24 Mths in..I gotta whole lot of living to do now

[OwnIt]

Irish, I could have written this about my H.

On Wednesday he texted my kids and said I'd like to see you this afternoon. They did not respond per usual so he bullied them via text until my daughter said they had plans. He said how was I supposed to know that when no one tells me anything. She said why don't you think about why we don't want to respond to your texts. He said you need to focus on the future and stop bringing up the past. Then he stopped communicating with them until Saturday and left in a huff from a planned outing with my S when he showed up 1/2 hour early and we had left the house for a showing. He never did see my D before she left for college.

In October when I told him that he was abandoning his children and destroying his relationship with them and he probably wouldn't hear from them until they were adults he said that was fine, he could wait until they were free of my noxious influence.

They don't mean these things. They don't remember what they say. She will come around again. I know it hurts on behalf of your girls, but she is sick. No mother in her right mind would behave this way.

I'm sorry you had to be reminded of what this does to them.

[mirage]

Irish,

I don't post much about my infrequent communications with my EXW. Suffice to say 8 yrs give or take post BD she still can't deal with things in a mature way. Still has to throw her hurt into every conversation. I very rarely respond, only if it's about the adult kids and then most of time it's the same thing.

I know my oldest and youngest, now adults have said to her "If your going to talk bad about Dad just stop, we will not listen, we know who and what he stands for". Until she does the work this is what your going to get.

You have chosen your path in this and have lived it well. I think you embody what it means to really grow up and live as a mature, strong responsible adult. It's really we who learn the lessons and live what I call a more considered life and it makes all the difference in the world. Life is a wonderful thing, you just need the right perspective.

Hang in there. I truly respect the journey you are living.

Mirage

[peacetoday]

Irish,

You did your best , now you know..she is not ready, her MLC is not complete

I think the only way they can face themselves is if they go full circle through the crises and find some help along the way
but sadly, I believe many MLCers get stuck and can't complete their journey

they get trapped in addiction which seems to have similar effects as MLC

breaking addictions are very difficult on their own , and add a real crises to it and you've got a major mental issue

we have no control on their ability to heal or get through it

WE help them with our acceptance and forgiveness (which you tried to give her)
but she is incapable of living in reality..so she lives in denial

its her only way for her to survive and she needs it

I know you want the girls to have their mother as she was but the door has closed and maybe its best to leave it alone

I believe strongly that if the MLCER ever gets through it, really get to the other side and clean themselves up
nothing will stop them from contacting us and their kids
and
if they continue in in addictions and MLC,,nothing can help the reconnection

You did well
if you can put closure on this and know your girls are ok and will be fine
trust Gods plan
let her go

[Brubeck]

Irish,

You are a bigger, better man than me. You've been reaching out time and time again, in spite of her dismissive responses and accusatory statements. She's messed up - big time. She hasn't figured her way out of MLC yet, so she sure isn't ready to do the work necessary to reconcile with her daughters. I truly wouldn't have bothered this much myself. The patience and persistence you've shown is amazing.

I don't think there was anything wrong with your conditions for meeting up or the tone / language in which you suggested it. She's clearly not on steady ground, and you don't want to leave your daughters alone with her. Understandable. She may have rejected the offer as your presence would have been 'controlling' to her.

Maybe you never mentioned it before, but I didn't know about the NEVER AGAIN tattoo. I don't know what that means for her, but it sounds like real MLC crazy. My W's MLC tattoo was just a monochrome flower above her ankle.

Irish, I don't think its a good idea if we meet. All 3 of you are stuck in the past and haven't moved on yet. They should of forgot about it all and want to see me. It must be you holding them back. Also, I don't need you running this. I can manage the girls alone. I am their mother. Tell them to contact me. I am done talking to you.

This email has all the ingredients of the MLC emotional cocktail. A splash of avoidance, sadness, anger with plenty of projection and denial. Still deep, deep in the tunnel...

Spoil yourself, damn it. You're a great dad doing it alone. You've earned it.

[rd500]

Hi Irish, i dont think your surprised at the outcome and i think the mlc is still running its course.

Your being a great dad and an amazing role model for your Ds, if you dont mind me throwing in my pennies worth i just want to say i in a similer position to you and i know how much the kids look to you for stability and guidance, your giving them that and more.

Exw is lost and is missing her childrens lives. Youve tried but exw sees your efforts as controlling or anti her so time to leave it be. Exw will move heaven and earth to be with the girls IF she recovers from MLC.

Live your life , tell us how things with the new lady are progressing, my sons have meet my new lady but im very cautious about the girls meeting her because they are young and need to be protected. Im only in the R for 4 months so its early days.

Take care , Rd

[Gordie]

Irish,

I agree with everyone. You did your best. Your w is not ready. It's her loss, her giant loss. I don't understand the parents who abandon their children.

[25yearsmlc]

Irish

sorry about your situation with the AWOL W...

Similarly, my h has not seen our kids in a year, sent a text and check after Christmas, ignored birthdays and cut off college tuition for our youngest. There's more but I think you get the point. It truly surprises and baffles me. I would never have imagined him doing this.

So, Nope, I don't get it. A million theories are offered, but i tend to think that it'll get less likely they reconcile with the more time that passes.

So much wreckage that the "AWOL parent" will see too high a mountain to climb, and just give up. And my kids don't seem to want to reach out to him anytime soon. They are hurt.

I know I would never remove myself from them. But then, I have the problem of projecting my own values onto my h, and that has kept me stuck longer than anything else.

We all tend to do that for awhile. We assume we know how they must feel b/c WE would feel that way in the situation.

But we are not them and they are not us. I found a site that helps people who are not aiming at reconciliation. (Chump lady) It says something along the lines of "trust that they $uck". As harsh/funny as that sounds, the point is valid.

Keep your expectations very very low.

Again, sorry you are here. Your ex wife's loss is bigger than she can know, literally.
Because she does not know, what she does not know.

I remind myself sometimes that it's not about what our WAS lose, it's about our own gain.

We are our children's rock. That matters maybe more than anything else we will do in life.

Jackie Kennedy once said that raising her children to be close to each other was her "Greatest achievement...without feeling good as a parent, nothing else I do could matter much."

Amen

[Irish M]

The guilt is eating at her and she can't face you or the girls. She can't face the consequences of her actions and she doesn't want them to see her the way she is now. The person living in the past is her.

You are so right Job, I know its avoid or die.. her loss. I am glad I tried. No regrets. It's who I am.

I know she's ill, but sometimes she makes me so angry I could spit nails.

Bttfly xxx this made me laugh so much.
Yes Ewww is lost still and if she wasn't it would be her breaking down the walls to see her kids.

You handled yourself well. You can have a clean conscience, you tried. She's clearly just too messed up to deal with the guilt. She's clearly not well, but there's nothing within your power that can change that right now. Just get back to your life.

hi KMl :-)
I did it because I need to give my girls every chance I can to have normalcy. My conscience has been clean since day 1. If this was for me I would of said pass. The girls needed to see this as well. It helps them move on.

They don't mean these things. They don't remember what they say. She will come around again. I know it hurts on behalf of your girls, but she is sick. No mother in her right mind would behave this way.

I'm sorry you had to be reminded of what this does to them.

Hi Own it,
Your H and my XW must be made from the same DNA. crazy how they think. Yes ill.. i know. Sometimes I find it hard to believe that they don't remember what they say. My XW seems to stand her ground. Their brains just don't work the same.

Sorry for your kids to have to live with this. They are the true victims.

I don't post much about my infrequent communications with my EXW. Suffice to say 8 yrs give or take post BD she still can't deal with things in a mature way.

Hi Mirage
Sad to hear that. I know there is no real time line on when MLC ends. No one should expect it to ends because even if it does that person will not be the same. They would have taken on all that they lived through during the crisis and it will now be part of them. I ask myself often.. would I date her as such a person? Would I introduce her to my children and family?. answer is always no.

you did well, your adult children answer well putting their mom in place. They know who you are and what you did to support them. I want the same from mine. You are a class act to follow.

I think the only way they can face themselves is if they go full circle through the crises and find some help along the way
but sadly, I believe many MLCers get stuck and can't complete their journey

they get trapped in addiction which seems to have similar effects as MLC

breaking addictions are very difficult on their own , and add a real crises to it and you've got a major mental issue

Hi Peace :-) Yes, facing themselves is the biggest challenge. It takes a certain person to wake up one day and realize they trashed so many loved ones and then have the courage and strength to fix it. It's a lot of work for the MLCr. We know our spouses and we know if they have this strength in them or not. Mine doesn't. I always had to initiate talks if we had an argument.s She would rather go to bed and wake up with a smile, new day and forget about the yesterday. In knowing this. If my girls have any chance it will be wither me or them that initiates it. In the end it will be her to decide what she wants to do with that open door. She's not ready.

Maybe you never mentioned it before, but I didn't know about the NEVER AGAIN tattoo. I don't know what that means for her, but it sounds like real MLC crazy. My W's MLC tattoo was just a monochrome flower above her ankle.

Hi Brubeck
well, shortly after her disappearance with OM. I finally see her in mediation, not sure if she saw me because she was clearly avoiding any eye contact. Her arm had the Edgar Allen Poe phrase of the Raven poem, if you can call it that. NEVERMORE in bold black letters covering her entire forearm. Along side a black raven. The poem talks about him never seeing Loenore his lost love again and never find happiness. The Raven represents madness that will nevermore leave.

At the same time she started posting messages on Facebook.. saying things like " I hate when the voices in my head go quiet... i never know what those f**ckers are up to"
also "finally found my freedom and I'm living my dream, those who want to wait can wait.. anyone else can go F themselves."

This email has all the ingredients of the MLC emotional cocktail. A splash of avoidance, sadness, anger with plenty of projection and denial. Still deep, deep in the tunnel...

yup.. I think she dug a new depth in the MLC tunnel.. the current one wasn't dark enough.

Live your life , tell us how things with the new lady are progressing, my sons have meet my new lady but im very cautious about the girls meeting her because they are young and need to be protected. Im only in the R for 4 months so its early days.

Hi Rd.
yes life is moving on. I too it slow introducing my girlfriend to the girls. I actually talked about her more and more until they got intrigued and wanted to meet her. Their decision, I didn't force it on them. In the beginning I always kept it light and we did small activities. They like her and see that I am happy.

They said as long as she isn't moving in next week, doesn't try to be their mom and doesn't smoke cigarettes or pot like XW's loser OM.
Also she must respect them and me.. they are happy. She has a boy 11 years old. Great kid. Also gets along with the girls.

It took months before they met her. I even held her off from meeting my parents. We live a weird life with all this MLC. Not everyone is going to understand what happened, what we deal with and have the patience to be by our sides and support us through all the echoes and drama it may bring in the months or years to come. So far so good with her.

Happy to hear you are taking it slow too.

Your w is not ready. It's her loss, her giant loss. I don't understand the parents who abandon their children.

Hi Gordie

Yes it is.. all on her. I know what you mean. I've heard about dead beat dads.. but mothers is new to me until I came here. Its crazy to even imagine doing this sort of thing. I feel bad sometimes when i travel for work, leaving them alone or at my parents.

Also to think back 3 years. If someone said my wife and loving mother would leave the kids and not see them for 2 years, i'd say they were nuts.

Similarly, my h has not seen our kids in a year, sent a text and check after Christmas, ignored birthdays and cut off college tuition for our youngest. There's more but I think you get the point. It truly surprises and baffles me. I would never have imagined him doing this.

So, Nope, I don't get it. A million theories are offered, but i tend to think that it'll get less likely they reconcile with the more time that passes.

So much wreckage that the "AWOL parent" will see too high a mountain to climb, and just give up. And my kids don't seem to want to reach out to him anytime soon. They are hurt.

Hi 25yrs

I truly hope we get some reconciliation between a MLCr and their kids. I actually still have hope for her.

As I said above. When the time is right she will need help with this, if I'm still open to helping her then good. It was not in her nature to reach out even prior to MLC. She never learnt that skill. If she picks it up great but I can't expect her to do that.

If one day my door to help her connect with the girls is completely closed then she must seek help elsewhere. Time will tell and so will her actions.

My only job here this week was to see if she was ready. Clearly she is not otherwise she would of stepped in the door and done something positive for the girls.


Great plans upon us as it is labor day weekend here in Canada. So, a 3 day trip to the states to enjoy some R&R with the girls and my parents. I wish there was something we could do with the exchange rate though... its not cheap.

Hope you all have a great weekend.
Especially the birthday girl Bttrfly.

[AndrewP]

I truly hope we get some reconciliation between a MLCr and their kids. I actually still have hope for her.

As I said above. When the time is right she will need help with this, if I'm still open to helping her then good. It was not in her nature to reach out even prior to MLC. She never learnt that skill. If she picks it up great but I can't expect her to do that.

If one day my door to help her connect with the girls is completely closed then she must seek help elsewhere. Time will tell and so will her actions.

Hey there Irish. Just killing time on a Friday of a long weekend. I've not been keeping up on your story too much but swing by from time to time kind of like that neighbour you rarely see but you trust to keep an eye on your cat.

I think we are in very different places with this. In my case both of my kids are grown - not quite to that "30" that you were mentioning to your X but still fully adult.

I've been working on paying no mind to my X's communications with the kids although I do know that she does communicate with them. No idea how often or context.

You are perhaps the better man because you are keeping a bit of an eye on your X and hoping that she journeys through and out of MLC and reconciles with at least your kids. I hope you've taken that completely off the table for yourself now that you have a NG in the picture.

Oh - and when this all started she also got the obligatory tattoo. Perhaps it's a mail-order kit for people who dive off to play with the fairies.

What really struck me though and perhaps it was included in the kit was this idea that the kids need to accept her and her choices and perhaps still be the kids that were left behind. Also in my case my STBX hasn't seen our daughter since 2015 but she has seen S23 from time to time but not very often especially considering that she lives 5 minutes away.

I saw this clearly during our collaborative / mediation meeting last week where she still had the anger and attitude that our son should be very responsive to her texts and pay attention to her. Not a darned thing about his struggles or her trying to help him. It was "me me me". It sounds like your X is stuck in the same sort of place.

Will she ever change? In her case I doubt it but must honestly give the answer of "I don't know". I don't see any path that gets her a closer relationship with the kids - only one that leads progressively farther away. In your case you are still hoping it seems for her to find her way at least back to the girls.

My un-called for suggestion is to remove the idea from your mind. Your girls seem like very wonderful and very aware young ladies. Whatever will play out will play out between them and their mother if it ever does. I was actually thinking myself this morning that when I finally end up divorced that I want to have nothing in common with the woman with whom I once felt that I had so much in common with. Not even the kids. The kids have a strand of my DNA and a strand of her's. The commonality if any is their's and their's alone. Not mine.

I hope you have a great weekend with your girls! Mine will be quiet I expect but that's rather how I like it.

[OwnIt]

Ah Irish, the poem and tattoo is too much. Mine posted stuff on FB just before hot and heavy with OW2 about Odysseus' desire to return home to his wife and kid. Just part of the crazy soup. Instead he took up with a single mom that OW1 told me he'd been talking about for a year. Ah the joys of being with a narcissistic MLCer. At least you are divorced from yours. That has proven very difficult for me.