Newbie In Need Of Guidance #2

[Accuray]

Why did you want to friend her on FB? What was your goal?

[sandi2]

I had a little catching up to do on your thread. Am I right in saying your plan of action is to focus on becoming a much better version of yourself, and that you intend to hold off confronting her at this time? If I am mistaken, then tell me.

I think it would be good for you to try and connect with old buddies. At least, that's a start. We have seen many H's like you who get a family of their own and that becomes their entire world. It sounds very pretty when the words are said, to think a man is so wrapped up in his W and kids that he's not really concerned or interested in anything else. However, the reality is that the man begins to lose a bit of himself. He slowly loses the guy he once was..........and his W no longer sees the man she fell in love with. So, I encourage you to expand your world and reach out to people who were once good friends.

While touching on the FB and reaching out, I do want to caution about a couple of concerns. Many new relationships have started by connecting with old sweethearts. In some cases, they were just friends, and then one admit that they had a secret crush on the other.....way back in the day. You probably know where I am going with this. We have seen that happen, too. The man and woman catch up about where they currently are in life, and usually one of them are having MR troubles or have recently divorced. Don't take this as an insult when I suggest you will be emotionally vulnerable to another female showing interest in you. It's natural, when your ego is suffering due to your spouse's rejection and turning to another person. So, I hope you will stick to male friends.......and should an old sweetheart make the moves on you.......run like heck!

In answering your question whether or not to ask your W to be friends on FB.......my suggestion is to wait on her. She will either send you a request, or she'll say something in person about why haven't you friended her. Your answer could be something like, "I didn't know you cared, but whatever is fine with me".......not smart a$$ way, but rather nonchalantly. You are going to change from Mr. Uptight to Mr. Cool.

Speaking of old friends, think back to your high school years. Was there a guy that could have won nearly everything in the Who's Who of the school's yearbook........especially Mr. Personality? Everyone loved being around him. He made people feel good, just b/c they enjoyed his personality. He was fun. He never acted as if he was better than you. He was always warm and friendly, without getting too personal or pushy, know what I mean? He was not self-centered, and didn't try to be the center of everyone's attention......however, if he found himself being as such, he didn't shy away. He was never boring, but he knew when to be still and listen to others. He was always busy. He always.....ALWAYS had a full calendar of activities, events, special dates, etc. Not only was he fun, but he was interesting. He loved life, and people loved being with him. He was the kind of guy all the other boys wanted for a friend, and the girls wanted for a boyfriend. Does that ring any bells with you? I remember some guys that fit that description. Oh, and another I remember, these cool guys were never anyone's doormat.

I wrote that paragraph b/c I want you to see yourself as being that kind of man. Before you can set goals about how you want to improve yourself, you need to have a mind picture of it. Do you agree? Some people might argue and say, "Well, that's not me". Really, what part? If you aren't sure about some part, let's talk about it. I am hoping I can help give you a picture of how to interact with your W, and how to act at home with the family. Needless to say, I can't do it in one post.

Let me warn you that your W may not react to your changes the way you might think. Some WW's get pi$$ed when the H waits until she is checked out before he decides to change. But the secret is in being consistent, and doing them b/c you are determined to be the best YOU on the planet. If you have any other reason for changing for the better version....you'll stop once you get what you wanted. Some men come back to the board a second time and say, "I didn't stick to the changes". They did the changes only long enough to get the W back. Then they got comfortable/lazy and found themselves right back in the same shape again.

So, back to becoming Mr. Personality. . If you stay focused on yourself, instead of what your W is doing/thinking.......your kids win, you win, your future relationships win......and maybe even your M will win. What do you say? Want to give it the ole college try? How about giving it more..........how about giving it your all?

Start by inwardly taking a very long look at yourself. I think you have already seen mistakes you made in your R with your W. You also see where you've narrowed your personal world, considerably. As has been mentioned, you won't be able to suddenly do all the things she complained about, and expect her to melt in your arms. That's one of the differences I see in a WW and WAW. When a W has left the MR due to her H being abusive, or engaged in some type of dangerous/unhealthy activity, or being imprisoned, or has physically abandoned his family, etc..........then that H could definitely make changes to prove to her she would be safe in trusting him again. But with a wayward W, she is emotionally divorced from her H, and her outrageous resentment and disrespect toward him actually act as roadblocks. It prevents her from responding positively to his earnest attempts to fix her old complaints. It would be easier if he could become attentive, buy her flowers and take her out, help with the housework, compliment her, spend more time with her...........or whatever it took to fix her complaints. But you see, she no longer has the mindset of that W in the past. This is no longer is truely about her complaints (although she will stick by them as her excuse to end the MR), this is currently about her waywardness. She is filled with anger and disrespect for you, and now she is rebelling against you and the MR. I don't think some guys really get just how bad their WW really disrespect them. That disrespect ruins her loving feelings for him. So, what is a H to do? He has to mentally go back and find the man he was before they ever got together. In a lot of cases, he has to improve upon even that guy, b/c now he is older. So, acting as if he was still in high school, wouldn't look too great on a mature man.......but he can take that foundation of who that guy was and go from there. Does that make sense?

Instead of focusing on what pleases your WW, you need to focus on your values, principles, integrity, belief system, and personal boundaries. When a H find himself in a sitch like yours, he can become so distracted by his WW's actions, until he loses all prespective. He just wants her to like him and stop being mad. Too many have overlooked or forgotten about their own self-worth, compromised their integrity, and sacrificed their foundational beliefs..... in order to please their WW. It does not get her love back. The H has to mentally place himself in an "observer's" position. As if he is the third person, observing this rebellious, resentful woman who appears to be doing everything she can to hurt and disrespect her H. When he looks at the situation as if he was a detached observer.......he will discover that's how he detaches emotionally. Does that mean he stops loving her? No. Does he means he turns into an unemotional zombie? Of course not! It means he does not allow his emotions to dictate his actions. He can think more clearly, and a lot smarter! Just as I can read about your sitch and feel true concern for your MR........I can do it without emotional attachment clouding my abilities. Make sense?

When the H is able to take the position of an observer and stop reacting to what his emotions dictate, then he can remember something else. He can remember how he would have interacted with a woman who would have treated in a similar way his WW is doing currently. You may say, "But wait Sandi, b/c it's different when it's your W". Is it? Okay, then the H might not get as crude and disrespectful as he would to a female who was treating him like sh't and wasn't his W. Like I said, she has emotionally divorced herself as his W. Only, it's a little crazy, b/c even though she doesn't want to be his W......she still expects him to act like her H. But, I'll try to touch on that subject another time. I realize when you have children involved, it's a little more complicated, than if you were just casually dating....and walk away from the R whenever you wanted. But I want you to start thinking more about how you would respond, if she wasn't your W.....to give you a balanced mental picture. This is just a practice. It's not to get you to become cold-hearted or an uncaring person. Some like to say it's like loving your WW from a distance. Not a physical distance, but in the sense of not being emotionally attached. It doesn't send you spinning when she says some off the wall nonsense. You don't spiral when she threatens something new. You remain calm, in charge, and in command of your actions.

Well, this is way too long, and I will try to get back to it tomorrow. If you can't follow a thing I've said, let me know.

[SteveLW]

Phenomenal post, as always, sandi. Good stuff here that applies to many of us.

[sandi2]

Thanks Steve, I hope it will help others. I plan to write more today.

[rminer]

Why did you want to friend her on FB? What was your goal?

I'm not necessarily wanting to friend her. The goal is to not push her further away by pursuing with a friend request or ignoring her by not sending a request.

Her keeping her profile pic a pic of her and me tells me she is wanting to keep the public perception that things are still good between us.

[sandi2]

I want to expound a little more on the subject of yesterday's post. First of all, when I make reference to being Mr. Personality, I am not implying that the H should act like a clown. You said you were the laid back type, and your W had the outgoing personality. In this sort of personality dynamic, I wonder if the laid back spouse begins to rely upon the outgoing spouse's personality when meeting new people, going to new events, etc. Do you know what I mean? Perhaps the quiet, laid back H feels that his W's personality will cover for his tendency to withdraw, shy away or not engage as enthusiastically, not appear as friendly or bubbly, or doesn't start up conversations with people he barely knows. Maybe you can answer this for me. My H is the easy going, laid back, quieter spouse, and I am like your W. I was definitely the "dominant" personality. However, without my H losing his own innate characteristics, he has come a long ways. I don't want you to feel as if I am suggesting you change who you are, but see how you might improve. It is so easy to get stuck in a behavior pattern, and it's not always a good one.

There is a ton of self-help reading material about how to improve almost every area in which you may feel you are lacking in interpersonal relationships. As you have stated about the long working hours on the job, and the time invested in finishing your house, you may feel there is no time for more reading. Maybe you could purchase tapes, or some libraries may have them.

Anyway, I'll get to the part you are probably more concerned about, and that is how to act around your WW and the kids. When you are with your WW in the presence of of your children, do not act as if you are shunning their mother. Don't ignore her, but neither should you be totally focused on her. Treat her respectfully........but it doesn't mean you have to stand there as she verbally belittles you, or something of that nature. When you are with your family, your attention will be mainly focused on the kids. If they are not saying much, then you ask open-ended questions to strike up a conversation. Show them eye contact, nod your head, and act as if they are saying something important (whether or not it really is important or interesting to you). Always make sure you have one on one conversations with your kids. Even if it's right before they go to sleep, stop by their room to hear about anything personal/private they don't want to say in front of others. I encourage you to be careful when speaking about your WW. It is not a contest to see which side the kids choose.

If the kids are feeling the strain between you and the WW (and I'm sure they must), try to make plans with them for something fun on your day off work. Yes, you will need to put the house on hold......but your family is more important at the moment. No matter their age or gender, they need time with daddy. Do things as a group, and do things one on one, b/c they need to see they will continue being held together as a family by their father. So, I am telling you that you will need to take the lead in seeing that this happens. Get out your calendar. Get out your computer. Start looking at events and activities that will be coming to your local area that you and the kids would enjoy. If there isn't anything, then put on your thinking cap and make your own fun activities. Think ahead. Summer will be here before you know it. Don't let precious opportunities slip by.

When you are home, you are going to be the coolest guy on the campus. Whether or not you feel comfortable anywhere else, a man's home is his castle and he should feel most comfortable there. Too many H's allow the WW to lead 100% at home. When this goes on for many years, he is not going to change things overnight. In your case, home is also school.....so your W has a lot of control over the kids' use of time and activities. However, when daddy gets home, school should be over. It is time for him to enjoy his family. Although your time may be limited, try your best to think ahead, instead of just arriving home and see what the WW is doing. This is your home and your children, too. Make every day count!

If they are not home and will be late getting back......then work on your house, but try to be home before they go to bed. If no kids around......work on the house building project or leave and GAL. Don't do her work that has been left. Always have plans to do something, and not be left alone and feeling uneasy around your WW. I really, really want to see you cut way back on working on the house. I had some relatives who built their own house, and it took forever. The W told me they nearly D over it. By the time they finished, they looked around and discovered their kids were almost grown and they had lost an emotional connection with them. So, a house is only a building, but the family makes any old place a home.

So, how should you act around your WW if it's just the two of you? I like to use the anology of the checkout clerk. When you go through the checkout line to purchase something, the clerk will usually speak and may even make a little idle conversation. It's just being friendly and curtious, right? How does the customer respond? Does he ask her personal questions? Does he try to sneak a little smooch? Does he get offended if she doesn't show interest in him, asks him about his day, or notice how nice he looks? Does he try to make more of their interaction than what it really is? Does he hang around her checkout counter to see who all comes through her line, and listens to what she says to those customers? Does he wait for her to get off work, so he can talk to her, or follow her to see where she lives? Well, I hope not, b/c he sounds like a psycho.

I want you to interact with your WW as if she's a checkout clerk. At least, as best that you can, under the circumstances. When you see her, smile and speak. It is fine to show a level of friendliness. Remember, you are Mr. Personality. If she is wearing something pretty, it's okay to compliment her. If she is cooking dinner, it's fine too comment about how good it smells, or tastes. Just make short, and don't keep on keeping on. That would be classified as overkill. The other thing to remember with complementing her is not to get too intimate or sexual, since she has OM. IMHO, I would not joke about sex, or imply you want to have sex with her.

In the 37 rules, if you are the one who usually starts conversations with your spouse, then don't initiate conversations, but wait for the spouse to start. The reason I inclueded that rule is b/c many H's would talk too much to their WW. They would try to keep her engaged in conversation (either on the phone or face to face) b/c they saw it as way to get closer or fix the problems, when actually it was pushing her away. Most times, it would lead to a R talk, which needs to be avoided by the LBS. Those H's were too emotionally attached, and the WW sees it as clingy, needy, and unattractive. Most H's I see come to the board, say way too many words when they interact with their WW.......or they think the 37 rules are suggesting they don't say anything at all. The rules were designed to guide newcomers, until the couple has reconciled. If you have any questions about them, please ask me. In the meantime, you can say something to your W, but don't initiate conversations. You know the difference. BTW, if you aren't applying the 37 rules, I encourage you to do so.

Initiating a conversation and speaking, are not the same. So when you go home, you can smile and speak to your W. If she asks direct questions, you can answer her.....but let me throw this in, before I forget. The more vague you are about your GAL details, the more mysterious and interesting you become to her. Women are curious creatures. They want to know details about everything. She doesn't want you knowing about what she does.....but mark my word, when you start going out, she'll expect you to tell her where, when, what, with whom, and when you will be home. However, you don't give her that information. You don't have to lie, in fact I advise that you don't. Just give very vague answers. Like, "I haven't decided. Not sure. I don't know. Probably late, don't wait up". And when you get home, she'll probably ask again, but learn how to give a vague response. Now, I know men can give those type of answers! And I also know that it drives women crazy. Why? B/c those answers don't tell her a thing. So, she becomes curious. Why is he being so mysterious? That interest draws her attention.

When you are not busy enjoying the kids and you find yourself alone with the WW, you should act as if you are in a hurry to keep an appointment. B/c that attitude signals to the other person that you have something else planned to do. For all she knows, you could be walking around the block, going to Walmart, read a book at the library, or whatever. If she tries to talk to you, you are polite (if possible), validate her feelings (if possible), and show by your facial expressions and nodding your head that you are listening and not dismissing her (if she's not being a horse's rear). As long as she is speaking respectfully, you can interact with her in like manner. Just remember, you are Mr. Cool, and you are not going to chase her, kiss her feet, or try to score brownie points with her. You don't have to......b/c you will be just fine, with or without her. She will be the loser if she continues in the direction she's going. In the meantime, you start acting as if you already know that you are the man. You are the winner in your life, and any woman would be lucky to have you.

If she starts in belittling, raising her voice, making snide remarks, or showing some other form of disrespect, what do you do? Hold your hand up in a stop sign motion, and say, "I am not going to listen while you continue speaking disrespectfully. If you can talk respectfully, I will hear what you have to say". If she changes and begins to talk respectfully, then continue to listen. If not, turn around and leave. If she starts a R talk, you can listen, if you want to, but you don't have to respond. You can always tell her that you will think about what she had to say. It buys you time to come to the board, if you aren't sure how to handle things. But while she is talking about past grievances or current ones, don't show your cards. (H's give themselves away by telling the WW too much). If you can validate her feelings, then do so. I am not in favor of saying too many words, when validating. Most H's want to just keep going on and on validating. He loses her, when that's the case. Another thing, I don't think the H should apologize for things he has already apologized for once. I mean, she is filled with resentment, and no amount of apologies will help her. She has to learn how to let go of the resentment. It is a heart condition that apologies do not easily fix.

I am not in favor of the H of a WW telling her he is working on himself. The reason is b/c she already blames him for every negative thing in life! She is not balanced. She does not think logically. She looks for justification for her waywardness. So, if he is telling her how he is working to become better........how do you think she's going to see him then? As if he is a dog licking her feet and trying to please enough for her to pat his head. That is exactly how she will see him! A normal W would be happy to hear her H say those words. But not a WW. She will use his own words against him........and when he does change those old complaints, it makes her mad. Remember, this is not the girl you married. This is a wayward W. Therefore, he does not buy himself more time, nor appreciation, nor sympathy, nor respect from her......by making changes in order to please her. Just keep it to yourself and if she sees the results, great, and if not, that's her loss.

Speaking of loss, you are probably a good man. Most men with the NGS are good ones. I just want to remind you not to feel that you must rescue your WW from the mess she's created. In fact, any mess she's made......she needs to clean up. Allow her face whatever consequences her waywardness brings her way. One of the board's favorite hero's use to suggest saying to the tearful, cheating W, "This is your mess! Don't expect me to clean it up". I think that needs to be applied on other levels, as well. A lot of H's who want to be good to their W, actually end up spoiling her by doing too much of her work, and catering to her, and relenting to whatever she wants. When she is wayward, she stops appreciating what he does for her, and has a sense of entitlement.

I hope you won't misunderstand anything I've said. I am not telling you to "nice" your WW back, b/c it won't work. I am simply trying to give you a picture of how to interact with her. Has any of this helped you? Do you have questions?

[rminer]

Am I right in saying your plan of action is to focus on becoming a much better version of yourself, and that you intend to hold off confronting her at this time?

Yes, you are correct. It’s not that I don’t want to confront her, it’s that I don’t think I have laid enough groundwork to entice her to come back. I think you and Acc are right in saying that at this point it would be fruitless and potentially make things worse. I will need at least a few more weeks if not more before I think I would be ready.

My questions is, [b]HOW[b] will I know I/we are ready?

We have seen many H's like you who get a family of their own and that becomes their entire world. It sounds very pretty when the words are said, to think a man is so wrapped up in his W and kids that he's not really concerned or interested in anything else. However, the reality is that the man begins to lose a bit of himself. He slowly loses the guy he once was....

I couldn’t have said this any better myself. This is exactly how I feel and how it went for me. I have given up so much in my life for her and my family (ultimately my choice) that I have lost who I am. I am not an exciting, fun loving guy like I used to be. My W has said more than once that she feels like she is the reason I am not living my dreams. I have always denied this to her, but she did play a big role in my decision to give them up. Everything in my life focuses on her and the kids, so I do nothing for myself. I definitely need to get some of that back.
In doing so, since I can’t invite her, how will she see that I’m doing that? Me talking about it? My attitude in general?

Many new relationships have started by connecting with old sweethearts. In some cases, they were just friends, and then one admit that they had a secret crush on the other...

Ummm… Yeah.
This is one of the pitfalls I said I was aware of. There is a girl who, as you said, did have a crush on me (so I am told). She is part of the group of friends I am looking for, so I am sure I will run in to her eventually. My W was told about the crush by someone and was told we had a thing going on the side… Not true, but that is what she was told.
This girl will be avoided.

Don't take this as an insult when I suggest you will be emotionally vulnerable to another female showing interest in you.

No insult taken. It is absolutely true. I have been noticing other women in ways I never have before. Eyes, smile, things like that. Normally I never notice, but since this all started, I have. Someone flirted with me the other day and I felt damn good. I can see how someone could start a new relationship under these circumstances without much thought.

I haven’t acted on anything and won’t. I still wear my ring as a reminder and I refuse to go down that road, but I can see how it would easily happen.

She will either send you a request, or she'll say something in person about why haven't you friended her.

My next question answered…

Before you can set goals about how you want to improve yourself, you need to have a mind picture of it. Do you agree? Some people might argue and say, "Well, that's not me".

I agree, but that wasn’t me. Never has been. That guy was my best friend in High School, so I know the type well. Some of those things do apply, but I was never the center of attention, didn’t have lots of girlfriends and certainly wasn’t Mr. Personality. Don’t get me wrong, I had friends and most people liked me, but I was never the center of the group.
I admittedly have become boring and I’m not sure how to become interesting again. At least to her.
As I have mentioned, I have had quite a few talks with my kids lately and they have told me I am the “cool” parent and I’m fun to be around. Good to hear, but how does that translate to my W? Being “cool” and “fun” with your kids is much easier than with adults.

Are you saying I need to get a major social life? I ask because that is how I read what you are describing. My work schedule and kids simply won’t allow that. Occasionally, yes, but all the time, no. My W’s new found social life is part of what is causing her to lose the kids (more on that in another post). What can I do from home to accomplish this? I am spending a ton of time with D14 and S8 (which is also pi$$ing my W off. Again, another post), so I’ve got that covered. Not sure what else to do.

So, back to becoming Mr. Personality. . If you stay focused on yourself, instead of what your W is doing/thinking.......your kids win, you win, your future relationships win......and maybe even your M will win. What do you say? Want to give it the ole college try? How about giving it more..........how about giving it your all?
Start by inwardly taking a very long look at yourself. I think you have already seen mistakes you made in your R with your W. You also see where you've narrowed your personal world, considerably.

I’m committed, but I’m not sure what I am doing so far is getting noticed for the most part. As I have said, I have been doing a lot with D14 and S8, which she has noticed in a negative way judging by her comments to D14. I go out occasionally to do my own thing, not telling her what it is I am doing or even that I am going most of the time. Usually it consists of going somewhere to walk or read. Not exactly what you would call interesting, but I am hoping she will think I am doing other things. Sometimes it is during the day on my days off, sometimes after work and occasionally in the evening on my day off. Don’t get me wrong, it is not two or three times per week – usually once a week to once every week and a half. She has only shown that she has noticed once – the first time I put cologne on before I went out. I did not receive a warm reception the next day.

I will tie all of this in to another post tomorrow because I have seen some attitude changes in the past two weeks I want to run by you.

I took a little bit of time off from this board to do just what you suggested – take a long look at myself. I see a lot of my mistakes as well as hers in our M. I’m the same guy she married at heart, but not outwardly. I have lost a lot of myself over the years and quite frankly, am not happy with my life. I’m not talking MLC unhappy, but unhappy in a sense of I have nothing to look forward to that I enjoy doing. My life is work. That’s it. I think if I start by changing that, I will be much more content. Sounds a lot like GAL, doesn’t it? Wonder where I have heard that before…

The H has to mentally place himself in an "observer's" position. As if he is the third person, observing this rebellious, resentful woman who appears to be doing everything she can to hurt and disrespect her H. When he looks at the situation as if he was a detached observer.......he will discover that's how he detaches emotionally.

This has actually started to happen a bit for me, although I am not all of the way there. My conversations with my kids has put my mind at ease quite a bit and I have been able to look at myself and my wellbeing as opposed to theirs. It is a work in progress, but I am starting down that path. I am still experimenting with my interactions with my W (again, more tomorrow), but her actions and reactions are not bothering me nearly as much as they were. I might be wrong, but I think detachment is starting for me finally.

Only, it's a little crazy, b/c even though she doesn't want to be his W......she still expects him to act like her H.

You don’t say? I never noticed…
This part actually drives me the craziest. She still “notifies” me about things that need to be done and expects me to do them, yet she doesn’t do a thing for me.
To be fair though, she has shown a few acts of kindness towards me over the past couple of weeks.

But I want you to start thinking more about how you would respond, if she wasn't your W.

I would have walked away. No questions asked. But, as you said, children complicate things and I do still love her. We have 33 years invested in each other and I can’t see throwing them away without giving our best effort to work things out.

[rminer]

Dang. You posted while I was typing...

[sandi2]

Yes, you are correct. It’s not that I don’t want to confront her, it’s that I don’t think I have laid enough groundwork to entice her to come back. I think you and Acc are right in saying that at this point it would be fruitless and potentially make things worse. I will need at least a few more weeks if not more before I think I would be ready.

My questions is, [b]HOW[b] will I know I/we are ready?

That is a question one of the LBH's could probably answer much better than I can. However, I want you to stop obsessing about the confrontation. If you don't, then all this other stuff I have put out here on your thread the past two days will go in one ear and out the other, b/c all you can focus on is confronting her. Scr@w the confrontation, unless you want to get a divorce. I think your male ego wants her to know that you know what she"s doing. When confronted, that is usually when the WW will tell her H she wants a D. So, if you are determined to go that route, please tell me now.

To give you MHO about when you'll know the time to confront her, I think most guys go a gut instinct. Personally, I feel you need to be armed with evidence, and choose the right
Mtime and place. I think you should catch her totally off guard. Don't tell her you need to talk about something.........none of that stuff, b/c it tips her off. The more she is caught unprepared and surprised, the better for you. I believe in timing for all things. If she's in a Horrible mood, I would not pick that time to confront her. Know what you will say. Practice it while standing in front of the mirror. Show more confidence than ever before, and not an ounce of weakness. No tears, no sympathy, no pity, and no begging. If she says the M is over.......then be prepared for it. Tell her you will respect her wishes. If she says she'll end the A, then you give her your stipulations.........but I won't repeat all of that in this post. My main point is that you are brutally honest with yourself in why you are busting a gut to confront her about the OM? Do you see it as ending the A?

Everything in my life focuses on her and the kids, so I do nothing for myself. I definitely need to get some of that back.
In doing so, since I can’t invite her, how will she see that I’m doing that? Me talking about it? My attitude in general?

How will she see you returning to the fun loving guy you once were? Did you even read my second post? No, don't discuss your personal GAL time. Your attitude and general lighter mood, & friendliness will send out more messages than you know. She'll probably have questions about it. Don't spill your guts. The secret is to let other tell her how much they enjoyed being you and how much fun it was. And, she'll know. She's a woman........she'll find out. The kids will probably talk about the good times. When the kids are home and you are playing with them, getting ready to go somewhere, etc.........she will see.

As for GAL, that should be mysterious to her. If you do all of what I suggest, and if you do it's for her to see........you will appear like a six year old who is jumping around trying to get his mother's undivided attention. So, try with all your might to do these for you and your kids. And btw, when you have something planned with the kids, it's okay to invite her......once in a while. But your personal GAL without your kids.......no, absolutely not. Your W has been your crutch ever since you M her. The point is to step away long enough to discover who you are as a man. Some men are worse than children being pulled away from the mother on the first day of school. But you can do this! The fact you were fun before M is a plus factor.

I agree, but that wasn’t me. Never has been. That guy was my best friend in High School, so I know the type well. Some of those things do apply, but I was never the center of attention, didn’t have lots of girlfriends and certainly wasn’t Mr. Personality. Don’t get me wrong, I had friends and most people liked me, but I was never the center of the group.
I admittedly have become boring and I’m not sure how to become interesting again. At least to her.
As I have mentioned, I have had quite a few talks with my kids lately and they have told me I am the “cool” parent and I’m fun to be around. Good to hear, but how does that translate to my W? Being “cool” and “fun” with your kids is much easier than with adults.

Okay, no problem. I didn't mean to imply that *you* had to be the center of everyone's attention. I was just trying to paint a picture of a guy you would see as Mr. Personality.
We can break it down into small steps. I don't expect you to jump in a ring of complete strangers and start doing cartwheels.

I admittedly have become boring and I’m not sure how to become interesting again. At least to her.
As I have mentioned, I have had quite a few talks with my kids lately and they have told me I am the “cool” parent and I’m fun to be around. Good to hear, but how does that translate to my W? Being “cool” and “fun” with your kids is much easier than with adults.

Okay, so the kids are already in your corner. You say it's much easier being fun and cool with them. They will be your first stepping stone. Plus, they could be your link to meeting other people, or practice new skills on your current acquaintances. Do you have something fun planned for this weekend? What are the ages of your kids? Better yet, why not give the information about you and W and the kids in your signature line.

Are you saying I need to get a major social life? I ask because that is how I read what you are describing. My work schedule and kids simply won’t allow that. Occasionally, yes, but all the time, no.

Yes, I am telling you to get a social life. I am not telling you to give up your job in order to socialize. I tell you what, let's emphasize GAL as your "social life". Doing fun things and hanging out with the kids can be referred to as "family activity". You GAL occasionally, but your kids are home every night, so you can make the most of it when you are together.

What you may have misunderstood in my previous post, was my reference to you spending so much time on the building project. Maybe I have it wrong, but aren't you doing that after you get off your regular job every day?

My W’s new found social life is part of what is causing her to lose the kids (more on that in another post). What can I do from home to accomplish this? I am spending a ton of time with D14 and S8 (which is also pi$$ing my W off. Again, another post), so I’ve got that covered. Not sure what else to do.

I don't you intended for this to sound like an excuse, but it kind of does. I mean, it is a true statement, but let's see how we get around it. I don't know what you mean by her losing the kids. Maybe you'll explain.

If there is something you want to do for GAL, you need to beat her to claiming the date on the calendar. Maybe there is a family calendar in your house where appointments, etc. are posted on the days. If not, just say, I have plans for March 16, so I will not be available here at the house. If she asks if the kids are going, just say no. Let her pi$$on everything in the house. Just remain cool as a cucumber and ignore her tantrums. Quickly turn your attention to something else. She want to know what's so important on that date, b/c she had plans too. You do not give her details about your GAL. She has your number if their is an emergency. Nothing else really concerns her about your plans. Don't let her dominating personality back you into a corner. Don't let her become your excuse for not having the freedom to GAL once in a while.

Every person who comes back to the board and tells us how much happier they are, tell us how they did it. They let go of their sitch and GAL. That is how you will find the guy you were before M. Every person is given the same 24 hours in every day. It's up to us as how we use it.

[

quote]Originally Posted By: sandi2
So, back to becoming Mr. Personality. If you stay focused on yourself, instead of what your W is doing/thinking......your kids win, you win, your future relationships win......and maybe even your M will win. What do you say? Want to give it the ole college try? How about giving it more..........how about giving it your all?
Start by inwardly taking a very long look at yourself. I think you have already seen mistakes you made in your R with your W. You also see where you've narrowed your personal world, considerably.

I’m committed, but I’m not sure what I am doing so far is getting noticed for the most part. As I have said, I have been doing a lot with D14 and S8, which she has noticed in a negative way judging by her comments to D14. I go out occasionally to do my own thing, not telling her what it is I am doing or even that I am going most of the time. Usually it consists of going somewhere to walk or read. Not exactly what you would call interesting, but I am hoping she will think I am doing other things. Sometimes it is during the day on my days off, sometimes after work and occasionally in the evening on my day off. Don’t get me wrong, it is not two or three times per week – usually once a week to once every week and a half. She has only shown that she has noticed once – the first time I put cologne on before I went out. I did not receive a warm reception the next day.[/quote]

I guess it is pointless for me to tell a newcomer LBH to stop worrying about whether or not his W notices. She will notice, okay? She probably won't like it. Why? B/c you waited until she was emotionally finished with the MR before you got off your a$$ to make the changes she is now seeing in you. But that's fine. If you want to really get her stirred up, wait till later in the evening, then put on your cologne and head out. "I'm going out, don't wait up". . I could probably tell you a lot of ways to get her ready to chew nails. But the goal is not to make her angry. It is to make you appear more mysterious and interesting. Let me ask, do you live in city or rural area? Just was wondering what might be available for you.

My life is work. That’s it. I think if I start by changing that, I will be much more content. Sounds a lot like GAL, doesn’t it?

A lot of hard working men become their job. They lose themselves in their work. I am embarrassed to admit that I had many years under my belt before I realized that this is how most men show their love for their family. He is the provider and protector in the family. He wants them to have as good a life as he can afford. So, his whole life is work, work, work. Unfortunately, some wives forget to let her H know how much he is appreciated.

I am encouraged that you followed up on my suggestion of the self evaluation. This post is ending much better than I thought reading the first few words. I am not the best writer, and I don't mind answering anything you don't understand. I don't know all the answers, by any means........I am referring to something I have said that may not make sense.

[

quote]Originally Posted By: sandi2
Only, it's a little crazy, b/c even though she doesn't want to be his W......she still expects him to act like her H.

You don’t say? I never noticed…
This part actually drives me the craziest. She still “notifies” me about things that need to be done and expects me to do them, yet she doesn’t do a thing for me.
To be fair though, she has shown a few acts of kindness towards me over the past couple of weeks.[/quote]

I'm sure it is crazy for the H. Here's the thing. The WW has turn completely selfish. In fact, that's her motivation. If something does not benefit her in some way, shape, or form........then she's not interested. She want to keep her secret A with OM, but she still has certain benefits in the M to her H. She can be unfaithful and betray her H, and turn around and play happy family when it suits her.

I would have walked away. No questions asked. But, as you said, children complicate things and I do still love her. We have 33 years invested in each other and I can’t see throwing them away without giving our best effort to work things out

.

That's what I suspected, which is a good answer. I have seen some men who fit your dating history of not having an abundance of girlfriends......and they just turn to mush at the thought of losing a woman that treating him horribly. Those are the ones I have a hard time understanding. I am not as cold hearted as I might sound at times. I have had divorce all around me, so I've seen good results and bad results. I think you still have a level of self-respect that she has not completely stripped away. You love your children and do not want to split the home. So, we are going to support you as best that we can, okay?

[Si_07]

Hi rminer, as always with Sandi, you are getting some great advice. I haven’t read your story from the beginning, sorry, but reading recently I understand how hard it can be to change the thought process. I to was a guy that would do anything for my family, my W, always trying to make sure she had everything she wanted but along the way I forgot about me and my life. I had nothing except for work and home... It took awhile to get out of the place but I did..

Suggestions I would make are to look for Meetup groups or FB groups in your area. Over the last 2 years I have joined about 8 different groups from hiking to Expat, and it’s all about getting out and meeting people, talking to people other than your kids. It’s great that your kids want to be with you, I know this feeling, just yesterday my D5 says she wants to have 6 days with me and 4 days with W and it’s because I play with them, listen to them and involve them in activities. Another thing I did was that I found a local sports team and starting taking the kids on Saturday nights when it falls on my weekend. It’s not high level so it’s cheap but it is different. W doesn’t do anything like this with them.

Like Sandi said, get on that calendar first and say you are going out. Make plans and stick with them.

When you think she won’t see, trust me, she will especially since you are still in the same house. I have been physically separated for 2 yrs now and W is still tracking me.. Even yesterday, she picked up D from my place, I handed her a bag of some food that D likes since I don’t see the kids for 5 days now. W first question was “Are you going out of town?”
I said no but I’m rarely at home when the kids are not here, (which is true), W stood on the doorstep for 5 mins not saying anything, looking lost, like she couldn’t process that information... Inside I smiled.

Getting out there and meeting people will change your outlook, will help take away that focus on W and bring back the confidence in yourself. Save yourself first then you will see how things go...