Hi, I'm new, I found this forum this week, while not sleeping. I just want to share my life right now.
I found out six days ago that my wife was cheating. We have kids (3 & 5) and ever since we found out we were pregnant, neither of us have gone out without the other at night past 9. And even with each other it would be rare.
My wife suffered a miscarriage this summer and she blames me (I won't go into the details but i didn't offer the necessary support, out of ignorance not malice). Afterwards she got herself in shape, made herself incredibly hot and started to go out with friends. The first time was in mid November and I'm sure that is when she met this man.
Since then she has taken to driving out at night to him. I've worked out who he is from going through her emails. He's 10 years younger than us, single, and living in London (we live in the country outside). She is writing a "book" she calls it, with the names changed and she is chronicling everything in there.
I've confronted her and she is lying constantly. I've finally got her to admit that she drove out one night to meet a man and may have kissed him for a bit. But from things i've found in her search history I know she has been sleeping with him.
Her mother guilted her into saying she'd stop, but she was sobbing at the time (the only time she looked sad) and saying she'd give up her happiness for the children. With all the other lies I don't believe her.
I've decided to get out of her way and let her do this, as I can't stop her and I'm afraid if I try she'll leave the home and the children. I'm hoping it is the grief from the miscarriage and that if that can heal we can get past this.
Am I insane to get out of her way? Since I found out I haven't been able to eat, I'm thirsty all the time, and I've been only sleeping for 2 hours a night. I feel on the verge of a meltdown.
Me: 37, W: 40 D: 5 & S: 3
Me 37 Her 40 D 5 S 3 T 6 M <2 I discover PA: 2017-12-10 ILYBINILWY: 2017-12-11
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Thank you. I have spoken to friends but no body who has gone through this. The idea that someone could cheat and not stop in shame when caught had never occurred to me. I will read the links now.
Me 37 Her 40 D 5 S 3 T 6 M <2 I discover PA: 2017-12-10 ILYBINILWY: 2017-12-11
Really sorry to hear what's happened. Your post reminded me of my immediate reality after first BD. I was so adrenaline fuelled I didn't sleep the first two days - complete fight or flight response.
You are absolutely right to let her get on with it. I did everything in my power in those early days to get between them. I didn't understand his allegiance had switched - he had lied so proficiently until then. What you said about your wife sobbing and saying she'd give up her happiness for the kids - my WH did exactly the same thing. He was red in the face with weeping when he went to first break off with OW and from what I gather they had some kind of romeo Juliet scene where I was the personification of the warring clans combined and they were young innocent pure true love.
Barf.
To stand in her way would be to give her and OM another reason to bond. It's no coincidence that the situation we find ourselves in arises from being in long term settled relationships with a high degree of domesticity. Complacency and routine have a great way of breaking rose tinted glasses. Getting out of her way will allow that to progress to this stage faster than if you fight it.
I, unfortunately, know a lot of people who've gone through this. Are going through this. There is no shame because the OM/OW is right and we have been judged to be wrong. The marriage is reduced to a legal obligation. Her comment about her happiness should give you the clearest indication of this. She doesn't want to live a life of obligation and duty anymore. I am going off slivers of insight I've managed to wrangle out of my WH.
Take heart. I am describing the situation as it is. Not as it always has to be.
Of the DB rules, I have moved in that direction. I have definitely broken 6 and 10 but since I got over the shock I have been giving space, I rejoined a gym, getting my hair expensively styled on Monday, and have been pleasant and polite around her.
I think all this is coming from the miscarriage. She never had counselling for that. Should I ask her to go on her own? Or should we do couple's counselling? I'm afraid that if she doesn't get help this destructive behaviour won't end in time. I can't keep loving her forever, if she keeps this up I know I will stop.
When I told her I wasn't going to tell her what to do, the only condition I placed was that she'd have to contribute to the finances of the house. I lost my job this time last year and am working in a startup for effectively no money. I feel like she is making a fool of me with this man, and I can't continue to pay for it.
I thought this was fair - I know she is grieving, I'm letting her do this because of that, but she needs to face some of the consequences of her actions. But she exploded at it. All she is focussing on is the financial demands I'm putting on her.
Me 37 Her 40 D 5 S 3 T 6 M <2 I discover PA: 2017-12-10 ILYBINILWY: 2017-12-11
Thank you 2016sux, it helps so much to hear my experience shared. The physical symptoms alone are crazy - you are right, fight or flight, but I know I'm going to crash soon. I have had less than 1000 calories a day and almost no sleep for six days now.
The fact that you never resolved things with him frightens me though - has anyone who has let this run its course had their marriage saved? I think it is my only hope but i just don't have much hope at all.
Me 37 Her 40 D 5 S 3 T 6 M <2 I discover PA: 2017-12-10 ILYBINILWY: 2017-12-11
The thread on the newcomer LBH with the WAW was like a bucket of cold water poured over me, Cadet.
I had thought she was having a MLC, and had even joked with her that she was like the cliche of a man. I did think her above reproach and never doubted her. She does think I'm the enemy, everything I do is taken out of context.
I am struggling to make sense of the advice though. It seems manipulative, rather than focussing on myself and getting on with being more attractive. I may be misunderstanding, but it doesn't seem to align with the DB rules.
Me 37 Her 40 D 5 S 3 T 6 M <2 I discover PA: 2017-12-10 ILYBINILWY: 2017-12-11
I'm awake late as I've just found out my H may (probably does) have OW. This isn't new to me so although I feel sick, I don't feel shocked.
Try to get some good hours sleep, eat when you feel able...force yourself when you don't feel hungry and take each hour of the day as a victory. Drink plenty of water if thats what you crave. It's so tough. Every part of you hurts, I know. Every part of you is screaming inside at how painful this is. You feel alone, but you're not. Come here and vent to people who understand.
I suffered a miscarriage of twins at 3 months many years ago. I felt my H wasn't there for me, he wasn't a great support emotionally. It did take its toll. I craved comfort. And I know it stayed with me, and I resented him for that. It wasn't the grief of the miscarriage that made us drift apart, it was how he handled it. But my H couldn't handle any kind of emotional encounter.
But grief affects people in different ways. I'm not saying she'll snap out of it once her grief subsides because nobody can say that.
Hang in there. Let her get on with it. She will lie, you can't do anything to change that. But you don't have to condone her behaviour or go on her rollercoaster either.
Take care of yourself.
Me 50 H 48 S 23 S 21 D 19 Together 31 years Married 25 years Separated April 2009 Reconciled 2010 Separated September 2017
If is ok to give her space. The truth is we learn how to detach with love on here. Detaching with love allows us the opportunity to give our S the space they need to figure out their true feelings and it also allows us to the time to get us selves back to a healthy emotional state. Right now you can consider youself emotionally sick. We have all been in your shoes. Not being able to eat or sleep. And just thinking about our S day in and day out. It will fade. The faster you start DBing the better off you will be. Also the better chance you give your Sitch and opportunity for a recon.
Read Sandi 37 rules. I had to read it an endless amount of times. I still read it and will probably for the rest of my life. Detaching, GALing, 180s and learning how to validate are life long lessons we learn. Remember this journey is a marathon and not a sprint. This journey also takes positivity and patience. Practice both. Read up on both, look at videos on both.
We are here if you need us.
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I am struggling to make sense of the advice though. It seems manipulative, rather than focussing on myself and getting on with being more attractive. I may be misunderstanding, but it doesn't seem to align with the DB rules.
Hi Cadet, I'll put my thoughts together on this later - I may have been confused because I was reading and posting at 2am, or whatever it was
I had my first morning with her this morning since I said I wouldn't stand in her way. She was out till 2am, undoubtedly with the OM. She came down sheepishly and said good morning waiting for the bollocking - and I'm pretty sure I smashed it. I was bright and breezy, gave her my attention but didn't offer much other than stuff about the kids. She brought up our future, not me, and I kept it light. I was more interested in what is going on with my life rather than her A.
Thanks to everyone here. 1 day down. All it took was reading the DB rules 4 or 5 times when I woke up.
I will get there.
Me 37 Her 40 D 5 S 3 T 6 M <2 I discover PA: 2017-12-10 ILYBINILWY: 2017-12-11
Cadet to come back to your earlier question - why was I confused between the DB rules and the advice for dealing with a wayward wife. The post gives the following advice:
Quote:
Do not even try to initiate small talk. If she initiates small talk at the dinner table or in front of the kids, then he should respond in civil but few words. His talk should be more focused on the kids and perhaps their scheduling for the following day. He is not to reveal details of his GAL plans during any of these conversations, other than saying he will be out. If she asks any questions, he should simply give her that incredulous look that says, "Seriously?"
This seems to be difficult to do while maintaining the air of confidence and happiness that the DB rules suggest.
I've told my wife that I'm going to get a life, sort myself out etc. so that I can move on from her. If she doesn't come back to me soon then I'm not going to want her back, I'll have better options elsewhere.
I've told her that either she'll realise that she does care about me or I'll stop caring about her and in either situation I'm going to be fine.
I think this goes against the advice above in the WW article, but I thought it was consistent with the DB rules?
Me 37 Her 40 D 5 S 3 T 6 M <2 I discover PA: 2017-12-10 ILYBINILWY: 2017-12-11
My update today is that my wife has agreed to go to couple's counselling in two days' time. And I have worked out exactly who the other man is - though I haven't told her that, and think that I should keep this quiet.
When we go to counselling I want to focus on the reasons for the breakdown of the relationship, not the A itself. But this gets back to the miscarriage and my failure to support her. How do I talk about this without seeming desperate to get her back? I don't know what to expect from the counselling session so can't build a strategy.
Me 37 Her 40 D 5 S 3 T 6 M <2 I discover PA: 2017-12-10 ILYBINILWY: 2017-12-11
joejoe1, thank you for your advice. Reading the rules again and again does help prepare me to face her.
I'm trying to detach, but she has been completely financially dependent on me since she was pregnant with our first child. I have asked her to start contributing to the household budget (which I would think is necessary for me to detach) but she has misinterpreted it as me cutting off the full time carer of my children and trying to make her work, and leave the kids. She has a friend who is telling her to hire a lawyer over this (she is lying to this friend about her A so I seem like a lunatic controlling freak).
Me 37 Her 40 D 5 S 3 T 6 M <2 I discover PA: 2017-12-10 ILYBINILWY: 2017-12-11
Hi Sique If that turns out to be the case it won't do any harm (at this stage) to talk to a lawyer just to see where you stand especially as here in the UK she will probably get custody regardless and with no job the onus might be on you for support
Me 55, W 50 D 8 M 20 T 27 MIL w/ us BD 01/02/17 workplace A (12/09/16, EA -> PA) OM senior manager, long term W, child 14 now: limbo (my choice)
"Don't care what you may do, we got that attitude!" - Bad Brains
My advice is NOT to engage in MC while your wife is in an active affair. Any counselor worth their salt will refuse because it can be damaging while she is in the clouds. This is pursuit and is a HUGE no-no in DBing. So far you are doing brilliantly, keep detaching, make her chase you. She needs to win back the amazing, sexy, strong, confident man you are returning to.
I am impressed with your ability to GAL and detach. Step out of her way and make yourself an amazing man only an idiot would leave.
M 10yrs T 13yrs BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce April '17-Letting go 2018 D busted DD8, DS6, DS3
Can certainly echo that as we had 10 sessions and then I discovered that my W was still in contact with OM. She had originally readily agreed to it during the shock of confrontation so I can only assume she pulled the wool over the counsellor's eyes
Me 55, W 50 D 8 M 20 T 27 MIL w/ us BD 01/02/17 workplace A (12/09/16, EA -> PA) OM senior manager, long term W, child 14 now: limbo (my choice)
"Don't care what you may do, we got that attitude!" - Bad Brains
I did speak informally to my business partner's wife, who happens to be a family law solicitor, and I've got a handle on where things stand, but thank you.
Me 37 Her 40 D 5 S 3 T 6 M <2 I discover PA: 2017-12-10 ILYBINILWY: 2017-12-11
I'm finding the lies about everything really frustrating. She has created a narrative in which I'm this controlling, paranoid man which couldn't be further from the truth. She used to complain that I never got jealous! Now I can't trust her.
She went out two nights ago to see her uncle. I knew that she'd go on to see the OM but I was prepared for that, didn't bother her, handled it ok after. But, because she hasn't admitted to the affair I still wasn't 100% on what she had done - I was still hoping I was being crazy. So I went onto her laptop and used her google account to look at her maps history. She uses her phone as her car's satnav so it has everywhere she has been. I made sense of what has been going on and, while I was there, I checked where she had been most recently.
Is anyone surprised that she left her uncle's house at 9, drove to where I know this guy lives and stayed there for 4 hours? No, didn't think so.
She tries to provoke a fight - "I didn't see him last night, but you won't believe that, you have it all made up in your head." I feel like I'm going crazy and (frustratingly) I'm offended at how stupid she thinks I am (always been intellectually arrogant). "I know, XXX, I don't suspect, I know you were there. I told you, it doesn't matter. You have already admitted to an AE, the physical doesn't matter, we need to sort out the grief around the miscarriage and what is wrong with our marriage then we can come to this." Which drives her nuts: "There is no this, it is in your head."
Gah! Really annoys me more than anything.
On the positive side, I have worked out how she met him. He's a struggling film production assistant working as a barman who chatted her up one night. She even told me about him at the time - "the barman said I looked amazing" or something like that. My response was too perfunctory I suppose ("You do look amazing, I'm not surprised") and, as mentioned, I just didn't get jealous. She went back to that bar with her sister a week later. I think she must have got his number then.
And it matches her google timeline - she had told me a story about going out with her new female friend to the Groucho (a private club for media lovvies in central London) etc. But the timeline didn't have the Groucho on it. It had the bar he worked initially, then on to another bar that is around the corner. She is living a fantasy, I think.
I feel less threatened now. A barman hitting on a 40 yo lonely wife is not a threat to my family. If I can fully get my head around not caring about her anymore then I can be sure she won't leave me for this guy and try to take the kids with her (something I always thought unlikely but she is so different now I couldn't be sure).
Btw she told me last night that she had spoken to the guy and she wouldn't be seeing him again. LOL.
Me 37 Her 40 D 5 S 3 T 6 M <2 I discover PA: 2017-12-10 ILYBINILWY: 2017-12-11
Yet another update (sorry for the high volume): I took the dog for a walk this morning. My wife was still in bed so I asked her to come down and watch the kids. As I tried to leave my five year old daughter asked to come too so I brought her along. I assumed my wife would guess so didn't say anything.
When I came back to the top of our drive my wife burst out of the house, my son in her arms, blood streaming down one arm where she had cut herself. My phone had been on silent; I hadn't known that she didn't know where DD was. Stupid and careless of me.
But I'm now thinking that this A is just another act of self-destruction, like cutting her arm. She needs help so badly. I've asked her mother to intervene but she is a cold unemotional woman who avoids confrontations so isn't much use.
I suppose I broke all the rules. I comforted her, I bandaged her arm, I pleaded with her to get help, I told her I'd do anything to help her. I know there is a chance she is manipulating me. Even so, my children need their mother and I can't help it.
Me 37 Her 40 D 5 S 3 T 6 M <2 I discover PA: 2017-12-10 ILYBINILWY: 2017-12-11
Quote: Do not even try to initiate small talk. If she initiates small talk at the dinner table or in front of the kids, then he should respond in civil but few words. His talk should be more focused on the kids and perhaps their scheduling for the following day. He is not to reveal details of his GAL plans during any of these conversations, other than saying he will be out. If she asks any questions, he should simply give her that incredulous look that says, "Seriously?"
This seems to be difficult to do while maintaining the air of confidence and happiness that the DB rules suggest.
I don't suppose you remember which thread it was quoted from? I have a lot of posts, so I will try to explain and hope it isn't out of context.
You may see this quote as meaning the H should be cold and sullen toward his W. However, that is not the correct message here. Let me try to explain.
Many WW's want to have their pseudo happy home life.....and carry on with their affair, too. A lot of H's are too focused on the WW and follows her around the house and talking way too much. He mistakenly sees this type of action as him working on their relationship and trying to get closer. But actually, he is pursuing her. Whenever a H pursues his WW, he is actually pushing her away. Pursuing her while she is in an affair will backfire on the H. If you read all the WW threads, it may help to understand that mindset.
I think the above quote is for the H who knows about his W's bad behavior.....and she knows that he knows. Therefore, he is not going to play her game of " happy family" as though nothing wrong is happening in the M. He is no fool, and she is clearly disrespecting him. So, he presents himself as a confident, strong, honorable, alpha male....in charge of himself. He knows what he won't tolerate, and he's not going to be his lying, cheating W's BFF. He is preoccupied with his new personal life (GAL), to let her moods or game playing get him down. He doesn't discuss anything about his GAL, b\c women are drawn to mystery. Instead of pursuing her, be mysterious.
One of the things I see in many newcomer H's is he tells his WW too much. He is in such a habit of explaining or giving an account of his every mood....that he's forgotten how to shut his mouth. Another thing I see in newcomer H's is repeating something from the board. Don't do it. Unless we are telling you how to specifically word something.....do not repeat statements you read here. I think some H's read something that seems like a good strong statement his W should hear. But when he says it to her.....it doesn't have the same affect. Usually, the W can tell that it doesn't even sound like him, and thinks he quoting from some book. She sruggs it off as if he's goofy. You are the one getting tools here....not her. So, don't run home to share what you've learned.
Okay, getting back to the original quote you thought sounded contrary to the rules. The H's one on one interaction with his WW, is comparable to how you interact with a checkout clerk in the store. You take care of business; don't discuss anything about your own personal life; don't ask the clerk personal questions or hang out at her counter....hoping she'll make time for you; don't hug her... nor cuddle with her; and don't invite her on activities with you and the kids. You keep it short, professional, smile, and you are on your way b\c you are excited to be going wherever your GAL plans take you. Oh, and no matter how Fonzie cool you may have handled yourself.....you never look back to see if she is watching you.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
However, that is not her thinking at all. If he agrees to this friendship, she will use it to her advantage in every possible way. Especially if they are living in separated houses. He becomes her handyman, plumber, electrician, errand boy, babysitter, and the best one of all......a gay boyfriend. She can cry on his shoulder when there is a problem between her and OM, and will expect his sympathy!
I just realised that she has done this to me today. Her self harm may have been triggered by thinking our DD had wandered off and disappeared. But the reason her mind was in this bad place is that she had "broke it off with him" (before quickly correcting herself that there is nothing to break off). I know she had sex with him the night before, and as I always thought, the 30yo bar man lost interest in the 40yo married mother of 2 driving over to his flat once he got what he wanted. He wasn't as keen yesterday, so she flipped and told him she didn't want to see him anymore. (THis is my guess, but consistent with her all-or-nothing personality).
So when I comforted her I was being the gay boyfriend, you mention in that post.
Damn. I feel like a fool (again).
We are going to MC tomorrow but I'm not even sure I want her back. We've only been married 2 years (though together 6) and because she was depressed over the miscarriage she decided "I just didn't feel like I was married" and hooked up with the first barman to compliment her and then fell in love with him. She doesn't seem special to me anymore.
Me 37 Her 40 D 5 S 3 T 6 M <2 I discover PA: 2017-12-10 ILYBINILWY: 2017-12-11
I woke up last monday, numb, not able to care anymore. We had our first counselling session and it left the counsellor quite puzzled as both of us stated that we don't want to get back together. We have decided to continue the counselling so we can get to a situation where we are able to be civil to each other and stay in the house, for the sake of the kids.
But now, a few days on, and the heartache is back. She is going out again tonight, for the third time this week. Yet again I'll put the kids to bed and cuddle them to sleep on my own. Again, I'll be alone.
I know the advice - GAL. And I will. But for the next month I know I'm too emotionally fragile to do much. I've been struggling to eat (dropped about 6.5kg ~14lbs) in two weeks and it is catching up to me.
My only comfort right now is that after a year of treading water with my startup, we are finally getting traction. I'm keeping this from her. I don't want her to know that our financially precarious situation is finally coming to an end.
Thanks for listening.
Me 37 Her 40 D 5 S 3 T 6 M <2 I discover PA: 2017-12-10 ILYBINILWY: 2017-12-11
Hi Sique yes that first month or so will be hell but will pass believe me, to be replaced by a whole new set of thought processes. Maybe use the weight loss to your own advantage (like I did)?
look after yourself!
Me 55, W 50 D 8 M 20 T 27 MIL w/ us BD 01/02/17 workplace A (12/09/16, EA -> PA) OM senior manager, long term W, child 14 now: limbo (my choice)
"Don't care what you may do, we got that attitude!" - Bad Brains
I will indeed use my weight loss to my advantage, but the rate of loss is too high to be safe. I've lost 6kg (~13lbs) in less than 2 weeks, a lot water i'm sure, but I need to get my appetite back functioning again.
She shouted at me on the phone earlier - her laptop had stopped working and she was demanding I come home and fix it. I told her she can't speak to me that way and I hung up. It gave me such a lot of satisfaction, I felt like I was in control for once.
~Si
Me 37 Her 40 D 5 S 3 T 6 M <2 I discover PA: 2017-12-10 ILYBINILWY: 2017-12-11
Sique, welcome. I'm sorry you're here. I just caught up on your sitch.
Your W will try to convince you that you're to blame for this. She'll deny her A and make you feel like cr@p for suspecting. Trust your heart. My STBXW did the same thing. She built a "reality distortion zone" around me and I had trouble even seeing what was right in front of me.
It sounds like you're already starting to stand up for yourself and not accept her attitude. Great job, especially so soon after BD. You're already doing better that I did
I suggest you drop MC. I know you want to fix things, but she's too far gone for MC to do any good.
Me-47,XW-43 S13,S16 M:18 BD:4-23-17 W filed:7-17-17 (5 months of in-house separation hell) W moved out:1-6-18 D granted:2-15-18 Decree signed:3-29-18
