WAWWAW? Woul? Would Love Opinions. Thanks! Part 7

[TBSakaJ9]

Thanks sandy the good news is that she ended up paying for half of what we were discussing with the kids.

We do not have a separation agreement and just arranged our financial piece between the both of us when she moved out. If/when this goes to D will what I am paying now have any impact on a D settlement? Will a judge look at our current arrangement and say since you are already paying it it should continue.

[sandi2]

Well, I don't know what a judge might say, I'd just encourage you to protect yourself. I think some guys pay more during the separation b/c they want to show their W they love them and are willing to take the bunt of expenses. However, it often turns on the H........and like you said, he has to continue taking it.

[TBSakaJ9]

Thanks S...I don't think we are too far off financially, maybe $100 here or there. I think it is the male instinct to want to take care of his family and it is a hard thing to shift your thinking even in these situations.

I don't think I have been too overly nice to her through this process and I always think about being a NG when I approach these situations. When she moved out I did ask her to give me the checkbook to our joint account, I did have her name removed from it as well since I am the primary and I also asked her to give me our joint family credit card. My name is on it not hers. I didn't do this until she got her checks re-directed to be auto-deposited into her own checking account. I don't think those actions are not NG worthy .

Since then though she come to me a couple of times wanting money to help her with groceries because she went over budget. In one instance she did ask me for the credit card and I told her "no". I did go out and get her some stuff primarily because she had the kids for the week but that was it. She also offered to pay me back.

Maybe she is Wayward with a conscience? When she came to me for money she broke down, started crying and told me it was hard for her to ask. I assumed it was due to her pride.

Anyway....I am still not pursuing and I never ask her any questions about herself. How she is doing? Where has she been? What is going on? How do you feel? Everything is high level talk about some random BS, the kids or money. I won't break ranks but am getting kind of tired of it.

It feels like we are D'd without the paperwork.

[25yearsmlc]

LOL...that is awesome! I thought I did a good job validating myself!

My W just came back and said she could pay for a portion of what we were talking about. Since our finances are separated I have no idea how much money she has or doesn't have. So if we split things 50/50 and she says she can't pay for something. I guess at that point it is my decision if I want to pay for it 100% depending on how bad I want my D's to go or have it or participate in it?

You did validate well. But you earn a lot more, so I'm not sure anything will be paid for in a 50/50 way.

That depends on what a court orders in a divorce filing.

Joseph, I can sense the pain you are in and the desire to the "right thing". I really admire it.

Everyone has some pride and it's taken a big blow to be here, for sure. Believe me, I get it.

But when you start measuring the money, and you make more and you are not yet divorced, be careful what you push her towards.

(And to be honest, I sense a bit of the petty - but understandable part of you - that might enjoy her discomfort. Try not to spend time in that place, okay?).

If it gets financially more advantageous for her to file for divorce, is that what you want?

What does your lawyer say?

I do know a couple that reconciled after 15 months apart.

Her h was paying "enough" for her to get by, to pay the mortgage and she worked too.

But it began to dawn on her h that his HAPPY FREEDOM was going to cost him more in a divorce.

(of course it'd Cost both of them more than being an intact couple, but you get the point).

So he backed off pushing for it and he seemed to get sort of "got all comfy" in his paying less than he would owe, position.

Then his wife wanted things to move one way or the other. There were OTHER factors to be sure, (including her getting noticed by OMs in general, no one specific)

and she got back in shape, tuned up, she did a lot of great DBing,

and I believe in my heart she began to just let go of him and GAL. It showed.

Whatever it was in the end, he is making real effort at piecing since their recon a year ago. It's not easy but as she puts it, "beats the alternative, SO FAR..."


So Figure out your real goal, and if momentary delight in her problems is helping or hurting.
Food for thought.

[25yearsmlc]

Thanks sandy the good news is that she ended up paying for half of what we were discussing with the kids.

We do not have a separation agreement and just arranged our financial piece between the both of us when she moved out. If/when this goes to D will what I am paying now have any impact on a D settlement? Will a judge look at our current arrangement and say since you are already paying it it should continue.

Not sure what state you live in, or how much more you make than she does.

In general, a court does not like seeing one party have a substantial downturn in their lifestyle while the other does not.

in my case, and what my L will argue

is that my h is an MD with a pristine resume, whereas I've got an 18 year gap in my resume, while I raised our kids and moved 9 times for h's career.

And I'm not licensed in this state, so I'd have to move to a place we lived 18 years ago, to use my professional degree and find work.

Where I filed, The court thinks after a long m this^^^ should not mean I live in a crappy place while my h lives in almost the same lifestyle we had while married.

Other states look for "Equitable divisions" and all states want the kids to be safe and to minimize the changes in their lives/life styles.

The courts usually don't want to see a big disparity in lifestyles for some time.

Ultimately, yes the higher earner will have more, b/c they earn more. But That's later.
And assumes the lower earning spouse does not remarry.

See a lawyer to discuss possible financial implications and no matter how much you like the first L, (if you do), please interview another one.

Make sense?

[TBSakaJ9]

But when you start measuring the money, and you make more and you are not yet divorced, be careful what you push her towards.

(And to be honest, I sense a bit of the petty - but understandable part of you - that might enjoy her discomfort. Try not to spend time in that place, okay?).

Hi 25.....I am really trying hard not to get petty, you are right it is hard. I guess I struggle at times with the balance of not supporting her financially vs not being a push over, NG etc.

Under our current arrangement I am paying the car payment and car insurance for the car she drives. I am paying all the family medical bills, the previous family debt we had and 90% of our children's after school care. We did sit down together before she moved out and put together budgets for ourselves, listed everything out and this is what we agreed upon. She also opened up her own credit card that had a $2k limit on it and she has maxed that out. I did offer to sit down with her and go over the finances again which she declined.

When she runs over budget though you know who she comes to? I guess that is what I struggle with the most. Not wanting to be the nice guy and bail her out but also not wanting it to come across as vindictive and punitive. For the record when she did need money I gave it to her or supported her and when she offered to pay it back I have declined.

Your thoughts????

What does your lawyer say?

I have not spoke to a lawyer yet but I do have a good friend who is a judge and I have sought his council. He just said keep good records of what money you give her and your expenses. At the end of the day more of the law will be applied vs current state sort of speak.

She has not brought up D since the middle of July so I am not sure what's going on in her head.

Not sure what state you live in, or how much more you make than she does.

We live in Texas which is a community property state.

In general, a court does not like seeing one party have a substantial downturn in their lifestyle while the other does not.

in my case, and what my L will argue

is that my h is an MD with a pristine resume, whereas I've got an 18 year gap in my resume, while I raised our kids and moved 9 times for h's career.

I agree and IMO I think our lifestyle are similar. I think my W has problems budgeting her money because I handled all the finances for the 16 years we have been together. She is a teacher with a Bachelor's Degree so other than income disparity there are no gaps in her employment nor any concerns about her finding a job.

Where I filed, The court thinks after a long m this^^^ should not mean I live in a crappy place while my h lives in almost the same lifestyle we had while married.

I agree totally......the apartment she found costs more than our mortgage and is brand new.

Ultimately, yes the higher earner will have more, b/c they earn more. But That's later.
And assumes the lower earning spouse does not remarry.

I fully accept and understand that if we go to D I will be paying her some monthly support and prob alimony even with having 50/50 custody. The only thing I have asked her to pay for is her cell phone bill $120/mth and $70/mth towards our children's after school care. I am paying for every other expense she left behind when she moved out. Car notes, car insurance, former family debt, etc.

I just don't know how to handle when she goes over the budget we put together for her. I don't want to seem vindictive/punitive or come across as a push over, wimpy, NG. I never reach out to her and ask her if she needs money I am just responding to when she reaches out.

[25yearsmlc]

well

Joseph I don't have specific advice for you on finances but a planner or lawyer might.

Yes Texas is community property but child support isn't community property based, as you know.

Um, as for the "NG - Nice Guy" concern, have you read that book? (The title is misleading & the term "nice guy" can be a misnomer). I'm confused by your use of it when it comes to the finances and wanting to rescue her.

That's ^^sort of not it.


So, of the things your w felt were missing in the m and with which you agree - how's that going?

And are you GAL? The more you do that, and the less you obsess about her, the more detached and less likely to engage in the whole "teach her a lesson" deal.

Something my DB coach said long ago that resonated to me,

was that "it's not the spouse's job to teach their h/w lessons, or to 'show them consequences of their choices. Life does that."


One of the reasons this^^ helped me, was for me to let go of what I "should" be doing.

A lot of that "Should be doing SOMETHING" in me was me trying to control the outcome

and just not do my best, then letting go of the results.

If you truly do become the best version of yourself, the best Joseph9 you can become

then you can turn the marriage over to God & hold your head high.

[TBSakaJ9]

Um, as for the "NG - Nice Guy" concern, have you read that book? (The title is misleading & the term "nice guy" can be a misnomer). I'm confused by your use of it when it comes to the finances and wanting to rescue her.

Yes, I have read the book. Thanks for the clarity, we get a lot thrown at us and I guess at the end of the day I don't want her to think of me as being weak because when she comes to me with a need (financially) I have supported her during this separation. How does this help her feel that she is loosing me when I support her? Does that make sense????

Then I think about this part of detaching:

* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to not bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.

So, of the things your w felt were missing in the m and with which you agree - how's that going?

The first time she told me she wanted a D she told me I needed to be more of a leader. She never did elaborate. Then she told me I didn't challenge her to be a better person, that I needed to lose weight, I needed to get off my computer, I needed to change my socks. She told me she knows that I would love her for the rest of my life and there are 95 reasons why she should be with me but something was missing and she couldn't put it into words. She told me I was a great provided, father and is the best sex she has ever had Every time I pressed her on it she couldn't put it into words what was exactly missing she just said I know in my bones it is not going to work. Gave me the I am not attracted to you any more, bored, ILYBNILWY speech and every time I pressed her for examples she got mad. I did snoop for OM but never did find anything.

So since all of this has transpired I have taken care of myself physically by going to the gym, I have lost weight, got new clothes, new haircut etc. I have been taking my kids to church every Sunday and have them enrolled in choir. I have been reading self-help books on relationships as well and personal development. Most of my focus has been on my physical appearance and I know probably my biggest opportunity is to be more engaged and always present myself in an attractive manner. I got lazy.

And are you GAL? The more you do that, and the less you obsess about her, the more detached and less likely to engage in the whole "teach her a lesson" deal.

GAL has been working out, going out with friends here and there, I took a trip last month out of town. I also signed my D's and I up for some cooking classes. I really enjoy working out and being physically engaged so that has been my primary source of GAL. Anything active I really enjoy.

Something my DB coach said long ago that resonated to me,

was that "it's not the spouse's job to teach their h/w lessons, or to 'show them consequences of their choices. Life does that."

I like that and agree I have really tried hard to not make this punitive for my W. I just think about it in context with making her feel like she is loosing me and should that tie to finances and not rescuing her?

If you truly do become the best version of yourself, the best Joseph9 you can become

then you can turn the marriage over to God & hold your head high.

I have thought long and hard about this and even have had the discussion with my IC about who I am. I really don't know what else I can do. At times I really feel as though I have turned it over to God already. My neighbor came over the other day and told me how awesome of a guy I am and if anything ever happened to him he would want me to take care of his W and kids because he thinks that highly of me and how I have carried myself through this situation.

I am always searching for what else I can do to improve on but I am really struggling with that piece.

Any suggestions?



10/5/17
7:59

Just some morning journaling before I get ready for work:

I find if interesting that my W has put her own boundaries in place. For example.

- Yesterday she cam over to the house. The garage door was open but instead of just letting herself in through the garage door she goes to the front door and knocks.

- While at the house she had to go to the bathroom. She went to the spare bathroom and shut door so I guess I wouldn't see her. While together the door was always open.

- Our youngest D got sick yesterday and is staying home today. Last week my oldest got sick and stayed home from work. My W made it a point this time to ensure that she was the one to stay home. I got the feeling she wanted to make sure she was pulling her own weight.

Any way my oldest has pictures today at school, she is in 3rd grade and has really started to be concerned about what she wears. She didn't have any dresses and she really wanted to wear one for picture day. So guess who took her shopping last night after work for a dress???? You guess it me! Normally that would have fell to my W but it was really fun and afterwards we went and got yogert.

I guess I better get used to as this appears to be my new norm! W enforcing her own boundaries and taking my D dress shopping! What is going on !!!!! RC seems so impossible at this point in time. Not because we fight or argue, that has not happened since she moved out. She is just very business like with really having no emotion. It seems like she is a pro at this arrangement and is totally settled with it.

[sandi2]

Hey, good job Dad! These little experiences will work in drawing you and your daughter even closer. One day you may hear her say, "Remember the first time you took me shopping for a dress? We had a lot fun!"

As for your W, I believe in being civil if at all possible. It is much better than the drama we see in some other people's situation. It may feel a little strange to see your W acting like a neighbor, but she is actually doing the right thing by using the guest bathroom.....and closing the door.

You do a great job here on the board, Joseph. I hope you'll continue to be a help to newcomers.

[Maika]

Yeh be the awesome Dad who has fashion sense. I do most of my shopping online now, but I do enjoy going shopping with my kids. Good on you to getting D a dress. I am sure she was over the moon doing this with you.