I have been reading on the sidelines. You are a model for standing and working on your M. I like that a lot and it shows who you are. One amazing woman and mother.
Your WH is a cheater and I dislike seeing you being hoovered on an endless cycle. It is your path to follow and your choice to accept it, so I haven't said much. Sometimes it works out to be true change, a very long shot.
Each time the cycle happens, the optimism comes along with your amnesia. It's the sweet cycle and it's abusive, more so than the bad stuff including cheating.
You need INTEL I think, he may be cheating again. The big demo of deleting his profile and reassuring you? Call me a cynic.....
I know I post what you don't want to hear.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Good to see you around, Vanilla! Long time no see. I can understand your suspicions and am still keeping my guard firmly in place. When WH had his A he was cold, mean, not a good father and spent a LOT of time on his phone. If he's cheating then he's super man. He spends every free moment home with me and the kids and is very engaged with us.
So WH picked up a stomach bug from DS1, he spent the night vomiting on Wednesday and was completely lethargic on Thursday. I took care of the kids and went about my usual routine. On Friday WH was all better and constantly texting and calling just to joke and play around. By that evening I was stuck in the bathroom vomiting and diarrhea. WH completely took over and Friday night/Saturday morning he was cleaning DD6 vomit out of the carpet while I puked in the bathroom. It was both hilarious and disgusting.
I was useless all Saturday and WH took care of me and the kids. Now it looks like this awfulness has passed and WH is still sleeping as he is probably exhausted. He continues to work on us, he wants to know if there is anything I need both emotionally and physically. He sets aside time just for us so we can talk and we have used some of the tools we learned at Retrouvaille to communicate, though not as structured and regimented. Sometimes something will trigger me and he sees it, he will look like he's in pain and say Sorry over and over again.
One thing that has been absent for a while is my rage. I guess I decided I could spend the rest of my life looking for things to be just or I could be happy. My DB coach told me a long time ago that people get the mentality that, "Someone's gonna pay" and that can prevent people from healing. I decided that the scales can never be even between WH and I and I needed to stop waiting for that to happen. Instead of working on getting our old marriage back I decided to build a new relationship. Does this mean we will be married for the rest of our lives? Not sure. But I can at least have a functional relationship with the father of my children.
WH knows I have decided that I can walk away from our marriage if necessary for my own mental health. I filed for divorce and the paperwork is 80% complete, albeit on hold. My retainer is still in escrow and all I have to do is contact the lawyer if I feel it's time to move toward D. I do not use this as a sword of Democles over WH head but rather as a protection. I don't bring it up but we both know it's there.
For now I focus on the NOW. Instead of ruminating over all his past transgressions I have focused on how we are both nurturing each other. I have read hundreds of other DBers stories and quite a few of them achieved their goals without IC or MC. They simply kept working on themselves and towards watering the grass in their own backyard.
I find myself disagreeing more and more with the hardliners that expose, kick out and overall shame their wayward spouses. This punitive behavior almost NEVER works and instead rips up the road back home. Putting boundaries in place are for the BS and should be about protecting the BS not hurting the WS. The DB coaches advise against that as well as MWD in her books. Lovingly detaching involves GAL, building up your support network, stop snooping and moving forward. Focus on those goals and you win no matter the outcome of the marriage.
M 10yrs T 13yrs BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce April '17-Letting go 2018 D busted DD8, DS6, DS3
I think it depends on the wayward. Frankly some of them an the way they behave deserve no wriggle room.
I have NO sympathy for cheating at all, that is a line no one should cross. It's unworthy and of poor moral character.
As soon as the LBS says enough then the wayward knows is business time.
I don't believe in snooping although I believe in INTEL. It is different, to know rather than to guess. Once you know you can never unknow. Plus truth darts are different to shaming. It's the behaviour that needs addressing not the person. That is boundary making and I think we are on the same page.
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
I responded to your post on my thread but just want to say that your husband sounds amazing taking care of a sick child, then getting sick, then helping again. It's so much better having two parents who can trade off. I'm sure you won't regret your decision to try to fix the marriage. I hope the reversal will lead to long-term reconciliation your kids will grow up in a happy home with two parents who love them and love each other.
No worries Vanilla, I keep tabs just to check now and again. While snooping is unhealthy for the LBS when they already know what's going on I think it's different if you are moving towards piecing and you want to protect yourself from being taken advantage of. Regardless, WH has given me unfettered access to his emails, cell phone, bank account, etc.,
NicoleR, At this point I am enjoying having a partner help me with all the day-to-day care. Will it last? Time will tell.
So again things are humming along. I continue to work on myself and manage my reactivity, this includes my behavior towards WH, the kids and even my colleagues. WH seems to be poking his head out of this...MLC? I dunno. For instance, WH has purchased 5 bikes in the last 2 years (he's gotten more than that but used them as trade ins) and seemed to be spending money hand over fist. A few nights ago I caught him staring into the garage at them and I teasingly asked, "Checking out the girls?" He looked pained and admitted he feels embarrassed looking at this excess. He finds his behavior in the last two years baffling now. And this extends to his money wasting, the affair, the overall unraveling. I told him to sit on any decisions about what to do with the bikes for at least a month. I don't want him swinging into the other direction and becoming an aestetic, lol. He's in pain right now but there is nothing I can do to ameliorate it, it's his journey.
I continue to try and keep the road paved back home and WH has started spontaneously saying ILY, telling me I am a good person and talking about me at work to his colleagues telling them how lucky he is. I in turn tell him what an amazing father he is, I touch him a lot, kiss his bald spot a lot, tell him how much he means to me. I am hesitant to call us piecing because it's so early in the game but there is a peace now between us. I can honestly say if he dropped the ILYBIANILWY right now I would be hurt but completely at peace with us separating. Why? Because I turned every single stone to save our marriage. IF WH decides to walk away I can lift my head high and know I did my part to give my children a whole home.
We are both working on showing each other how treasured we feel toward each other. I remind myself that I always kept myself well groomed, soft spoken and laughed a lot when we first met. Even though we're married I try to look amazing around him because it's so easy to slide into complacency. I was thinking about this the other day. I never lash out at work, or dress like crap, or just dump all my problems on a colleague. Why was I doing that to WH in the past? Probably because I took him for granted and just assumed he would always settle for whatever I had leftover at the end of the day. That was my mistake, complacency. I also let my resentment build up and instead of approaching him in a loving manner to help out more with the kids and household stuff I would berate him and hen peck him. Looking back I am surprised he didn't tell me to go pound sand much earlier. I had become his mother and not his wife.
So we have a loooong way to go and the future is uncertain, hopeful but uncertain. I will keep updating but I may move myself to piecing if these changes continue to stick.
M 10yrs T 13yrs BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce April '17-Letting go 2018 D busted DD8, DS6, DS3
We are both working on showing each other how treasured we feel toward each other. I remind myself that I always kept myself well groomed, soft spoken and laughed a lot when we first met. Even though we're married I try to look amazing around him because it's so easy to slide into complacency. I was thinking about this the other day. I never lash out at work, or dress like crap, or just dump all my problems on a colleague. Why was I doing that to WH in the past? Probably because I took him for granted and just assumed he would always settle for whatever I had leftover at the end of the day. That was my mistake, complacency. I also let my resentment build up and instead of approaching him in a loving manner to help out more with the kids and household stuff I would berate him and hen peck him. Looking back I am surprised he didn't tell me to go pound sand much earlier. I had become his mother and not his wife.
Hi Psych
I am glad that you are close to piecing and in a much better place. You are a very hard worker and certainly did everything that you could to save your marriage.
When I came on here, I really wanted to save my marriage. I was (and am) too angry though to really implement what might have worked. And I often look back at how I acted in my marriage and feel shame for not being a perfect wife and partner. I often wonder if I was a better person and spouse, would my ex not have suffered from his addiction problems, went into secret debt, and left me and my son?
When I read this paragraph you wrote, it made me want to play devils advocate and not because I want for you to be angry at your spouse, but because your voice is also mine.
What you are writing sounds exhausting. To have to be constantly on (Like we are at work) And perfect. At all times. When the kids are small, when we are sleep deprived, when we are exhausted. Chances are, our spouses were not perfect either. But we did not do things to betray or end or put at risk our families safety and security.
What makes marriage so much more difficult and perhaps sacred from other relationships like those in work and school is that marriage is supposed to be unconditional (with exception to betrayal and addiction) People, couples do lash out, and dress poorly, and smell bad and get sick and sad and nag. Its what we do because we are human. Our spouses might not like it, but they are just as imperfect and we dealt with them. Now this is not an excuse to not put effort into your relationship. But there should also be a grace period granted by our spouses. I notice a lot of the waywards on this board left after young kids, sickness, death.
That is what marriage is. The hard part is not being prepared for what its really like. Kind of like child birth. You don't really know how painful it is until you experience it. Eventually the pain ends and you have a beautiful gift...that will continue to bring periods of pain but also joy throughout life. I feel like many of these Waywards just deserted at the painful part. I think many of them cannot handle discomfort. But life will always be filled with discomfort, so what will keep them from leaving again if they are not committed through discomfort?
Juju, Thank you for such a well written, thoughtful response. I definitely agree that marriage is supposed to be through thick and thin. I guess I presented my thoughts poorly. My point was I had stopped giving my husband the "cream" and was only giving him the leftovers. I was sarcastic, resentful and would pile up a list of his deficiencies on my head and unload them when we argued. Do I still have moments where I snap at him and don't give a crap about my appearance, heck yeah! But I had gotten to the point where I wasn't even caring how I looked at home.
Since DBing I went back to my former days where I dressed up and put on makeup even when I wasn't going out. Nothing fancy but if I answered the door at 9 am I wouldn't be embarrassed. I also have worked on being more present when interacting with my kids and WH. I was previously just going through the motions until I could escape to whatever time-suck I had lined up. I think believing that marriage is unconditional can make for complacency, it did in my case. The fact is more marriages are ending in divorce than ever before shows that most people no longer agree with it being guaranteed.
I just want to be a great wife and mother and am trying new things as the old PsySara wasn't effective. My resentment and anger were making me look like a very unhappy person. And who wants to hang out with that? My anger was and is a huge issue and I need to deal with it.
Anyways, kids just woke up and I am excited to see their reaction to their little play kitchen I spent 4 hours assembling yesterday, woot!
M 10yrs T 13yrs BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce April '17-Letting go 2018 D busted DD8, DS6, DS3
PsySara, I read your updates and they all sound great. My responses to you on my own thread didn't go through but I was saying how impressive it is that you've done so much - all those jobs, becoming a physician, multiple kids, etc.. and you're holding your family together and now even focusing on looking good! Your husband must definitely be proud and know it's worth earning you back! That's great you're working so hard on everything and seeing the results. I hope it keeps getting better and better.
Sara. You have the patience of a saint. You have absolutely gone above and beyond in this m, through hell and back and is truly truly hope that he is pulling his head out of his a$$ and saying alhamdulilah ive been absolutely blessed! There’s been so many similarities in your sitch and mine and our husbands (even their cultures). I honestly come to you when i need a bit of strength. Right now i feel like I’m just at the survival stage, and i know you’ve been there. The not knowing if this is what you want, or you’re ready to give in. And what a journey you’ve had since the start of this thread!! I think my journey has been paved for me through him picking someone else, when our Islamic divorce is invalid, and our legal is going through.
Me 26 H 25 M 4 T 5 Baby born 4/14 BD: 1/15 EA: 2/15 PA: 4/15 reconciling: 4/15 ILYBINILWY- 11/15 ILY-1/16 ILYBNILWY 4/16 ILY 6/16 ILYBINILWY 6/16 Baby due 3/17 BD 8/16
We are both working on showing each other how treasured we feel toward each other. I remind myself that I always kept myself well groomed, soft spoken and laughed a lot when we first met. Even though we're married I try to look amazing around him because it's so easy to slide into complacency. I was thinking about this the other day. I never lash out at work, or dress like crap, or just dump all my problems on a colleague. Why was I doing that to WH in the past? Probably because I took him for granted and just assumed he would always settle for whatever I had leftover at the end of the day. That was my mistake, complacency. I also let my resentment build up and instead of approaching him in a loving manner to help out more with the kids and household stuff I would berate him and hen peck him. Looking back I am surprised he didn't tell me to go pound sand much earlier. I had become his mother and not his wife.
Hi Psych
I am glad that you are close to piecing and in a much better place. You are a very hard worker and certainly did everything that you could to save your marriage.
When I came on here, I really wanted to save my marriage. I was (and am) too angry though to really implement what might have worked. And I often look back at how I acted in my marriage and feel shame for not being a perfect wife and partner. I often wonder if I was a better person and spouse, would my ex not have suffered from his addiction problems, went into secret debt, and left me and my son?
When I read this paragraph you wrote, it made me want to play devils advocate and not because I want for you to be angry at your spouse, but because your voice is also mine.
What you are writing sounds exhausting. To have to be constantly on (Like we are at work) And perfect. At all times. When the kids are small, when we are sleep deprived, when we are exhausted. Chances are, our spouses were not perfect either. But we did not do things to betray or end or put at risk our families safety and security.
What makes marriage so much more difficult and perhaps sacred from other relationships like those in work and school is that marriage is supposed to be unconditional (with exception to betrayal and addiction) People, couples do lash out, and dress poorly, and smell bad and get sick and sad and nag. Its what we do because we are human. Our spouses might not like it, but they are just as imperfect and we dealt with them. Now this is not an excuse to not put effort into your relationship. But there should also be a grace period granted by our spouses. I notice a lot of the waywards on this board left after young kids, sickness, death.
That is what marriage is. The hard part is not being prepared for what its really like. Kind of like child birth. You don't really know how painful it is until you experience it. Eventually the pain ends and you have a beautiful gift...that will continue to bring periods of pain but also joy throughout life. I feel like many of these Waywards just deserted at the painful part. I think many of them cannot handle discomfort. But life will always be filled with discomfort, so what will keep them from leaving again if they are not committed through discomfort?
Juju, I just wanted to say this is so eloquently written. This is how it should be, and it feels that there are very few who share this sentiment anymore. I walked on eggshells my whole R and M trying to be the perfect wife because I knew him and I knew if I wasn't, he would ditch me so fast. And when I needed more during ICF and pregnancy and he refused to give it and I finally stood up for my needs, he was out the door so fast, into someone else's arms. I don't regret making my needs known and backing down on my 100% when I needed him. I don't want someone who gives such conditional love.
I don't think I would have made it this long if I had to be on top of my game 24/7. I was falling apart. I read something recently where in a relationship, sometimes you have to be the 80% when the other person can only be the 20% and it flows both ways.
Sorry for the hijack, Sara. Juju really explained what a M and love should be.
