Gordie: waiting for MLC W to sign the D papers

[OwnIt]

I know there are a lot of people on this site, and others, who focus on the OP and how evil, awful, etc. they are. I do admit that from time to time I wonder, why would a divorced mother of three who has to know his immediate history be with him while married, and making no effort to end it. Where do they find these people?

But, you know that the violator here is her. She is the mother, the wife, the one who took the vows. She is allowing her children to be innocent projectiles bringing you more pain. Although it is difficult, I think when that happens, you need to focus on the fact that SHE has done this, SHE has allowed this. SHE is the one in the wrong. Focusing on this man is just a distraction from reality, your work, and your recovery from what is clearly an abusive situation.

I read some threads with really nasty, mean guys saying and doing nasty things to their Ws and involving their children and I feel such disgust. I know when I read your thread I will hear the voice of a kind, generous, loving man who is doing his best to bring peace, humanity, and healing to a very dark and difficult place.

Sometimes I hate my H. Sometimes I feel sorry for him. Somethings I find the whole situation humorous. What I don't do is take that out on him or my kids. I am proud of myself for that.

[Ginger1]

One more thing: I know it’s not their fault but when the little kids talk about OM2 and their activities with him and the gifts he buys them, it drives me nuts. It’s emotionally torturing me. Argh!!!

Yes Gordie, it hurts like a b!tch and I am sorry you have to experience this. This was the hardest part of the whole D for me. My daughter was a baby when OW came into her life. I'll never forget when she came home from her dad's house and she was just learning to talk. And she was talking about someone she called "hiya". I realized it was OWW, who's name is "heather". I went nuts, in private of course. And to this day, at 10 years old, that's what my daughter calls her. It still makes me twitch every time I hear it.

You know how parents say they would throw themselves in front a bus for their kids, or take a bullet? When that is what we are doing. Although sometimes this may actually hurt more.

Just remember anytime you think you would take a bullet for your children, you actually are. And that's what kind of fabulous father you. Just remember that. be the man and father you want to be regardless of the mother your ex is right now.

Oh, and Ownit said it right. I agree with everything she says.

[Gordie]

Ownit: I know there are a lot of people on this site, and others, who focus on the OP and how evil, awful, etc. they are. I do admit that from time to time I wonder, why would a divorced mother of three who has to know his immediate history be with him while married, and making no effort to end it. Where do they find these people?

G: I get this feeling that there are a lot of folks who have no problem getting together with married folks. A friend’s w even accepted a m proposal while their d was still pending.

O: But, you know that the violator here is her. She is the mother, the wife, the one who took the vows. She is allowing her children to be innocent projectiles bringing you more pain. Although it is difficult, I think when that happens, you need to focus on the fact that SHE has done this, SHE has allowed this. SHE is the one in the wrong. Focusing on this man is just a distraction from reality, your work, and your recovery from what is clearly an abusive situation.

G: you are right. I have never focused on OM1 or OM2 but the unwanted thoughts do come. I think it’s easier to hate on OMs than to hate on STBX. I see folks here trying to mitigate their own pain by blaming OM or MLC or whatever. It hurts less than to just accept that STBX is rejecting me.

O: I read some threads with really nasty, mean guys saying and doing nasty things to their Ws and involving their children and I feel such disgust. I know when I read your thread I will hear the voice of a kind, generous, loving man who is doing his best to bring peace, humanity, and healing to a very dark and difficult place.

G: thanks. Even after all she’s done, I’m just not a nasty guy who does or says nasty things. Am I tempted? You bet. But...I don’t want to be that guy. That’s not me. Part of th reason why I don’t want to meet OM2 is that I want to avoid the temptation of taking it out on him.

O: Sometimes I hate my H. Sometimes I feel sorry for him. Somethings I find the whole situation humorous. What I don't do is take that out on him or my kids. I am proud of myself for that.

G: that is awesome and I hope I will always be able to say the same.

[Gordie]

Ginger: Yes Gordie, it hurts like a b!tch and I am sorry you have to experience this. This was the hardest part of the whole D for me. My daughter was a baby when OW came into her life. I'll never forget when she came home from her dad's house and she was just learning to talk. And she was talking about someone she called "hiya". I realized it was OWW, who's name is "heather". I went nuts, in private of course. And to this day, at 10 years old, that's what my daughter calls her. It still makes me twitch every time I hear it.

Gordie: yes, that’s it. I twitch. I cringe. But I say nothing.

Ginger: You know how parents say they would throw themselves in front a bus for their kids, or take a bullet? When that is what we are doing. Although sometimes this may actually hurt more.

Gordie: wow, just wow.

Ginger: Just remember anytime you think you would take a bullet for your children, you actually are. And that's what kind of fabulous father you. Just remember that. be the man and father you want to be regardless of the mother your ex is right now.

Gordie: that is some a$$ kicking advice, thank you, thank you.

[SBJ]

Gord, you are totally right in your feelings of betrayal and disgust of what your w has done to you and your children. The sad part is that most of us here signed on for the whole "for better or worse" part of the vows too, and I'm sure that most of us meant it. We would do whatever it took to figure out what is wrong and make it better.

The way I see it is that right now they are kind of sick and definitely are totally confused. Much of what they are doing, they are doing because they, instead of trying to fix what is wrong, are searching for their elusive happiness outside of their covenant relationship.

I don't know this pain that you are going thru because my ex has either shielded my kids from the OM that she had the EA with, or she is not in that any more. I don't know and really don't care to know. I am sorry that you are having to deal with this, but remember that when you feel that you are about to explode you can come here and open up a can of verbal whoopa$$ and let that frustration go.

I know that this time of year is tough on us all, but I hope and pray that you have a good Thanksgiving.

By the way, I will tell you that time spent hunting with family and friends does help clear your heart, mind and soul. If you get a chance get out in the woods. It works.

[CaliGuy]

Gordie

Eye on the prize here ... you have already achieved 50/50 which many fathers out there wish they could get. We are fortunate as 20-30 years ago we would get every other weekend at best but the courts and society are starting to realize fathers are just important as mothers in a child's upbringing. So I am sure you will get over that last financial hurdle as she will be focused on that shiny new life that awaits her ... this gets brighter the closer we get to 2018. As I type this I find myself in a similar position ... my MLCr too has agreed on 50/50 but we are no where close on anything else so its another court date in Jan. As bad as she wants D she wants the $$ more, sometimes ya have to laugh.

As far as OM, I feel for you there. My S refers to OM as D-Bag and to her credit he has not been around since Feb15 but I would guess he is still in the picture, only a guess and really makes no difference anymore tbh. I did like Gingers Bullet take on that topic and would have to agree to take that approach. Just keep this in mind, Holidays are tough, you may want to rethink what you do and with who .... I know kids are involved but you both will have to figure out this time of year given the D process. Bigger point is what can you feel comfortable with, I was no longer going to fake family and allow her to eat cake .... reading along with your sitch she loves her cake.

[Gordie]

SBJ: you are totally right in your feelings of betrayal and disgust of what your w has done to you and your children. The sad part is that most of us here signed on for the whole "for better or worse" part of the vows too, and I'm sure that most of us meant it. We would do whatever it took to figure out what is wrong and make it better.

G: the one time early I asked about vows I got this: I feel dead so fulfilled until death do we part.

SBJ: The way I see it is that right now they are kind of sick and definitely are totally confused. Much of what they are doing, they are doing because they, instead of trying to fix what is wrong, are searching for their elusive happiness outside of their covenant relationship.

G: sometimes I feel this way too but sickness absolves them of responsibility. I think stbx knows exactly what she’s doing and feels no guilt about it. As all of you have predicted, I have never seen any sign of guilt of remorse. It is what it is. Love is a choice. D is a choice too.

SBJ: I don't know this pain that you are going thru because my ex has either shielded my kids from the OM that she had the EA with, or she is not in that any more. I don't know and really don't care to know. I am sorry that you are having to deal with this, but remember that when you feel that you are about to explode you can come here and open up a can of verbal whoopa$$ and let that frustration go.

G: exactly. Sometimes the stuff is so nutty I’m embarrassed to even admit it to my supportive friends. Here, I know you guys understand.

SBJ: I know that this time of year is tough on us all, but I hope and pray that you have a good Thanksgiving.

G: gonna do my best and hope it want a mistake for us to celebrate together

SBJ: By the way, I will tell you that time spent hunting with family and friends does help clear your heart, mind and soul. If you get a chance get out in the woods. It works.

G: I haven’t been in a tree stand in over a decade. I may just plan a trip with my eldest.

[Gordie]

Cali: Eye on the prize here ... you have already achieved 50/50 which many fathers out there wish they could get. We are fortunate as 20-30 years ago we would get every other weekend at best but the courts and society are starting to realize fathers are just important as mothers in a child's upbringing.

H: this is what I am most thankful about this year. Here’s my traditional/sexist view. I always believed and acted as if the mother is the center of the family. SAHM was primary parent and I was secondary. I thought this was the perfect model. Well, since b d I have made every effort to up my game. I have always been involved but now much more so with the confidence I can do this without stbx. No, it’s not what I wanted but as Irish has told me, there’s no better job in the world.

SBJ: So I am sure you will get over that last financial hurdle as she will be focused on that shiny new life that awaits her ... this gets brighter the closer we get to 2018. As I type this I find myself in a similar position ... my MLCr too has agreed on 50/50 but we are no where close on anything else so its another court date in Jan. As bad as she wants D she wants the $$ more, sometimes ya have to laugh.

G: I was shocked she cared more about the $$$ than the custody agreement.

SBJ: As far as OM, I feel for you there. My S refers to OM as D-Bag and to her credit he has not been around since Feb15 but I would guess he is still in the picture, only a guess and really makes no difference anymore tbh. I did like Gingers Bullet take on that topic and would have to agree to take that approach. Just keep this in mind, Holidays are tough, you may want to rethink what you do and with who .... I know kids are involved but you both will have to figure out this time of year given the D process. Bigger point is what can you feel comfortable with, I was no longer going to fake family and allow her to eat cake .... reading along with your sitch she loves her cake.

G: she loves cake and I know she’s gonna keep asking for more after d. I haven’t figured out my boundaries on that yet and will ask for advice as that time approaches.

[Gordie]

So frustrated. We agreed on the final financial point and then she changes her mind and now stbx wants even more money. Back to the drawing table. It is amazing to me she gave me everything I wanted on custody (thank God) but on the financial settlement, she just can’t get enough. I almost raged tonight but kept it in check. I did say I was very frustrated that I just spent $$$ changing the agreement to what we had discussed and now she is changing her mind.

[AndrewP]

CaliGuy once wrote on my thread "custody of the cats crazy". when I was talking about my own process. Even though my agreement is still not signed due to external reasons with the lawyer's office, I'm glad that it didn't come to that.

Reality is starting to bite your STBX on the derrierre (hey that didn't get censored!) and she doesn't like it.

To look at this crassly from the outside, she's chosen a lower quality OM and is realizing that she "needs" you to pay all the bills.

One of the things that worries me in your case is that I believe that the new tax bill has passed part way through to becoming law and that has huge implications on spousal support in the US (fortunately not for me). I presume you are staying on top of that but the clock is ticking. So - realistically you have deals before 1-Jan and those after and they need to operate on completely different math.

I think we can assume that she will not be good with money especially at the outset. Your lawyer will give you much better advice than anything that I have typed and deleted three times here.

Do you think that the 1-Jan deadline can be used as leverage to get the deal on the table signed? Otherwise as you say, it's back to the drawing board. Realistically if you wanted to play hard-ball you could just move out and then oblige her to file for temporary support. Often temporary support orders from what I understand are made final. From what I've also read if you go before a judge and shove things along that way they will often look at the existing agreement proposals say "that looks fair" and bang the gavel on it.

Good luck. Team Gordie is standing shoulder to shoulder with you.