Limerence and My Situation 2

[AnotherStander]

I feel looking at various threads that the “climate” here is to more than likely prepare ourselves for lives WITHOUT our WS and look at the next chapter in our lives.

I think it would be more accurate to say that DB'ing is "think back about what your spouse was attracted to in the beginning, and become that person again". Strong, independent, self-sufficient. That doesn't mean prepare yourself for a life without your W, it just means become strong and independent again and you may very well attract her back.

If we were to look at the above list with a “beginners mind” what would it say? I don’t care about you, I’m not going to talk to you or help you in any way. Not very appealing and definitely not productive in building a relationship!

You have to remember that a WAS has a COMPLETELY different mindset than a potential girlfriend. What works during courting DOES NOT WORK with a WAS. You mentioned reading Sandi's posts, did you miss the part where she is constantly pointing out how the WAS wants absolutely NOTHING from the LBS? They don't want nurturing and emotional support from the LBS, it actually REPULSES them. During my snooping phase early on I ran across a message my W sent a friend in which she said her worst nightmare was that she might get sick and I would have to take care of her. She said the thought of that "horrified" her. Wow was that ever like a hard kick to the stomach, the woman I loved was "horrified" at the thought of me caring for her! For over a year she wanted NOTHING from me, she went out of her way to refuse any kind of help I offered. By detaching and not calling/ texting/ emailing you are giving her exactly what she wants, which is the whole point. By the way it wasn't until about 3 years post BD that my XW started sharing her feelings with me again and asking me for help with stuff.

If I were to want to start a new R the following would be true:

Agreed. In a NEW relationship.

Does the above list sound a lot like what the AP/LO offered the WS to get them to the point of leaving the M?

Yup.

What would happen if?
When your WS was to interact with you you did the following:
Listen to her and be her best friend, I mean no talk of the AP/LO or the A but talk like you did when you were first courting?
Be her safe place, let her know if she has problems about ANYTHING you are there to support her any way possible, you validate her, comfort her, be there for her.

I hope Sandi sees this and jumps in, but I think she will say that is the last thing your W wants from YOU right now. She did at one point, she felt she wasn't getting it, she tried for months or years to communicate that to you and felt you didn't listen, then she sought it elsewhere. So for her now, it's "too late" for that.

I think in a nutshell you're asking if you have a shot at being OM to the OM, and if so can you get there by "out-OM'ing" him, LOL! And who knows, maybe some day you could be that emotional pillar for her again but it's probably years down the road before she's open to that again.

[Maika]

Hey Mark!

I so feel your pain and confusion. I am a newbie and so I have no sage advice to give. What AS and others have said has a lot more experience behind it.

The only thing I can say is this. I have just recently really understood that I have to make all the changes ONLY for myself. Some stuff is easy to change - get a new wardrobe, look better, get active, etc. But, what is harder to work on is going through that self-critical process where you realize you fell short in the M. This is not to beat yourself up over and over again, but to critically understand your failings as a human being and just have some humility and mercy for yourself. Then look at those areas that you want to change to be a better human being, and work on those. Get IC or other help and don't try to do it all alone.

I have been a survivor in my life and I always felt that the world could dump and $hit all over me and I would take it, be resilient, and overcome it - all by myself. I know that it's not true because I am also just human and I need to reach out for help.

Once you truly get to the point mentally and emotionally about the purpose of needing to make changes - which is for your growth as a person - you stop worrying about if your W or H is noticing any of it. They most likely are, but you're not doing it for them so it doesn't matter.

And if they come back, then you deal with that. You don't know where you will be mentally and emotionally - but that's later so I wouldn't dwell on it.

Also, do what makes sense in your sitch and use the great advice here, DR/DB as helpful guidelines. What I am currently doing in my sitch for a few weeks is probably not what would be advised - but I am tweaking my approach to get some answers about W's behaviours, not to change my approach to get her back. I don't know if she will ever.

The comment about the WW/WAS mindset is extremely important and that's why the advice here seems counter-intuitive. But, it works and you have to figure out how you want to tweak it based on your sitch. But, don't do it to get her back. Do it for protecting yourself and improving yourself.

I got so caught up in every nitty-gritty thing with W - did i say that right? was i positive enough? how did i handle R talks? This can drive you up the wall and your focus is only on her, not you.

I had one very quick interaction with my W the other day and it was the first time since we got married where i didn't care how she reacted to what I said. And it was hugely liberating because I did it for myself and stayed true to myself.

You will pass the confusion stage as soon as you recognize that you're doing this for you, and only you.

[Parkema]

Thanks All,

If I may I’ll pick out certain comments chronologically and counter if you don’t mind.

Hi Doodler – “Unfortunately, most people who are new to the forum are often blindsided and so beset with fear that they often misinterpret the advice or they cherry pick the things they like and avoid the things they don't like.” I TOTALLY agree with you and think it’s human nature to do so, I personally find it hard to follow the practices relating to DR and the LRT BUT will continue to do these acts as I’m a novice to all this and understand that those on here who are seasoned must have seen success by dong them..?

“My brain was shouting, "NO WAY." What the coach was trying to do was to get me to do a 180 and show my wife that I was willing to move forward with the divorce (and by proxy move forward with my life). But, I was so full of fear that I felt like I had to continue delaying the divorce as long as possible. I should have been putting my effort into being happy and moving forward with my life. I thought I was DBing, but in reality I was clinging to my marriage for dear life.” I think this paragraph explains to a degree what I’m trying to convey, why should we NOT fight for our M against the AP/LO? What I get from the boards is ACCEPTANCE, I obviously understand that we can’t control their actions or change their mind-set but does that mean we should accept the inevitable? The practices in DR are based on experience and with that knowledge we are able to as you say cherry pick our strategies but again I see the goal setting and such for a MR where R is already being undertaken, problems are known and can be worked on due to us knowing what happened in the past to get us to that point.

In an ongoing A we are literally fighting to save our MR I’m not so sure the “primary” tactics are beneficial but again I’m no expert and will continue to do the DR’ing. Certain individuals on these boards would suggest that the WW as no interest in the LBS at all and are selfish and self-centred, again I agree and here I will use the DR techniques to work on myself as this has a couple of benefits that are well known here.

Hi SJ – good to hear from you. “I can understand what you are saying but you talk as though you are still in R with you WW and currently you are not, sorry if that sounds a bit harsh. What you are about with the new R is exactly where you want to get to with your WW right? But that will only be if/when SHE is ready.” Really hard to accept after so many years a WW can give up all of that history and re-write what the MR had. I will accept that I am STILL in a R with my WW but it is now totally different, what can be done to get them to look back at R the MR? How can this be escalated? Do we really feel that leaving them alone to enjoy their “fantasy” and allowing the guilt to dissipate by accepting their choice and MOVE ON is “solution orientated”?

“You admit there have been issues, you don't want old R back because that is what lead to where you are now.” Of course, I accept 50% of the blame for the decline in our MR and here I feel is where the DR literature and advice comes into its own.

“Going back to your questioning about the techniques I do believe they work if you and find what works for you and your sitch and are consistent. The fact that she mouthed sorry to you is something up until then all you had was an ice queen so what was different?” At this particular time she saw how much hurt was in me as she was taking my kids away from me for the longest period of time since both of them were born! I was slightly emotional (had a tear in my eyes) BUT imagine if there was a detachment where she would just be picking them up from outside my house, how could this emotion be conveyed to her if she’s not there to see it? Do we continue to convey a stance of acceptance of the A? Do we not show them that we don’t condone their actions? This one moment in time as you rightly state gave one the most positive responses I’ve had in 6-months!

Hi leahsue – “Here's what I think may be confusing you, also. You talk as though you are still in a R with your wife, which legally, you still are. But emotionally, for her, you are not. You are separated, she has left you for another man, and she is not thinking of you as her husband any longer.” I TOTALLY understand this, if you see the name of the original tread I’m well versed in the limerent affect and the phases WW go through. There obsessing of the AP/LO, the re-writing of the MR history to suit their way of accepting their wayward behaviour and justify their A. I also understand this can’t be maintained, disintegration is a law of nature it has to happen, what happens to this A over time? Do these WS maintain the fantasy that everything is going to be perfect or does reality kick in somewhere?
I’m all for allowing the WW have enough rope to hang herself and suffer the reality of her wayward actions whilst maintaining my own sanity by separating myself from their A, but the counter intuitiveness of not being there to show a better option when their A does go “south” just doesn’t ring true! Again don’t get me wrong I bow to your experience and continue to detach.
“She is not going to forget you. She not ever want to be your wife again. But your best chance of her wanting that, is to see she is losing you.” Here again I’m at a loss! Are we not saying that WW are not interested in their BS? Are the BS not the furthest from their minds and all there focus is on their AP/LO? What makes the forum think that WW having the threat of losing their BS is the best way of bringing them back if they’re not even interested… I just can’t justify this statement.
“But you're not there, and you can't control if she'll ever get to that place. Which is why you keep hearing GAL- it's good for you, etc.... you know all that, but honestly, it's the only sane things to do, especially at first, while you know in your heart all you're doing is waiting and hoping she'll leave OM and want you back.” AGREE I continue to GAL for me this is helping immensely with me keeping my mind off their A, I’m also not interested in what she thinks about all of this either.

“Then slowly, as your heart gets in line with GAL, you'll start to care less and less.” I feel this comes with time BUT I fight this! My whole view here is that I want my MR, I want my family to be whole (the nuclear family) I don’t want them to be just another statistic, I also don’t want to look back in time and say to myself “what if” I did this or that. BUT again this shows how IMHO the forum is preparing for the worst and accepting the inevitable. I am at war and it’s this mind-set I take with me.

Hi Rose888 – can I ask if you are piecing? I ask because something has worked for this to happen and it’s this information I’m obviously interested in. If you are was it the DR techniques that worked for you or a mixture of other things with these?

Hi Btrow – Yes! I agree with you TOTALLY, I’m not suggesting I’m here now waiting at the door for my WW to come back running in slow motion into my arms! I continue to work on me to be the best version of me I can but how does the forum see the benefits of this? In one respect I feel that members would suggest it allows for a higher percentage in gaining a new R, obvious as a worse you would not be as good would it! This again IMHO wallows in ACCEPTANCE of the MR coming to an end, I’m not willing to accept this.
I continue to detach, I continue to work on me, I continue to GAL as much as I possibly can and I NEVER pursue her EVER. I have boundaries and separating from my children due to her A is a massive statement of intent, I understand the aspects of losing respect for the BS by the WW due to usually his passiveness and is something I’m challenging myself to get better at – no more MNG.
I do worry about the cake eating aspect of the R but I feel the above statement shows that I still do DR and will continue, when she’s ready to talk then I will rely on a different approach.

I appreciate you rooting for me and the refreshing stance you view our predicaments.

AS – thanks as usual “You mentioned reading Sandi's posts, did you miss the part where she is constantly pointing out how the WAS wants absolutely NOTHING from the LBS? They don't want nurturing and emotional support from the LBS, it actually REPULSES them.” No not at all, I feel Sandi as a lot to offer all of us I’m NOT suggesting anything with my most recent post except the counter intuitiveness of the DR method. What I am suggesting is that we should not just accept the fact that the situation should be just forgotten about and allow the AP partners to have an easy life! Again I’m not pursuing her I’m too busy finding things to do its just when she comes to me then showing her that I am a safe place where she can have a place where she knows she can vent without being berated is beneficial to building up that friendship again. I in no way suggest we praise her course of action in fact this is a definite boundary, she starts to talk about the AP I simply tell her I understand her feelings towards him and end it there. If it continues I end the conversation and she leaves!

“I think in a nutshell you're asking if you have a shot at being OM to the OM, and if so can you get there by "out-OM'ing" him, LOL! And who knows, maybe someday you could be that emotional pillar for her again but it's probably years down the road before she's open to that again.” Absolutely but his method was successful was it not? Did my MR suffer due to a lack in emotional involvement? Yes. Did I leave her to manage the children and go to my man-cave when she started to “nag”? Definitely. Did this build up the resentment over the years that diluted the MR to a point where she decided to find comfort in another individual? What do you think…?
What I am suggesting IN MY SITUATION continuing to do these things won’t solve the issues in my MR, I need to demonstrate a person who can be more emotionally involved, be supportive and not go missing when she cries out for it but also not be so passive and be more capable of “shouting her down” when the need calls for it BUT I never pursue.

Hi Maika – “Once you truly get to the point mentally and emotionally about the purpose of needing to make changes - which is for your growth as a person - you stop worrying about if your W or H is noticing any of it. They most likely are, but you're not doing it for them so it doesn't matter.” I’m all for making myself better and looking at my inadequacies with my MR which I’m spending a lot of time on. I understand we do this for ourselves in the hope that “someone” appreciates the changes if not them then us! I also know this is great for gaining our own sanity.

“The comment about the WW/WAS mind-set is extremely important and that's why the advice here seems counter-intuitive. But, it works and you have to figure out how you want to tweak it based on your sitch. But, don't do it to get her back. Do it for protecting yourself and improving yourself.” It works based on what? I’m not knocking the board at all I base my “beliefs” on facts which is dare I say counter intuitive to the forum, the phases of limerence, the people don’t leave something for something worse. These statements are true if you research them I base my methods on a mixture of DR’ing and when the WS comes to interact with me the safe place, best friend approach with of course those definite boundaries where the A is NOT mentioned or the AP/LO.

Please all don’t get me wrong for MR’s that are in the process of R then I feel the DR books can help a great deal I’m just not so sure about an on-going A but WILL CONTINUE to carry out these practices and monitor the results.

Just my opinion and one defiantly in the minority.

Thanks all again.

Mark.

[Cadet]

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