So I had posted earlier, but it was waaaaay to0 personal with too much information. This is an attempt to have a better, more balanced discussion.
BD a month ago. My faults :
Not listening : She'd state her opinions, I'd agree, then do something she perceived to be the opposite of that. Part of this was me interpreting things differently, and part was "[censored], she's just going to blow her stack no matter what I do, so why not do what I think is best." I had a lot of resentment around feeling like she didn't trust me to make decisions because of this.
Not discussing before hand : I'd suggesting something in general, she'd agree it sounded interesting, I'd execute with no regard to how she'd want to do it. This exacerbated my feelings of "She doesn't trust me to do things." It made her feelings of "He doesn't give a [censored] what I think" worse.
Reacting in Anger : I would constantly see her questions as attacks instead of queries, leading her to the 'walking on eggshells' syndrome. This is tied up in my issues as I had a VERY high conflict upbringing. I'm working on lowering my base-level of aggravation.
Avoiding IC for Anger : I'm now in IC, and this has turned out to be a vastly different experience than expected. I went in expecting Anger Mangement, and instead am focusing on Trauma Recovery for some EXTREMELY serious issues from when I was a kid/teenager than pretty much blocked any chances of me working in MC. Going to IC was the most traumatic thing I have done in decades. It has been awful, but also astonishingly enlightening. Two sessions in and I see improvements in myself, and yet I'm still anxious and afraid at the thought of seeing my IC again. And yet I still want to go. As awful as it is, I WANT to go, which is wildly different than my attitude towards MC the previous times.
Her faults : Not many. She tried for years to get things to work. Now she's had it and is a WaW. The only thing I can complain about is that we didn't know about the serious issues affecting me (I didn't know until I tried to set up IC. I had tried in the past and always backed out because it was 'silly' or things were going 'okay' or I didn't 'have time' but really it was my brain trying to keep me out of a situation I was terrified of.)
A secondary complaint would be that we tried the same thing 3 times, it failed 3 times, why not try something new before going for the D? But I can't make that argument with her without it being pursuing and turning her off.
What we tried : 3 separate trips to the MC, each time she was more distressed than the last. Each time, I thought we had made progress, but really I was just doing things to get out of MC.
What I'm doing now :
IC : I have an Anger IC who luckily also deals with PTSD/Trauma, and I've only been to two sessions, but I already am shocked at how much he has helped me. My wife was 100% correct in that I should have done this years ago. Her being right about it just makes her more resentful and sad. She has sad me saying anything about therapy hurts so much, because I should have done it for her and the kids before she asked for a divorce.
DBing : I am working on outside interests. Right now we are taking a day every week to be 'out' without each other to get used to being away from the kids. I've opened up to a small number of friends and my family.
The relationship is broken for her, so there is no "doing the work now", only moving forward with the D. I have realized intellectually that I cannot fix this. Emotionally it is still hard. I make stupid mistakes trying to pull her back to me constantly.
Current plans : We are getting through the holidays before talking to the kids. Then we will look into renting an apartment, and alternate living in the apartment/living with the kids while we get the divorce stuff finalized. We are going to the MC every other week or so, more as a DC than a MC at this point. I'm okay with that. My W kinda hates them because she feels like it turns into the "Subitai Show" where I talk about me and my IC, and I tried to cut that waaaay back this last time, which helped a lot. My goal is to not talk about it at all during DC/MC unless asked.
Books: I have read DB/DR, and I'm applying the LRT and 180s in an attempt to get myself better with where this is heading as fast as possible. Wallowing in it is only going to make things worse. I haven't properly grieved yet, but that will come. Probably after we tell the kids. I know that is going to wreck me. But we should have a separation plan set up by then, to stick to until the D is finalized. In the mean time, I'm picking up The Smart Divorce and some co-parenting/helping kids with divorce recommended by the MC.
Hopes : My HOPE is that my WaW will change her mind before the D is final. To do that, though, I really need to come to peace with the D, and let her have the space and even the D that she wants. I know she won't come back because I've finally gotten off my ass, and the last month has shown me how telling her I'm working is painful to her, but showing her I'm working just might help. I realize that DBing and 180ing is not a "trick" to get your WaS back on board, but a path to self help that can POSSIBLY lead to your WaS seeing you in a new light without the pursuit pressure driving them further away. Even if it fails to lead to R, it should lead to me being a better dad, friend, and person. I feel slightly more whole than I have in a while, even with the D hanging over my head.
OM/OW : I don't think this is an issue yet for either of us. However, once we're physically separated, even if the D isn't final, I would not be surprised if she starts dating. She's an astonishingly amazing woman, and I would date the hell out of her if I could. Sadly, I kinda boned that up. My plans for seeking outside relationships are "Not before D is finalized". My first marriage was torn apart by another man (and, all my current failings back then, but I couldn't see that with the OM to blame) and I couldn't do that to my W. Even if she's open about seeing somebody else, I will wait. For me.
Timeline : She has said she's in no hurry to file, and we have financial stuff to sort out first that will make it easier, but I suspect filing will happen in March... We will likely be physically separating in February. We will be talking to the kids then.
Current Sitch : Sleeping in same bed. Kids don't know. Families know. Going to Xmas with my family. We still say "ILY" to eachother. She says she loves me, but she can't stay with someone who wouldn't change before the BD, as afterwards change is just self serving to save myself, not to help her and her feelings. She's also not wrong. I feel bad, because I had reasons... but are they good enough reasons? That's not up to me. That's up to her.
Bottom Line : I love her, and would do almost anything for her. In this case, working on myself with DBing and ICing to get myself straight for myself and the kids is key. And working on a peaceful D is the least I can do for her. We are both focused on how to make this as painless as possible for the kids. (We disagree on how painful 'as painless as possible' is going to be. She has had very few friends and no family divorce. I, however, am probably overly pessimistic about this.)
Final Thoughts : I believe she loves me, but she has been pushed past the breaking point. I realize there is no 'fixing' this, only hoping that she will agree to piece together a new R, different and hopfully better than the previous one. But there is no "Just going back" to what we had before. I must prepare for us never getting back together, even though I hope for it. And to do that, I must lovingly detatch, GAL, and work on my IC. I need to be the man I know I can be for myself and for my kids.
Me: Mid 40s W : Early 40s M:11 T:13 S, D, both 7-10 BD : 11/2017 Separation : 1/18
Going to IC today. Struggling with not chasing, still. My poor, long suffering WaW is being pretty patient with me. We've not had much of a single 'fight' since BD. She is not getting the support she should be, too, except from a friend or two.
Still no firm date for move-out, we're kind of on hold until after the holidays. We talked a bit last night, and she says she knows I feel like things are 'different' this time, but she has zero optimism or hope left for our M. She says if we ever got back together again, she wouldn't remarry me because it's so hard to separate. She says she plans on never remarrying, because what's the point.
I have clearly damaged her. It [censored] to know someone you care so much for is hurting, and anything you try to do will not help, just hurt them more. I need to focus more on GAL. It's hard, because one of our problems was me NOT talking about things, but 180ing on that just hurts her more right now. That would only be helpful if she was on board for working on the R.
Me: Mid 40s W : Early 40s M:11 T:13 S, D, both 7-10 BD : 11/2017 Separation : 1/18
I'm applying the LRT and 180s in an attempt to get myself better with where this is heading as fast as possible.
Sleeping in same bed. We still say "ILY" to each other.
How are you applying LRT if you are still saying "I love you" to her?!?
I'm still getting there. Mainly, LRT is me working on getting the divorce stuff organized with her, giving her space, making space for myself. I am barely a month out from the BD, so I'm still climbing out of the hole. We don't say that to each other every day, only when we get into a big discussion on what we're going to be doing/saying to family/etc.
We don't have an inciting incident, no EA, PA, abuse, etc, so there is not a lot of fighting and recriminations thrown. She has told me that she doesn't want to talk about her feelings because she doesn't want to hurt me more and make me feel bad about how I made her feel. So we are nowhere near any kind of Recon, so I have to focus on making what we're doing successful.
Me: Mid 40s W : Early 40s M:11 T:13 S, D, both 7-10 BD : 11/2017 Separation : 1/18
Where are your other posts? Can you give us some marital history?
I had the other thread deleted. WaW knows about the book, (she asked me what I was reading when I mentioned I was working on myself with IC and self help books when talking together with a C. I wasn't going to lie about it, so I told her.) and I didn't want my raw posts laying around for her to see if she stumbles across the forums.
Me: Mid 40s W : Early 40s M:11 T:13 S, D, both 7-10 BD : 11/2017 Separation : 1/18
Married 11 years... together 13. It's my second marriage. Got married right out of college and it didn't last a year (EA if not a PA) and I handled that terribly.
We have a lot of good times together, but when we would disagree about things it would get bad, and she doesn't like who she is when we're fighting and doesn't understand why I would be so defensive and mean when we'd fight. And it would be over things we shouldn't have fought over, like if we got lunch early enough for the kids to not have meltdowns. She would say "Man, we should have gotten D some lunch earlier!" and I would blow up about it. I got EXTREMELY defensive at perceived criticism. She got to the point where she didn't want to talk to me about things just to avoid me being a jerk. As I said above, 3 trips to the same MC, 3 times I worked on not doing the specific things brought up without addressing the underlying problems.
Things obviously got harder with kids, and I never really got to 'reset' my fight or flight meters because there was always something going on with the kids/dogs ratcheting me up. I focused all my 'repair' work on the kids, really, and not enough on my wife.
My current IC guy is working on trauma therapy with me, not AM. He says I need to work on resetting my body's base levels of arousal (not the sexy kind) so that I can actually work on things in a productive manner, and talk to my wife in a productive manner.
I have to say, he's been right on the money. I'm far from 'cured' but just paying attention to my baseline of comfortable/twitchiness/etc has been amazing. I'm way calmer with the kids/dogs, way less defensive with my wife, and so much more able to hear her when she says things to me. And when I screw up, I'm not flipping into instant "I'm a failure, nobody will ever love me" mode that I totally get into, for reasons I'm just coming to grips with.
Basically, I'm a big old mess, and I'm trying to pull it together as quickly as possible to keep from making things worse for me and my W, regardless of saving the marriage. She wants to 50/50 the kids, and bless her for that.
I would LOVE to save the M, but I doubt I can get past the years of debt I have built up around this. That being said, trying to save the M looks like exactly the same thing as making myself as whole as possible when S and D comes, so why not?
I love her. She's been my best friend for over a decade. I still see the same woman when we talk. I'm trying not to project too much onto her because her feelings are way more complicated than being mad, hurt, or resentful. We still make each other laugh and smile.
Any specific questions?
Me: Mid 40s W : Early 40s M:11 T:13 S, D, both 7-10 BD : 11/2017 Separation : 1/18
It [censored] to know someone you care so much for is hurting, and anything you try to do will not help, just hurt them more. I need to focus more on GAL. It's hard, because one of our problems was me NOT talking about things, but 180ing on that just hurts her more right now. That would only be helpful if she was on board for working on the R.