My Journey with WAS (Part 4)

[joejoe1]

Maika,

Keep up the hard work. She's taken notice, niccccceeeee.

[AnotherStander]

When's the next DB convention. I'll bring the food and T will bring beers. The agenda will include Sandi giving a 4 hour lecture to all the LBS and literally smacking them with 2x4s during the Q&A sessions. I am guessing AS and TxHubby will want to join that action as well.

I would much rather see some of the WAS's get invited along for a nice 2x4! Maybe even a 4x4! I especially feel that way after reading T384's update, grrrrrr!

Had a great GAL activity last night - went to an open mic poetry reading with a featured guest. I don't write poetry but I love the form. It was fun and I talked to a buncha budding poets and writers.

Tonight is climbing night with one of my buddies. Gonna try a difficult route - lets see.

NICE! That's the stuff!

LLs for my W are physical touch and quality time - both very hard to do without coming across as being in hot pursuit. I haven't done any quality time with her in the last month or so. In terms of physical touch, the one thing I can do is give her hugs, but the last few days she has given me the one armed 'friendly' with some pats on my shoulder type of hugs - which feel like pity hugs lol.

Hahaha! Oh yes indeed, I remember those pity hugs all too well. That's your queue to quit it, she doesn't want that anymore. Honestly 5LL is more valuable in helping you learn what you did wrong for future reference, it's not easy to implement it post-BD. ESPECIALLY PT. Here's the simple truth of the matter, she doesn't want love from you now. Period. Not PT, not QT, not anything. Maybe she will again some day, and when she does you'll know what to do. But for now, set 5LL aside and give her time and space.

So, I dunno if I should just discontinue doing that - but she has the tendency to interpret that as I am upset with her or not into her any more.

If you are GAL'ing and she sees you happy and detached and full of life then she is not going to misinterpret your lack of PT and QT as you being upset. What about "not into her", well yes, you WANT her to think that. She'll never want you back until she thinks she might lose you.

I guess my zero expectations are after all not at zero.

EXACTLY!!!! I wish more LBSs could honestly admit that, because it is the case for ANYONE who is less than a year post-BD. A lot of LBSs like to live in denial though, they think they've dropped the rope and moved on but behind their back where they think no one can see they've got the death grip on that rope.

But, then if I do DB, it's just confirming her previous grievances.

Again, you have to understand her mindset now is NOT what it was pre-BD. If you've read many of Sandi's posts you've seen her talk about how WAW's cannot stand their LBH, they are REPULSED by their efforts to do 180's. With time who knows, but for now that's your reality.

[Maika]

AS - thanks for your feedback, esp about the LLs. A couple of points maybe you can help me with. Others welcome to chime in as well.

Hahaha! Oh yes indeed, I remember those pity hugs all too well. That's your queue to quit it, she doesn't want that anymore.

So, this evening I got a proper full hug from her when she came in, but got one of the pity hugs when I left - I will elaborate on this at the end. But yeah, I feel like I need to quit this right now because of 2 reasons: 1) I think I am doing this so that it can be something that is one of the things that turns the tide in my favor, and so having expectations of this; 2) I am just not into it; I don't feel like giving this woman physical affection right now.

What about "not into her", well yes, you WANT her to think that. She'll never want you back until she thinks she might lose you.

I definitely get the logic behind that. But, one of her main grievances was that I was not into her during the last few years in the MR and that I don't really care or love her. So, I feel like if I am communicating to her that I am 'not into her' anymore, it feels like I am just repeating what she believes happened in the MR. I am not acting like I am head in heels love with her, but she felt that she lost me in the MR and so this is just a confirmation of that. I don't want to be her plan B, but I don't want to give her ammunition for her perceptions - which are wrong btw.

If you've read many of Sandi's posts you've seen her talk about how WAW's cannot stand their LBH, they are REPULSED by their efforts to do 180's

Again, I totally get that, but I don't understand why she keeps inviting me to dinners and share a glass of wine. I know that there is cake-eating, but with a WAS there could also be really small steps to see reconnection. It definitely isn't strong signs of her trying to do recon, but I don't know if she's trying to do that or if it's her wanting to enjoy some aspects of the MR. IC told me that it might be a good time to have a chat about what she wants out of the separation - is it time and space, or does she want to take small steps for seeing how we connect. I am not sure about that right now because it feels like I am putting her in a position to make a decision, no matter how I phrase it. But a part of me thinks that I really need to have this conversation. I dunno.

So, the evening went alright - I offered to help with something and I shouldn't have, but it was a small thing and won't happen again. Had dinner with W, BIL, his wife, and kids and it went fine. I've started to pay closer attention to W's body language and the whole time during dinner she was facing away from me during dinner, maybe made eye contact a couple of times.

For bedtime, my S asked me to put him to bed and I did. Kid had a hard time going to bed. I put him to sleep 3 times and he came downstairs every time to see me off, with the last time just sobbing and asking me to stay. Ahhhh!! I was just so effin' cut up and raw from this. I took him back up every time and just gave him so much love and affection and tried to get him to sleep. The last time he came down, I took him back to his room and then W came in and said she would put him to bed. She had offered earlier too but I said I would put him to sleep as he wanted me. So, I left and I got one of those dumba$$ pity hugs.

The times when my kids are really not doing well with this, it just snuffs out any motivation on my part to work things out with W. I don't even know why I am worrying about what she thinks if I don't do PT and QT. Or that I go semi-dark and do NC. All of that has previously provided evidence for her grievances during MR.

I just don't know what to do. I just can't handle the hurt that my kids are going through and that I can do nothing about it. As I've said before, it is so effin' unfair for them and that they don't deserve this.

I just feel like shutting out W and not giving a flying fcuk what she thinks or does - but just be there for my kids 150% and figure out a life without W.

I don't want to sound defeatist or hopeless, but maybe I am the LBS that needs time and space from her. All of this family stuff seems so fake to me.

I don't think I am focusing on myself as much as I need to be doing. I am still stuck in the matrimonial home for about three weeks and I feel like it's holding me back in moving on.

I really just feel like sitting down with W and having one big conversation - what is her purpose for the S; you initiated the S, so you need to come talk to me when you're ready and I am not bringing MR issues up; I am upbeat and positive because I am working on myself and I have good professional help that is helping me work through pain and hurt; and maybe some other things.

I dunno. I am tired of playing some strategy game.

[TBSakaJ9]

I just don't know what to do. I just can't handle the hurt that my kids are going through and that I can do nothing about it. As I've said before, it is so effin' unfair for them and that they don't deserve this.

I just feel like shutting out W and not giving a flying fcuk what she thinks or does - but just be there for my kids 150% and figure out a life without W.

I don't want to sound defeatist or hopeless, but maybe I am the LBS that needs time and space from her. All of this family stuff seems so fake to me.

I don't think I am focusing on myself as much as I need to be doing. I am still stuck in the matrimonial home for about three weeks and I feel like it's holding me back in moving on.

I really just feel like sitting down with W and having one big conversation - what is her purpose for the S; you initiated the S, so you need to come talk to me when you're ready and I am not bringing MR issues up; I am upbeat and positive because I am working on myself and I have good professional help that is helping me work through pain and hurt; and maybe some other things.

I dunno. I am tired of playing some strategy game.

M.......I dont have all the answers but I agree with everything you said I above. I realized the more I tried to hang on and put myself in these situation with my W the more hurt I got on the inside. I never walked away with what I wanted and it was starting to lead to more resentment on my part.

I think if you are going to continue you really have to have no expectations but it sounds like you kind of do.

We just left D's soccer game and my oldest creid for her momy most of the way home. It is frustrating to me but I no I have no control over the situation and approaching my W would only make it worse.

The only hope I have is that at some point she comes to her senses but that hasn't happened yet.

They say you have to be prepared to lose your MR in order to save it. I know whenyou were DBing hard it had an impact on her and you changed your strategy. Only you know what you comfortable with however I think you have to decide what your approach is going to be and stick with it.

I remember in one of my old posts asking Blu that DBing to me felt like I was doing nothing to save my MR other than working on myself and she agreed. Maybe you are trying to hard and placing too much focus on your W.

I remember not inviting my W to my bday party. It was hard not do but I knew it was the right thing for me as I do not enjoy being around her, getting pity hugs and not truely feeling like a family.

[Maika]

Thanks J.

I think I need to separate what my kids are going through and just be there for them and keep them grounded, from whatever is between W and me.

I am going to talk to a DB coach about sitting down with W and having a conversation. I have IC next week and will chat with her about how to approach this too. I don't want it to happen from emotion and just being impulsive. She is also expecting me to take the lead with this and so instead of having some long conversations about the MR, I just want to state some things and then leave it in her court.

I also don't want to plan this convo until early October after I settle in my new place. I need W to work with me to settle some house stuff in the next few weeks and I'd rather not have a tense situation.

I think I need to figure out what's right for me and what makes me feel better, grounded, and empowered. All these frequent interactions with W are not helping.

I need to up my GAL a bit and work on detaching. Hope AS comes by soon and gives me some 2x4s.

[TBSakaJ9]

I need to up my GAL a bit and work on detaching. Hope AS comes by soon and gives me some 2x4s.

Paging AS! I am sure he will be along very soon to build you up and break you down with a few strokes of the keyboard!

I think I need to separate what my kids are going through and just be there for them and keep them grounded, from whatever is between W and me.

It's hard to not let the one impact the other but you can't control it. There have been a couple of times where I was close to saying something to my W about what she was doing with our children. I don't really see anything positive about her being at a friends house with my girls and her friends 20 something yr old neighbors coming over. After I thought it over though I realized I can't control it, ultimately I have to trust her as a parent and that she will not subject our D's to anything they shouldn't be around. I think it all stems from the loss of control.

I am going to talk to a DB coach about sitting down with W and having a conversation. I have IC next week and will chat with her about how to approach this too. I don't want it to happen from emotion and just being impulsive. She is also expecting me to take the lead with this and so instead of having some long conversations about the MR, I just want to state some things and then leave it in her court

.

I have 1 session left and am saving it until something major happens and I see a real shift in her actions. I think if you are going to continue to go over for dinner, have sleep overs or whatever you really have to have no expectations and some how figure out a way to detach as well to protect yourself.

Whenever I think about reaching out to my W, trying to make an effort or am feeling weak and want to ask her out I always think about how she has treated me and the dates or interactions she has had with other men. Those thoughts always ground me and bring me back to don't do it you are better than that.

I also don't want to plan this convo until early October after I settle in my new place. I need W to work with me to settle some house stuff in the next few weeks and I'd rather not have a tense situation.

I struggle with that now also. When she first moved out we talked about mediation, collaborative D and getting through this as cheap as possible. I don't want to ruin our ability to work together as I am navigating the limbo and DB process. Sometimes it is not always as black and white as some people make it out to be.

I think I need to figure out what's right for me and what makes me feel better, grounded, and empowered. All these frequent interactions with W are not helping.

I agree!! It's all about M-train!

I need to up my GAL a bit and work on detaching. Hope AS comes by soon and gives me some 2x4s.

I am sure he will give you a couple 4x4's!

[Maika]

It's hard to not let the one impact the other but you can't control it.

very true. It's hard not to blame W for what the kids are going through because she put us in this situation, instead of trying to work with me and not break up the family like this. So, resentment can build.

I think if you are going to continue to go over for dinner, have sleep overs or whatever you really have to have no expectations and some how figure out a way to detach as well to protect yourself.

I am going to phase out the dinners slowly. Sleep overs haven't happened since that week and so that's not coming back any time soon, which I think is good - for me emotionally.

[TBSakaJ9]

I am going to phase out the dinners slowly. Sleep overs haven't happened since that week and so that's not coming back any time soon, which I think is good - for me emotionally.

I think this would be good conversation to have with your IC, DB Coach and the experienced folks on this board. On 1 hand she is reaching out and inviting you which is positive however it is impacting you emotionally. I thought I remember you telling her one time that you didn't want to go on a hike with her and the kids because it was too painful. Then she came back and said well we are here or something when you are ready. Did you ever get to the bottom of that conversation?

[Maika]

Yeah I haven't gotten to the bottom of that conversation. She basically said at that point that she's not going to reach out to me and that she will wait for me to talk to her - which kinda infuriated me because I didn't ask to be in this situation so the onus is on her to bring it up - but I think I need to take a lead on this and that's why I am thinking of having the conversation about the point of the separation for her now that we are a few months from BD.

It's impacting me emotionally because I don't know what her intentions are - like why is she reaching out to me when she asked for a S, which I understood as her wanting time and space. So, if I am reading that wrong, I'd like a clarification.

I think that if its inadvisable to have that conversation, then I need to respond positively to her reaching out and reciprocate, but have to emotionally detach - otherwise, I keep thinking this means something but in fact it might just be her wanting to spend 'family' time.

Detachment needs to happen hard in any case, which is where I am struggling right now.

[mxdup]

But, one of her main grievances was that I was not into her during the last few years in the MR and that I don't really care or love her. So, I feel like if I am communicating to her that I am 'not into her' anymore, it feels like I am just repeating what she believes happened in the MR.

I have the same issue. My W is still in the house and is starting to rethink her decision to leave. She also says that I never really loved her, that I took her for granted and that I expected her to handle "everything" for me. I feel as though her invites to dinner, movies, walks, etc are some sort of olive branch and following the DB rules, I am denying her attempts to begin reconciliation.