Going through divorce #4

[25yearsmlc]

I find it somehow annoying how my XW always starts her messages now with "sorry that I am bothering you again". No one else does this... It's like I'm completely foreign for her or she feels like I'm not interested. I would be annoyed regardless of who'd do that.

IMO, she's sort of conceding that she may be overstepping your boundaries and N/C. As a co-parent that can happen legitimately. I think her intentions are reasonable with this.

I've been watching this course in Udemy called "the neuroscience of reframing". It has been really interesting. Now I just need to figure out how I always remember everything on the fly. For example what 25 said about the word BUT. Not butt. But. I think these strategies could potentially be very effective. Acting "as if" is sort of reframing too.


Reframing is key. There is such a thing as "neuro plasticity" too. We are working new muscles in our brains, that can change our way of thinking. It's Cognitive Behavior Therapy that morphs into a new "muscle" that reacts better.

^^That's a layman's phraseology but still applies. I've had to put a STOP sign image in my head a few times lately (it's a weird backslide for me to have obsessive thoughts at night, but lately I have struggled with it).

So I put the Stop Sign image in my head to just STOP going there. Then I get out one of the "new mantras" that help me replace the negative with a neutral bandage and then move to a positive, empowering belief. YES it takes practice.


I went to take kids out even though it wasn't my turn today. XW asked nicely because she has a high fever now. I'm not even interested anymore if I'm "being too nice". Whatever. I just want to be with my kids.


Not to minimize your experience but this^^^ one is crucial and I'm glad you get it. Of course you want the max time with your kids. Good on you for putting them first.



I've been trying to be much more extroverted now. My D is constantly asking "who was that? Did you know him/her?". Then she's surprised when I say no. I feel that this really is a skill you need to practise rather than a quality you are born with.

I agree. My mother was an extreme extrovert and I'm sure that rubbed off on me at an early age. My Meyers Briggs's test results confirmed it.

Keep at this, it does improve.

[lcause]

IMO, she's sort of conceding that she may be overstepping your boundaries and N/C. As a co-parent that can happen legitimately. I think her intentions are reasonable with this.

She has set those boundaries herself. I never said anything about N/C and if kids are concerned, there's no reason for that. I guess I just have to live with it.

I've had to put a STOP sign image in my head a few times lately (it's a weird backslide for me to have obsessive thoughts at night, but lately I have struggled with it).

So I put the Stop Sign image in my head to just STOP going there. Then I get out one of the "new mantras" that help me replace the negative with a neutral bandage and then move to a positive, empowering belief. YES it takes practice.

I agree with all of this. I'm sorry you are having obsessive thoughts. I feel that meditation really helps with this. Also, reframing by "detaching from yourself" and experiencing the thoughts or memories in 3rd person. Remembering the good parts and bit by bit reframing the negatives out.

I really suggest everyone to buy that course. Udemy has a ton of good material and most of the time the courses are on sale for $10 or so. The course has several reframing techniques and she explains really well how and what causes those things, via giving examples and citing research/psych books. I'm going to order the books too after I've finished all the current ones.

Not to minimize your experience but this^^^ one is crucial and I'm glad you get it. Of course you want the max time with your kids. Good on you for putting them first.

Yes, I don't give a crap anymore since I realized I don't want her back. I want to live my own life and be the best father I can be. My D needs me now more than ever.

Keep at this, it does improve.

Thanks ((( ))) I believe this as well

[lcause]

For crying out loud. I'm getting second thoughts of not wanting her back. I made Robinson Crusoe style practise reframing and even though I see positives on this too, I still find the time, sex, closeness, children and her really something I could fight for.

I have to remind myself not to think this way. The stop sign could work. I feel that ultimately, seeing the M via your spouse's eyes, should give you a rather good view of how hopeful you can be. We drifted so much apart in the previous 6 months, that I don't know how that closeness or her feelings could ever come back. I slept mostly on the sofa to let them sleep better as I my alarm clock woke them up at 5am. I was peasimistic and dragged her down. I was too absent and not affectionate enough. Also, I can't say anything about the future. I realized that. There is no point to. Live in this moment, broaden the timelines and seek things that give the ultimate pleasure and happiness. Concentrate completely on my own life and kids. If someday she approaches me and is interested in starting from scratch, and she's changed too, I can't really say how I would feel then. Most likely this does not happen as we are so young and she's already with someone else. Also, I'm not going to wait and if I meet an interesting woman now, I won't stop myself. I guess I'm trying to say that I'm not sure but I probably subconsciously find it easier to think this way in order to prevent myself from picturing things that won't happen. I feel that trusting to false hope would keep me walking on the same already made path without pushing myself to create new ones. Staying attached to hope ultimately keeps me doing the same mistakes and not letting myself reach the limitless potential everyone of us has.

I've read some of the sitches and I feel that they are close to where I was when I joined here. Now I see that ultimately everything, no matter how bad, has positives too. I've read that people who have really hit the rock bottom and got up from there appreciate the life in a completely different way. They are most of the time the happiest people too. It comes down to the question if the person can use the situation as their advantage or if they choose to give up. Situations like this, losing a close one, losing a job etc. while extremely sad and unfortunate can still yield a huge personal growth and act as a catalyst.

If you read this far, remember that the only thing between you and what you want is your mind. Remember that you can't control others but you can create your own happiness. Your spouse might or might not come back - but rather than seeing the end goal, push and force yourself to suffer and ultimately reach the goals you've always wanted to reach. Learn to love the process rather than imagining yourself reaching the goal. When you understand that we are not from a mold but we are LEARNERS, you can see the world differently and approach things in a more relaxed way (e.g. critique).

Finally. I'm trying to say that I'm going to concentrate fully on myself, I am not going to monitor my XWs behavior or shift my behavior depending on hers. I think this will keep me attached much longer. I'm going to act like a human is supposed to. I appreciate the M and the result (two wonderful kids and good memories) thus I will act like she'd be a distant relative. I'm going to let the pieces of the puzzle to fall into their places by their own. I will use the methods described in here and DB/DR as an ultimate guideline in life and I will monitor my own behavior towards others much more often, reflecting back and learning along the way. I will continue reading and enjoying self-improvement material.

[AnotherStander]

For crying out loud. I'm getting second thoughts of not wanting her back.

Of course, that's completely normal. You can't drop the rope this quickly, no one here can. Some people try to convince themselves they have, but anyone that comes here does so because they want to save their M and that desire doesn't go away in a few months.

I still find the time, sex, closeness, children and her really something I could fight for.

I have to remind myself not to think this way.

Why not? Missing her and missing what you had is part of grief and recovery. I completely agree that if you start spinning you need to try and divert your thoughts but that's not the same thing as thoughts of hope, love and nostalgia.

We drifted so much apart in the previous 6 months, that I don't know how that closeness or her feelings could ever come back.

They absolutely can. Surely you know someone that has done just that, I have several friends that have. A good friend that I had lunch with last week had a WAS, she angrily broke up, coerced him into immediately selling the business and ranch and splitting the proceeds and moved in with OM. May have been MLC based on what he told me. They barely spoke for a year, then she started reaching out to him. For another year they dated, now they live together and have their rings on again. And they are exceedingly happy!

Also, I'm not going to wait and if I meet an interesting woman now, I won't stop myself.

Barely 3 months post BD and you're already going there? You're not ready.

I guess I'm trying to say that I'm not sure but I probably subconsciously find it easier to think this way in order to prevent myself from picturing things that won't happen.

NEVER discount the power of positive thinking. Who do you think has a better chance of reconciling:

- Person A gets up every morning crying about his failed marriage and thinking about how his W is done and never coming back. He mopes through the day trying to put on a happy face but knowing deep inside it's all over, and maybe his life is over too. He will never be happy again, but he needs to survive for the kids.

- Person B wakes up every morning feeling confident that with enough time, his WAS will be coming back! He knows it takes patience, so rather than wait around he's going to busy himself with being freakin' awesome again today! He's packing his day with activities to keep his mind busy and keep himself sharp.

Person A will very likely never reconcile, because he's already given up on his M and even life itself. What WAS would want to reconcile with that sad sack anyway?

Person B will likely have a shot from his WAS, but even if he never gets that shot at some point his positive attitude drives him past his need to reconcile to be happy.

We all start out as Person A but DB'ing is about becoming Person B. And that was me. I decided my M WOULD reconcile. I told myself that every day. Hope was what got me through. I made myself super busy in the meantime. The byproduct of all of that hope and GAL'ing is eventually I was no longer driven by hope for recon, somewhere along the line my motivation became just to enjoy life no matter what it brings. That was when I truly dropped the rope.

I've read that people who have really hit the rock bottom and got up from there appreciate the life in a completely different way. They are most of the time the happiest people too.

Yes, I would say that's me. I used to tell people that after BD it was like a fell into a well and hit rock bottom, then a sinkhole opened up under me and I fell into a deeper, darker place that I never knew existed. Coming out of that hole was a long, difficult process. But yes, I am now exceedingly happy, I loved being a married family man and I miss it but this new life is awesome in completely different ways!

[lcause]

AS, thanks for commenting.

I don't know a single couple who would have recon. I know a lot of people who have remarried or married the next person even if they had a child with the previous partner. It seems extremely rare. My age probably contributes as I feel people over 40-50 are more likely to recon. The culture in my country is much more towards "when it is over it is over". This is why there are no separations. People divorce directly.

I didn't mean I was going to be person A. I just give up on it and stop thinking about whether I want recon or not. I'm not going to mope or be sad. If it happens, it happens and we'll see where I am then. Meanwhile I won't stop myself from moving on, finding a new woman, moving away to different city to pursue my dream job... what I was trying to say is that I'm letting things happen on their own weight and solely focus on achieving what I want to achieve whether she's with me or not.

Yes, 3 months in but if a perfect woman would approach me, I wouldn't stop it. I would take very long in dating but I would casually date regardless. I couldn't care less what my XW thought about it. However, this won't happen before I've found a better job.

I am different than you. If I keep hoping it, if I keep actively monitoring and using DB, I am not ever being able to detach. I'm a person who gets REALLY obsessed in stuff. My DB is to learn overall to be a better person whether I interact with my XW or a stranger.

What I'm trying to say is that I can see a positive future and my future is not at all dependant on whether I'm with her or not. My life isn't worse or better, it's different. I've learned a lot so I have much more to offer the next time.

[lcause]

I'm getting really annoyed by XW and OM. D is crying she needed to go again to her grandparents to stay overnight. When we were together, D could never go when she asked or when I proposed a date night for us (they already have too much stress). Now suddenly it's ok to drop D there every weekend she's supposed to be with XW. Apparently they are less stressed now even though I know for a fact they are not.

I'M SO DONE with this. I'm officially done trying to save this. DONE to the point of marching there and yelling to her face how sh1tty mother she is. I'm going to make my kids so happy that they will always say that dad is so much better or that they want to be with me. I'm going to be more happy definitely this way because it seems my XW has totally lost it. She does not deserve me.

[lcause]

D told me mom never plays with her and is always angry. She literally is always on her phone. D is really bored when she's with her.

Imagine, XW had the NERVE to tell me to always put kids first. What the actual f@/%?

[25yearsmlc]

I'm getting really annoyed by XW and OM. D is crying she needed to go again to her grandparents to stay overnight. When we were together, D could never go when she asked or when I proposed a date night for us (they already have too much stress). Now suddenly it's ok to drop D there every weekend she's supposed to be with XW. Apparently they are less stressed now even though I know for a fact they are not.

Suggest you take the kids when your w is not going to be able to be around. Do NOT point fingers at this stage. Your goal is to get the most time with the kids, right? It'll be an indirect way to show, via action that you are more involved and that she is not.

No need to highlight it. DO the increased parenting and let the gap be revealed.


I'M SO DONE with this. I'm officially done trying to save this. DONE to the point of marching there and yelling to her face how sh1tty mother she is.


needless to say (right?) this^^ is tempting but not helpful.

I'm going to make my kids so happy that they will always say that dad is so much better or that they want to be with me.




I'm going to be more happy definitely this way because it seems my XW has totally lost it. She does not deserve me.

well okay

[lcause]

Doing assisted hand stands till exhaustion is a pretty good way to relax and vent the anger. Just a side note

I should be reframing my anger instead. Venting or suppressing are worse methods.

Of course I'm not going to do that 25. But I'm literally done. This was it. Any second thoughts vanished at the same second my D video called and said she's again there against her will.

I'm reframing this that my XW is in a fog/experiencing a sauce of hormones or neurotransmitters and that she'll eventually wake up.

[Maika]

Isn't reframing your anger, the way you've described it, going down a tunnel of denial and speculation? I feel that this is not any better than suppression. I am genuinely asking.

Isn't venting and processing it a much more healthier approach?