Fighting my way out of the dark Part 5

[doodler]

Interesting. I assume Cadet has a source for saying Robx didn't save his M. I haven't seen it though. TBH, it sounded like the dude no longer wanted her at the end.

Doodler, you said your XW was a carbon copy of mine. How did coming out of that R affected your view of the kind of woman you want next in your life?

Holding,

Yes, Cadet said that Robx didn't save his marriage.

I really haven't thought much about the kind of woman I'd want; I'm very busy right now and I'm happy being single for the time being. I know what I'd avoid, but other than what I'd consider to be "bad" traits, I don't have many specifics except for intelligence. Intelligence is important to me; I need to be with someone who can debate Sam Harris's seemingly misguided belief that free will is an illusion and who'd enjoy reading David Foster Wallace.

Hmmm...I just started my list of good traits. There you go.

[sandi2]

There was a board member who had posted a lot of information about emotional & mental abuse, does anyone remember who it was? My mind has drawn a blank.

Thanks for the link on Robx's thread. It's hard to tell if the guy ended up recon'ing his M or went through with the D. Do you know?

His MR had reconciled a good while before he left the board, as far as I knew. I did not know it was lost, till not so long ago when Cadet informed me......and, I don't know who wanted out of the M at the end, b\c he was gone from the board. I remember him making a huge turnover in himself when he said he decided he would not be bullied anymore. It didn't take long before his spoiled, manipulating WW started pursuing him, b\c he changed his entire approach. So, what happened at the end of their M, IDK. However, there are several people who currently post on the board whose marriages were not saved. Their advice should not be discredited on whether or not their M was save.

Back to the issue of your W screaming at you. I am reminded of something Michele said..... I may not be able to tell you what works but I can tell you what doesn't work. IMHO, if you wait till you start feeling emotional and then walk into the bedroom and lock the door....it will look weak to her. It appears to her as if you are running for cover from her.

The point (especially since she wants a reaction) is to remain very calm, show confidence and self control. Do nothing to fan the flames. IMO, it would actually be better to leave the house, rather than locking yourself in the bedroom. Maybe it would take some wind out of her. At least, maybe she would calm down and the kids wouldn't have to listen to her rage. Even if you have to get a hotel room for the night, it makes a statement that you don't have to hang around to tolerate that behavior. (And she doesn't need to know what you did when you were gone all night from home!)

Here's the thing. If she has always bullied\abused\manipulated you through bad behavior.....you may not be able to stop her that easily. Personally, I think men in this type of environment should stop trying to save their relationship with a bully. As with Robx, it frees him when he decides enough is enough.

Has she ever screamed and threw fits at the kids?

[Holding]

I really haven't thought much about the kind of woman I'd want; I'm very busy right now and I'm happy being single for the time being. I know what I'd avoid, but other than what I'd consider to be "bad" traits, I don't have many specifics except for intelligence. Intelligence is important to me; I need to be with someone who can debate Sam Harris's seemingly misguided belief that free will is an illusion and who'd enjoy reading David Foster Wallace.

Good start! I feel like my next R will be with someone TOTALLY different from STBXW.

However, there are several people who currently post on the board whose marriages were not saved. Their advice should not be discredited on whether or not their M was save.

Very true. It wasn't my point to discredit anyone. It's just nice to see a good success story now and then.

The point (especially since she wants a reaction) is to remain very calm, show confidence and self control. Do nothing to fan the flames. IMO, it would actually be better to leave the house, rather than locking yourself in the bedroom. Maybe it would take some wind out of her. At least, maybe she would calm down and the kids wouldn't have to listen to her rage. Even if you have to get a hotel room for the night, it makes a statement that you don't have to hang around to tolerate that behavior. (And she doesn't need to know what you did when you were gone all night from home!)

Yeah, I start out very calm, but remaining calm while the assault continues is the challenge. Getting a hotel every time this happens is not in the budget, but I can leave for a while and wait until later (midnight maybe) to come back. The funny thing is, I'd already left the house for a few hours earlier that same day to escape just this scenario. Maybe an overnight stay would send a different message though.

Here's the thing. If she has always bullied\abused\manipulated you through bad behavior.....you may not be able to stop her that easily. Personally, I think men in this type of environment should stop trying to save their relationship with a bully. As with Robx, it frees him when he decides enough is enough.

Yeah, I've accepted that this thing won't be saved. She's gone for good, and this isn't healthy. I need to make it through the D process with my self respect and strength. That's my goal at this point.

Has she ever screamed and threw fits at the kids?

Oh god yes. All the time. For years.

[sandi2]

Originally Posted By: sandi2
Has she ever screamed and threw fits at the kids?

Oh god yes. All the time. For years.

Ah.....so that says it is not just a problem between the two of you. If she uses the same bad behavior toward her children, then it is a problem in "her". Sounds as if it has been an unhealthy environment for a long time. Is she trying to get a reaction from them, too?

On second thought, you may have to take the boys with you when you leave the house.

Have you ever considered recording her whenever she goes into these rages? I mean, if there's a chance she could become physical with the kids.........or with you.......then you'd have something to show how she acts when she's angry, if needed.

[AnotherStander]

TBH, it sounded like the dude no longer wanted her at the end.

It happens. To this day I would personally love to have my old W back. But here's the thing- the person my XW is now and has been for the last 5 years is not the sweet, loving woman I was married to. I'm not saying she's mean or cold or anything, she's just a completely different person. I hardly know the "new" person and certainly don't want to be married to her. My old W died during that transition during and after BD. She's gone and (I believe) never coming back. My confusion after BD was in thinking she was still in there somewhere and if I just did or said the right things then she would come back out again.

I would also love to have my family life back again. But that too is gone for good. Two of my three kids are grown and moved out now, and the 3rd is a high schooler and has become quite independent. I'm no longer the "family man" I was for so long. I loved being a family man! But life rolls ever-onward and our roles and responsibilities change whether we like it or not.

This is the hard truth of DB'ing- most LBS's long for a W and M that is gone and will never return. The question is do you want a new R with that changed person? For many the answer is "no". But it takes months or even years to figure that out.

[Tread]

AnotherStander,

That is what I am learning coming up on year one of BD. I am definitely a family, which is why I feel even more alone at times. I canbdo without a bunch of people in my life, but my family is everything. Because I base all of my decisions in how it affects my family.

And like you I just know that my old W is in there somewhere just afraid to come on out. But I can't restart a MR with this new version of her. There is nothing abiut this person I would want for a girlfriend let alone a W. Which is why I am seriously just wanting to walk away. By the way whatever happened to your W?

[Holding]

Is she trying to get a reaction from them, too?

Yes, but it's usually to comply with her will:
- It's time to leave and the kids aren't ready? COMMENCE RAGE!
- She's planned this event for the kids and one of them doesn't want to go? COMMENCE RAGE!
- She's having a hard day and the kids are misbehaving: COMMENCE RAGE!

Granted, this doesn't happen every week, but probably once a month. I've always gotten it a lot more from her than they do.

She doesn't get physical with the kids. She did with me once, about 7 years ago. I should have been more proactive back then.

I think rage and physical violence are the R languages she learned as a child. One time after BD she told me she'd wished I'd hit her instead of becoming emotionally distant, because at least she knew how to hit back.

On second thought, you may have to take the boys with you when you leave the house.

Oh god, that would bring on WWIII from her if I did that. If it does get that bad, I'll do it though.

Have you ever considered recording her whenever she goes into these rages? I mean, if there's a chance she could become physical with the kids.........or with you.......then you'd have something to show how she acts when she's angry, if needed.

Yes! My VAR is on the way. I wish I'd recorded that time she was beating on the MBR door.

[Holding]

My old W died during that transition during and after BD. She's gone and (I believe) never coming back.

Somewhere, maybe on these boards, I heard someone say that their XW killed their W. That's something I keep thinking about. It makes this easier for me, for some reason.

I'm no longer the "family man" I was for so long. I loved being a family man!

This will be a hard transition for me as well. My STBXW has killed the family. I guess I'll be able to forgive her for that at some point, I just don't see it now.

And like you I just know that my old W is in there somewhere just afraid to come on out. But I can't restart a MR with this new version of her. There is nothing abiut this person I would want for a girlfriend let alone a W. Which is why I am seriously just wanting to walk away.

Tread, I think AS's point was that the old W wasn't really in there any more. She'll probably never come out even if she is. Walking away is a personal decision that each of us may eventually struggle with. I'm not telling you to walk away, but after fighting for our M so long, we might reach that decision.

[Btrow]

Yes! My VAR is on the way. I wish I'd recorded that time she was beating on the MBR door.

How about a recording app for your phone while waiting for the VAR? Just in case..

[Holding]

How about a recording app for your phone while waiting for the VAR? Just in case..

I've got that too. I just need to remember to use it in the heat of the moment. The challenge is to activate it without being seen. She's already questioned me before about if I was recording her (when I wasn't). Makes me wonder if she's been recording me. I assume that she is.

Just a general update on my sitch: Last night the handoff for Halloween was complicated. It was raining and STBXW's plans with her family were delayed. I was flexible and pushed back my pickup time by an hour and a half to give them time once the rain stopped. By the time I wanted to pick up S10 from her, they were out in the neighborhood and she had conveniently left her phone at SIL's house "to charge". Fortunately SIL had her own phone on her, so I was able to coordinate with her. S14 decided to stay with them and not come with me and S10. But S10 and I had a good time back in our neighborhood, though it was late. I hope the rest of my life won't be like this, with antagonistic handoffs

Afterwards, STBXW came back to the house with S14 and MIL. (STBXW's knee surgery is today, so MIL is staying here to help her with recovery.) When MIL walked in, I could feel the tension - she did not hug or kiss me hello like she's always done. I still smiled and said hello. (Sandi, I'm trying to be the Fonz.)

Last night I overheard them talking and it sounded like MIL is supporting STBXW in not paying the late fees on the bills. I told her I'm still not paying half of them. It will cost me about $75, and I realize it isn't that much to keep the peace, but I'd feel like such a pushover for allowing it. So I guess this is a bluff I'm just gonna have to call. Gonna be a rough month. Still, I'll continue to pay my bills as I'm supposed to. For the bills that have my name on them, I might make a supplemental payment to get to the full amount, and then I'll just add half that into the imaginary column of money she owes me in the D settlement.

This morning I told MIL good morning, though it felt awkward. STBXW was in a rotten mood toward me. Getting the kids ready for school in the morning seems to be a competition between us now. I'll admit, it's nice in a way to see her caring for them (something she's never really done), but it feels like a slap in the face that she's doing it now, after SO MANY YEARS of not doing it (role reversal, anyone?).

I told her good luck on her operation when I left the house. She dryly said thanks.