WW ended EA 4 mos ago; trying to restore intimacy

[hoosjim]

Even if she paid by cash, there would be a withdrawal record on the account. The money didn't just come out of nowhere.

You're going to laugh, but they're actually doesn't have to be a record. She pays for a lot of things in cash, and doesn't always put her money in the bank. Comes from a blue collar family with a lot of mistrust of the system in Banks and such, Etc. LOL. Sometimes she'll have as much as a couple thousand dollars in cash just laying around that she hasn't deposited or else has cashed out of and carries around. Always has, even though I've tried to break her of that habit. Amongst other things she feels that makes her less likely to run up credit card debt. Also, of course, makes her harder to track, LOL.

Your point, and everyone else's, however, are still very well taken. I shouldn't feel bad about making that inquiry. It's just that given the facts and circumstances, and the current dynamic, I am wondering how productive such an inquiry would be and what it would achieve.

[Maika]

Haha! The old 'money under the mattress trick' huh... I totally didn't consider that lol.

Well, maybe you take all of this info and analysis and just tuck it into your back pocket for now. Just continue to observe and see what she keeps doing. If she has deceived you and you don't bring any of this up, she probably will believe she's gotten away with it. And human nature is such that we will try and do that again because she will feel like you've stopped looking.

I dunno. I may be full of crap here.

[doodler]

I have a cautionary tale. I decided to buy a cloak of invisibility, similar to the one that Harry Potter had, so I could snoop on my wife. I found a vendor that was selling them on the darknet and it was expensive. I bought a cloak and it arrived five days later. Apparently I dropped it when I was opening the box. It was invisible so I couldn't find it. I emailed the vendor, but they wouldn't refund my money unless I returned the product. I was totally bummed.

[LH19]

Jim,

Man I really am rooting for you but you have a come back and an excuse for everything. I sometimes get a headache reading your posts.

I can't imagine how exhausting your life is with cheater phones, tracking devices friends who are cheaters etc......

I think it is times to have a simple conversation in the likes of "baby you are either all in or you are out".

Good luck to you man!

[hoosjim]

More smoke?

So, today is her early day from work, meeting she usually gets off early if things aren't too crazy. So, she calls me up to tell me she is going to the mall to do some shopping, to hopefully find an outfit she can wear to her office Christmas party this weekend, and to maybe buy something for my stepmother for Christmas. She says, oh, I think I'll stop by store X, because you were pretty lucky finding something for yourself to wear there. Now, there are three or four store exes around our town, and the one I went to is near my work. But she says to me, oh well I can go out to the mall, and then since it's on the way, I can stop at the store X Out near there. Thing is, the store X out there is in the exact same strip mall as the pub where om hangs out. not in the mood to play any games, I say are you sure you want to stop out there? That's right next to the pub, and you know he hangs out there a lot particularly on Fridays. Is that the position you want to put yourself in? So she says, hang out where, it's tore ex? And she kind of laughs like a joke. So I say kind of joking it myself that store X if you added booze might actually be a pretty good place to hang out at, but that I actually met the pub, and she says oh.


So, I track her phone, and she doesn't go there. But wondering if this is yet another smoke signal that I should be heeding.

An update: check the whereabouts a couple of more times, and she actually did go to store X. To all appearances she went in the store X and came out store X. And then drove right by the front of the pub where om hangs out. She couldn't have gone in giving the time frames involved. Still. Damn it. Be a lot easier if you were just seeing him. But this could be just typical Affair recovery. plus, don't know that I can tell her I'm tracking her today even though she knows I have that capability on her phone. Damn damn damn.




I mean, it's almost like she's daring me to say, I tracked you and know that you went and drove by the OM hang out. I mean, she knows that I can track her phone, and she has to know from our conversation that I pretty much didn't want her going out there, and of course i reinforced that I'm well aware that that's where the OM hangout is. I mean, the last thing she said to me was "oh I'm not going in there" (meaning OM'S hangout), but, cmon. And she had already been to mall and bought something (she just called but said nothing about store x).

I think she and I just need to have a talk tonight. Not confronting her about all of this specifically, but talking about where we are. We haven't really had a relationship talk in a few weeks now. Since just after our last counseling session. So it's probably been 3 weeks. Way overdue, and obviously I do have some concerns.

[joejoe1]

Doddler,

I love it. I wonder if someone is will trip over the coat.

[rexgm]

H,

I was wondering have you two read the book "after the affair"? I am listening to it and it is actually pretty interesting. It gives points of view for both parties, the one who committed the affair and the one hurt by it. It lets you know what to expect and how to deal with the feelings in a constructive way.

[sandi2]

[quote]So, she calls me up to tell me she is going to the mall to do some shopping, to hopefully find an outfit she can wear to her office Christmas party this weekend, and to maybe buy something for my stepmother for Christmas. She says, oh, I think I'll stop by store X, because you were pretty lucky finding something for yourself to wear there. Now, there are three or four store exes around our town, and the one I went to is near my work. But she says to me, oh well I can go out to the mall, and then since it's on the way, I can stop at the store X Out near there. Thing is, the store X out there is in the exact same strip mall as the pub where om hangs out. not in the mood to play any games, I say are you sure you want to stop out there? That's right next to the pub, and you know he hangs out there a lot particularly on Fridays. Is that the position you want to put yourself in? So she says, hang out where, it's tore ex? And she kind of laughs like a joke[/quote]

I don't like it. She is giving too much excuse for why she's going out that way.......and that looks suspiciously like a smoke screen. She knows you can track her, so she's trying to sound so legit and innocent by choosing to drive out of the way to end up next door to OM's hangout. But she gives herself away by laughing at what you said.....as if the thought never entered her mind that it is next door to where they use to meet.....and that is where she slipped up.

Even if she was ever-so-over OM (which she's not), she should have considered your feelings; considered how it could look suspicious; be smart enough to know the temptations and the havoc it has with her emotions; and realize it's not worth being set back at ground zero again. She is suppose to striving to avoid getting anywhere in the vicinity of OM. It is much too soon to take those type of risks.

I have tried to give her the benefit of doubt, but I am concerned that she is being pulled back into that seduction again. It seems that ever since her weekend stay with BFF, she has been "off". She has been distant and moody......which goes along with the withdrawals. However, when some women are feeling these low emotions and think there is too much work in trying to revive their MR........they will tempt fate by seeing the OM once again. If her old feelings for him are stirred again, then she stupidly thinks it is meant to be......and it must be true love. That's why this time in her withdrawal period is critical.

If you feel that no action would be effective, then that's your decision to make. This is your life, Jim. You are the one to live with the outcome. Frankly, unless you followed her and spied on her to see if she met up with the OM, it would still be a lot of guess work.

After the holidays (if not before the new year), I think you need to take charge in setting up more MC and doing the homework, instead of waiting on her. If she balks, then I think it will be a bad sign.

In the meantime, I suggest you do something fun with her this weekend. See how it goes.

[hoosjim]

I have tried to give her the benefit of doubt, but I am concerned that she is being pulled back into that seduction again. It seems that ever since her weekend stay with BFF, she has been "off".

I did a little detective work due to the mounting "signs" of trouble. Checked her texts when she left her phone around, as she often does these days. Bff has definitely been preaching the "You need to pick You", "You and never had those smiles and laughter through the years, and we deserved to" sermon to my W, at least in recent texts leading up to their dinner on Thursday. She's also playing on the lever of my wife's "blueness" around holidays. (W responded to her at one point saying-- "I don[t know if there is any holiday i can recall since i was a kid that is worth remembering"--Ouch.)

I don't like it. She is giving too much excuse for why she's going out that way.......and that looks suspiciously like a smoke screen

At least she brought it up to me, albeit casually, before I had a chance to bring it up (I was not going to accuse her of going there, but just tell her i was troubled by her plan to go out there when we talked and her nonchalance about it). She said, "oh, there's another "store X"... i stopped by there for a few minutes today on the way back but didn't find anything. I did not respond or comment. I'm going to talk to her tonight... about a few things, including that.

In the meantime, I suggest you do something fun with her this weekend. See how it goes.

I may have really screwed this part up. Went out last night and had a REALLY good time... until we both had a bit too much to drink. Had a talk under less than ideal circumstances. At one point she said "well what would you normally be doing with a girl under these circumstances". I tried to kiss her, it was not returned. There's more and will fill you in later, but... not a great ending to the eveining.

[hoosjim]

Okay, so more color on last night (please read previous post, too, if cadet has not yet consolidated).

We went out, planning to meet another couple (who, actually, are also in a stressed relationship, though no infidelity AFAIK). I had found a karaoke night (something we both enjoy-- her watching, me sometimes singing) at a pub we both like, and this other couple (W is pretty good friends with the woman, who is a good singer and also enjoys karaoke) were supposed to meet us out. Karaoke ended up bieng a bust but we had a lot of fun talking and joking with our waitress and the table next to us (and with each other), but eventually we contacted the other couple to meet us at a different local establishment where there was a good C&W band playing. The other woman's husband didn't feel well and opted not to show, but W and I and friend had a really good time talking and chatting, and I think W was pretty impressed with how well I interacted with her friend and kept them both laughing and entertained (and I think I won her friend-- who I know had been skeptical about me after the long years of my neglecting my W-- over to "my corner" a bit.)

Then, her friend left, and things went to heck a bit. W and I decided to have "one more drink", which was prolly one too many for me, and possibly for her, as she seemed to get tipsy earlier than normal last night. At any rate, my tongue was loosed a little too much, and I go a little too cocky and self-assured. Ended up talking about one of my old flames-- came up in connection with another story i was telling wife in response to a question she asked about "who i trusted", and I know (and should have remembered) that that (old GFs) is a sensitive subject for my W who always holds herself up to disfavorable comparison when other girls are the subject. And of course I had to mention how good looking this girl was. Stupid. Then we get talking to one of the bartenders there, who works at another bar-- a C/W bar W and I have discussed going to-- and he invites us to come out there some night, and I let slip that I had already been (which i had months ago when W was off on one of her weekenders with bff) even though i had told W i hadn't... and she immediately wanted to know (sounding innocent when asking) "I thought you'd never been? Did you go with _______________? [name of the cute bartender at my regular watering hole who my W thinks has an interest in me and who I probably mentioned one too many times last night--she has become a bit of a friend and confidante, but there is nothing between us although she is young and very cute and W definitely thinks she's in to me-- which I kinda doubt but... whatever.] I said "no, of course not. I just stuck my head in there on one of the weekends you were away" Which was true, but i think i had told her previously id never been there. So that looked bad... Especially since i had also told her in the past that cute bartender was familiar with the place and went there from time to time.

Finally, back home, and things were a little foggy... we sat in bed and talked. I had wanted to "talk" earlier, about a few things, but she had deflected. Not 100% sure what all was ultimately said last night, but at some point it involved me saying something like (and remember this is pretty foggy) "You know who some of the women i've been involved with are (a lingerie model, a college cheerleader) and I know you've told me in the past you feel bad about yourself but... you need to know that you have enthralled me like no other woman before, your physical beauty, your inner beauty, all of it... you're everything i would ever want in a woman" (Or something like that). Bleah. Bad, sappy, I'm-too-drunk thing to say. Not sure I can remember how well it went over or not. I also recall telling her, as I have in the past, that sometimes I feel like the "rules with her right now are different than they would be right now with pretty much any other woman on the planet." Which is when she gave me the "well what would you be doing right now if the rules weren't different" or "Why don't you just do what you would normally do" or something to that effect (dont recall exactly) Which is when I tried to kiss her, or did kiss her, actually, I say "try" because it was not returned. And what came immediately thereafter is blank and I can't remember what either of us said.

This morning I tried to apologize for being too drunk and she said "you were fine." She sounded sincere... of course she also sounded sincere the night back in May when she said much the same after i had gotten over the top drunk, yelled at her bff, and passed out and gotten sick at the house after which she ubered out to rendezvous with Om and bff. She didn't do that last night--,meaning go meet bff/om, but i am not sure she would tell me she were ticked at me even if she were.

She was VERY tired tonight--we were up past 3 and her whole office had to go into work this morning at 8 oclock for a couple of hours, and she's also coming down with a cold. So, I didn't get the chance to talk with her.

I really want to know how SHE's feeling right now-- we havent had a MR talk in like 3-4 weeks-- and to apologize for putting pressure on her last night and for becoming too me-focused and talking about my former GF's which i know has hurt her in the past. But I also want to talk to her about affair recovery and about her going so close to OM's hangout on Friday. I really thought the way you put it was marvellous:

Even if she was ever-so-over OM (which she's not), she should have considered your feelings; considered how it could look suspicious; be smart enough to know the temptations and the havoc it has with her emotions; and realize it's not worth being set back at ground zero again. She is suppose to striving to avoid getting anywhere in the vicinity of OM. It is much too soon to take those type of risks.

I REALLY wish she would go get some IC as MC suggested. She definitely could use the third party insight on affair addictiveness and recovery(MC has already told us it can take a year or so) as well as about her own inner unhappiness. She was really energized about some of the self-exploration stuff immediately following our last session four weeks ago, but she rapidly tailed off.

I am trying so hard to be "Christian" about the way i live life and feel about people, but sometimes i really wish bff would just go crawl in a hole and disappear. The way W smooches up to her is almost like a lover or something: "Am i going to be able to get my bff time before you go away for three weeks?" And she is such such SUCH a bad influence on my W. Idunno, maybe my W will "give in to the dark side" with bff and end up being like AnotherStander's, changing to the point I don't recognize her. I hope not because i still see the sweetness and goodness in her that i fell in love with but... people change. And I know sometimes especially it can happen with women when they are going through menopause as my W currently is.



Retraction ftom two posts above. There were NOT missing/deleted texts between W and bff. I misread the online log. All texts accounted for