part she having an Affair now is time for you to say I won't be option B.
A DAY AT A day at a time
At BD Lesbian marriage Me39,W36 S9,D9,S8 adopted all three Together almost 10yrs Bomb Drop - April 2017 W movedout - May,2017 OW June,2017 Currently 2018 Me40, W38 S10,D10,S9
You might be right it won't work out. You have to get out of her way and make yourself the better option. When you start to become a person only a fool would leave you will start to confuse her. As long as you chase and stay in her way she can't think and have a chance to miss you.
Once you start to pull away she will have no choice but to see your changes. As long as you are chasing her you are pushing her away.
Remember the rubber band. As long as you chase her that rubber band stays lose, but the moment you start going in the other direction you start to create tension and she will have to snap back in your direction.
People arent perfect and sometimes gives in to their flesh. The flesh is weak. Start working on yourself and she will notice even if she dont tell you. Also when you pull back and stop chasing you can see the Sitch logically. You might find alot about your W you don't like. You also won't be worried about her other relationship lasting or not.
Romans 12:19, revenge belong too the Lord and not us. If you are Christian then I hope that verse can help you move forward. It helped me.
Try your hardest to feed the good wokf throughout this process. It will be hard but the more positive you are, the stronger you look. Don't don't anything that interferes with her other relationship it makes you look weak. You want to always look strong and confident.
I prayed a lot. I went too church and I start to feel the Lord's grace taking over My life. It felt amazing. I start to see all I had done wrong and I also knew exactly where I need to work on myself. Self reflection made me a stronger man.
Onward and forward
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
You might be right it won't work out. You have to get out of her way and make yourself the better option. When you start to become a person only a fool would leave you will start to confuse her. As long as you chase and stay in her way she can't think and have a chance to miss you.
I completely agree. I'm continuing to GAL and work on my 180s. I'm still working with therapist and a DB Coach.
Once you start to pull away she will have no choice but to see your changes. As long as you are chasing her you are pushing her away.
I started pulling away almost a month ago now. I don't initiate conversation with her and I keep it brief.
Remember the rubber band. As long as you chase her that rubber band stays lose, but the moment you start going in the other direction you start to create tension and she will have to snap back in your direction.
People arent perfect and sometimes gives in to their flesh. The flesh is weak. Start working on yourself and she will notice even if she dont tell you. Also when you pull back and stop chasing you can see the Sitch logically. You might find alot about your W you don't like. You also won't be worried about her other relationship lasting or not.
This is very true. I understand we are human and have weaknesses, etc. And who knows, I may completely change the way I think about my WW.
Romans 12:19, revenge belong too the Lord and not us. If you are Christian then I hope that verse can help you move forward. It helped me.
I am not religious, but I don't believe in revenge or petty acts. I have forgiven everyone in my life who has ever wronged me and this is no different. I don't lead a life of harboring resentment or hatred because it's not a healthy way to live.
Try your hardest to feed the good wokf throughout this process. It will be hard but the more positive you are, the stronger you look. Don't don't anything that interferes with her other relationship it makes you look weak. You want to always look strong and confident.
I completely agree, I would never do anything that interferes with her other relationship. I don't want to appear weak because I am not weak. I've been feeding the good a lot throughout this process and I have my family and friends thank for a lot of it. They've been incredibly supportive of my journey.
I prayed a lot. I went too church and I start to feel the Lord's grace taking over My life. It felt amazing. I start to see all I had done wrong and I also knew exactly where I need to work on myself. Self reflection made me a stronger man.
Self-reflection has indeed helped me become a better, stronger man. It has allowed me to acknowledge things about myself I didn't particularly like and wanted to change.
Onward and forward
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
I've been wondering if it would be wise to confront her after the divorce is final. What I mean is, ask her after we leave the courthouse if she has anything to tell me about the circumstances of our divorce. If she plays dumb, I'll tell her I know about OM and everything. I wouldn't reveal specific details, but just let her know I'm aware of what's going on.
Any advice?
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
I've been wondering if it would be wise to confront her after the divorce is final. What I mean is, ask her after we leave the courthouse if she has anything to tell me about the circumstances of our divorce. If she plays dumb, I'll tell her I know about OM and everything. I wouldn't reveal specific details, but just let her know I'm aware of what's going on.
If you want to let her know, why wait until after the D? What are your goals with doing that after the D? What are you trying to achieve? What do you want her to say? I think if you want to show her a person only a fool would leave, tell her before or don't tell her at all. Let her see you walk out of the court room with your head held high and chest open, the back of your head and body leaving her life 4 ever as a S will be the last thing she see from you on that day, don't look back.
If you try to initiate a convo about an A, after D it will make you look weak. IMO.
If it were me, I would let her know before the D and tell her if that's what she wants than you wont stand in the way of her happiness and move on. That convo will only suck you into a convo that will reveal answers you probably don't want to hear. And will having you asking questions that make you look like you are still pursuing her.
Onward and forward
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
the fact I will be filing for divorce ASAP to minimize any potential loss of property, etc.
Have you discussed this with a lawyer? Is there a reason you are pushing so hard for a divorce?
In my opinion, these kinds of affairs are like being gravely ill. There are chemical issues in your W's head related to the feelings of love brought about by OM. Would you divorce her if she were sick? or in a coma?
I dont mean to imply that she is blameless here. Or that she is acting outside of her free will. Im asking that you consider what marriage as an institution means to you. What does divorce gain for you? Are there other ways to achieve the security financially that you need?
Have you read DR? How much have you considered the pitfalls of divorce?
I've read DR and have been working with a DB coach. The pitfalls of divorce are truly awful and it isn't something I want, but I feel to protect myself and my son it might be my best option.
I would never divorce her if she was sick, etc. and I understand her feelings are likely brought on by her being unhappy in the marriage for the last several months.
I take marriage more seriously than anything in this world. I really don't want a divorce, but I'm unsure of what to do. Initially I was told to not confront her about it, but now I'm receiving conflicting information. I like the idea more of telling her before the divorce so she can think about things and if it's the direction she really wants to go. At this point, I'm not sure there's anything she can say that I don't want to hear. She told me when she dropped the bomb she didn't want kids with me because she's afraid they won't look like her. Also, because I have a kid already the experience wouldn't be special. I argued both points, but it was fruitless.
I have a coaching session tonight with my DB coach, I'll be sure to bring this up to them.
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
I had a very insightful coaching session last night. I've come to the conclusion of not confronting my wife about the affair. Instead, I'm going to carry on and keep doing what I'm doing. My wife came by my house yesterday while I was at work with her parents and took all of her remaining items...and if I'm being honest it felt sort of liberating. There are no more physical reminders of her in the house anymore. It's my own space again.
I did some more investigating and it looks like my wife is moving full steam ahead on filing for the divorce. I'm not going to let it slow me down in my journey and I also feel like it will be liberating, despite being painful.
I did let my coach know that at this point in time I would be open to reconciliation with my wife, despite knowing it's a bumpy road to recovery. The coach told me these things do take time so patience is key. They also broke down the various stages of an affair, the high obtained from having one, and how the bubble eventually bursts and they come back down to Earth. At that point, one of two things happen - they realize they had someone good and try to win them back, or, they are generally too ashamed to go back and they move forward.
So, as joejoe says, "Onward and forward"!
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
Sounds like you are in a better place today. Also, don't hide from the pain. The only way to heal is to feel the pain. Let it out in however way you let grief and anguish out. Holding in the pain will not do you any good.
I let out my pain out over the course of a few weeks. Now I can't cry even if I want to.
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Sounds like you are in a better place today. Also, don't hide from the pain. The only way to heal is to feel the pain. Let it out in however way you let grief and anguish out. Holding in the pain will not do you any good.
I let out my pain out over the course of a few weeks. Now I can't cry even if I want to.
Yeah, I definitely am feeling the pain. It hurts, I acknowledge the emotion and embrace it. I'm not one to harbor my emotions as I know it's not good for me.
I am in a much better place now than I've been in these last almost 2 months, much of that comes from acknowledging and accepting what happened.
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
Hi Apothem, I saw you wave at me on another thread and I've read about your situation. Really sorry for you and your son. I agree with the advice your DB coach has given you. Currently, I don't see much else you could be doing......without making things worse.
Do you feel getting the D will help you move on? Many people believe they can't detach emotionally unless/until they are legally divorced. I suppose everyone is a little different, but so far, I don't remember anyone saying that it helped with their emotional pain.
Your coach is correct about these things taking time. I can't even remember right now, but I think my affair lasted somewhere between 9 - 12 months. It may sound strange to hear me say I can't remember, but I don't think about the affair anymore......except when I make reference to it on the board. I don't think about the OM. There was a time, right after I ended the A, I wondered if I would ever be able to get him out of my head. So you see, things can turn back around, but it definitely takes time.
Everyone has to make their own decision to hold back getting a D, or go through with it. You know your own heart & mind, and if you feel you could never get past the betrayal and forgive her for the affair.......then getting a D is probably best. It takes a lot of forgiveness. And some WW's have a lot of stubborn pride that holds them back from being humble and remorseful. When that's the case, they don't want to do the work that's required to piece the M back together again. They prefer to act as if the A never took place. But that's sweeping it under the rug, and the M can't heal. I call it false pride, b/c they (WW) cling to old resentments and use them to hold over the H's head, especially if he blames her for the A. So, she has to let go of all that old stuff that she's carried around for a long time. Forgiveness has to come from both spouses, before any progress is accomplished in the MR.
BTW, she is responsible for having an A. She needs to accept responsibility for the A before real reconciliation takes place. Don't let her put that blame on you (should she try), and don't you accept blame for it. You have your own faults for your part of the breakdown in the MR, but only the affair partners are responsible for their actions.
Hold your head up, but don't become self-righteous. I could understand, after having three women to cheat on you, but I hope this experience won't harden your heart.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I really appreciate you taking the time to review my situation and offer advice. I've replied below in red.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Hi Apothem, I saw you wave at me on another thread and I've read about your situation. Really sorry for you and your son. I agree with the advice your DB coach has given you. Currently, I don't see much else you could be doing......without making things worse.
I agree here, I think the DB coach knows my situation well enough and what has been working and what hasn't. She suggested I continue to be friendly, but not a door mat. To continue no contact and only respond.
Do you feel getting the D will help you move on? Many people believe they can't detach emotionally unless/until they are legally divorced. I suppose everyone is a little different, but so far, I don't remember anyone saying that it helped with their emotional pain.
Personally, I don't think the D will help me move on. I began the process of detaching as soon as I found this board and started reading DR around a month ago or so. I've also been seeing two therapists in addition to the DB coach and reading quite a bit of self-help books (The Road Less Traveled, No More Mr. Nice Guy, The 5 Love Languages, The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work, and Codependent No More).
I've really started to come into my own and it feels so liberating and refreshing. I've been going out and socializing A LOT more than I ever did. Oddly enough, I've found myself to be the life of the party (something I used to be, but have toned down a lot). I've also been receiving quite a bit of positive female attention, largely in part because of how I've been carrying myself - confident, back straight, chest out, head up, etc. It also helps that I've been exhibiting far greater self control when it comes to eating. I've lost 30 lbs since the bomb drop. I feel like I'm back to my old self, the person my wife initially fell in love with, except this time around it's an even better version of who I was. This process has taught me a lot about myself and helped me realize and acknowledge flaws that I have and how to address them.
Your coach is correct about these things taking time. I can't even remember right now, but I think my affair lasted somewhere between 9 - 12 months. It may sound strange to hear me say I can't remember, but I don't think about the affair anymore......except when I make reference to it on the board. I don't think about the OM. There was a time, right after I ended the A, I wondered if I would ever be able to get him out of my head. So you see, things can turn back around, but it definitely takes time.
My coach has definitely made it clear that it takes time. Typically it's around 6-9 months before the high goes away. That doesn't necessarily mean the affair ends, but they start to see the OM for what they really are. She informed me the typical affair lasts 6-12 months largely because they are built on lies and deceit and not true values like their marriage was built on (at least in most cases).
Everyone has to make their own decision to hold back getting a D, or go through with it. You know your own heart & mind, and if you feel you could never get past the betrayal and forgive her for the affair.......then getting a D is probably best. It takes a lot of forgiveness. And some WW's have a lot of stubborn pride that holds them back from being humble and remorseful. When that's the case, they don't want to do the work that's required to piece the M back together again. They prefer to act as if the A never took place. But that's sweeping it under the rug, and the M can't heal. I call it false pride, b/c they (WW) cling to old resentments and use them to hold over the H's head, especially if he blames her for the A. So, she has to let go of all that old stuff that she's carried around for a long time. Forgiveness has to come from both spouses, before any progress is accomplished in the MR.
I've made the decision to hold back on filing. The ball is in her court to file, which I'm pretty confident she will be doing soon (within the next couple of week). I know I could get past the affair and the betrayal and forgive her, but she has to be willing to show remorse. She has to show me through actions, not just words that she is truly sorry and wants to work on our relationship. I did not force her to have an affair, nobody did. It was a conscious decision she made. However, she also has to be able to forgive me for my contributions to the marriage breaking down.
I've also come up with conditions she must meet for reconciliation, and they are as follows:
[list] [*]She must get an STD test [*]She must have a proper pregnancy test at an OBGYN [*]She must agree to MC [*]She must agree to IC [*]She must cut off ALL contact with the OM. Which in this case would require her to find a new job OR relocate to a different store
If she will not accept those terms, I can't believe she is truly remorseful and willing to work on our marriage. To me, it would just mean I was option B - which I am not. I did talk to my DB coach regarding my terms and she thinks they are fair given the situation.
BTW, she is responsible for having an A. She needs to accept responsibility for the A before real reconciliation takes place. Don't let her put that blame on you (should she try), and don't you accept blame for it. You have your own faults for your part of the breakdown in the MR, but only the affair partners are responsible for their actions.
As I mention above, I completely agree. I will not accept blame for the affair. I will absolutely accept blame for my contributions to the breakdown of our marriage, but never for her actions.
Hold your head up, but don't become self-righteous. I could understand, after having three women to cheat on you, but I hope this experience won't harden your heart.
I've never held my head higher in life than I am right now. It's a great feeling having my confidence back along with addressing my codependency. Those two things alone have made me realize my self-worth, something I questioned frequently in my last few relationships.
I actually performed an exercise with one of my therapists where we wrote down the character and personality traits of the last three women I've been with. There was definitely some overlap which helped me realize I was not the issue. In this specific case, in addition to the traits my wife shared with those women, she also lacks maturity and perspective along with having a VERY difficult childhood (I won't go into detail, but it is among some of the worst things I've ever heard) that she never dealt with. She refused to go to therapy and wouldn't even tell her own mother.
Knowing all of this has made me realize I can't fix others (my codependency, doh!), but I can fix myself. I've had numerous friends and family members who have known me for a long time compliment my changes, despite me never telling them I was making them. It feels good knowing they notice the changes because it shows me that what I'm doing is working.
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
Whoops, forgot to highlight the bottom response and I added a bit more:
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Hold your head up, but don't become self-righteous. I could understand, after having three women to cheat on you, but I hope this experience won't harden your heart.
I've never held my head higher in life than I am right now. It's a great feeling having my confidence back along with addressing my codependency. Those two things alone have made me realize my self-worth, something I questioned frequently in my last few relationships.
My heart has not hardened, although, I will admit for the first few weeks after my wife dropped the bomb I thought I would never love again, largely because I didn't want to be vulnerable again. But, I have since overcome those feelings. I believe we learn from our failures, not our successes, and this has been a very eye-opening learning experience.
I actually performed an exercise with one of my therapists where we wrote down the character and personality traits of the last three women I've been with. There was definitely some overlap which helped me realize I was not the issue. In this specific case, in addition to the traits my wife shared with those women, she also lacks maturity and perspective along with having a VERY difficult childhood (I won't go into detail, but it is among some of the worst things I've ever heard) that she never dealt with. She refused to go to therapy and wouldn't even tell her own mother.
Knowing all of this has made me realize I can't fix others (my codependency, doh!), but I can fix myself. I've had numerous friends and family members who have known me for a long time compliment my changes, despite me never telling them I was making them. It feels good knowing they notice the changes because it shows me that what I'm doing is working.
I'm confident in saying that I'm not self-righteous, at least not anymore. I used to always have to be right and believed myself morally superior to others because of stupid things like never having been drunk, never doing drugs or smoking, never cheating, etc. I've since gained A LOT of perspective through therapy, counseling, coaching, and talking with family and friends. I've come to understand that sometimes things happen in life that you can't control or in some cases resist. That doesn't mean you are any less of a person than me. At the end of the day, I believe everything happens for a reason and the universe will deliver those to me who belong around me.
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
I'm meeting her tonight at our cell phone provider's store so we can switch her onto her own plan. She's also paying me for last month's and this month's phone bill, car insurance, and health insurance.
In the back of my head I want to confront her so badly, but I know there's no point, it won't accomplish anything. I almost don't want to see her because of the betrayal I feel. I know I can forgive her in the future for the betrayal if she was remorseful, etc., but at the same time as each day passes I think of more and more things about her that just aren't good qualities.
Her lack of maturity, perspective, ability to deal with her own issues/problems, among other things irk me. However, if she can prove that she has grown as a person and is willing to address those things I may reconsider. This is due to the chemistry we had, the things we shared, and my overall happiness - I was genuinely happy when we were together (aside from some of my behaviors due to my codependency).
I know right now none of this matters because if/when reconciliation happens it won't be for quite a while. A lot can happen in that time frame. I could meet someone or realize my feelings for my wife have dwindled because I'm able to rationally assess our relationship now that I don't have an investment in it.
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
If you have co-dependency traits, then that could answer why you are drawn to women who seem as if they need your help, or to be rescued. The damsel in distress.......whether it's their own immaturity, unresolved issues from their past, some threat or fear in their current situation, etc.
I have a sibling that was M three times. All three men abused her. All three had similar looks, personalities, etc. All three lived lifestyles opposite of the church-going life she knew while growing up. Our family members could see the resemblance in all three men. When I pointed it out to her, she agreed. However, if she ever knew why she was drawn to them and ended with unhealthy MR's, she never admitted it.
I said that^^^^ to say we are often blind to what seems obvious to those who do not have emotions attached, or the same psychological makeup. I applaud you for the massive effort you are putting into making yourself an improved individual. There is much hope for people who will admit they need to do something or to get help. But those who stubbornly refuse to read a book or talk to a therapist........are very frustrating to me.
I encourage you to continue doing what is working for you.
(((big hugs)))
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you sandi, that means a lot to me I don't want to be stuck in the same cycle and I acknowledge I have things I need to work on.
Last night went just fine, it hurt seeing her a little, but I essentially paid her no mind. I was short with her, but not unfriendly. She kept looking over at me, but I continued to avert my gaze elsewhere unless it was a question. The last thing she saw of me was me saying goodbye and walking away.
Those are very big 180s for me, especially because I was a doormat for much of our relationship, which isn't really me.
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
Just providing a quick update. My detachment process is going VERY well. I've been loving life and the person that was buried inside has finally come out. I'm naturally social and extroverted, but for the last several years I started becoming more introverted to match her personality.
I've been having a great time hanging out with friends and family and going out. I'm not sure if I stated this before, but she has completely removed all physical presence of herself from my house. It definitely helped with my healing process. I've been doing very well in IC and reading more than ever.
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
Journaling: Nothing has really changed in the last couple of weeks. Still living my life, doing my thing. I'm still open to reconciliation, however I've been taking a rational look at our relationship and if I've been missing the person or the memories. I'm definitely missing the memories, but I also miss the person. I don't miss some of her behaviors, but I'm sure she could say the same about me. Neither of us have behaviors that we couldn't address.
All in all, I'm in a good place right now and optimistic for my future.
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
I've been having a rough last few days. She's been on my mind constantly. I'm still pressing forward with my life and I understand these things will happen. I'm not going to heal this quickly after spending the last 8 years together. Just thought I would journal it here for others to see my journey.
Things do get better. I'm in a significantly better place now than I was even last month. Don't give up even through the rough patches. Things will fall into place in the way they're meant to, with or without her.
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
Just posting to let everyone know I'm still here. I'm still going to therapy weekly and continuing my GAL and 180s. I haven't heard from my WW almost at all aside from a text exchange a couple of weeks ago.
She came by the house to pick up her mail and saw my electric bill was overdue. She paid half the bill and text me to let me know. I told her I appreciated it, but I had already paid half and was paying the other half on Friday and that the bill was misdelivered next door. I let her know she can skip her next insurance payment since it will equal out. She then said "Don't worry about it. It's not an issue. If you ever do need help in the future though, I am here."
I told her, "Thank you for the offer, it means a lot. I'll be ok, I just forgot because the bill was misdelivered."
She followed up with "I understand, I'm glad you're doing well then" and that's where the conversation ended. We haven't talked since, and that was in the beginning of April.
To me this comes off as helping because she feels guilty about leaving. She still doesn't know that I'm aware of the OM and the A. I still miss her everyday, but I'm finding it does get easier.
I recently just joined a bowling league with two of my best friends and that has helped me quite a bit. I've also been adventuring and doing things I've always wanted to do.
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
Just posting an update. I had another call with my DB coach last week and they're confident that it's not a matter of if, but rather when my wife snaps back to reality and decides to come back. I'm a patient person and it isn't holding up anything else in my life by waiting. That being said, I'm continuing to GAL and live my life day by day.
My wife and I haven't communicated at all since the electric bill conversation. My son informed me she stopped by the house today to get her mail. She said hi to him and smiled. My son told me he was very excited to see her which makes this painful for me. I know how much he loves her and can only imagine how much he hurts. I try to get him to talk about it and we've since started looking for a new therapist as he doesn't open up with the current one.
Anyway, just wanted to provide an update to anyone who has been following my story.
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
I don't want to be stuck in the same cycle and I acknowledge I have things I need to work on.