Gordie, you have no obligation to commit to being friendly nor being friends. I don't see any harm in saying you don't know if it's possible. But definitely don't add..."but I will try". You owe her no effort nor explanations.I am sure that sounds harsh after the length of time you are married, but I think it is best for you and in the long run best for dbing.
As for the ring, only you can decide your timing. But your suggested timing seems good to me. I am not sure I like the idea of sbj to keep wearing it on a chain. That's not letting go. I personally like my ring, without its M associations. When I am done I will take it off because of those associations and it being a sign of my commitment. Maybe one day I would wear it on the other hand, or get a new one that I like.
Lastly get out of your W's head. You have no idea what is truly going on in her mind. I have lived in an unhappy M over five years now. It's not appealing to me to say it mildly. There are times I have wanted this to end that the how was secondary. I can relate to the WAS and I can assure you that those feelings they want to escape are powerful. Your W has been on the fence for a while now. She did attempt newness with you. But now those feelings she cannot handle are in the driving seat. I bet she does feel better than she has in years. A weight/strain has been lifted. She feels free. But she's not driving and sooner or later she will realise the destination isn't what she thought.
Don't give up hope but don't hold onto it either. This can turn around. You have a good connection with W which is an important fracture in your favour.JJust believe that one day things could turn around. You have read the stories. It does happen. But you cannot wait for it to happen. Move forward.GAL. and fight a good fight. I read recently there are no winners in D, everyone loses. Just fight for a fair settlement that helps you and the kids live correctly afterwards.
Best wishes
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
I guess I have 2 more thoughts to share: 1- the ring: personal decision. I kept mine on for a very long time. Took it off when I felt like it was the right time but kept on my engagement ring and a ring we had made to celebrate our son's birth for another good while. I finally took all of the off because I felt I was in denial about the reality of my situation- what I mean is when it hurt more to have them on rather than off, I removed them. I still have them but I can't wear them. There are jewelers who let divorced people melt their rings down as part of a cathartic process in case you are interest.
2- can you still be friends. Hmm. I guess I'd ask why would you want to? Friends treat each other with kindness and respect, at least that's how my friends treat me. This doesn't mean you cannot be civil but that smacks of STBXW cake eating if you ask me.
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Sorry again you are going through this. I don't have a lot to offer that hasn't been said but as I said before it's the next step in whatever may come. And as others have said, be sure you take care of yourself. Something else that helped me was realizing I wasn't divorcing the wife/friend/mother I knew but a stranger.
I like what bttrfly said about the ring. I also took mine off when it hurt more to have it on.
As far as the friend thing goes it's hard and I'm still struggling with it all. Lots of friend zone etc. talk yet I was told most that reconcile are friends first. I'm lost when it comes to this. I really struggle with it. I guess we will eventually find what works for each of us but until then act towards her in a way so that I don't have any regrets.
I would definitely look into making sure you are financially secure post D, FIRST AND FOREMOST! You cannot take care of your kids if you are running on fumes, financially, emotionally, spiritually. Believe me when I tell you this.
G: thanks. I know I will be tempted to just give her everything she wants. This will be hard for me, to fight for what is fair and equitable.
B: So will you guys sell the house? Make sure there is something that's fair to you in that D agreement you don't want, my friend. Take care of Team Gordie!!!!
G: yeah, I honestly hope my lawyer can be the bad guy for me but it needed, I will have to insist on what is right. I hope my stbxw is reasonable bu I guess I can't expect her to be.
B: She's on a pink cloud. Feel your feelings, walk through the fire. We're here for you, don't stuff it. Focus on your GAL. Keep being a gentleman.
G: yes, she is in fantasy land and there's no place for G there. I gotta accept that an move on. Trying my best to yes feel those feelings and not stuff them. Get it out at the gym and elswhere not at home. Still praying.
B: My mantra was and is that when my son is an adult I want him to look back on how I handled this and say that I took the high road, that I did the best for him and was civilized and graceful under pressure. I'm not always meeting my own strict expectations on that front but I make the attempt. Think about how you want your kids to view you post D and act accordingly. How old are your children?
G: I think about this too and it keeps those ugly temptations in check. Through this whole thing I have never yelled at stbxw though God knows I have wanted to do so. Kids range from elementary through high school so will have to deal with the younger ones differently than the older ones.
B: i think you ought to follow the advice of your DB coach, are you also in IC? Maybe there is a local grief/divorce group you could join?
G: I was in IC previously am not currently. Maybe that or a support group would be helpful at this time. What did you do/are you doing?
B: I'm sorry you are dealing with this. I really hoped she'd ... do something different. I was going to say, "Snap out of it" but I think MLCr's have to go all the way through the tunnel, crash and burn before they can re-group - if ever they manage to do so. Maybe the pink cloud is because they are finally taking an action after the paralysis of depression, even though that action is absolute destruction of all they held near and dear. It's tempting to say that cloud will pass. It may, it may not, but the brutal truth is her moods, feelings, pink cloud or depths of depression are not your concern any longer.
G: yes, this has been hard for me to accept. I tell you I am an expert in denial. But in just the past few days, I do feel things slowly changing inside of me. The temptation to talk and share...it's just not been there...at all. I haven't been doing this for a while, but now the feelings match the actions. I guess this is what they mean by taking it until you make it and if you are trying to detach, you aren't there yet.
B: You need all your energy for yourself and your kids and also for the others in your family and circle of friends who will be affected by this. Your wife sounds like someone who believes nothing will change, really.
G: wow, yes and it's been had for me to accept this but a needy person in my life came to me in the past week and I had to push them away. I have never said this in my life. I told them that I'm sorry but I am in too much pain to help you right now. I have to take care of me.
B: Boy will she get the shock of her life that her post D world will not match her vision of it! Again, that is not your problem - your job now is financial security for yourself and kids, and since she wants the D so much, maybe you can negotiate a better financial situation for yourself if it's uncontested. Don't know just throwing it out there. Glad you hired the best lawyer in town.
G: well, that would be a pleasant surprise but I'm expecting the opposite.
B: I'm going to say something to you that my brother from another mother said to me about the time that it became absolutely clear exh wasn't going to change his mind: I know this isn't something you wanted, but there may come a day in the future when you will say that your STBXW has done you a favor. I thought he was nuts when he said that to me. Guess what, Sunday I reminded him of that conversation and said, "You were right, just wanted you to know." That may happen for you too. Wishing you peace my friend. You are a good man and do not deserve this. xoxoxo
G: thank you for sharing that story and that you now embrace that. Wow. Those words you do no deserve this. It's what one of my best friends tells me every time we talk. Thank you.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
R: you have no obligation to commit to being friendly nor being friends. I don't see any harm in saying you don't know if it's possible. But definitely don't add..."but I will try". You owe her no effort nor explanations.I am sure that sounds harsh after the length of time you are married, but I think it is best for you and in the long run best for
G: thanks. One of the things I am trying to work on myself is not offering explanations for everything I do. This is deeply ingrained in me and it is liberating not to do so!
R: As for the ring, only you can decide your timing. But your suggested timing seems good to me. I am not sure I like the idea of sbj to keep wearing it on a chain. That's not letting go. I personally like my ring, without its M associations. When I am done I will take it off because of those associations and it being a sign of my commitment. Maybe one day I would wear it on the other hand, or get a new one that I like.
G: I thought about that. Ring on a chain isn't for me either. I'll take it off and put it away somewhere. I hadn't considered putting it on the other hand but think I just want it out of sight for a while.
R: Lastly get out of your W's head. You have no idea what is truly going on in her mind. I have lived in an unhappy M over five years now. It's not appealing to me to say it mildly. There are times I have wanted this to end that the how was secondary. I can relate to the WAS and I can assure you that those feelings they want to escape are powerful. Your W has been on the fence for a while now. She did attempt newness with you. But now those feelings she cannot handle are in the driving seat. I bet she does feel better than she has in years. A weight/strain has been lifted. She feels free. But she's not driving and sooner or later she will realise the destination isn't what she thought.
G: thanks for the 2x4. You are absolutely right. I am a terrible mind reader and it does nothing but exhaust me. Stop!
R: Don't give up hope but don't hold onto it either. This can turn around. You have a good connection with W which is an important fracture in your favour.JJust believe that one day things could turn around. You have read the stories. It does happen. But you cannot wait for it to happen. Move forward.GAL. and fight a good fight. I read recently there are no winners in D, everyone loses. Just fight for a fair settlement that helps you and the kids live correctly afterwards.
G: you are right, again. In my heart, I still do hope for some R a the court house or many years down the road, but no, I can't wait for it to happen. My life needs to go on now without stbxw. It's not what I wanted, but it is. Time to make an awesome Plan B, right?
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Kyh: Sorry again you are going through this. I don't have a lot to offer that hasn't been said but as I said before it's the next step in whatever may come.
G: you have a lot to offer! I learn from your thread because your x w seems so needy post d and I learn from your decision making in how to deal with that.
K: And as others have said, be sure you take care of yourself. Something else that helped me was realizing I wasn't divorcing the wife/friend/mother I knew but a stranger.
G: yes, I've been in denial about this too. I wouldn't say she's a stranger but she's definitely changed a lot. The things she does now...sometimes I think about what her old self would at about her new self given how dramatic the change has been. And her new self has nothing but trash talk of her old self.
K: I like what bttrfly said about the ring. I also took mine off when it hurt more to have it on.
G: what did you do with it?
K: As far as the friend thing goes it's hard and I'm still struggling with it all. Lots of friend zone etc. talk yet I was told most that reconcile are friends first. I'm lost when it comes to this. I really struggle with it. I guess we will eventually find what works for each of us but until then act towards her in a way so that I don't have any regrets.
G: I know you struggle with this too which is why I value your opinion so highly. I have flip flopped so many tims in my head that even my I don't know is liberating to me. I don't need to make any definitive decisions today and that's all I've got right now.
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
Kyh: Sorry again you are going through this. I don't have a lot to offer that hasn't been said but as I said before it's the next step in whatever may come.
G: you have a lot to offer! I learn from your thread because your x w seems so needy post d and I learn from your decision making in how to deal with that.
K: And as others have said, be sure you take care of yourself. Something else that helped me was realizing I wasn't divorcing the wife/friend/mother I knew but a stranger.
G: yes, I've been in denial about this too. I wouldn't say she's a stranger but she's definitely changed a lot. The things she does now...sometimes I think about what her old self would at about her new self given how dramatic the change has been. And her new self has nothing but trash talk of her old self.
K: I like what bttrfly said about the ring. I also took mine off when it hurt more to have it on.
G: what did you do with it?
K: As far as the friend thing goes it's hard and I'm still struggling with it all. Lots of friend zone etc. talk yet I was told most that reconcile are friends first. I'm lost when it comes to this. I really struggle with it. I guess we will eventually find what works for each of us but until then act towards her in a way so that I don't have any regrets.
G: I know you struggle with this too which is why I value your opinion so highly. I have flip flopped so many tims in my head that even my I don't know is liberating to me. I don't need to make any definitive decisions today and that's all I've got right now.
Hi Gordie,
My ring went into a cup holder in my car and I haven't thought about it too much after getter by used to not having it on. Not that I don't care, I was just driving when I took it off and it's a good hiding spot in my car. I know it's very symbolic but for me the thought about not having it faded after a few weeks.
I'm glad my posts help you. I wish I had better advice with the friend topic. Sometimes I can be a friend and sometimes I think I can't but still manage to. There are times when I go on autopilot dealing w xw and others that I just want her to leave. I'm probably just being friendly because wouldn't say we are friends which is really sad. actually, rereading that, I've probably been a better friend to her than she will ever know.
It's difficult, I don't want to play into her fantasy about being friends but I don't want to play into her fantasy of being a monster. I guess maybe it comes back to being a person they're a fool to leave and leaving them to spin.
1. Settlement agreement is long with lots of issues. I find it difficult to edit and can only do a few pages at a time. It'll take longer to get through than I anticipated and am sure there will be lots of back and forth via lawyers.
2. After the latest b d, I stopped initiating communication with stbxw. For a while she was then reaching out to me. Now neither of us is initiating and we barely speak. That's sad but am resisting the temptation to pursue. Is that wrong?
3. Feeling like I can't be friends right now. Spending time with stbxw is just stressful right now. She is out again tonight for another all nighter. I don't ask her where she is going and with whom. It's probably better that I don't know.
4. GAL. I re started a hobby that I gave up in M because stbxw wasn't interested in it and it takes a lot of time but now I have a lot of time by myself. I'm looking forward to re engaging. It's been years.
5. PMA has been a struggle for me as I am quite down. My baby step today was that I was going to be super upbeat when I came home from work. Stbxw wasn't home so it was just a show for my kids and that was awesome.
6. I'm feeling like that song...that my stbxw is somebody that I used to know... I do get lonely at times and then I try to get busy with something or someone else. I honestly do miss her.
Enjoy your weekend!
Gordie 40s W 40s M20+ kids 2016 BD W fantasy affair w OM1 I do everything wrong 2017 I start to DB W says TLTL files for D PA w OM2 2018 I do LRT W drops filing and OM2 situation slowly improving
what did i do ... came here, IC, stuck close with my friends - a small, tight circle. walked miles and miles and miles. swam miles and miles and miles. focused on gratitude when I could focus on anything other than this. grieved. prayed. grieved some more. prayed even more. worked with a DB coach. I have a strong shamanic journeying practice that has only gotten stronger through this. same with meditation. somewhere in there I think I started to figure out who I am, just me. not exh's wife, or son's mother. just me. then i became curious about this person - me, without the partnership and child. who is she? what does she like? what does she like to do?
I remember going on my one date for coffee and the guy asked, "so what do you like to do?"
I had no idea. Sobering moment. I really had to think about what I personally like to do vs what I actually spent years doing with exh and son.
Turning point. Decided it was time to figure that out. Alone.
It's 18 months later: I like photography. I love my volunteer work with animals. I love to sing. I like to study languages. I love technology, to a point. I enjoy live music - not every week, but more than once a decade.
that's a start.
I resisted joining an in person divorce group. I didn't want to go because I felt like it was admitting that the divorce would happen, that there was no hope left of saving my marriage. Then once it was clear that the divorce was going to happen, I still resisted the group because I was concerned about some people perhaps seeing it as a pick up place. Instead I filled my life with work, time with son or friends and family and I think really more grieving, praying and getting to know who I am now.
I did go to the local group, twice. It was helpful. Nice people. But I did not join and I haven't been in about a month. I know it's there should I need it and I'm grateful but do not feel the need to go there right now.
I also consciously challenged myself to do things that I was afraid to do. Ex. sing in public in a group. Sing in public on a stage in front of strangers as a solo performer. Did both before the end of 2016, which had been my goal.
My point is, now in the midst of the ashes and devastation, you have an unlooked-for and precious opportunity: to find out who YOU are and to be able to create who you will be post-apocalypse/D.
This is why it is so crucial to dig as deep as necessary to take care of yourself financially in this mess. You will have a life post D. I know it doesn't feel like it right now, but I promise you - that life will be yours and will be worth living. Make sure your resources are there so you CAN live your life to the fullest in a meaningful way. Of course you will take care of your children. Of course you will give a fair settlement to your stbxw. Make sure you leave something for Gordie and Gordie's new life. You did not ask for this, you did not deserve this and you should not be made to support this for the rest of your life at your personal expense, spiritually, physically, emotionally, monetarily.
Advocating for what's fair doesn't have to get ugly. Advocating for yourself is essential. You cannot be there for your children if you aren't there for yourself first. I know you've spent years taking care of your family and your wife. She is now going to have to realize that the flip side of being able to go out all night is also having to take care of herself. She will not get the perks of being your wife without the responsibilities. Each state is different in how they handle D. Find out what your state's laws are. Find out how you can have a comfortable life for yourself post D while meeting your financial responsibilities to the kids. Let the lawyer do the dirty work, if necessary, or mediate if possible. Keep your legal fees as manageable as possible.
Remember that everybody gets something but nobody gets everything. Equitable. Fair. Reasonable. Civilized. Try to let go in as loving a way as possible while practicing fierce compassion. Fierce compassion holds the other in a compassionate place - after all, they are going through a MLC - while also holding a fierce boundary of what's acceptable. Practice loving kindness always. Look up loving kindness meditation. Practice it if it resonates with you. It's helped me.
Longish answer. Sorry. Hope it helps. xoxoxo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
SBJ: I'm content with who I am and trying to improve myself daily. I refuse to be defined by my W leaving. I know who I am in Christ and I am confident that He will guide me where He wants me. I just need to continue growing.
G: will I continue to stand since I don't believe in D?
SBJ: I think at this point we need to evaluate what standing means to each of us. I truly believe that the woman I was married to is worth waiting for, but the question is...is she still in there? I also truly love my W...unconditionally. I do want her to be happy, but obviously I am selfish and want the W of my youth to return. My thoughts are that I want to continue growing and improving myself to the point that I'm simply happy being a son, a brother, and most importantly a father of 3 beautiful kids. If one day she opens her eyes I will have to really did deep and see if that is the best for us.
I believe that God hates D, but I also know that hew I'll guide us thru the storms of life if we simply ask him to and allow Him to work for us. Gordie, I know that you are in a totally Crappy position right now...been there and done that, but you must dig deep and grab ahold of your faith. That is what has and is carrying me. Find some strong men of faith that you can lean on that will raise you up in strength and prayer. God is good all the time...even when we are going thru the trials of life.
Me 49 W46 T25 M22 S22 D18 S13 W had EA Apr-Jul 2016 Dropped Bomb 7/9/16 ILYBINILWYA HER DIVORCE IS FINAL...8/18/17 Dropping the rope to SURVIVE & THRIVE!!!
