Finding my way out of the dark - Part 4

[Holding]

Doodler, no need to apologize for the innuendo. You're so good at it - I hope you've been able to parlay it into some kind of advantage in your life

Thanks for the advice. Taking time is hard. I do feel myself getting impatient, wanting to move on and escape the pain.

On being cold, I do realize that I was somewhat "emotionally unavailable" for parts of my MR. I'm not sure if that's because of who I am or how I reacted to my STBXW. In any case, it's something I need to improve on. My current sitch makes it so hard. I can't really try out the new me with her. I have a new set of tools, but all I'm presented with now is rotten wood.

[Holding]

So this weekend was a real adventure! (insert usual disclaimer about long post here)

I had plans to head to San Antonio and meet up with JoeJoe on Saturday. On Friday I texted my STBXW to say I was leaving Saturday and coming back on Sunday. She asked me where I was going and I said I wasn't comfortable sharing that info. Her response was "wow thanks. Use protection." When I read that, I just busted out laughing at work. The fact that she might actually be jealous was just too rich. I never responded.

About 30 minutes later she texted again saying "Holding, I don't know what the big deal is. I tell you where I'm going. But I don't care where you go and who you're with. You deserve privacy and happiness. I'm sorry." Once again, I didn't respond.

The next day, I dressed up and got ready to leave. My STBXW saw me leaving with my packed bag, but we never talked. I got on the road to SA, and about an hour later, my transmission cr@pped out! I was stuck in the middle of nowhere, and I was thinking to myself, "this svcks, but I can handle it and figure something out". The old me would've been freaking out. The old me would've never decided to drive to another city alone and meet up with a stranger.

I was calling roadside assistance, when fortunately some old jimbob mechanic guy stopped. He checked it out and said I should be able to head back home if I kept it under 60mph. At one point, the cops and an ambulance even showed up - apparently someone saw me in my car and thought I was slumped over at the wheel! The mechanic guy wished me luck and I drove off. I was so grateful for his help, and I wish I could have done something for him. The guy saved me at least $300 in towing fees!

So I limped back into town, dropped off my car at the dealership, and got a practically brand-new vehicle as a loaner. (This loaner car is important later.) I was able to reschedule with JoeJoe for lunch on Sunday, so I headed back in to SA and checked in to my hotel for the night, thankfully without incident.

On Sunday, on the way to meet JoeJoe, I noticed someone's car was broken down in a parking lot. I drove past at first, and then I thought about what that old guy had done for me. So I turned around and decided to ask them if they needed any help. I don't know cr@p about cars really, but I figured I could give them a ride or something. It turned out they had help on the way. But I drove away from that feeling a little more confident and happy.

So JoeJoe and I finally met up, and we spent about 2 hours talking. He has a lot of great positive energy, and I think he's got a shot at saving his M. If not, I know the dude will definitely be OK. JoeJoe, I hope my cynicism didn't rub off on you! If we can arrange another meetup for the Texas folks, I'll be there. If AS can make it, he should probably stop at the lumber yard on the way in.

On my way back home, STBXW texted me to say she hoped I accepted her apology from the other day (about the protection thing). She admitted she was out of line and sarcastic. So I thanked her for the apology. I did ask myself though, why should she care if I accept her apology? Whether I accept it our not is a personal matter (and STBXW doesn't get to share in my personal matters any more).

When I got back home, STBXW didn't have much to say. I did notice her looking at my bag (looking for an airline tag I think) and checking out my new shoes. But when she saw this strange car sitting out front, she started hitting me with all these questions. I explained I had transmission problems, dropped my car off, and got a loaner. She left to go to the store, and started texting me saying "You bought that car. I'm not stupid. That's a temporary buyer tag on the car." I said I didn't appreciate her tone (standing up for myself again). I reiterated that it was a loaner, and we would talk about it when she got back.

When she returned, I gave her the car key and told her to look for the paperwork in the center console. She checked it out, and then seemed like she wanted to laugh off the whole thing. She said she didn't care if I bought a new car, that I could do whatever I want. But she kept asking questions about the details of when this happened, where I brought my car, what an odd coincidence this was when I was going on my trip, etc. At one point during the conversation, I turned to S10 to say something, and she touched me on the arm to get my attention. She hasn't touched me in months. But I know better than to think this is a sign of anything meaningful.

When I asked her why she was so curious about the car, she said she didn't know why we couldn't talk about it. She said "It looks like we'll be stuck in the house together for who knows how many months before we're D, so we might as well learn how to talk to each other."

While it's interesting that my STBXW has suspicions about what I'm up to and tries to downplay them, I don't think this is any indicator she's thinking about calling off the D.

And I'm not sure I would accept not getting D at this point. I know I could never go back to our old MR. I can't even imagine what a new MR with her would be like.

[Accuray]

Holding I'm glad you had a good meetup and seem to be doing well! I do wonder why you are so cloak and dagger with W when it comes to answering her questions. It must feel to her like you're trying to provoke her with your evasiveness.

The key to "act as if", "GAL", dropping the rope and detaching is just not to let your STBX impact you at all. In the context that you don't care if they are sleeping or jumping up and down like a mad woman, it really doesn't matter what you tell them.

That's the key is not to be impacted by however they react to you. If they don't acknowledge what you said at all, who cares? If they scream at you, their lack of control is amusing. No matter what happens, your toes are still tapping and you're moving forward with your plans.

I might suggest backing off on responses that might be interpreted as passive aggressive, and just do your thing. There's no need to keep secrets.

R talk is of course off-limits. You can treat her as you would a friendly co-worker, respectful, but with lines drawn in terms of what you will share and what you won't.

I know that's confusing but its all in the nuance. I think you know what I mean.

Acc

[doodler]

Holding,

If you haven't returned the loaner car yet, then you have the opportunity of a lifetime. Halloween is a month away and the stores are stocking-up with Halloween stuff. Go to the store and get several tubes of fake blood. Put the blood on the ground just under the trunk and put a little under the car to make it look like the blood is draining out of the trunk. Situate everything to optimize the probability that your wife will see the blood. When she starts asking about it, act nervous and tell her you've go to go somewhere and go to the car and drive away.

It won't save your marriage, but it could be fun.

[AnotherStander]

She asked me where I was going and I said I wasn't comfortable sharing that info. Her response was "wow thanks. Use protection." When I read that, I just busted out laughing at work. The fact that she might actually be jealous was just too rich. I never responded.

Yes it's supposed to be a one way road- she dishes out all the pain and you receive it, LOL!

So JoeJoe and I finally met up, and we spent about 2 hours talking. He has a lot of great positive energy, and I think he's got a shot at saving his M. If not, I know the dude will definitely be OK.

Glad y'all got to meet finally!

If AS can make it, he should probably stop at the lumber yard on the way in.

Hahaha! I only administer 2x4's online

She left to go to the store, and started texting me saying "You bought that car. I'm not stupid. That's a temporary buyer tag on the car." I said I didn't appreciate her tone (standing up for myself again). I reiterated that it was a loaner, and we would talk about it when she got back.

Yeah that's a strange reaction, after you already explained it to her. Your response was appropriate!

And I'm not sure I would accept not getting D at this point. I know I could never go back to our old MR. I can't even imagine what a new MR with her would be like.

Yeah that's the thing. No one here is ever going back to their old M. And what would a new R with their WAS look like? I look at my XW now and cannot even imagine being married to her, in fact our M seems like some hazy, distant event from another lifetime. Strange how that happens, after BD there was nothing I wanted more than to get back together and now it just seems like it would be super awkward, like marrying an aunt or something, LOL!

[TBSakaJ9]

Strange how that happens, after BD there was nothing I wanted more than to get back together and now it just seems like it would be super awkward, like marrying an aunt or something, LOL!

Unfortunately or maybe fortunately I still find my W smoking hot!

[Holding]

Thanks for the replies Acc, AS, Joseph, and Doodler! (yes, even Doodler)

I do wonder why you are so cloak and dagger with W when it comes to answering her questions. It must feel to her like you're trying to provoke her with your evasiveness.

MWD does often say that we should be mysterious. Even JoeJoe said I should let my STBXW think I may be up to something. But really, I'm doing this to loosen my STBXW's control over me. For our whole M, she's almost always called the shots, and I let her, sadly. So now I'm showing her that she doesn't get to know my business. This is a boundary for me.

I might suggest backing off on responses that might be interpreted as passive aggressive, and just do your thing. There's no need to keep secrets.

Which of my responses struck you as P/A? I'd honestly like to know. It's something I'm trying to work on, and I need to be more aware.

On the aspect of secrets, my STBXW is NOSY. She will pick at the tiniest detail till she gets what she wants. I'm going to do what I want, and she doesn't need to know. She doesn't get to have a microscope on my life any more.

AS, my M is already starting to look like a hazy memory from long ago. I think back and ask how I let myself live that way.

Joseph, I sometimes look at my wife and think she's attractive, but it's only a superficial observation. Beauty is only skin deep.

Doodler, get help

[joejoe1]

Holding,

I dont think it will hurt to tell her you went to SA. But if truly don't want to, then dont. But her knowing you went to SA is not asking as knowing why you went.

You are doing good.

Keep up the great work.

Did you smile and ask how was her weekend?

[Holding]

Hey JoeJoe, no I didn't manage to smile and ask her about her weekend. I just don't think I can pull off the smile and have it come off as sincere. I'm not a master at that like you are. I was thinking about asking her about the weekend, but I didn't have an opportunity since the questioning about the car really put things in a different mood. But the next day I did ask her how her knee scan at the doctor's went. So she stopped for just a minute to tell me about it.

SOMETHING BIG (maybe)

Yesterday was a rough day for me. I'm dealing with car issues, and to top it off STBXW and I had a disagreement once again about shared finances. Looking through our bank statements, I was suddenly hit with all this emotion about everything. So I was honestly in a pretty foul mood last night. She asked me what was wrong and I said I was frustrated with the car sitch. She told me she was sorry I was going through it. I thanked her for her sympathy.

She asked me if we could talk, and she joined me in the MBR. We talked for over an hour. Big-time temp check. I think I need some advice...

She started out sitting in a chair while I sat on the bed. She told me she's conflicted about what she's doing. She has doubts, and she's felt this way ever since she told me she wanted the D, back in July. She wanted to talk to me sooner, but could tell I wasn't interested in talking to her. She said her L (who is also her friend) told her it wasn't too late to stop this. And a female friend asked her if she was sure she wanted to do this.

She ran through the problems in our M and why she came to feel the way she did. I listened and validated. She talked about her feelings. I validated and said I was feeling a lot of the same things. She asked me why I did what I did in the MR (being emotionally distant, which she described as emotional abuse). I talked about how I was hurt as well. Through this while convo, she was vulnerable. She cried and said this wasn't easy. I told her I understood; I'm sure it's rough.

She said she got off Facebook, because she kept getting hit on by all these guys, plus she was upset after everyone in my family unfriended her. The fact that she dropped FB came as a total shock to me, since she's always enjoyed that attention and praise so much. It honestly made me wonder if she's making some worthwhile changes.

I mentioned I went to lunch with a female coworker (she's married) who also told me about getting messages from random guys on FB, and how prevalent that is. STBXW said I could take her out to lunch some time. I said I'd think about it, and I'm sure I made a surprised face too.

She told me about her weekend out of town from a couple of weeks ago - seeing her family, hanging out with old friends, getting drunk and throwing up. I laughed, because there were genuinely funny parts. She got animated and her mood really improved.

I said I felt like I was talking to my old W, the person I used to know, for the first time since BD. I thanked her for sharing that view of herself with me. She said she missed her best friend (me), and being able to talk to me. I told her I missed that too.

She said she felt like she was sharing, and I wasn't. I could tell she wanted to know about last weekend, but I didn't tell her. I talked about how work's been going, how I'm trying out some new projects to get out of my comfort zone. I told her about my second time skydiving, which she didn't know about. She asked me if I would have ever changed if she hadn't mentioned D. I told her I wasn't sure.

We talked about how couples get back together, I can't remember how we got on the topic. I told her I've read that it's hard work, requiring commitment from both people, IC for both, MC, and plenty of time. She just kinda listened.

She asked me if I think we can ever be friends. I said maybe, since we'll be seeing each other probably for the rest of our lives (because of the kids). She mentioned 2 different women she knows who were divorced and ended up back together with their exes. She moved to the bed and laid at the foot of it.

She asked me what books I've been reading, since she's seen me reading. I told her about the NG book and codependency book. She asked if was codependent in our M, and I said I think I was, that I looked to her for my sense of worth and value.

She asked if I could ever trust her again. I told her maybe. When I asked her the same thing, she didn't really answer, but said she doesn't trust me at all right now.

She was starting to get tired. She asked if I ever think about my life being good after the D, like if I look forward to it. I said sometimes. Once I said that, she said "that's what I needed to know." Her mood changed.

She got up and asked if she could use the garden tub in the master bath. I told her yes. I left the room to go do something else while she took a bath. After her bath, she asked if she could use the tub again some other time, and I said yes, as long as she respects my privacy and knocks before coming in.

Then she said "Holding, a while back you told me my heart was somewhere else, with someone else. But this whole time my heart's been stuck behind a rock and chained to a wall. But I think your heart has moved on." She dropped that last part like a bomb, and then walked out of the room. As she walked away, I said "You're wrong."

So what do I make of this? Well, I think I did some things very well, and other things very poorly. Here's my take: She's about to be 100% committed to the D, and wanted to deal with some lingering feelings. But it's tempting to see here a possible change of heart - not a 180 from her, but maybe the start of a slow U turn.

Any advice, fellow DBers?

[Accuray]

holding -- interesting!

Remember to believe none of what they say and only 50% of what they do.

You might be tempted to view this situation that W has dangled a carrot and if you respond "the right way" you can reconcile.

I would avoid that way of looking at things at all costs.

YOU ARE THE PRIZE TO BE WON.

If there's going to be a reconciliation, it is SHE who has to prove to you that she wants it, because she is the one that strayed. You don't have to prove that you're committed. I would take her smarmy "that's what I needed to know" comment and completely ignore it.

I'm not suggesting a Mexican standoff here where neither party will make the first move, but often the WAS will want to keep you on the shelf as an insurance policy, everything feels safer if they have the option to return.

When they begin to sense that you're no longer waiting on the shelf and may no longer be available, they panic, and will manipulate you into thinking you have a chance of reconciliation, and as soon as you come back to the table they will distance again.

I suspect that this is what your wife is doing -- she's uncomfortable with the fact that you've been distancing, she doesn't like it at all, so she's trying to tease you back to the waiting area. Don't fall for it. If anything, keep distancing, keep going out and having fun. Be the man you want to be and keep her off of your emotional radar!

Do you really believe "she kept getting hit on by all these guys" on Facebook or do you think she was saying that to manipulate you?

I obviously know tons of women on FB and despite many of them being very attractive, none of them are constantly being hit on by "all these guys". There are a million dating apps for that.

I would say you're best bet is to limit what you reveal about yourself and your state of mind in these conversations. Listen and validate but don't volunteer much. The more she wonders what you're up to and how you're feeling the better.

Acc