How a treehouse can cost you your marriage

[MoveFrwd]

I have no idea how you guys are getting the "originally posted by: quote boxes" so please excuse my elementary way of doing it...

You hit the quote button below a post and then it pulls you to a new window with everything quoted. Basically everything you want in quotes type

but with a '=' instead of a ':'. Then at the end of the quote type [?quote] but with a '/' instead of a '?'.

[quote=Clyde] with all do respect, my short comings and the roll the friends played in it are 2 different factors, you can't tell me you do not see how the friends played a significant roll in this.

Maybe they did. But theres nothing to be done about her friends right now. We cant help you to change who your W is friends with or what they are telling her. So I suppose it's relevant, but only insofar as W is going to put herself into an echo chamber - anyone that disagrees with her current worldview is going to get cut out.

So yes I am human and have short comings, no addictions, no abuse, my actions regarding how to provide were always with the family's best interest at heart.

Im not arguing with you. What I am telling you is that your idea of what was the best interest may not be correct. Or your W may not think or thought it was correct. My recommendation is for you to zoom your view out. Or as MWD says, start over with a beginner's mind. Thats what Im saying when I tell you that there are ALWAYS options.

All that said I still understand the only thing I can control are my actions.
This is what is important and what Im struggling with.

What are you doing differently now? What would be different about a future R between you and W?

[quote=Clyde]Mind you she dropped out of MC when she got caught in several lies. Why did she feel it necessary to lie? One of the lies she got caught in was about stealing money, I found out she was doing so by reading about it on her phone it in a text from her friend who was encouraging it, (again, the damn friends meddling in our M). I continued to go to MC for an additional 4 months after she stopped going, I still meet with our pastor weekly to get advice on life, the M, and to nurture my growth as a person... I did not take her list as an assignment I could blow through and move on with life.

I know. Ive read your posts and I understand that shes dishonest and sneaky. That doesnt change your outlook any. All you wrote was that you worked on the list she gave you. Im asking what you are doing now including that list and other things to improve yourself and morph into Clyde2.0.

I could of handled all of or altercations over the past 2 years better, some of the arguments I engaged in were pointless and some of my reactions to things that were said or done did not help our relationship, rather hurt it.

So what are you doing differently now? How are you expressing that in your life?

As far as the work load, I never surrendered my self to that scenario, I am constantly trying to improve the sitch... be it by investing in new machinery, implementing new methods and so forth. We live on the outskirts of San Diego, the cost of living is ridiculous here, no car payments, no extravagant living. The biggest step toward improving this scenario was the wife going to school which we never got to see the benefits of in the R, (her going to school was something we both made happen, I ran the house 2-3 days a week for close to 2 years, while still being the sole provider along with expenses that came with the schooling.)

I get it, my ex was in some form of schooling almost our entire R, and was just poised to get a fulltime job at BD. So I certainly understand the economic frustration of being the only one providing money for the household.

But again, it comes back to the same question - What would be different if you R'd?



Here's the thing. I know you arent a bad guy.
I understand you did your best. I can see you saying that you have faults and want to address them. Im also willing to concede that Im not right about all of the opinions I have.

What I keep coming back to; however, is your words deflect all of the blame from yourself. Onto W, onto W's friends, onto the circumstances of your R. Whatever. I dont really say anywhere where you have looked in the mirror and determined what you did wrong and what you will do better.

THE BREAKDOWN OF THE MARRIAGE IS NOT YOUR FAULT COMPLETELY. But, regardless of who she is friends or family with, SOME of the blame is yours.

Your W is not going to come back to the same relationship. And SHE isnt going to be the one to change first.

[MoveFrwd]

Wow....apparently using a : instead of a = is allowed in the quote box.

Sorry for the problems in quoting in a post teaching you how to quote!!

[joejoe1]

Clyde,

Hmmmm....

I'm in the Army. So I hope what I type don't sound too harsh.

You are on your own journey now. Your marriage at this point is done.

There is no magic advice here for you to tell your wife. She is done with the marriage. She is not coming back to the old marriage or the old you.

What you are doing now is going down your own path and leaving a road open for your wife. You want her to see the new you. And make it where leaving the new you will make her feel like a fool.

No one here is going to place blame on your wife(do she share blame, of course). Will blaming help you in uour journey, NO.

If you want to save your marriage It's all on you. I know it [censored], 25 said it's going to take a Hurclean effort. But guess what we get to be Hurcleaus, who would of thought. But seriously, this is all on you. You wont get no help from your W. That's why all the focus is put on you in this forum.

[Clyde]

[quote=Kaizen]Maybe they did. But theres nothing to be done about her friends right now. We cant help you to change who your W is friends with or what they are telling her. So I suppose it's relevant, but only insofar as W is going to put herself into an echo chamber - anyone that disagrees with her current worldview is going to get cut out.[qoute]

I hear you, and to be honest I have already come to the conclusion that dwelling on the part they played only frustrates me...gets me thinking about retaliating by blowing the lid on their A's which would only be a stupid move on my part as the W would be even more pissed @ me, and I realize that if these woman were single it would only make it to were they would be able to hang out even more. I am also confident that its just a matter of time before their actions come back to bite them as it is already for the "sister", her and her new H are already on the rocks 2 weeks into their M, he is already sleeping in the camper!

[Clyde]

What I keep coming back to; however, is your words deflect all of the blame from yourself. Onto W, onto W's friends, onto the circumstances of your R. Whatever. I dont really say anywhere where you have looked in the mirror and determined what you did wrong and what you will do better.

If I could go back in time I would of read the books I've read over the past 6 months right when we started to get serious in our R, (kinda like when they go over the emergency exits and oxygen mask before a plane takes off so that you are prepared in case of a disaster), the knowledge and techniques I've learned about in these books and this forum surely would have made a difference if implemented earlier. That being said, I can and have started to implement them at this point. For example:

These days I always try to think what might be the end result before saying/doing something, especially before contesting or giving my opinion on anything. I'm trying to avoid un-necesarry conflict/arguments, thinking about what I do or say before hand has saved me quite a few. At this point in the sitch the only thing I have a say in is our kids, and we have butted heads on a few things regarding the kids.

I am doing a good job at validating, I thought I did a good job at this in the past but now realize validating is about listening and acknowledging, not giving my take.

In the past when we had big arguments where we could not reach an agreement I would go days giving her the silent treatment, I will not to that any more, I waisted precious time together and still did not resolve the issue. A few weeks ago we had an argument, a few hours later I called her and said, "look, I don't like how that went I am sure you didn't either, anyhow I've been thinking about what you were saying and I can see you point of view..." I swear I could hear her Jaw drop over the phone, within a minute you would of never thought we were arguing a few hours earlier.

[joejoe1]

Clyde,

Great job. Keep up the great work.

Don't forget you will make mistakes. Learn from it and keep moving forward.

[MoveFrwd]

Maybe they did. But theres nothing to be done about her friends right now. We cant help you to change who your W is friends with or what they are telling her. So I suppose it's relevant, but only insofar as W is going to put herself into an echo chamber - anyone that disagrees with her current worldview is going to get cut out.

I hear you, and to be honest I have already come to the conclusion that dwelling on the part they played only frustrates me...gets me thinking about retaliating by blowing the lid on their A's which would only be a stupid move on my part as the W would be even more pissed @ me, and I realize that if these woman were single it would only make it to were they would be able to hang out even more. I am also confident that its just a matter of time before their actions come back to bite them as it is already for the "sister", her and her new H are already on the rocks 2 weeks into their M, he is already sleeping in the camper! it isnt really any of my business or concern.

Fixed it for you!

Again - what are your goals? If your goal is to reconcile with your W, then I dont think exploding her friends' marriages is a good way to go about it.

[MoveFrwd]

I am doing a good job at validating, I thought I did a good job at this in the past but now realize validating is about listening and acknowledging, not giving my take.

Great insight and a valuable lesson!

[Clyde]

Emotions are all over the place the last few days, its been tough.

I slipped and pursued, we were talking the other day and she mentioned her grandma and aunt, I asked her what do they know about our sitch... did they get the bogus TRO version of events, and if so is that playing a roll in her effort to R, if the TRO version is what they think is the truth, surely they would encourage you not to go back. (I know how stupid this was of me to bring up... not only was I pursuing, but I was being confrontational). She instantly shut it down saying she "is not going there right now", I said no problem.

I referred back to our last convo in which she said that she knows that I always loved her and still do, she never didn't feel my love, and that she never felt like a piece of meat in the bedroom, she felt like it was love, not just sex when we were intimate. All this is opposite of what she was saying the past few months and what I felt were significant reasons for wanting to leave, so I asked her what bought this change of heart/opinion and does't this change the dynamic? She again shut the convo down. I asked her if our convos were helping at all and she said "I guess"
(Now again, I know broke DBing protocol pursuing/seeking reassurances).

The "I guess" reply really made me feel good, I know it is not affirmative, but is a far cry from her saying that our convos didn't help or felt like harassment. So the "I guess" coupled with the fact that she is actually letting the convos happen and she is engaging in them makes it hard to stop. I also fear her pride is too to big to allow her to start the convos... My IC (formally our MC) said her pride might prohibit this also, however he also thinks detachment is crucial at this point.

Something else occurred to me as I over analyzed the "I guess" response... do I trust she is telling the truth, if we do R at what point can I fully trust her word? Now as I write this post and again analyzing it, I know at the moment I should believe nothing she says, but man was it refreshing to hear.

Detaching is really, really, messing with my emotions lately, I am far from coming to terms with it as I self analyze the sincerity of my efforts in detaching, this post is getting long so I'll go into that in the next post.

[Clyde]

So detaching has not worked good for me, I'll go a couple hours - maybe a day thinking I'm ready to detach, but then I go the opposite, thinking about my love for her. I really started to pound in my head the other day that detaching is the best chance our R has at this point. I'm also starting to think about the dynamic that would play out if she came back tomorrow, would I be on eggshells while she did as she pleased, quite possibly unless she is questioning that I will stick around.

I find myself debating if not pursuing might be enough detachment to trigger the W to work on the M.

In detaching, I battle with giving up my unconditional love for her which has not wavered to this point, I've seen it mentioned that you can detach in a loving way but I don't quite get that one yet.

When we were still living together and I was trying to fix the R all the time, on two or three occasions I told her fine, she can have it her way we are done, when I did this she was always willing to talk about the R the next day.

She's been working doubles all week so we have not had too much interaction, she stopped by last night after work to drop some stuff off for my D, it was late -10:30, she brought in her dinner and ate it at the table, I sat with her but we did not talk to much, I felt sorry for her, it [censored] to eat alone, thats the only reason I can think why did she not eat at her own place... its only 10 minutes away. When she left I wanted to say text me when you get home safe, it was so hard not to.

So while I battle the notion of detaching, I can say I am more dead set than ever to not pursue.