Newbie trying to gain control

[Gordie]

Sjohn6,

There are detachment pros around here. I have been terrible at detaching but am getting better. Take baby steps. Try different things. Find what works. Here were my baby steps:

Spend more time physically apart (literally, give more space)

Find GAL activities where it is impossible to think (for me, this is the gym)

Do not initiate texts, calls, conversations, sex, anything

When falling asleep (my worst time for spinning), listen to music or a book

[sjohns6]

Thanks Gordie. Baby steps seems to be the only way to go. I think that initiating things is my main problem. I have this fear that if I don't keep things going then what are we left with. I know better, and little by little I am letting go, but it's tricky. Of course when I initiate and the outcome is negative, it only seems to hurt me. I have been a lot better about that in the last week. I mean I've been getting better about it for longer than that, but I mean better as far as wrapping my head around it and detaching from the emotional side of it. I have to work to get there...but I've been getting there.

Luckily I've gotten better about going to sleep. I was having a hard time getting to sleep like you mentioned, but for whatever reason I seem better with that now. I think its because she hasn't been going out drinking till late hours and when I go to bed, she is already asleep. I think at that point, I feel a little peace because she is asleep so at that moment there isn't anything to deal with and I can let my guard down.

I just hope that as I get more used to detaching that I don't completely lose my desire to wait this thing out. That might actually be my biggest fear...that if I detach too much I'll stop wanting to make things work and be done with her. I don't really want that, but I understand that its a real possibility.

[Gordie]

If you are always initiating, then she has no reason to miss you or pursue you. Read distance and pursuit thread

[sjohns6]

I was reading (re-reading actually) some posts by Sandi regarding wayward wives. In reading through the posts, I found myself wondering if my treatment should be different once there is not an EA/PA anymore. Sandi describes the mind of a wayward wife...and mine is one. She is a little more mild in the relay actions than some, but she definitely falls under the wayward category.

So, for now, my wife has ceased a lot of the crazy replay behavior she was doing. She stopped the EA in June (almost 6 months ago), she moved back home, stopped going out so much, began reconnecting with friends and family, and recently even began resuming chores around the house. She is cordial with me, sometimes almost normal, but often cold and distant still. She isn't mean to me or blow up at me about anything, but she is still distant and sometimes cold. Last Friday actually seemed almost normal. She initiated conversations, was engaging in family time (not just in the room), and even said a few nice things to me. It was the most normal I have seen her in some time. I don't say that because she was nice, but more because her body language and the look in her eye. I was able to see "her" again and it has been some time since I have seen anything but the MLC version of her. The next day she got a little cooler again followed by a return to what has been the norm. Again, she isn't specifically mean, just distant.

From what I have read around the interwebs, it seems to me that we are in limbo. The time between stages where things sit still. What I wonder about is Sandi's approach to waywardness. W has stopped her hard core replay antics and has started trying to reconnect with some things, but not with me. Is Sand's advice towards waywards still what I should be doing? To summarize my actions, I don't initiate calls, texts, emails, conversations (mostly...some are necessary), intimacy, give gifts, or invite on dates. When she she initiates conversations, I reply, but only lightly. What I am working on is not seeming mad/sad when I do this. Mostly I can...but sometimes it can be hard because the situation can be frustrating. Thats why I am working on detaching more (in my head, feel like physically I am doing it).

Just curious if as things progress, my actions should soften at all. If she acts normal, do I continue to be aloof or give in a little. I feel like all the advice I read causes me to walk a tightrope with all the behaviors I should and shouldn't do. I just want to do what is best and that is hard to pin down.

Sandi, if you're there (don't know how to link you if that is possible on this site), do you have any advice for the wayward who has begun to calm down a bit? Is the advice the same all the way through this situation?

Thanks to all for the advice and support from this site. I will continue to try and detach more and forgive me if I ask for reassurance on things that might have already been suggested to me. I don't really have any other friends to offer me the kind of advice I get here so I might need reassurance on the same issues from time to time...to make sure I'm doing the right thing.

[job]

I would recommend that you treat her as a friend and/or roommate. Keep the expectations to a minimum and if she talks, you listen. You may even want to invite her to go out for a coffee once in a while. It doesn't hurt to "experiment" a bit and see what works and what doesn't work. Keep in mind, she is still processing and it will take some time for her to feel comfortable in her own skin. Also, whatever relationship you do create w/her...it must be a new one and old habits need to be tossed out. Dig deeper for patience and allow her to come to you when she's ready.

[sjohns6]

Thanks, job.

I'll continue with the roommate treatment. What I have to learn to work on is the friend part. I think that's what I struggle with...and where my confusion regarding Sandi's advice comes in. Sandi makes it sound like being friends isn't really in our best interest as that is more for WAS, not wayward. She suggests tough love. Of course that advice seems more like beginning stage stuff. I struggle with it because when she is cold or distant towards me, its hard to want to be friendly back. And I know that it doesn't me be BFF's, just friendly. The counter advice (counter might be the wrong word here but hopefully you know what I mean) is to detach and move on so that she begins to realize that I am moving on. Its hard to work out in my head that being friendly will allow her to think I am moving on.

Yes, patience is something I continue to need to work on. Man...that is hard. Especially since it has been a year already. I know that is not long when compared to the overall process, but in real life, living with something like this for a year (and more to come) seems like forever. I am strong willed, but patience can be hard to have.

I admit to being surprised that you think that maybe asking her out to a coffee might be ok to try at this point. I like the idea, but you don't think that asking her to do something alone with me will cause her to pull back again? I do realize you said to experiment to see what works which indicates it might not, but you think that's a reasonable play at this point?

Thank you so much for your reply. It gave me a bit to think on!

[job]

There is nothing wrong in saying "w, I'm going to such and such a place, would like to go along or can I bring something back for you?". Give her the option to say yes or no. If she says yes, then go and keep the conversation on generic things and not on the relationship. If she says no, go any way and enjoy your outing. It's her loss if she opts out.

It's better to give her the option because then it gives her the "control over her life" and not being forced to do something she doesn't want to do.

You won't know what works unless you experiment a bit. Dig deeper for patience.

[sjohns6]

Thanks job. I'll give that a try when there is an opening (invite her to go with me for coffee or something). In the interim I will try to detach more emotionally, GAL, and dig for patience.

[sjohns6]

Journalling, but any advice or comments are welcome.

Last night was hard. I think it was more hard due to being triggered than it was due to the actual events.

Yesterday was my W's friend's birthday. W was planning to go to happy hour with her for her birthday, but in the morning she was packing an overnight bag. Before I go on, I should mention that her friend DOES live on the other side of town which is about an hour away (without traffic). It was, however, just a Tuesday night. We have 2 middle school aged kids and jobs to go to. I said "you are packing an overnight bag? Its Tuesday, you should come home after if you can". She said "I'll see what I can do, but it is soandso". I said "yeah, but she isn't a teenager anymore". Not sure if that was a good thing to say or not, but that was pretty much the end of the conversation. As per normal these days, we did not text, email, or call the rest of the day. In the evening I picked up the kids from school, got s some dinner, and went home. She did not show. I did not get a cal, text, or email letting me know that she would indeed not be coming home.

This morning when I got up, I was worried and I did some snooping to see if I could tell whether she was still alive/not in jail. I have snooped a little recently and it always proves nothing other than she has plenty of communication with everyone but me. She seems to be done with destructive replay, but still indulges in selfish/insensitive behavior, but even that seems to be dwindling a bit. Main issues now are that she still doesn't seem to want to be with me. Sorry, got off topic...so when I snooped this morning (the phone bill to see if there was any activity), I saw 3 calls last night around 11:30. The first was very close to my number, but a couple digits off. The next 2 calls were my old work number. I haven't had that number in almost 6 months, but I'm sure she still has it in her phone. Basically it looks like she made some kind of attempt to call me, but I guess was to drunk to get it right? Very weird, but...she did attempt a call.

Then, shortly after I got a text from her saying that she had stayed at her friends house and that she would see me this evening. Several minutes later I replied with "ok". She then sent me 2 more texts asking if I wanted to go to my sisters on Friday and that my sister had gotten a new video game. I did not reply to that one. She does not know that I know that she tried to call last night (not that it matters, her attempts did not lead to an actual call).

This interaction has me confused on how to respond (not to the text, just in general when I see her) for several reasons. First, in the past I would have no problem with her going to a friends to celebrate their birthday...even if it ended up being an overnighter if she drank too much in celebration. Of course she wouldn't have done that mid week anyways, but if she had I would have been ok with it. I feel like this kind of thing has become a trigger for me since it mimics the behavior of when she was acting a lot more wild. Although maybe in bad taste to go get drunk mid week and stay at a friends when you have a family at home, but in the grand scheme of things it wasn't that bad. I want to be able to not get so frantic when little things like this pop up. I am not condoning the behavior, just accepting that my internal reaction may not match the situation. I feel angry and disrespected.

Another issue I have is that I have been reading Amy's old posts and seeing that in order for W to eventually come out of MLC, she has to see me as a safe place and believe that I could forgive her. I know that replying to her in anger or being judgmental will not facilitate that. I know that she is not at a place right now where that matters completely, but I want to work on that being my perspective. To detach and let go while leaving the light on. To not care as much about her crazy antics while still maintaining the stability that will be needed if she is to eventually come out of it.

I'm a work in progress...

[Gordie]

S: I said "you are packing an overnight bag? Its Tuesday, you should come home after if you can". She said "I'll see what I can do, but it is soandso". I said "yeah, but she isn't a teenager anymore". Not sure if that was a good thing to say or not, but that was pretty much the end of the conversation.

G: I didn’t like how you handled this. She is a grown adult and does not need your permission to go out even if you don’t like it. Either (a) ignore it and don’t expect her back until the next day as it was obvious what was going to happen or (b) ask her directly—when will you be home (said without judgment, just matter of fact)?

S: As per normal these days, we did not text, email, or call the rest of the day. In the evening I picked up the kids from school, got s some dinner, and went home. She did not show. I did not get a cal, text, or email letting me know that she would indeed not be coming home.

G: you need to lower your expectations to zero.

S: This morning when I got up, I was worried and I did some snooping to see if I could tell whether she was still alive/not in jail.

G: this is really hard to do...but you’ve got to let go.

S: I have snooped a little recently and it always proves nothing other than she has plenty of communication with everyone but me. She seems to be done with destructive replay, but still indulges in selfish/insensitive behavior, but even that seems to be dwindling a bit. Main issues now are that she still doesn't seem to want to be with me. Sorry, got off topic...so when I snooped this morning (the phone bill to see if there was any activity), I saw 3 calls last night around 11:30. The first was very close to my number, but a couple digits off.

G: who dials actual numbers on a cell phone? Aren’t you a contact? Sounds like a call to someone else.

S: The next 2 calls were my old work number. I haven't had that number in almost 6 months, but I'm sure she still has it in her phone. Basically it looks like she made some kind of attempt to call me, but I guess was to drunk to get it right? Very weird, but...she did attempt a call.

G: or butt dialed. You have no idea.

S: Then, shortly after I got a text from her saying that she had stayed at her friends house and that she would see me this evening

G: do you believe her?

S: Several minutes later I replied with "ok". She then sent me 2 more texts asking if I wanted to go to my sisters on Friday and that my sister had gotten a new video game. I did not reply to that one.

G: so she goes out all night doing who knows what with whom...and now she is trying to make everything sound normal.

S: She does not know that I know that she tried to call last night (not that it matters, her attempts did not lead to an actual call).

G: you don’t know that either.

S: This interaction has me confused on how to respond (not to the text, just in general when I see her) for several reasons. First, in the past I would have no problem with her going to a friends to celebrate their birthday...even if it ended up being an overnighter if she drank too much in celebration. Of course she wouldn't have done that mid week anyways, but if she had I would have been ok with it. I feel like this kind of thing has become a trigger for me since it mimics the behavior of when she was acting a lot more wild. Although maybe in bad taste to go get drunk mid week and stay at a friends when you have a family at home, but in the grand scheme of things it wasn't that bad. I want to be able to not get so frantic when little things like this pop up. I am not condoning the behavior, just accepting that my internal reaction may not match the situation. I feel angry and disrespected.

G: Trust your gut. Do you believe what she told you about where she was and with whom?

S: Another issue I have is that I have been reading Amy's old posts and seeing that in order for W to eventually come out of MLC, she has to see me as a safe place and believe that I could forgive her. I know that replying to her in anger or being judgmental will not facilitate that. I know that she is not at a place right now where that matters completely, but I want to work on that being my perspective. To detach and let go while leaving the light on. To not care as much about her crazy antics while still maintaining the stability that will be needed if she is to eventually come out of it.

G: this is hard. Some possible actions (not sure which is right for you):

1. Stranger. Total indifference to where she went and with whom. Don’t ask and if she brings it up, show little interest.

2. Friendly neighbor/roommate. Just ask, how was the party? Show a little interest. Don’t interrogate her.

3. Husband. You can say, I was really worried about you last night when I didn’t hear from you. I’m glad you are safe. I’m upset that you didn’t tell me where you were and that you decided to stay overnight when you said earlier in the day that you’d let me know.

Not sure where you are in your journey. But for me right now, I do #1.