IMHO, you are having a problem balancing. Your advice to other newcomers sound very tough and ridged. In some cases, too much, b\c it sounds as if it's coming from your own anger. True, you have every right to be angry about your WW's infidelity.....but be careful what you do with that anger.
Your mind is occupied by negative thoughts people may have about you (laughing behind your back, etc). You feel torn by how to interact with your WW, b\c of how she may interrupt it. And, I think all of this together is causing your timing to be off in the things you decide to do.
For instance, you weren't sure about S13 birthday celebration. That's understandable, and probably, we all have our own personal viewpoints about it. But here's my point about bad timing, and if I'm wrong about this particular example, you can correct me. Did she not receive the email with the D information just a few days before S13's birthday? To me, I would not have done that if I was going to turn around and suggest you celebrate your son's birthday together. Even if you didn't celebrate together, it just looks as if you I tended to hurt her right about the time for his birthday. See what I mean? Bad timing.
As for asking her why no response, I suggest you not say anything yet. There could be several reasons she hasn't responded. Whatever that reason is, if you ask her......you will probably get a lot more than you wanted.....and it won't be good. Sorry if I find it hard to believe you aren't looking for some desired response from her. It's natural, but you need to really stop doing things to get a response.
The best thing you can do is exactly what we've told you from day one. Stop focusing on her (what she's thinking about you, her motive behind her actions, etc). I noticed on your list of goals you did not have anything about your M, so does that mean you are finished with her? If so, then stop letting negative thoughts occupy your mind, and live your life by what you believe is true and the right thing to do every day. If you will live by this code, I believe it will help you in overcoming the mental agony of what others may think of you. Most of all, I think it may assist you in having better balance in your decisions, interactions, mental attitude, etc. Hopefully, it will help you move forward and find a way to deal with the anger.
I don't say any of this with a judgemental heart, Tread, I hope you believe that. I don't suppose anyone here is as hard on wayward wives as I am, and it is painful to see you going through this mess. Your have a full life ahead of you, and there are still some good people in the world. Don't allow this experience to leave you bitter at the world, b\c it is not worth what you will miss. ((Hugs))
BTW, don't react from my post by canceling the paperwork, or anything like it. I want you to stop reacting...period. Find peace in your life, and stop looking for reactions from your W. Do you see what I mean, or have I confused you?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
The reason why my advice is so tough and ridged with the newcomers is because I want them to avoid my mistakes. I initially tried to nice my way back into her heart. As a result, she took full advantage and her behavior got worse. You were right that as long as the WW doesn't respect you, then you won't get anywhere with them.
Now your 100 percent correct about me being torn in regards on how to react with my W. Even though I was pissed at her last month, I decided to calm down once her behavior got better. So everything is at least on a cordial level. But I am a bot concerned about how she will interpret things. S13 birthday is tomorrow, I emailed the D information on Monday. When I sent it to her, I never even considered S13 birthday. Our wedding Anniversary is actually on the 18th now that I think about it. Guess the timing did suck, but I have so much on plate and decisions to make that W feelings didn't seem that important. I just know that lawyer needed me to get that signed off on.
I'm not expecting a desired response from W. But when I received the paperwork from my lawyer, it made me sad seeing myself as the Plantiff and W as the Defendant. Like things had really come to this. I would hope that my W would experience some sadness at the possibility of the MR coming to an end. AS far as my goals, they are solely about me and not involving my W. If things change in our sitch, then I will adjust the goals accordingly. But right now, life is going to be about me and S13.
Seriously had trust issues prior to all of this. And right now it seems as if I will never completely trust anyone again. I now this may sound cliche, but my W was never one who I thought would do this. She turned in friends of ours who were having A. Didn't entertain people who were doing this stuff. And talked about her own mother and family members were out sleeping around with other people's H's. So if she can do this of all people, then I am not sure if there is woman trustworthy out there other than my mother of course.
As for the paperwork, I suppose I will just sit back and say nothing about it. W knows where I stand at the moment. If she wants to talk, then she knows I'm open to talk. I was just wondering what she could be thinking based on trying to figure out what to do. Do I just sit back and say nothing for days, week or months if she says nothing about it? And is this her way of testing me by just ignoring the paperwork all together? I ask this, because I wonder if this is about respect.
By the way, W just called asking about what plans I have for S13 tomorrow. He is with me for the next week, so she mentioned something about a Fall event at the market he likes to attend every year. W asked me if I wanted to go with them in the morning. Never bothered to ask if it was alright to get him during my week. But I didn't say anything, its his birthday, so I have no issue with her getting him for a couple of hours. Told her will figure out the plans for the whole day in the morning. So it appears that the three of us might be spending the day together after all.
So I have a confession. Read the first chapter of No More Mr. Nice Guy. And that chapter alone hit me like a ton of bricks. Discovered I had issues that I didn't even really have a clue about. But the way I have felt throughout this MR finally makes sense. Sat in the aisle of Walmart listening to the book on audio and suddenly had the urge to call W and apologize for the flaws and issues that I wasn't really aware of.
My W issues involving her childhood into adulthood are obvious. But clearly my own issues are a lot more hidden. Which has a lot to do with trying to be that nice guy who is responsible for keeping everything together. This was beaten into my own head as the eldest child by own parents. Especially my father. And I am sure my fix it attitude didn't help my MR out at all. But to be honest, I have never looked at my W as a project to fix. Though I agree with the book that I always thought my W had so much potential. But was just brought up in a bad sitch. I wanted to take her from all of that and show her much better. When I bought this house, it wasn't for me. But it was for her and S13. I wanted W to see that she actually deserved to have all of this.
Now she doesn't even want it. And is willing to throw it all away for a guy who wants to give her nothing. Guess this is also why I am so upset with W. I have flaws, but I believed that I did everything right without expecting anything but loyalty. For her to leave this MR for someone better would be understandable. But for someone who never even bought her a drink? The first chapter alone has opened up my eyes and I can only imagine what I will discover by the end of this book.
I made so many sacrifices for my W that I will never be able to take back. All in the name of being a nice guy. Sacrificed a military career, children and entertained/helped her family out on many occasions. I did it with no expectation, because we were family. And now she wants to break up the family for this turd. So at the moment, I am pissed off at W. But I am also extremely sorry for W must have endured in our MR. Even though she opted to keep a lot of things to herself. At first, I got a lawyer, because I wanted this nonsense to come to an end and I deserve better. Now I am seriously wondering if we should go our separate ways because this might not be salvageable? Well that's my rant.
As for the paperwork, I suppose I will just sit back and say nothing about it. W knows where I stand at the moment. If she wants to talk, then she knows I'm open to talk. I was just wondering what she could be thinking based on trying to figure out what to do. Do I just sit back and say nothing for days, week or months if she says nothing about it? And is this her way of testing me by just ignoring the paperwork all together? I ask this, because I wonder if this is about respect.
Is she suppose to sign the agreement for the child care schedule or anything else to return to the lawyer within a certain window of time? You may need to check with his office. If your W doesn't mention the email in a reasonable time frame, then explain there is deadline.
I hope you and your W can be civil while celebrating S13's BD.
It makes it rather difficult with the son's BD and the anniversary, also. Just try to get through the next few weeks behaving as a man of honor. I hope your W will not decide to discuss it in front of son.
Good luck. I hope you have an enjoyable time.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
As for the paperwork, I suppose I will just sit back and say nothing about it.
I was actually wondering the same thing as Sandi- is there a response date in the paperwork? If so then I wouldn't worry about it until that date. She may have just set it aside to deal with later.
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W knows where I stand at the moment. If she wants to talk, then she knows I'm open to talk. I was just wondering what she could be thinking based on trying to figure out what to do.
Did you file for D because you were well and truly done and want to be D'd, or because you hoped to get some kind of response out of her? Because it sounds like the latter.
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Do I just sit back and say nothing for days, week or months if she says nothing about it?
Is there not a response date in the paperwork? Maybe I'm misunderstanding, did you actually file for D or did you just draw up papers and send them to her for review? If you filed for D, then there should be a date in there by which she needs to respond in writing to the court.
I has the papers drawn up and sent to W for review. So I doubt there was a date. Just wanted to get her to agree on things prior to paying to file and find out she wants to fight it, which would cost me more money. I had the papers drawn up, because I had finally had enough of her nonsense. And if I was going to get through these financial issues, then I would have to get rid of her as a W. Now I admit that there is a small part of me that would be happy if the papers caused her to snap out of this fog.
By the way things went well yesterday with us meeting up for S14 birthday. Thought it would be weird for us being around each other for a long period of time. Last 2 months are time together has been no longer than 5-10 minutes discussing S14. W seemed eager to tell me about a friends wedding she attended the say before. I was cordial and validated the issues she brought up in regards to how she was feeling about other things in her life. You would have thought things were normal just by watching us. She even mentioned just how good I was looking lately with the weight loss. And even mentiones that my beardbhad kess gray.
For some reason, I thought it would be weird. And old feelings would get involved. But I really didn't feel too much for W at all. It was if I was talking to an old neighbor who I was catching up with. Pretty certain she texted OM at some point during brunch. Whenever W is trying to think of something sexy and cute to text in response, she tends to rub her lips as she concentrates.
W always thought that I was going through her found, but I simply just happen to be aware of her body language in that regard. I just ignored her trifiling behavior and just continues talking with S14. She can't even stop dealing with this guy for 3 hours to celebrate her own son. This is the behavior of damn near all the women in her family. That she has complained abiut for years. Which is a huge reason why I had the paperwork drawn up. I can't and refuse to live in that type of dysfunction.
And I am sure my fix it attitude didn't help my MR out at all. But to be honest, I have never looked at my W as a project to fix. Though I agree with the book that I always thought my W had so much potential. But was just brought up in a bad sitch. I wanted to take her from all of that and show her much better. When I bought this house, it wasn't for me. But it was for her and S13. I wanted W to see that she actually deserved to have all of this.
Tread... everyone is different, but as you know I also have a WW, and my own experiences in this have been somewhat eye-opening. I, too, had much the same mindset with my wife when we got married... wanted to "fix" her brokenness, take away her hurt, "protect her and give her everything", "Save" her, even. Turns out, however, that, at least for a good number of women, these things are not "turn ons." And, when your W becomes a WW, they are DEFINITELY not attractive because the WW does not WANT to be fixed/saved/corrected/changed in any way. I can't remember the exact context, but a few months back with my own W I did something (think maybe I showed up to pick her up when she had been drinking) and she told me, somewhat angrily and scornfully "I don't need to be rescued." No thanks, nothing, just "I don't need to be rescued."
Also, want to reiterate what Sandi2 said above about timing... and this goes for all walks of life not just with your W. I, too, have a very strong "fix it" mentality, and also a quick mind that hates to see things messed up and that wants to move QUICKLY to remedy things or address things I see as "issues." Quite frequently this has led to me doing or saying things prematurely or otherwise at less than optimal moments... in all walks of life I have come to see but, most pertinently, WRT my W and our current sitch. Both the DB coach and my IC have been a big help with this. Sometimes, it is best to wait and pick your spots, particularly if you are going to be broaching or discussing something delicate. Can't remember the exact phrasing but my coach has told me a couple of times to think of this rhyme, which can be useful in other contexts as well: "Is what I am about to do or say, going to draw her/him closer or push her/him away?"
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
So due to mother insistence I looked at the phone records for the month. Mom basically said I was soft for giving W a ride last week. And what I found is that my W spends her entire day most texting with several men and calling a couple. Not really sure if she has time to visit with them. But clearly she is relishing in the attention. Clearly these guys are for fun, but are unwilling to assist with a flat tire.
OM was nowhere to be found on there. Noticed awhile back that he wasn't responding to text, so he may have finally kicked her to the curb or using secret messenger. No concern of mine at this point, but just an observation. And apparently potential OM has moves up to the top of the list for text and calls. Nice to know that he stepped up his scavenger behavior when W moved out.
The thing that actually bothered me was the fact that there were times when W had excuses not to pick up S14, drop anything off for him or I had to change my plans for her. W used excuses for being too tired, but from what I can tell she was busy texting or talking on the phone when she was supposed to be sleeping. Basically putting our son aside just for attention from strangers.
So this did prove my mother's point to let her go to these men for assistance on anything that doesn't involve S14. And apparently even in matters involving our child she can't be trusted. Have no intentions on calling her out. But I am real tempted to to send a text next time she wants something. And it will go like this:
If you need anything in regards to S14 or business, then I will not hesitate to assist you. But for anything else please refer the other men you contact on a regular basis. If these men are incapable of being more for you than the purpose for "fun and a good time", then you may want to reevaluate the type of people in your life. My time is valuable and will not be used for someone trying to take advantage.
