Limerence and My Situation 2

[AnotherStander]

Being a profound Mr Nice Guy the disrespect demonstrated through these conversations was so obvious and knowing there was no way I could prevent this from happening I basically had to accept the fact.

NG or not you are correct in that there's really nothing you can do about it. Legally she's within her rights. Morally? No, not at all. All you can do is continue showing your boys what a great dad you are. I promise you, at their ages they are NOT HAPPY that W is flaunting OM in their faces. YOU are their dad and OM is an unwelcome interloper. Just continue to be an awesome dad to them and try not to concern yourself with the mess your W is making. If they should bring it up with you next time you see them just listen and validate.

[Parkema]

Thanks AS,

To be honest they're just getting on with it, we have a rule a bit like "Lord Voldemort" in the Harry Potter films he's someone that will never be mentioned in my "home".

I realised morels left her 8-months ago and by all accounts aren't returning any time soon.


Mark.

[Parkema]

Hello All,

Strange post today!

Last night I had a dream which basically opened my eyes a little about my situation, I was with my WW somewhere with my family and the atmosphere was not exactly friendly but not isolated between us either. I had no indication that the A had finished or that R was on the cards, as time went on I saw WW upset about something and as a typical MNG I went to see if I could comfort her.

She had in her hand a photo of one of our boys with an incredible hulk mask on (his favourite thing in the past) which I assumed and “felt” upset her possibly bringing her to her senses a little. The conversation then went the direction of me trying to reconcile our MR with talk of the past and how we could R, I woke up from this dream suddenly at the point where she looked into my eyes and said “I’m sorry Mark I won’t be leaving AP/LO” and that I was wasting my time trying to force the issue.

Actually this was a major wake-up call for me and allowed me to feel what it would be like to approach my WW too soon or to push for R quicker if at all.

This really did hit me hard and I hope will serve me well going into the future.

Like I said a weird post but useful…

Mark.

[SJW]

Morning Mark

That's really strange but I'm glad it was positive for you. I can't imagine how you must feel with them being on holiday with OM, mine are only at his Mum's with him and I can't bare it.

Have a good day
SJ

[Parkema]

Hello All,

I was wondering the forums views on when having any interaction with their relevant WS the best way to approach the situation, I have been on these boards now for a while and am getting conflicting approaches!

DR would suggest that we remain upbeat towards WS and show a person who is working towards looking inwards at themselves to be a better version not necessarily for our WS BUT for ourselves. The premise here is that doing this will IMHO set us up for the WORST not our ultimate goal of R the MR.
I feel looking at various threads that the “climate” here is to more than likely prepare ourselves for lives WITHOUT our WS and look at the next chapter in our lives.

Detaching and the LRT is SO counter intuitive that I find it hard to believe that this approach is successful at all, the actual DR book has very little on the subject of A’s (chapter 10) it again offers very little with regards to how to handle these situations and is more catered for POST A and how to stop the M from following the same old patterns.

I’ll break it down.
Detachment – to give the WS the ability to see for themselves what life would be like WITHOUT their S, also to aid the BS to better manage their personal sanity keeping them away from the life their WS and AP/LO are now living.
NC – don’t talk to your WS! No texts, calls or emails, for me this allows the WS to basically forget about his/her BS and focus entirely on the AP/LO.
No pursuing – can be construed as “I’ve got into this mess due to me taking you for granted or having little time for you” but will continue to do this now!
DTR – doing NO action that can be classed as supporting the WS.

If we were to look at the above list with a “beginners mind” what would it say? I don’t care about you, I’m not going to talk to you or help you in any way. Not very appealing and definitely not productive in building a relationship!

Why does the above list work? Can anybody explain it to me?

I personally feel that the lack of respect over many years of marriage diluted the R but how did this come about? I have read Sandi2 posts and done some research but is the list above any more conducive in regaining that respect or does it magnify and build up more resentment against the BS?

What makes these techniques productive, to me it goes against all reason with regards to building a relationship! If I were to want to start a new R the following would be true:
Talking – lots of talking and then more talking, how do you get to know the person? How do you keep that person interested? How can a R start without talking and continued talking at that?
Support – when we are wanting to be with this person on an emotional level do we not support their actions? Do we not help them when difficulties arise?
Having time for them – only over time does a R flourish! Long distance R aren’t that successful are they…

Does the above list sound a lot like what the AP/LO offered the WS to get them to the point of leaving the M?

Now this is where I feel I’m going to get lots of “stick” from people here but justify it.

What would happen if?
When your WS was to interact with you you did the following:
Listen to her and be her best friend, I mean no talk of the AP/LO or the A but talk like you did when you were first courting?
Be her safe place, let her know if she has problems about ANYTHING you are there to support her any way possible, you validate her, comfort her, be there for her.

Please don’t get me wrong I’m not suggesting you allow her to cake eat you continue to have certain boundaries, I also don’t feel any mention of his/her “other” life should come into the equation. I will try to continue to show my WW a person who is making himself the best person he can be physically and mentally whilst looking at why the MR failed and work at getting his side of the street in order.

There will come a time where affects the A is having on my WW will wain and at this point I don’t think not being there to support or interact with her for the previous months, years will aid in her seeing me as an option that is any better. Again the thought process is that AFTER this amount of time has passed the BS has found his/her life can go on with or without the WS again counter intuitive to the whole DR principles…

Thanks for reading.

Mark.

[doodler]

parkema,

I had the same dilemma; how do I reconcile the DR book (and coaches) with the forum? I think it's a really good question and I think it's a question almost all of us ask at some point.

I believe, for most of us that come to the forum, we may not realize it, but we're already in the "last resort" phase of DB. Our spouses are usually in an EA/PA and our best hope for resurrecting the marriage is to show our spouses that we're strong and we're willing to move on with our lives without them.

Unfortunately, most people who are new to the forum are often blindsided and so beset with fear that they often misinterpret the advice or they cherry pick the things they like and avoid the things they don't like.

I had a coach and I told the coach that my wife wanted to talk to my sons about divorce, but I didn't want to do that because I didn't want a divorce. The coach told me to go out and get find some information about how to talk to children about divorce and then give it to my wife. My brain was shouting, "NO WAY." What the coach was trying to do was to get me to do a 180 and show my wife that I was willing to move forward with the divorce (and by proxy move forward with my life). But, I was so full of fear that I felt like I had to continue delaying the divorce as long as possible. I should have been putting my effort into being happy and moving forward with my life. I thought I was DBing, but in reality I was clinging to my marriage for dear life.

In conclusion, I think the book and the forum are not as far apart as they may seem, but the book is addressing the full spectrum of marital discord, not just marriages in the final stage of decline.

I hope that helps. As usual, I could be wrong...

[SJW]

Hi Mark

I can understand what you are saying but you talk as though you are still in R with you WW and currently you are not, sorry if that sounds a bit harsh. What you are about with the new R is exactly where you want to get to with your WW right? But that will only be if/when SHE is ready. The techniques are about how you get there. You admit there have been issues, you don't want old R back because that is what lead to where you are now. Ideal world we want new R with the person we are still married to and to me DBing is about that exactly. We all change in M especially when kids come along and some people see excitement and an escape route in another person for a time and sometimes it can be a long time but they ultimately never end up better off than they were, unless of course they escaping an abusive R and you certainly don't sound like an abusive man.

Not sure if you've read my most recent posts but my H went on a dream holiday last week and it was a disaster!! A little different for him as he went without the kids and we would have normally been on our annual family holiday, even so believe you me your W will be comparing. She will remember family holidays previously with you and your kids, it will not be all rosy in the garden with OM. He will not be comfortable around your kids and as a mother she will not be comfortable with him around your kids. One of my absolute best friends is male, I have known him longer than I've know my H, he is Godfather to both my kids and is more like an Uncle to them than a friend. Once he reprimanded my kids when H was on tour and in fairness it was to defend me but I couldn't handle it and had to tell him and that's my best friend not someone I am having an A with and already feel guilty about. I hope that made sense?

Going back to your questioning about the techniques I do believe they work if you and find what works for you and your sitch and are consistent. The fact that she mouthed sorry to you is something up until then all you had was an ice queen so what was different?

Keep your chin up.
SJ x

[leahsue]

I agree with these, Mark.

Here's what I think may be confusing you, also. You talk as though you are still in a R with your wife, which legally, you still are. But emotionally, for her, you are not. You are separated, she has left you for another man, and she is not thinking of you as her husband any longer. What you keep trying to convince yourself of, is that you ARE still thought of and should be acting like her husband, so you want to act like a husband should act, all being there for her, comforting her, paying attention to her, etc.

That will be priceless, IF AND WHEN SHE WANTS TO BE YOUR WIFE AGAIN and HAVE a marriage with you. Right now, she does not. I know that is so hard to hear- it's even hard for me to say it. But until you really GET that, all this stuff you feel is counter-productive to a great marriage is wasted.

She is not going to forget you. She not ever want to be your wife again. But your best chance of her wanting that, is to see she is losing you. The YOU that she loved in the beginning of the R, not the nice guy, waiting by the door, hoping she will come back.

I think that's the hardest part for any of us. We so badly want to tell ourselves that DB is counter-productive, that our situation is different from the thousands on here, so we really don't have to do it, because OUR spouse is going to come back if we just look sad enough, or be kind enough, or whatever. It just doesn't work that way.

All those things you list up above are things to start to build a new R, when you both want one. Right now, she does not. So it's useless for you to think those things are going to work with her, until she comes to you and says, I'm done with OM, and I want us to start over and build a new R. THEN those things will be the building blocks you can start to work on. But you're not there, and you can't control if she'll ever get to that place. Which is why you keep hearing GAL- it's good for you, etc.... you know all that, but honestly, it's the only sane things to do, especially at first, while you know in your heart all you're doing is waiting and hoping she'll leave OM and want you back. Then slowly, as your heart gets in line with GAL, you'll start to care less and less.

If you've not read Divorce Busting, maybe order it also. It's also very good and may help you more in where you are right now.

Good luck, and I'm sorry if this came across as harsh. God knows I wish all this stuff were not true.

[Rose888]

Doodler is right. DR is geared toward marriages in general.

But even in DR, it says that you should go to LRT immediately under certain conditions, one of which is if you and your spouse are not living together.

[Btrow]

Mark,

You know I'm a newbie just like you, so I am by no means a professional DB'er. But you asked for opinions, here is mine.

When I first started reading DR (a couple of months after D) I found the book interesting. A 100 pages
in, I put it back in my drawer, stating to myself, "this is not for me". Imagine the losing coach of the SuperBowl comes into the dressing room after the game saying, "oh there is my playbook, if only I had it 4 quarters ago". That's how I felt. The book couldn't bring me anything in regards to saving my marriage, as it was already over by then (just like the Superbowl).

So I decided just to let my gut (continue to) tell me how to proceed in regards to my XW. It turned out that my gut told me basically the same stuff we're being told over and over again, here at this forum. (well 90 %'ish...)

Will my gut feeling bring back my XW? Probably not. But neither will the DR book. There is no doubt that there are some great tools in the books - when you are IN a functional or a faltering relationship - and also tools that applies to other aspects of life. But I didn't come here to change into a new person. I came to get my XW back. Someday I'll probably dust it off and read it, but I dont really think I NEED to right now.

What I believe bring back spouses, is not a special trick or any particular approach. It is the spouse that brings themselves back. Not me, not any book, no website. The WAW/WW/MLC must FOR THEMSELVES realise that they lost something that they somehow forgot they had or didn't appreciate enough they had. Basically, love brings them back. (or memories of love). Not your love for them, but their love for you.

So as long as my XW continues the "A", I continue my approach. Which is not at all intended to bring her back. It is intended to protect my emotions and my sanity. And most of all, my dignity and self-respect.

I try not to make matters worse and I also do not try make them better.

What my XW did to me is not something that I believe should be rewarded with my friendship, my compassion, a shoulder to cry on etc etc. She hurt me big time and I'm quite OK with her knowing that (I havent told her directly, but she probably senses it). I am not a jerk or anything, but it will be raining green pigs before I ever asks her how she is doing or "have a great weekend" - you get the drill.

However, WHEN (if ever) the A ends, and she is more likely to be recepient to common sense, I probably will twist my approch a bit. (If I'm still interested in getting her back by then, which seems more unlikely day by day). When the A is over, she will have served "her time". There is nothing I can do or say while she is in the fog, limerent, "in love" or whatever term you prefer to use, to get her back, so I see no reason to humiliate myself by giving her my friendship. Isn't that almost a win/win for her?

My self-respect is extremely important to me. A big part of me. Maybe even more important to me than my M. Why continue to let her walk all over it?

My advise to you Mark, walk the path that makes the most sense to you. Who knows, maybe your W is the one who is brought back by a friendship. The X'es are all different. That one thing that bring back yours is not guaranteed to bring back anyone elses, right? So do what you believe in. At the end of the day, this is your struggle. You should be able to look yourself in the mirror a couple of years from now and say "I did MY best".

Whatever approach you choose, I root for you.