FIRST POST! I was so glad to know this community exists. The support I have seen across a tons of forums has been insightful, encouraging and keeps hope alive. After a few weeks reading (alot!), I am ready to share my sitch and look forward to advice, insight, encouragement and whatever else this journey brings. I realize we are all in unique situations, but united by a common thread.
We are T 10, M 8 w/ D(5) and S(3). About 3 weeks ago my wife dropped the bomb. Last few years, esp last 2 years+ she's had enough. She said she thinks we should separate and would both be happier if we were apart. She cited her unhappiness with how I regularly treat her and questioned if I even love or like her (ouch!). She cried a lot. No major one-time issues led to it -- just worn down and made to feel terrible time after time. Constant criticism, feeling she can do nothing right and that every move she makes will be critiqued. Me drinking regularly at night and not spending time together was the icing on the cake. She felt like she has to filter words and actions to avoid it. Every time she mentioned it or corrected me -- in the heat of the moment or during more formal discussions -- I found reasons to justify it. Those moments generally ended in an apology from me (likely not truly sincere since I felt I was the one "always apologizing") or often just both of us sweeping it under the rug. That night of the bomb drop, I was upset, angry, confused, helpless, hopeless. I was mainly sad and scared - for a multitude of reasons. This time there were life-altering consequences and honestly, because I know she is right. My attitude has been terrible, the things I have said over time were hurtful, I wasted too much time drinking and neglecting my M. I have known these issues existed for a long time and told myself I would be different many times; however, I never realized the wedge I was driving nor did I truly think I could be different. I somehow thought that when things got back to 'normal' that it was all fine. Or that my helpfulness with kids, chores and other things would somehow make up for it (stupid!). This time was for real. W is so giving, smart, helpful and kind. Our kids are great, money is fine.. How could I screw this up?!
That night & next day I thought A LOT. I love my wife. I like my wife. I had to act and fast. I went into survival move, and got to work ("fix it all, right?). I realized my faults and I owned it all. I acknowledged all of her concerns, apologized for putting us all in this situation and promised changes immediately. That was met with: "I dont think I can go back there with you", "so much wasted time," "want kids to grow up seeing love," "How could I ever trust that you'll be a partner," and "why should I be the test case for promised 'changes,'" "if you love me like you say, how could you ever treat me like that for so long."
I dug deep and started 180s the next morning (before ever finding the book) in no particular order: - No drinks since that first conversation. Done and actually easier than I thought it would be. - Started asking about her day - Doing small things to reduce stress in our house (more chores, prepping dinner) - Ensured all conversations were positive, or at least neutral. No more negativity. - Asking her opinion and listening to the answer -Saying "Yes" more instead of an immediate "No" - Simple things too: saying please, thank you, good idea (EASY STUFF!)
I intend on these being the new norm and reading, thinking and convincing myself this is the new me. Trying to be patient with myself and of course with her. These 3 weeks have felt like 3 years.
I knew these would not Flip her overnight, and am trying to take the long game and stay patient. I have kept my 180s in tact since and am trying to identify more (suggestions appreciated). I broke a few of Sandi's rules early on by breaking down in front of her. Not begging/pleading just emotionally out of my head. She comforted me, cried also and said she didnt want to hurt me. She thinks I am/was confusing my love of kids with love of her. I am not 100% sure what that means. Our family is 4 and it is best when its all together. I told I do love her but was emotionally immature, selfish and intend on being the man I should be for her. Better man. Better husband. Better father. Every day.
We had another R talk a few days after the first and we both cried more. She maintained that separation was best. The R talks hit an impasse when I have no good answer for the question: "If you loved me like you say, how could you treat me like X for so long." How can I answer that?? It never hit home until the thought of losing her was on the table. The thought of being without her and splitting our family is the worst pain I have known.
We stayed in the same bed for the first week. We went to bed at the same time, watched TV and had brief, but kind conversations. The elephant was in the room, but it was nice to have pleasant time together. It made me realize how much I miss spending time with just her. At week's end, it became too much for her. At the close of that week we had another R talk (she initiated). At one point during the R talk I read some notes I had been taking (things learned) to let her know I am taking it seriously and am committed (another Sandi rule violation, I think?). She's noticed the changes and said it makes her more angry. Actually "makes my blood boil" is the quote. She said: "How could I just flip the switch and be a good partner overnight?", "Why did I let her get so far away?" and again, "If you really love me, how could you treat me like xx for so long?" And the dagger: "I want the chance to be in a happy relationship and I want that for you too." I did not know about validating at the time, but I did continue to say I am sorry, I understand that I have done damage over time, do not expect her to trust me now and realize that my words dont carry much weight. It ended with me re-emphasizing my commitment to be a better man and husband. Oddly, though angry, she said the first few R talks have made her feel more close to me than she has in a long time. That night she moved upstairs, because I told her I wouldnt. She wanted space. My reasons for not moving were not to bully or hold ground, but to not be seen as taking steps away from the R or the Family. She understood, but was not happy about it. I told her I understand the need for space.
At certain points in this first week or so we discussed counseling, but unsure how to go about it (together, individually, how to choose one, childcare, etc). At that stage (not now I hope! -- read on)her goal was to figure out on to move on separately, mine was to get help on keeping my goals in tact and saving my M and family. How could we go to a counselor together without both being on the same page? Would that be a bad idea, or perhaps beneficial? Did she even want to go? I went ahead and set one up with a marriage counselor. I told her about it and said she is welcome to join, but I plan to go to work on myself to ask for help making the changes stick and ask advice on more I could be making. When she is ready, she is welcome. Its the first thing she asked about that night after kids were asleep. I kept it brief, said it was a get to know you session, but felt good for the next one I'd set up for next week (this week). She asked if IC recommended she join and I told her IC would be happy to see us both if that is what she wanted. She said she would consider it, asked the name and wanted to do some of her own research because she thinks it would be good for her too. I said 'that works for me!"
That was just the first 10 days!
The last week and a half has been touch and go. I have read and learned TONS more about giving her the space she needs, not initiating R conversations, validating, continuing 180s like its my JOB (adding where I can) and above all, just being pleasant. Its amazing what a clear/sober head, regular workouts and a positive attitude can do! I have mixed up routines as much as possible with kids schedules. I have connected with some friends I have not seen lately. Of course she is the HUGE missing piece), but I realize I cant control her feelings, only be better and use my opportunities to showcase them subtly. Most days I feel focused and driven to be better. I certainly slip into my wandering mind and feel hopeless daily, but I have found good things to read and lucky to have a few good friends/family for support. I am trying to keep it together, but its hard. I have seen the hot/cold almost daily. We've had some good talks, house has been pleasant, more pleases and thank yous (both ways), goodnights, a few smiles and even a couple short laughs-- but certainly no breakthroughs. I engage when she initiates and try my best to backoff otherwise. Sometimes when I come home I can see she's been upset or cried, but I have pulled back on asking why -- to give her space to process and 'feel'. I insisted she take our room one night to enjoy weekend morning snuggles with D & S (precious times) after seeing her upset the morning before. She took it and once both kids were up, she called to invite me in. Felt like a small win, but I know she is committed to our kids happiness so I joined, enjoyed and added it to my hope bucket.
Last night I screwed up. Not terrible since it led to no fighting or overall mood change in the house. I'll save the details for later, but in the morning I just owned it, apologized and said its been an emotional period and last night was an insecure moment for me. This led to a brief R talk. She asked about my next IC meeting and if she should join. I told her again that IC was happy to see us both if she wanted. She said this holding pattern is hard to live in and she wants to take steps forward. I didnt ask what forward meant, because she started crying. I was not expecting it, but had been practicing my validations the day before:
W - This situation is just so hard. M - I can tell you have been upset.
W - I was so resolved to splitting, but now you are attentive and kind, I just dont know what to think anymore. I just dont know if I can see you the same way anymore M - I understand why you feel that way
W - I dont want to wake up in a few months/years in the same situation. M - That makes sense. I dont want that either (Pursuing?)
**There may have been a few more, but its so hard to stay present while also keeping the right mindset.
On to my questions: - Given the sitch, any other suggested 180s? - Ive read that emotion, any emotion is good. Emotionless is bad. Agreed? - There's times I feel she might bring up the R and I get feelings it wont be good so Ive tried to get out of the house to avoid it. Is this a good idea or is any R talk initiated by W someting I should welcome to allow for validation? I am trying to buy time for 180s to show and build trust, so I am sometimes afraid of how a R talk will go. Some are starting to set and have a positive effect, so I do not want to go too deep at this stage. Is this the right approach? - One complaint is that we lacked affection/touching but I am pretty sure she cant receive that right now. Should I eliminate it from my thoughts? When is the right time to give that to her? Its hard to stand there blankly, even looking concerned when she is crying. Is that ball 100% in her court? - I have told her, so perhaps its a moot point, but how do I let her know the bedroom door is always open? She does not have to feel confined to a guest room. - For counseling, based on last R talk, I am starting to get the feeling that its a good time for us to sit with someone together. She seems to be waffling, so perhaps a third voice will help us build on positives over the last few weeks and get some new techniques/tasks to work on together -- start piecing. I am also afraid that she'll latch onto something bad and erase the progress that has been made. - FINALLY - I have a potential biz trip in less than 2 weeks that will last 10-14 days. I tried putting it off, but it has to happen. Part of me thinks it might be good. By that point I'll have been 180-ing for about a month and the distance might create some fondness. The other part of me knows that I could be in a totally different boat in 10 days and traveling could be a big set back. Any ideas or tips here? Assuming the trip has to happen, should I maintain the course as it seems to be working, should I discuss how we'll communicate while I am gone (I at least have to see kids), should I set any different goals knowing I will be out of sight for that period??
So much for keeping it brief!! I appreciate all readers and/or feedback. This group has done great things for a lot of folks so though its a place I never planned to be, I am glad its here. xStayStrongX
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
On to my questions: - One complaint is that we lacked affection/touching but I am pretty sure she cant receive that right now. Should I eliminate it from my thoughts? When is the right time to give that to her? Its hard to stand there blankly, even looking concerned when she is crying. Is that ball 100% in her court? - I have told her, so perhaps its a moot point, but how do I let her know the bedroom door is always open? She does not have to feel confined to a guest room. - FINALLY - I have a potential biz trip in less than 2 weeks that will last 10-14 days. I tried putting it off, but it has to happen. Part of me thinks it might be good. By that point I'll have been 180-ing for about a month and the distance might create some fondness. The other part of me knows that I could be in a totally different boat in 10 days and traveling could be a big set back. Any ideas or tips here? Assuming the trip has to happen, should I maintain the course as it seems to be working, should I discuss how we'll communicate while I am gone (I at least have to see kids), should I set any different goals knowing I will be out of sight for that period??
To all the above, she knows that you want to make this work, you do not need to remind her. If she’s crying, she knows you’ll accept a hug if she needs it; if she wants to move in the MBR, she knows you want her there; As for the trip, go on the trip if needed, tell her you would like to communicate with the kids and ask what would be most convenient for her, she call you and give them the phone, you call at certain times, etc. Don’t mention you two communicating, she knows you want to and you’ll just be pressuring her.
Originally Posted By: Flippr
- Given the sitch, any other suggested 180s?
join an AA support group.
Originally Posted By: Flippr
- There's times I feel she might bring up the R and I get feelings it wont be good so Ive tried to get out of the house to avoid it. Is this a good idea or is any R talk initiated by W someting I should welcome to allow for validation? I am trying to buy time for 180s to show and build trust, so I am sometimes afraid of how a R talk will go. Some are starting to set and have a positive effect, so I do not want to go too deep at this stage. Is this the right approach?
That’s avoidance and it’s not going to get you anywhere. If she wants to talk, you need to be there, listen and validate;
Originally Posted By: Flippr
- For counseling, based on last R talk, I am starting to get the feeling that its a good time for us to sit with someone together. She seems to be waffling, so perhaps a third voice will help us build on positives over the last few weeks and get some new techniques/tasks to work on together -- start piecing. I am also afraid that she'll latch onto something bad and erase the progress that has been made.
This would have been better done when she asked you if she should go. Have you asked the counselor what they think? Just tell her that you asked the counselor on their opinion of her joining and they said “…”. Tell her the date and time of the next appointment and that she is welcome to join in.
You didn’t bring it up, but are there any other “weird” things going on? Out more than usual, hiding phone from you, texting/phone calls more often than usual?
M - 9 1/2 years 5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA 10/31/16 - We sold house 01/10/18 - D Finalized
She said "if you love me like you say, how could you ever treat me like that for so long."
May I ask - I have this same question of my H. Why do people (men it seems like more often) do this? Why do people know their spouse is suffering but they just let it go on when they could do something differently? I am genuinely interested in understanding this mindset as it seems to be so prevalent and destructive to others.
She said "if you love me like you say, how could you ever treat me like that for so long."
May I ask - I have this same question of my H. Why do people (men it seems like more often) do this? Why do people know their spouse is suffering but they just let it go on when they could do something differently? I am genuinely interested in understanding this mindset as it seems to be so prevalent and destructive to others.
Because right now he is only thinking about himself. His mind is not thinking of you at all.
