So I want to save my marriage. I just don't know where to begin.
OK...lets talk through this.
Originally Posted By: Daystar
Last night I went out with my brother who I hadn't seen in 24 years. First thing I have done for me in a very long time. It was nice a good meal and some sleep does the mind wonders.
Agree. Now what is your next GAL plan?
Weekend is here. So child care leaves. Probably take the kids out to Bonnie Springs. Clean up the house and just enjoy some time with them.
Originally Posted By: Daystar
So my W is right I don't trust her. The affairs complicate that but it is my choice not to even try. So pretty sure that would be a good step 1. Worst comes to worst she gets it back and loses it again. In which case I leave for me.
Wait...what? You think right now is a good time to START trusting her? Are you serious? Shes talking about separating and you want to start implicitly trusting her? That makes no sense.
Right now, you need to stop engaging and asking questions, because she is likely LYING to you at every turn.
I get it that you should be more trustING....but not to W right now. To friends, family, etc, sure.
As a general rule I am very trusting. Unless I have reason to believe I am being lied too. As too her, would love for her to be honest. Only the other hand I am not sure I want the truth.
Guess that leaves only disengage and act like she doesn't exist at all.
Originally Posted By: Daystar
Pretty sure she feels unappreciated or unneeded since I make enough money to pay all of the bills. Plus the extra stuff for the kids and everyone. So going to stop doing that and have her pay half. Should be a decent step 2.
You are going to stop paying her bills to make her feel more appreciated? Huh?
Yes. You should have her pay for her share of the bills. BECAUSE she wants to SEPARATE. Because it isnt your job to pay for her party girl lifestyle.
Yu, on the other hand, should work to be more appreciatIVE. Again, not necessarily to HER, but as a general person. Friends, colleagues, family, etc.
I have been more appreciative to the other people in the home. Don't really have any friends where I live anymore. The majority of them moved out of town this year. So need to find a hobby group and make some new ones.
Originally Posted By: Daystar
If I can get the fighting to stop. Since if she is open to date nights. If not I can just go out by myself and play pool or something. Time away from the house and responsibility seems to be good for me.
You get the fighting to stop by NOT FIGHTING with her. If she starts to escalate, then you say "Lets revisit this when you are calm and we can talk rationally." And then LEAVE. Let her yell at the air or the walls.
Regardless, NOW is NOT the time to be trying to date her. She said she wants to DIVORCE you. Why would you want to pressure her into spending MORE time with you?
Given how we have been fighting lately. I really don't want to be around her at all. She is out of town for 4 days this weekend. So shutting the phone off. If she wants to talk to the children she can call her brother since he lives with us.
Only looming problem I see about not talking at all. Is Thanksgiving is this week and we have family coming into town. My sons birthday is on that Friday. No arrangements have been made for either.
Of course I could make the arrangements and handle it all myself.
So the dynamic in my marriage has always been this. I would work she would take the kids to and from school. And stay at home with the youngest. She is in the navy reserves and she would leave for a two weeks a month at a time. 3 or 4 times a year.
So after the affairs when she was away I always thought she was cheating. So I chose to drink. And pretty much get caught up in looking for her to be lying. So that is definitely on me. When in the those moods I was horrible for the kids. Also I had help with the children. So it was a chance to get out and unwind.
Most weekends I spent just taking care of the kids and cooking / cleaning. Occasionally I might go to the swap meet with a friend. But largely it was taking care of things going on at the house.
So she started complaining about being at home all the time. So I asked her to get a job to help out. It wasn't about the money it was just about her getting out of the house. Making some friends and just a change of pace. That seemed to make things worse. Since we never spent any time together. Our schedules didn't match. Plus she would always volunteer for extra things. So it seemed like she didn't want to be at home. So I asked to her to talk to me before volunteering. That way we could discuss what it might affect. She felt that I was being controlling.
No matter what she has ever done or what problems it created. I have always been there to make sure it works. That is something she told my 17 year old daughter, who is her best friend by the way. I will never let her fail and she knows it.
At one point after she asked for the divorce. It seemed like we were going to work on the marriage and get things back on track. She doesn't know what I wanted to change about me with hypnotherapy. Part of it was my self-esteem the other was forgiveness. My therapy actually has nothing to do with drinking. I figured out why I was drinking and decided to change that directly. It has helped with forgiveness. See I don't resent her anymore or her choices. Or even the cheating anymore. And I do want to trust her completely.
Unintended side effect of making those changes is I realized I was being treated unfairly in the relationship. That at some point I had become an enabler. It wasn't my fault she cheated. It was completely on her. That she didn't respect me or care about me. Basically I was a pay check to support her and her family.
Almost all of the fighting lately has been in response to my establishing boundaries and attempting to enforce them.
My thinking is as follows. She is going to be deployed for 9 months and come home. Then tell me to move out. Since she doesn't want me to move out until after she is back from her deployment. She wants the divorce to do what she wants and not get punished by the navy. While I stay at home and take care of our children.
I asked her why should I stay? The outcome isn't any different. It isn't in my best interest to continue the relationship at the point. Her answer was it is what is best for the children.
See I am the type of guy I will give up anything for my children. They are my entire world and I want to be there with them while they grow up. Also I love my life tremendously but I let her walk on me for so long.
I told her if she wants to go out party, and sleep around then go for it. Just don't come home anymore. I deserved to be treated better and so do her children. Of course she took that as I was throwing her out. Funny how that works.
My W doesn't really understand me. A lot of her behaviors were let go because we were married and I love her. At the end of the day if we are not together then it won't be tolerated. It is a lot like the children I don't enjoy punishing them. But if the action merits the response so be it.
Hell I stopped talking to my own mother for 5 years because she called my W a whore and a slut. I love my mother but that wasn't okay and it took 5 years for her to apologize.
So the second affair took place after her grand-parents died and her first month long deployment. She went to Virginia and would call to talk to me but wouldn't stop talking about this guy.
So I asked her to stop talking to him. She refused and said I wasn't being understanding of how she was feeling. That I couldn't tell her who she could talk too or not talk too. At that point I violated her trust and started watching the telephone records. A habit that didn't stop until about 2 months ago. So I could see she would call me talk for 5 minutes and text him the rest of the night. She kept saying nothing was going on until she got back. But we were fighting the entire time over him.
Her first night back, I walk outside and she is on the phone with him. So I take her phone and read there texts and it confirmed they had been sleeping together almost the entire time.
We would fight over it almost another 4 months. It only ended when she found out he was married and he had lied to her. In retrospect, I could have told her he was married. Since I had gathered information on him. I never told his wife. I did talk to him and tell him if it didn't end. I was going to inform the Navy and his wife.
Needless to say that didn't sit well with my W. I spent a lot of that time drinking and doing my own thing. Mainly drinking and playing games. She had given our children to her mother and wouldn't let them come and see me. Eventually she got a job and place in Vegas.
When it was time for her to move she gave me a choice stay in Sacramento or move with her and see my children. After we moved down to Vegas at some point just were back together like nothing ever happened.
It's almost like having to drag the information out of them is harder to deal with than the affair. Why they just can't come clean I'll never know...and then the rug sweeping is another thing they do.
Believe me rug sweeping is just the pits and never works. Everything needs to be dealt with before you can put it all behind you, some of them just don't get it!
It's taken me a few weeks of therapy to help me see this. Even though I knew it I needed to hear it from someone else. She's helped me see a lot of things clearly.
You have a lot to work your way through. I wish you strength to do so. Forgive me, I have read your thread but not all. Do you see an IC?
Me 50 H 48 S 23 S 21 D 19 Together 31 years Married 25 years Separated April 2009 Reconciled 2010 Separated September 2017
It's almost like having to drag the information out of them is harder to deal with than the affair. Why they just can't come clean I'll never know...and then the rug sweeping is another thing they do.
Believe me rug sweeping is just the pits and never works. Everything needs to be dealt with before you can put it all behind you, some of them just don't get it!
It's taken me a few weeks of therapy to help me see this. Even though I knew it I needed to hear it from someone else. She's helped me see a lot of things clearly.
You have a lot to work your way through. I wish you strength to do so. Forgive me, I have read your thread but not all. Do you see an IC?
No I have been seeing an hypno-therapist. Find it more helpful than venting about the problems. I am a thinker so unless my therapist can convince me it will work it causes issues. So opted for non-traditional therapy that is focused on results not the cause.
I don't like how you have been treating me. Against common belief I am not a door mat. I don't do things because I am told too. We spend a lot of time talking about why you are unhappy. Which is okay I am more than happy to listen when you are being genuine, honest and open.
Thing is it feels like you expect me to accept one word vague answers. I am not a mind reader. I don't know how or what you are feeling unless you tell me. I do ask questions that you refuse to answer. That in asking questions I must be accusing you, calling you a liar or the answer isn't good enough. It is infuriating to ask a question in order to understand and suddenly be the bad guy.
Just because you are angry you don't get to tell me what trash I am or how it is my fault your life [censored]. Guess what you were there and had more than equal part in the decisions that got us here. Unless you are perfect and never say things you don't mean when angry. Show a hair of empathy when I apologize. Also food for thought, try it some time you would be amazed at how it helps.
On the I need to stay and take of the kids while you are deployed than leave when you get back. That some how it is my responsibility to provide financially for you is amazingly naivete, delusional, or selfish. This ongoing belief that because you want a divorce, you are some how entitled to treat me as you please and that I am supposed to take it. It is just flabbergasting to the point of inanity.
I don't like how you have been treating me. Against common belief I am not a door mat. I don't do things because I am told too. We spend a lot of time talking about why you are unhappy. Which is okay I am more than happy to listen when you are being genuine, honest and open.
Thing is it feels like you expect me to accept one word vague answers. I am not a mind reader. I don't know how or what you are feeling unless you tell me. I do ask questions that you refuse to answer. That in asking questions I must be accusing you, calling you a liar or the answer isn't good enough. It is infuriating to ask a question in order to understand and suddenly be the bad guy.
Just because you are angry you don't get to tell me what trash I am or how it is my fault your life [censored]. Guess what you were there and had more than equal part in the decisions that got us here. Unless you are perfect and never say things you don't mean when angry. Show a hair of empathy when I apologize. Also food for thought, try it some time you would be amazed at how it helps.
On the I need to stay and take of the kids while you are deployed than leave when you get back. That some how it is my responsibility to provide financially for you is amazingly naivete, delusional, or selfish. This ongoing belief that because you want a divorce, you are some how entitled to treat me as you please and that I am supposed to take it. It is just flabbergasting to the point of inanity.
Dont send this. I know your intent, but it's written from a place of weakness so it comes off ineffective.
You say "you dont get to treat me like trash." You say that you are "not a doormat". But she has. And you have been. For years. And youve done nothing about it. So why should it change now? What are you going to do differently? What are you doing to SHOW her that it's unacceptable to behave in that fashion?
Furthermore, putting blame on her or reminding her of "her part" isnt going to do you any favors either. What is your GOAL in sending such a letter?
Kaizen most of our fights lately haven't been about the divorce. They have been about how she is treating me. Aside from leaving her homeless I really don't have any idea on actions that convey the point.
She gets on her rants about how it is my fault. Anymore I just tell her your right and I understand why you would feel that. Then let it go. Not worth the hassle.
There is something severely wrong with me I am thinking. At some level I enjoy the challenge and the work. Changing me and my reactions has been quite fun to be honest. Maybe it is the mental exercise that I enjoy.
Spent the weekend with them out of a couple of state parks and an amusement park. It was an absolute blast. Planning a birthday party this weekend for my son.
So she was yelling at me last night, I ended up just laughing. See I write software for a living. Logic and abstract thought come very easy for me. Emotions not so much. Learning about those now and just doing stuff with my children and friends.
Any how so she said I never listen next statement was I draw her into conversations where she talks about herself and how she feels. For what ever reason I thought that was beyond funny.
My ADD is showing, no I don't take medication for it. Makes it hard to focus sometimes at least in calm situations. Chaotic highly fluid situations is a blessing.
I don't like how you have been treating me. Against common belief I am not a door mat. I don't do things because I am told too. We spend a lot of time talking about why you are unhappy. Which is okay I am more than happy to listen when you are being genuine, honest and open.
Thing is it feels like you expect me to accept one word vague answers. I am not a mind reader. I don't know how or what you are feeling unless you tell me. I do ask questions that you refuse to answer. That in asking questions I must be accusing you, calling you a liar or the answer isn't good enough. It is infuriating to ask a question in order to understand and suddenly be the bad guy.
Just because you are angry you don't get to tell me what trash I am or how it is my fault your life [censored]. Guess what you were there and had more than equal part in the decisions that got us here. Unless you are perfect and never say things you don't mean when angry. Show a hair of empathy when I apologize. Also food for thought, try it some time you would be amazed at how it helps.
On the I need to stay and take of the kids while you are deployed than leave when you get back. That some how it is my responsibility to provide financially for you is amazingly naivete, delusional, or selfish. This ongoing belief that because you want a divorce, you are some how entitled to treat me as you please and that I am supposed to take it. It is just flabbergasting to the point of inanity.
Sounds like a lot of anger in there. Let's step back for a second, is your goal to save your M? I'm assuming it is since you found your way here. Do you think the above gets you closer to your goal or farther away? Ask yourself that question about EVERYTHING you say or do. Are you familiar with Sandi's rules?
Those rules should guide EVERYTHING you do and say for the near future.
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She gets on her rants about how it is my fault. Anymore I just tell her your right and I understand why you would feel that. Then let it go. Not worth the hassle.
Don't tell her she's "right" because that just sounds like you're being sarcastic. Read up on validation. If she starts something like that then a good response would be "you sound angry, is that how you feel? What do you think is making you angry? I understand why you feel that way, is there anything I can do to help?" That sort of thing defuses the situation quickly and leaves her with the impression that you are actually listening to her.
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So she was yelling at me last night, I ended up just laughing.
Again, just listen and validate. If you laugh it will appear to her you are laughing at her which will just make her more angry. And again it'll just come off as sarcastic rather than validating.
