Husband gone for second time - 3

[NicoleR]

Jim, it is really helpful to know that others have experienced the same feelings. It happened again today at the beach. My daughter and I were literally the only ones who were not a husband / wife or boyfriend / girlfriend couple aside from a few teenage girls. I can't wait to at least get out of this city where everyone lives what appears to be a perfect married life. At least in big major cities there's more diversity. Regarding my husband coming back, that's too much of a dream-come-true to imagine such an option, but no, I definitely wouldn't take him back like before. I'm moving to our old city and if he wants to follow when he gets a job there and meet for weekly counseling and try a few dates or family outings then we could see what happens. Even then there'd have to be a commitment to long-term therapy and on my end it would be more of a business deal if we got back together. That might include the security of keeping our family together, the financial stability of two incomes, and at least some semblance of a husband. There'll never be the love and trust that there was in the beginning, not after knowing everything I know now.

Sara, documenting is easy because he basically stopped coming the third week of December. The visits that do happen are only around 15 minutes one or two times per week. I live in FL. I'm not sure about state alimony laws but he will be paying at least temporary alimony. I'm not unnecessarily worried about the financial part because almost everything works in my favor regarding this divorce. My husband won't have a choice. My husband stayed at home for over five years studying for the USLME's while I worked full-time before he got a residency, I sponsored him to immigrate here, I've done 100% of child-care while working multiple consulting jobs...now my husband is making good money and I'm not. So at least this is one positive.

All, tonight my husband stopped by to see our daughter for the usual 15 minutes. On the way out he said he'll stop by tomorrow so "we can talk about everything." For the first time in over a month he didn't have that angry hostile tone to his voice. I asked him if he found a lawyer yet and he said no but he heard about one. I asked "aren't you excited to move on with the process?" He said no, not really. I asked if everything's good on his end regarding our move up North on April 1st. He said yes but it's going to be very stressful for him not seeing our daughter, that he needs to figure out where he's going to live, and he's so busy and so tired...

It was the first time in over a month that my husband said a few conversational words to me. It was the first time that he sounded semi-normal. That's not to say anything has changed regarding the divorce but perhaps reality is setting in and it's not the happy fantasy my husband has been living this past month where all his problems will be solved the second he gets divorced. Perhaps he's waking up just a little. I don't expect him to call off the divorce because now that he tasted his freedom and the fun of having a 26 year old girlfriend there's no way he'd come back any time soon.

[Jim1234]

Nicole, I noticed a few things in your post. First of all, your tone is far more positive. Secondly, you no longer sound desperate. While missing the past, you are also thinking about the future, and steps YOU need to take to improve YOUR future, whether it includes him, or not. It also sounds like some of the luster has worn off, and he's seeing the reality he's created. These are all really good.

As far as everyone appearing to have the perfect married life, you know that's not true, right? A good portion of those "happy people" have big problems. Their problems are just different than yours. All I'm saying is don't compare your situation to the illusion you've created in your head. That's not fair to you.

[NicoleR]

Jim, yes I know most don't have a perfect life, but at the beach yesterday and many places I go, even Target, I see happy couples holding hands and looking so relaxed and talking to each other like best friends. That's how it was with my husband the first few years and I was so happy. I really loved my husband with all my heart. So to see all those couples knowing they're feeling such happiness is hard because this is the worst I've ever felt in my life and it's hard to see those things everywhere. As if Christmas wasn't bad enough now Valentine's day is coming. It just never ends.

I don't know if I was more positive but finding out about my husband's 26 year old girlfriend and their luxury trip to Dubai changed a lot of things for me. Now I know there's a pattern to my husband's behavior...when he's angry at me, stops spending time with our daughter, disappears, etc., it means he's found someone else. I will feel better if, or when, he gets out of this stage and can at least talk normally again without acting so hostile. Those 30 seconds last night were so nice. It was like he died and came back from the dead just for those few seconds. I already feel horrible again thinking about the divorce and how I'm going to survive. I'm looking forward to moving in April but I started to fear how I'll be able to work full-time. I don't think I can because the commute time and eight hours per day of working is greater than the number of hours the preschools / daycares stay open. I guess in most cases the parents trade off with drop off's and pick-up's but I won't have any help. So I'm not sure what I'll do. I'll have to hope for a miracle that someone will let me work seven hours per day or that I can find a flexible consulting job.

[NicoleR]

I sent the message too soon...

No I'm not desperate but still struggling to make it. I know I have to work and be solely responsible for my daughter and happiness or depression is secondary to just surviving. I'd be the happiest person in the world if my husband regrets what he did even if we can't stay married, just to know that those eleven years I sacrificed for him meant something, but unfortunately it's more likely he'll feel sorry for himself than for me.

I don't know. It was a very unlikely chain of events with the hurricane evacuation and my illness after my husband left in September. IF those things hadn't happened I could have practiced DB really well, just like the last time, and maybe we could have had a chance before my husband was out on the dating scene again.

Anyway I have a daughter who depends on me 100% so I'll keep trying to figure out a way to move and work and care for her.

[Coconut]

You are correct, standard hours for daycare are generally not long enough to work a full 8 hour day and allow time for drop off and pick up, but we made it work for my son with no issue. Most places offer early drop off and/or late pick up, unfortunately there was generally an extra fee with that, but not an unreasonable amount. I don't think you will have a difficult time finding a place that will work for you.

During the summers it tends to be a little more expensive, especially for kids school age, but again, there are places that offer long enough hours to allow full time work. We utilized the YMCA during the summer, as they have full day all summer long programs as opposed to "camps" which generally only run 1 week at a time.

As for the mood your WH is in, or whether or not he is being kind or angry/distant, you will get to a place that it is immaterial to you, as long as you continue focusing on you. It's difficult to get to that place, but you don't want to get stuck with him stringing you along just by playing nice for 30 seconds.

I was on meetup dot com yesterday looking for something to do for the super bowl, and in my town (relatively small town) there were a couple of single mom meet-ups, some meet up at a local trail in town to walk with the kids, and some meet up at local parks. You may want to look into activities like that, it may give you an opportunity to socialize with a purpose if your having trouble getting out.

[Ginger1]

Jim, yes I know most don't have a perfect life, but at the beach yesterday and many places I go, even Target, I see happy couples holding hands and looking so relaxed and talking to each other like best friends. That's how it was with my husband the first few years and I was so happy. I really loved my husband with all my heart. So to see all those couples knowing they're feeling such happiness is hard because this is the worst I've ever felt in my life and it's hard to see those things everywhere. As if Christmas wasn't bad enough now Valentine's day is coming. It just never ends.

I don't know if I was more positive but finding out about my husband's 26 year old girlfriend and their luxury trip to Dubai changed a lot of things for me. Now I know there's a pattern to my husband's behavior...when he's angry at me, stops spending time with our daughter, disappears, etc., it means he's found someone else. I will feel better if, or when, he gets out of this stage and can at least talk normally again without acting so hostile. Those 30 seconds last night were so nice. It was like he died and came back from the dead just for those few seconds. I already feel horrible again thinking about the divorce and how I'm going to survive. I'm looking forward to moving in April but I started to fear how I'll be able to work full-time. I don't think I can because the commute time and eight hours per day of working is greater than the number of hours the preschools / daycares stay open. I guess in most cases the parents trade off with drop off's and pick-up's but I won't have any help. So I'm not sure what I'll do. I'll have to hope for a miracle that someone will let me work seven hours per day or that I can find a flexible consulting job.

I know how difficult it could be trying to make it work with a kid and no family to help. I was in the same position. But I will tell you it can be done. I don't recall he age of your daughter, but it is extremely doable. ANd you ex will be responsible for a percentage which will be pretty high given his salary. I am a nurse (I know, not your top profession now) and I began working shift work, and I had to get out of that because it wasn't working between ex and I and unfortunately had to flop around on different positions and commutes to make it work.

Anyways, I understand how scary all of this is. I was 27, and a new mom with an infant when this happened to me. And my ex an I were out of the same house the night he dropped the bomb. I get this sense from your postings that you don't have enough confidence in yourself to make this work and you NEED your H. It's scary as heck, but I imagine you are quite a capable woman if you believe in yourself.

You need to power empower yourself a little, ya know?

[NicoleR]

Hi Coconut, there must be a way to make it work because there must be other single parents who have to work full-time, right? But the longest the schools in my new area are open is 8:00 AM - 5:00 PM and the commute each way is likely to be longer than 30 minutes, so that doesn't allow enough time. I could try to hire a babysitter to do the pick-up but then I wouldn't see my daughter at all for five days a week except just to put her to bed at night and feed her breakfast in the morning. It seems I have to find less than full-time to make it work until I can figure out a better way.

I generally don't have any problems getting out or socializing (except currently we're not going to the children's museum and those kinds of places to avoid the flu) but now that I'll be single it'll be nice to meet single parents. The hardest part is feeling like I'm the only one who is unmarried because everyone who's close to me in my life is married, most happily. The few who aren't happily married still have stable lives. I'm glad most people in my life are successful and happy because those are the kind of people I want my daughter to know. I want her to have as many role models as possible to and see what happy families look like. It would help me personally though to know some single parents who aren't teenage moms. My friends just can't relate because they haven't been through something like this before. I'll definitely look for the local single parents group when I move.

No matter what I won't be able to restore what I've lost any time soon and this is the hardest part to accept. Not just the loss of my husband but the financial losses, the loss of stability, the loss of my husband's family, the loss of my health, the setbacks in my career.... It's hard to let go of this resentment. It's hard to believe that we build so much together when we marry someone and then it can all be gone when they decide to walk away. I've been through other challenges in life and was hoping for a period of stability but that won't happen and suddenly 40 years have passed by in my life and it seems a combination of bad luck and risky decisions, like marrying a man from the Middle East, led me to this point. I just hope I'll find a way to give my daughter a life that will still allow her to have a full range of opportunities in her future. I hope that coming from a broken home without siblings or extended family and a mom who won't always be present due to having to work won't prevent her from being able to find her own good husband and career, but I know it'll be much harder for her. It seems I have to find a way to avoid working full-time until I know that she's ok, and even then I won't be able to have a full career like before.

A lot of what I write feels like I'm just complaining but I'm really struggling to accept this is my new life. How can everything just be gone? If I'd be fortunate enough to build a new life with a new husband who can fill in the gaps for my daughter and restore stability in our lives I see that as much better than struggling as a single mom. I guess that's what I hope for. There are probably many here who will disagree and say you have to be happy alone before you can be happy with someone else but I don't agree. In my experience, especially in villages in developing countries, the happiest people are those who live in close-knit communities with strong families that support each other. This notion that we have to make it alone, and be happy alone, and be alone before we can make someone else happy is something I reject. I married into a different culture because there were things about that culture I felt were better than our culture. Some are worse too, but I wanted to be part of a culture that's less individualistic and more focused on family. Too bad I married into that culture for those reasons and got left behind! My husband came here and became American and is now embracing his freedom whereas I'm back to square one.

Anyway my impression is that most people probably move on with greater ease or faster than I am. I do hope to report back here someday with something positive that I've learned or done to get through this. I hope this resentment won't last forever. More than anything I miss I my husband but hope to find a new husband someday who may not be perfect but at least won't walk away.

[Ginger1]

A lot of what I write feels like I'm just complaining but I'm really struggling to accept this is my new life. How can everything just be gone? If I'd be fortunate enough to build a new life with a new husband who can fill in the gaps for my daughter and restore stability in our lives I see that as much better than struggling as a single mom.

Oh Nicole. I've been at this for 10 year and I want to share some of what I have learned with you.

You do not need another man to restore stability in your lives. It seems like a huge undertaking, I am sure, but you can actually solely provide that stability for your daughter and yourself. I did. I am 10 years in and not remarried. I have been the one to provide stability and comfort for my daughter. I sure do long for a partner for MY needs as a woman, yes, but my daughter actually doesn't need me to have a partner. I have dated, she has really liked those 2 guys she has met and the time she has spent with them, but she doesn't need it for happiness. I have actually need able to provide it to her.

And the sterotype of a "struggling single mom" well, that's one I reject. We all struggle, single, mom, dad, married, it doesn't matter. We all face our struggles. Life does NOT have to be a struggle because we are a single parent. Maybe a little more difficult, but not always a struggle. Just like any other parent.

I do not believe you have to make someone else happy. You have to be able to make it on your own to make yourself happy. We are actually responsible for our own happiness and that is not a cultural thing, that is a human thing. And I say this as a human who is struggling right now with her singlehood. But at the end of the day, it's me who makes the best life for myself and someone else is a great, great addition. An addition I miss in my life.

FYI, my daughter is a 10 year old pre-teen, excited to attend school, an honor role student, with friends, who enjoys different activities, is in an afterschool community service program, and has many people who love her and she loves many people. I do not see our divorce preventing her from becoming anyone she wants to be as long as she embraces her "different" life and knows it is what she makes of it, rather than being defined by her circumstances. She wants to be a teacher or a physical therapist. She prefers a career before she finds a husband and hopes to have 2 kids one day. Her dreams and hopes are similar to those of a child in an intact family. ANd there is no reason why she is at a disadvantage at achieving her dreams.

You will be the one your daughter looks to for strength and guidance and to see that nothing should stand in the way of her goals.

[Coconut]

A lot of what I write feels like I'm just complaining but I'm really struggling to accept this is my new life. How can everything just be gone?

If you feel it and want to vent or discuss, write away… sometimes it helps to hear someone else say they feel/felt that way too. I know for me personally, I owned my own home since I moved out of my parents, I had never rented in my life. When I met my wife, I lived in a house that I had completely restored top to bottom, I had a car that was going to paid off in a little over a year, and I only had a couple thousand dollars in debt. I was in my 30’s, doing well towards building a nice life for myself. When I divorced, we had to sell the family home, I had a newer vehicle with 4 yrs of payments left, and all the profit that I made on the sell of the house was used to pay off my half of the debt, and I only had a couple of thousand left over. Early in my M I wanted to have children, after trying for over a year, found out my W could not have any more.

Moral of the story, I went into my M in a pretty good financial position (she came with nothing but debt), I gave up my opportunity to have children so I could be with her, and when she walked away I was left with no assets (but no debt other than my truck), no biological children, and stuck with renting (I’m about to move for the third time in a year and a half.

But all of that is ok, because I see a light at the end of the tunnel. Once I decide where I want to settle I will purchase another house to settle into, I have a stepson who means the world to me, and I am happier than I was during the last 3 or 4 years of my M.

There are probably many here who will disagree and say you have to be happy alone before you can be happy with someone else but I don't agree. In my experience, especially in villages in developing countries, the happiest people are those who live in close-knit communities with strong families that support each other. This notion that we have to make it alone, and be happy alone, and be alone before we can make someone else happy is something I reject. I married into a different culture because there were things about that culture I felt were better than our culture. Some are worse too, but I wanted to be part of a culture that's less individualistic and more focused on family. Too bad I married into that culture for those reasons and got left behind! My husband came here and became American and is now embracing his freedom whereas I'm back to square one.

This is an interesting comment, and one that I never thought much about, but Zues126 touched on this recently and I’m going to quote his post here (I hope he doesn’t mind), where he touches on his thoughts about what you just said. It’s an interesting train of thought, and basically makes me wonder if you took those villagers that are so happy and put them in another environment, would their contentment remain? For me, I think the importance of being happy with yourself simply minimizes your co-dependency, as well as allows for you to share your happiness with the other person, which is a very attractive quality.

To set up my new train of thought I'll recap a few of my world views that form the basis. It seems to me for most of human history we didn't have choices about what our lives would look like, we were born into a certain life and that's the life we had to live. People had to find ways to adapt to their environment, instead of adapting their environment to them. It is this hardship that forced us to develop traditions and religions, to find meaning in our suffering and make the best of what we had. Marriage in particular was a dominant model because it was a requirement for survival throughout these oppressive times.

After WWII in the 1950s we started to accumulate a surplus of economic resources, technology was developing, and for the first time people weren't forced to follow the old rules for survival. The result was inevitably, the 60s counter culture questioning all of the old beliefs and traditions. It was like a rock long disturbed was uprooted and suddenly the beetles and insects started scampering every direction.

Some of this was good. Think about barbaric traditions such as sacrificing virgins to imaginary deities so the corn crop would come in. This is a tradition that humanity can say, 'hey guys, we've learned a little bit, we don't need to keep doing this anymore'. On the other hand there are many traditions that embody the collective wisdom of thousands of generations we've discovered on how we can best exist together.

One big challenge is how we can tell which is which. And another challenge is that if each of us tries to decide on our own which traditions are positive and which need to go, the result is that we don't have any universal set of values and therefor chaos ensues, like an orchestra where everyone is trying to play their own favorite song. Yes it's freedom, but something is lost in that we aren't harmonious. And as we interpret for ourselves our morality it is too easy to modify our beliefs to match our personal desires.

I've been looking at this with a sense of loss. A loss of the institution of marriage. A loss of the model of sacrifice, servitude, lives dedicated to finding purpose in our suffering. And I used to harbor much more resentment towards XW and other WAS's who I felt had made the choice to go down a road of pursuing selfish worldly desires that was creating a pattern that would bring tremendous pain upon ourselves and destroy much of what we built over many lifetimes.

My friend feels differently. He feels that we were chained down by circumstance and that we are now free to choose our own paths. He views this as a positive. He thinks that marriage and personal sacrifice are outdated traditions that we no longer need. Like we were chained up for so long we came up with traditions on how to live while being chained, and now we're not chained so it would be foolish to stay in our cells when the door isn't locked anymore just because that's what we've always done. I find this very interesting.

There are a few things we agree on. Right or wrong, we both think this is what is happening. We also think that it was and is inevitable. Human nature is human nature. If you leave kids to themselves they'll eat cookies and watch youtube. And similarly the members of our society aren't going to remain in miserable unfulfilling marriages and sacrifice their own personal happiness when they aren't forced to by circumstance. This is clear as even the anti-divorce forum members loath the idea of remaining in an unfulfilling marriage and can easily build cases in which abuse/addiction could justify divorce. We can talk about how we don't like it, but when it's our life that's miserable and we're free to define our own morality and society agrees it's hard for us to be the ones to remain in a difficult situation perpetually because of traditions that no one else is honoring.

And since I feel this is inevitable, I have let go of much of my resentment. I no longer look at my XW or other WASs as horrible people that made selfish choices that destroyed my family and are eroding the society we have built over millennia and dooming our children. Instead I almost feel they didn't have a choice, that we are all sinners and flawed humans and are being swept away in an irresistible current. Sure, a few people can be the exception and decide individually to fight the current, but the majority are going to be pulled downstream. I am no exception to that as proven by the fact I am debating these things for myself instead of following faithfully the teachings of the a priest or a higher power. While I still recognize each person gets to make their own choices, I am finding much more compassion for those being left to navigate their own way while the majority is racing down this path.

Another area I agree on with my friend is that we don't understand partnering up with another person at this time. He doesn't because he doesn't want to make the personal sacrifice, and would rather be free to pursue his own desires in life. I don't because I think that whoever I partnered with would think like he does and ultimately divorce me when they decided that the marriage was no longer working for them. And, as I've mentioned, I have a hard enough time making the sacrifice myself as while I don't always like it, I am human too. So to make a huge sacrifice that would test my dedication so I can endure a number of painful years until my spouse labels me as abusive and leaves to pursue their own happiness again, a result which looks like a foregone conclusion, doesn't seem like a bargain to me.

Maybe this will change at some point and I'll embrace the new ways of serial monogamy as a happy medium and content myself with 3-10 year stints of companionship that expires when it's no longer mutually beneficial. Maybe this will even be a sign of growth for me, a form of embracing what is available to me instead of rejecting it because it isn't everything I wanted. I'm not sure. But I'm not there at this point, that's for sure.

Much of this is churning over old ground, but as time passes and I hear other peoples' input my views gradually evolve. It's too bad we each have to try to go through this and find our own beliefs and we have lost the harmony and much wisdom of the ages, but it does seem inevitable and has carried many benefits in terms of reduction of suffering through oppression. While some will always succumb to chasing worldly pleasures, we still have the choice to appreciate what we have and find meaning in our suffering and purpose in our servitude. I, being human, have a nice mix of both in my life.

Anyway my impression is that most people probably move on with greater ease or faster than I am. I do hope to report back here someday with something positive that I've learned or done to get through this. I hope this resentment won't last forever. More than anything I miss I my husband but hope to find a new husband someday who may not be perfect but at least won't walk away.

Don’t judge your progression against anyone else’s, because everyone grieves in their own way. One of the most popular questions when first appearing on the forum is “How long does this take”, heck, I even pushed for an answer for 1 to 2 pages of my first thread, but the answer is there is no way to tell. I know that a year in I thought I was doing great, another 6 months past that I no longer think I was doing as well as I thought back then and am doing so much better now, so who knows what the future is going to bring me. But I do know that I am happy, I am having fun, but will I be more so in the future?? Only time will tell.

[Joe2017]

Nicole... Do not compare yourself to others. I am in a divorce class now, and there are people there that are still stuck in the past,15 years after their D. You're light years ahead of a lot of people. You are moving forward and looking out for your little girl. Yes, this is a crap situation for you. No way around it. Just like everything else, you have to make the most of it.

Don't worry about your bad days, just live them out. They come and go. You will recover from this heartbreak. I wish I could stop dreaming about my W but some things we can't control. Focus on what you can change. Nicole, you were over in the sandbox! You got through that! You'll get through this battlefield too!!!

I'm sorry you don't have a lot of immediate support where you are. Neither do I for the most part. I think it's important for you to keep posting. We are all here to help each other. I know I'd be seriously messed up now if it wasn't for these forums.

Earlier you said DB does not work. Well, maybe not towards recon in every sitch. That's true. But DB is as much about recovering YOURSELF and making your life the best it can be despite the bullsht. I have started to love myself again through DB. I now look at my WW from the perspective of pity and pure "WTF"... What kind of idiot would leave ME? Just like why the hell would someone leave YOU!?!?

Nicole, you are stronger than you think and you don't need a husband to be a mother. Your daughter is going to be great. She will be fine without him around every day... Maybe even better without him! Who the hell says you should have aborted his own daughter?!?????! Remember that!!!!