My Journey with WAS (Part 4)

[Maika]

Yeh mxdup - the issue is that whether these little things are actually small olive branches for gently reconnecting or just bread crumbs to keep the LBS emotionally involved. It is hard to decipher. But, I think that if you just look at them as bread crumbs that mean nothing and detach and keep working on lowering expectations, then the invites become easier. My problem is that I am not at that stage of detachment and low expectations that these invites don't cause emotional harm to me.

And upping the GAL and focusing on your own improvements is truly the way to get to detachment and zero expectations. I just haven't been doing that as hard core in the last little while and it has impacted me. I need to consistently keep building myself so that I can see the bread crumbs for what they are instead of trying to divine some explanation.

I now see that there is a big difference between attempts at reconnection and reconciliation. If the LBS treats the former as a fun thing while being detached, then it is fine. I think the problem comes from confusing the former as the latter. From everything I have read here, signs of reconciliation will be obvious and you won't have to second guess them.

[Parkema]

mxdup,

Why are you denying RC?

Is your W in an A? I cant understand that with the right advice and counselling and dedication from you both you wouldn't want to RC your MR!

Please read some of the piecing threads if you haven't already and don't waste this opportunity. Stop all the hurt and move on in a better MR.

Mark.

[AnotherStander]

I definitely get the logic behind that. But, one of her main grievances was that I was not into her during the last few years in the MR and that I don't really care or love her. So, I feel like if I am communicating to her that I am 'not into her' anymore, it feels like I am just repeating what she believes happened in the MR.

I understand. But again, she has undergone a major shift in mindset. She is a WAS. That's a much different dynamic than dealing with an unhappy W. With an unhappy W, if she tells you that you're "not into her" then it's simple, you need to pay more attention to her and make her feel special. But when a WAS is telling you that, she's not asking you to change, she's TELLING YOU WHY IT IS OVER. Do you understand the difference? Anything you do now is chalked up by her as "too little too late". An unhappy W WANTS you to change. A WAS doesn't give a crap, and in fact when you do 180's it makes a WAS angry. "Why is he changing now when it's too late? I told him over and over again what the problems were and he did nothing, so why now when I've already made up my mind?"

but she felt that she lost me in the MR and so this is just a confirmation of that.

Don't oversell the hugs, they're just hugs. They're not making her think "oh wow, he's really done a 180 and is paying me lots of attention now!" They're probably making her think "here he goes again, he's so desperate to cling to this marriage that he thinks these silly hugs will make a difference."

I don't want to be her plan B, but I don't want to give her ammunition for her perceptions - which are wrong btw.

Well, her perceptions are her reality. I mean I get what you're saying, she thinks you didn't care in the M when you really did. But nevertheless, what you showed her in the M is what became her perceptions and her reality. You cared inside, but that doesn't really matter much when you don't show it on the outside, which is what pretty much all of us here are guilty of because we quit working on the M after years or decades and let things coast on autopilot.

IC told me that it might be a good time to have a chat about what she wants out of the separation - is it time and space, or does she want to take small steps for seeing how we connect. I am not sure about that right now because it feels like I am putting her in a position to make a decision, no matter how I phrase it. But a part of me thinks that I really need to have this conversation. I dunno.

I think a lot of DBers are scared to death of doing something "anti-DB". But there is no one thing that is going to save your M, and no one thing that will put the final nail in the coffin either. One of the tenets of DB'ing is try something new now and then and monitor the results. I don't see any harm in having that convo with her (if you want to).

I just don't know what to do. I just can't handle the hurt that my kids are going through and that I can do nothing about it. As I've said before, it is so effin' unfair for them and that they don't deserve this.

I'm sorry you're feeling down. It is a really unpleasant experience for everyone involved, no question about it. Are your kids in IC? If not then you might consider that. At this point there's no putting things back to "normal" so your task is to get you and the kids through it as smoothly and healthily as possible. Don't dwell too much on how much it [censored], concentrate instead on getting past it.

I dunno. I am tired of playing some strategy game.

Can you clarify what you mean by that? Because you should most definitely not be playing a strategy game, so if you are then some tweaking is needed.

Hope AS comes by soon and gives me some 2x4s

I hope I didn't disappoint

[AnotherStander]

It's impacting me emotionally because I don't know what her intentions are - like why is she reaching out to me when she asked for a S, which I understood as her wanting time and space. So, if I am reading that wrong, I'd like a clarification.

I think you're misinterpreting her signals. I think she may be trying to keep a little bit of the old family life going for the kids and for you, to help all of you transition to post-M life. My XW did it too. And in fact 5 years later she still does it to some extent, when our girls are in town visiting she'll usually try to set something up for all of us to have lunch or dinner together, and we have bday parties together too. Personally I think it's great for the kids so I do it, it tells the kids that we're willing to set aside our differences in support of them. But if it's hurting you too much then maybe you don't do it, it's really your choice. But I don't think you should see it as her sending out recon signals, I don't think she is at all.

I keep thinking this means something but in fact it might just be her wanting to spend 'family' time.

Exactly, it doesn't mean anything. Not right now.

Detachment needs to happen hard in any case, which is where I am struggling right now.

You're barely 4 months post BD and 2 months post S. Give yourself time! Detachment is not an on-off switch, it's a rheostat that you turn up very slowly. You'll get there, just be patient.

[Maika]

I understand. But again, she has undergone a major shift in mindset. She is a WAS. That's a much different dynamic than dealing with an unhappy W. With an unhappy W, if she tells you that you're "not into her" then it's simple, you need to pay more attention to her and make her feel special. But when a WAS is telling you that, she's not asking you to change, she's TELLING YOU WHY IT IS OVER. Do you understand the difference? Anything you do now is chalked up by her as "too little too late". An unhappy W WANTS you to change. A WAS doesn't give a crap, and in fact when you do 180's it makes a WAS angry. "Why is he changing now when it's too late? I told him over and over again what the problems were and he did nothing, so why now when I've already made up my mind?"

WOW!!!! Just WOW!!!!! Dayummmmmm!!!

THANK YOU! That makes it crystal clear. The distinction between WAS and an unhappy W - now that is gold. Clarity has been received.

Don't oversell the hugs, they're just hugs. They're not making her think "oh wow, he's really done a 180 and is paying me lots of attention now!" They're probably making her think "here he goes again, he's so desperate to cling to this marriage that he thinks these silly hugs will make a difference."

hahahahahahahahahahhahahaha!!!! - the oversold hugs! Man, that does make me look like a pathetic fool with it being perceived as clingy.
Good one! I can stop now cuz I don't like giving them right now anyway.

I think a lot of DBers are scared to death of doing something "anti-DB". But there is no one thing that is going to save your M, and no one thing that will put the final nail in the coffin either. One of the tenets of DB'ing is try something new now and then and monitor the results. I don't see any harm in having that convo with her (if you want to).

Yeh, I am going to think on it and figure out exactly what I need to say or ask her. IC is all for it, but I also want to touch base with a DB coach - hopefully soon.

At this point there's no putting things back to "normal" so your task is to get you and the kids through it as smoothly and healthily as possible

Yeah you're so right. That has to be my focus for now with the kids.
I can cry about it later to process the hurt.

Can you clarify what you mean by that? Because you should most definitely not be playing a strategy game, so if you are then some tweaking is needed.

Yeah, point well taken. I think this whole time I have been doing some things to see how W will react to it - even subconsciously. I need to let that go and just do DB for me.

I hope I didn't disappoint

Oh never AS!! Much needed! Thank you so much.

[Maika]

Yup you're right. All of this is just easing me and the kids into the post MR life. I'll do what I can for the kids, but I am personally done with this 'family' time - it's fake and I can't stand it.

I think I will be seriously able to start detaching once I am out of the matrimonial home - 3 weeks. I am looking forward to the new place and getting my home gym set up. Also, seriously working on my personal health goals.

Thanks again AS.

[Jmstl]

Yup you're right. All of this is just easing me and the kids into the post MR life. I'll do what I can for the kids, but I am personally done with this 'family' time - it's fake and I can't stand it.

I think I will be seriously able to start detaching once I am out of the matrimonial home - 3 weeks. I am looking forward to the new place and getting my home gym set up. Also, seriously working on my personal health goals.

Thanks again AS.

selling the house and moving was, for me, probably the most significant step in my ability to recover. Being in that house alone every night for 2 months was pure torture, and my mood has lifted 200% since then.

I suspect it will do the same for you.

[TBSakaJ9]

Sorry to contradict but I am glad I stayed in the house. The kids love being in their home and still call it their house vs mommy's apartment. I also know all the neighbors and have a tremendous comfort level being there.

Last night I even took a leak off the patio and I also didn't wash the dishes

[joejoe1]

J9,

I take a leak of the patio and in the Back yard all the time. It's my patio and backyard.

[Jmstl]

Sorry to contradict but I am glad I stayed in the house. The kids love being in their home and still call it their house vs mommy's apartment. I also know all the neighbors and have a tremendous comfort level being there.

Last night I even took a leak off the patio and I also didn't wash the dishes

You can also probably afford the house on your income, and/or didn't try to sell it with expectations of saving your M though either.