Divorce and Acceptance- Part 2

[Pax_luv]

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2731122&page=1

Hello there,
New thread time. No idea which # this is. I started my last thread in February really being ok with the impending divorce. It wasn't what I wanted at all, but I know that I did everything I possibly could to try and salvage a relationship with ex. I didn't save my marriage, but I saved myself tenfold and have emerged from the rubble much much much happier, more confident in myself, more compassionate, more patient, more understanding, more forgiving, more loving, and just having an increased zest for life.

With that, the recent events with ex and the dog not only allowed me to purposefully drop the rope, but I also got the blow torch myself and burned it up. Being able to allow myself to completely let go has been very empowering.

I am still hanging out on the MLC board because I want to understand what this man may be going through. I do hope he wakes up and is able to accept his life "as is" without the constant running and chasing of happiness. I feel for him, but in a completely different way than I did before. More platonic, I guess.

While the divorce was filed a year ago in september, we have yet to make any real progress, and that should be coming up next. The accountants are now looking at everything. Ugh. This is the part that succcckkkssss. Money was always paramount in our relationship. It's ex's one and only true love.

I'm not sure I ever mentioned it before, but on our wedding night, Ex opened up all the cards and electronically deposited all the money instead of consummating the marriage with me. Yep. He had energy to count and deposit money, but not have time with his wife. Not only that, he was disappointed in the amount we got and blamed my side of the family. Ummmm red flags?!? So, yeah, on my wedding night not only did i not consummate the marriage, but I was made to feel bad that my family didn't contribute "enough" in financial gifts. What a complete #^*|!~€~*£|.

While its been the most painful experience of my life and more painful than I thought possible, I think the universe, guardian Angels, whomever, were and are looking out. I do believe now that this divorce had to happen because I was dead in my marriage. I had no spirit. I don't believe it was his intention at all, but being married to ex killed everything about me. Codependency at its finest. I had no sparkle in my life. For so many reasons I became a fraction of a woman... Too many to recount here.

So, life goes on. Im still on my journey of becoming a whole and complete person. The lifelong goal is to just be an awesome human.

I'm very interested to see where I'll be when this thread ends. Much love, DB friends.

[HaWho]

Wow. Just wow. That is a serious money grubbing act.

I think you've been given a new lease on life. It's a great opportunity to strengthen boundaries so that you attract a person who will honor them.

Onwards . . .

[pinn]

excuse me while I pick my jaw up off the floor.... wow.. just wow.. is right.

I know it is never good pax, but this really seems like a blessing. You keep on doing you. I think you will be and will make someone very happy one day. He's gonna be a lucky guy. Have a great week!

[Pax_luv]

Hey HaWho and Pinn. As always, thanks for the support.

It's not my intention to really focus on his terrible flaws. It's more or less reinforcement and giving me permission to move on as I have been. I guess its justification and rationalization on my end. Much like the justification the Mlcer did when they blew up their lives and ours.

I've been following along and I know on a couple other threads there has been substantial discussion on forgiveness and also holding on to "hope" that the ww, waw/h, mlcer "suffer" to some degree.

Yep... That is definitely something I struggle with a bit. I'm still dealing with the repercussion of h's actions and yet he seemingly gets to move on unscathed and it feels unjust. Now, let's be real... This is all part of the stuff I'm trying to work through, but it sure is HARD.

My ex sis and bro in law are in town and like my ex, they haven't poked their heads out. I did see my ex bro in law in a car as they were pulling into the driveway and he did not make eye contact at all. argggg- my ego wants to scream out and paint a different side to the story. But I won't go there.... They're allowed to think what they want about me. I get to live my truth.

As I was leaving my old home after dropping off the dog, I got genuinely angry. There's a part of me that wants to say, "are you all crazy thinking I'm this greedy gold digger after begging ex to be with me. He's playing the victim and you all buy into this vision.... And yet you can't even see how f'd up this all is?!? Can't youbut the pieces together!?" My ex sister in law cashed checks worth thousands and thousands of dollars that my ex wrote (in my name) from my personal account without my permission or knowledge after he filed divorce.... Really?!?! She's part of the fraud too!!!! And yet, I'm the evil one.

Uch. Crazy making.

Whatever. Karma karma karma, right? The truth comes out eventually. I just have to keep on my path. Stay the course, right?

[bttrfly]

Yes. Focus on your life and your truth xoxoxoxo

[Pax_luv]

Hey there,
I've tried to write this out a few times, but I'm not getting my thoughts right. I've been thinking a lot about how the divorce really needs to happen in many of our sitchs for any possibility of a successful r in the future, should it be an option.

I've witnessed the journey of a former lbs, who has in the last year, become a rogue ww. Her h cheated, they separated, he was remorseful and they got back together, and then they struggled for many years through the piecing process. Fast forward, she starts to retreat, he gives her space knowing she needs it, she respects it but it's not enough, and now she's out finding her happiness (sound familiar?)

And the truth is.... I completely respect her and her decision. She did the massive work then, and still does the work to this day to be a great human. She's just had enough and knows that her former life doesn't serve her anymore. She's figuring it out.

Over the last few months I've kind of come to this conclusion that the divorce needs to happen for both parties. 1) for those who left the marriage to truly understand the grass ain't greener on the other side and 2) I think it's just as important for the lbs do get a clean break otherwise you're just putting band aids on a wound without truly knowing the repercussions long term. I think without the d, some sort of baggage will always be there. And yes, of course, you can therapize the cr@p out of it, but soooo much sacrifice is done via the LBS that I think a breaking point will come at some point for the lbs and it could be years and years down the line.

My friend stifled so much for many years "acting as if" working on her own triggers etc. While her h also did the work and they were on steady grounds for a while, it just hasn't proven to be enough to sustain a life together.

When the d happens, it completely severs all ties thus allowing the lbs to actually decide if they would even want that anymore. Without the d, I feel like there might be an "obligation" to make it work if/when the spouse returns. I just think the divorce is the only way to truly have a clean slate and work on it together.

I may not have eloquently stated that, and I'm sure MWD would disagree and I know piecing is hard, but I just wonder if it leads to a truly authentic, open, and genuine relationship having so much mending to do.

Hmm. Not sure if that makes sense, but Ive been processing it for a while. Or maybe I just got to the point where I could say no way in HeL! Do I want to work with my ex and get back together. Not that it's ever been an option!

[Treasur]

I kind of get that, paxluv. Whatever combo of things are going on in my ditch/my H's head, I have not been able to find another way. So, maybe this is the only way to...whatever comes next. Maybe it's almost an act of faith.

I have no idea what my H feels about me, if anything. As far as I can see, he wants the D, wants to 'talk' after it and is planning to remarry OW who he spends weekends with. (He shouldn't because he is still far from healthy, but nothing I can do about it.)

The thing is for me, the love is the same. Loving him is simple; it just is. It was from the moment I realised I did in 1997. And I'm a very logical woman (usually) so it was a scary feeling. The love is simple. Everything else is impossibly complicated. So, I imagine that I will just have to live with loving someone who is no longer in my life, just like I still love my father who died. It's a strange place to be, isn't it?

[Treasur]

Meant 'sitch' but maybe 'ditch' is more accurate!

[Sotto]

Hey Pax, I certainly think you have a point there. For me, the D was a big release in that this guy was no longer 'my husband' he was just someone who was the boyfriend of someone else. That really released me from the obligation and did help me move forward. I think had the marriage continued, I would have agreed to work on things if he had turned back to us. I also see some LBS where - in early reconciliations - haven't grown to the extent that they can be individuals within the M and have the strength and conviction to put in place boundaries without fear of the consequences.

Treasure, I loved the spelling error - I agree 'ditch' (or pit as I sometimes say) is certainly appropriate. I certainly felt I plunged into a dark pit and clawed my way out. A friend recently said to me - wow you really bounced back from that situation (with XH) - I put her straight and said I wouldn't use the word bounce, which suggests an ease that wasnt' there. The word I use myself is claw.

As for still loving someone. I still love XH in some ways. I also don't like him much and wouldn't want to be in a R with him. But there is still love for how we were together, what we shared and what we have. But it is a 'released' love. I think there is a big difference between having released and still loving and holding on.

Xxx

[pinn]

wow Pax... you are so much more articulate than me! Perfect timing for me to read your latest post. That is certainly some food for though. I can certainly see your point and think I am coming around to agree with it. ugh! It does make me sad though. Maybe sometimes D is for the best. I think that clean break like you mention is really needed. hmph!

Anyway, thanks for writing your thoughts out so clearly, it really helps me reading them. Enjoy your Sunday!

[bttrfly]

Sotto, I love how you've so succinctly summed this up: he's no longer your husband; he's some other woman's boyfriend and that's not someone you want to be married to.

Yes, I think that sometimes people have to go all the way through with this - D - and then, well ... who knows where life will take us?

And yes, Pax I think the LBS needs it too, as there's nothing like a divorce to so firmly hammer home that the old relationship is dead.

Now, none of us know if a new relationship will take its place or what shape or form that new relationship will take or even when it will happen. But the divorce does seem to set the stage and frankly, I think it re-balances the power. Let me try to explain: The MLCr's leaving is a power grab, imho, of epic proportions, leaving most LBS's wrecked and traumatized.

The divorce, on the other hand, frees the LBS to move on with their life, while the MLCr is often still cycling. Does this make sense re: re-balancing the power? By moving on and focusing on their new lives, the LBS's become so much stronger and frankly, more attractive.

The MLCr is often still flopping about like a fish out of water, trying desperately to fix themselves.

The LBS has no choice really but to survive then ultimately thrive, and often this I think unintentionally can slap the MLCr upside their muddle head. It's a dose of reality sorely needed, in my humble opinion.

And the very best part: the LBS often doesn't even notice because they're too busy living their new lives.

Sometimes people do get back together - it's happened in my family with the first people to ever divorce (my uncle and aunt). They ended up living together again twenty years later. Just heard that my cousin (same side of the family, but different uncle and aunt) is re-married to his first wife and they're blissful. Again, many, many years after their divorce. My cousin dated and remarried, divorced a second time, dated two other women fairly seriously and ended up somehow re-connecting with wife #1 and the rest is history. So, reconnection sometimes can and does happen, but in so many of these cases where it happens it's after a significant time period where both parties move on so these relationships are truly new ones, with a rich history to base it on.

thanks for this post Pax xoxoxoxo

[pinn]

Hey Pax... how ya doing?? whats new?

[Pax_luv]

Hiya Pinn!

I'm doing a-ok! Thanks for asking!

Funny you should ask because I had an obnoxious 2 weeks. I had a leak in my apt, and then my closet collapsed on itself (whoopsie- too many clothes), and I had 3 ant invasions that all took time to deal with. On top of that, I had an ear infection that lasted a week, and my assistant got promoted to a managerial job (good for her, but bad for me) so I'm holding down the fort at work by myself. Lastly, my ex held my registration tags for my car hostage and Ive gotten 3 parking tickets for expired tags. Bleh.

The old Pax would have had a bit of meltdown because it all would seem overwhelming to manage (even though the old pax would have a husband to help with some of those things), however, with the new Pax, it all just rolls off my back. In the grand scheme of things i can handle my stuff.

I'll attribute this way of living to the DB approach. PMA baby.

Ok, the negatives.....just for kicks.

My ear infection caused me to cancel some surfing lessons I had lined up, which is a bummer, but I'll reschedule soon. And because I'm stressed at work, I've majorly succumbed to my entemann's chocolate donette cravings. (Coffee+doughnuts=true love). Also, because things have been chaotic, I've only been making it to the gym 2-3 times a week.

But hey- if that's the worst of it, I will take it!

Still dating. I have a front runner who just met my dog this weekend....so I guess you could say it's getting serious. Hahaha! He's super nice and brought me gorgeous roses that I have brought to my office to enjoy. He also bought me an egg genie to help me with my clean eating. Random, but thoughtful and cute!

Re the D- The accountants have the finances so it will probably be a few more weeks before we hear their recommendations. Zero interactions with ex. Meh- whatevs

So, how's that for an update?!? life is just moving right along. Chugga chugga chugga chugga.

[pinn]

That's a great update... made me smile! I am so envious. Keep it up, I gotta take some notes!

[Pax_luv]

No need to be envious! What I've learned is it is 100% possible to turn your life around once you truly decide what you want. You are in a tough spot where you eventually will need to start making some moves. But I guess, if you take action and then realize it's not the right path you can decide if your next move will be exiting the relationship or moving towards a relationship. I guess I've gotten a bit jaded as I've learned that not all major decisions have to be final. However, I believe marriage should be an all-in "no backsies" move.

If you told me 2 years ago, my life would not only be better, but more fulfilling than while in the m, I would have thought you were just trying to console me. But it is true. I can't even believe the doors that have opened and experinces I've had. My life has been elevated as a result of going through such hardship. I will never take this experience for granted at all.

Life is good. I'm responsible for making it good.

[pinn]

Maybe envious was the word.... inspirational is the correct word. You definitely inspire me! You are further along mentally than myself in this journey but I am going to try to model my thought process after yours here on out. Thanks pax!

[Pax_luv]

Hi friends! Hope you're all having a great week and doing as well as possible. My thoughts go out to all those in Texas. I keep you and your loved ones in my thoughts and prayers. I can't keep reading the horrific news stories about the devastation. So scary and sad.

So, a bit of a non-update vent. Today is my best friends anniversary. She and her h have been married 5 years. I was her maid of honor and ex was also in the wedding party for the grooms side. They are a solid couple who mean the world to me. And today, as they posted their "happy anniversary" lovey dovey declarations to each other on facebook I was consumed with an emotion that was like pent up frustration, anger, and jealousy and sadness all mixed into one.

This emotion wasn't pining for ex at all. It was more of a pity party like "why couldn't my h last 5 years with me? We had ups and downs just like you, why couldn't we persevere? What's wrong with me?

Her anniversary hit me hard last year too. I was jealous. Could it be because we're so close and so invested in each other's lives? I don't know. But last year's was hard too because at my 4 year anniversary, that's when ex gave me the baby ultimatum. "Hey how come your husband bought you a watch for your anniversary? I got an ultimatum. Get pregnant or get divorced. Not fair!" Yep... That kind of jealousy And sadness where I felt completely unloveable.

So again... Just sulking a bit I guess. Frustrated with myself that I let this man treat me like utter garbage for years and angry over the fact that I allowed this man to break my heart over and over and over again. And angry that I'm still working through the emotional fall out (this I know, is a blessing, the process is just difficult).

Here I am 2.5 years out from bomb drop and I am kind of aching to have real love and yet I'm not sure I'm going to get it because I'm afraid of settling. I just don't know. And yet, as we've all mentioned a million times before, the ex's seem to move on unscathed. They don't live with that constant ache. Ok...ok.... I know they have their issues and will have to deal with reality when the time comes... But by then, has all this turmoil been buried so far in the past that it doesn't affect them as deeply?

I don't know and clearly I can't focus on it. I just get these emotions sometimes and it makes me mad because I don't want to feel like crap over this anymore! I'm done. I don't give it permission to sneak up on me and yet It does and I have to take all sorts of emotional stock to sort it out and move on.

Anyway, i allowed my brief jealous, angry, sad, frustrated butt to get to the gym and I knocked out 140 deadlifts, grr... Now I feel like a beast.

Ex, who?

[bttrfly]

well that was a very productive and positive way to handle the emotions. Good job!! Pax, it's just another turn of the LBS wheel. You will get through this in a shorter time frame the the last one. If we all keep doing the work, then eventually these episodes will get shorter and shorter until they stop completely because we've released all that we need to release.

She's close to you. It makes sense that this event, of which you and exh were a part will stir things up for you.

None of us knows the future but I believe we didn't come this far to be dropped now. in the right time we will all get our happier ever after and it will be something and / or someone we never could have imagined. we just have to get through the releasing process first.

{{{{{hugs}}}}} xoxoxoxoxo

[pinn]

Ugh Pax! I’m sorry you had a tough day yesterday. I feel your pain. Myself, my brother and my best friend all got married within a span of 6 weeks. This is my third year of seeing their lovey dovey postings. Like you, it does bother me and I feel guilty that it does. I love them all so much and just want them to be happy. But there is a piece of me that just wants what they have. Ugh! FB is such a pain sometimes! I get jealous but mainly sad. Sad because I think I feel like what they are posting is how I envisioned my life to be or at least what I wanted.

If it makes you feel any better, my W could barely last 2 years with me… so what’s wrong with me?!? Yikes! At least you got 4! I share your frustration and anger. For me, the off an on again relationship was 20 years where she flip flopped all the time. 20 prime years! All we can do now is look forward and learn from this…. Which, by the way, you do a great job at!

I think anyone who has gone through this now for a few years is aching for that real love Pax. We probably did not even feel loved in our relationship. Looking back, I know I did not. And I don’t think you did either. I think you have to put the ‘settling’ thing out of your mind. Somehow, someway. When WW and I would be not together before we were married, I was always worried about settling. And it hurt any possible relationship because I was always looking at the negatives first (and comparing her to WW). It is a huge regret. At least I am conscious of that now I guess?? Don’t worry about it and let things flow. You are going to find a great guy Pax who gives you what you are looking. You are the complete package believe that!

Those emotions are going to creep up from time to time and the triggers can be pretty strange. I remember, one of the worst triggers for me in the past year was a snow storm (WTH???). But you channeled it well and crushed it at the gym. Impressed with those dead lifts, dead lifts rule.

Have a great long weekend!! Go and get it!

[ciluzen]

Oh, man, Pax. I'm right there with you. In my thread I'm still talking about how 2 years after BD I can still be "wrecked" by certain things, usually a jealousy fueled incident. At the time I wrote, it was only an hour. But the next day, it hit harder.

Anniversaries, weddings, or just someone talking about how much they love their signifigant other on FB or other media can set me off, too. I felt loved throughout the majority of my marriage, even when it was strained, but my ex always downplayed Christmas, birthdays, Valentines...anything where he was expected to make an effort, as "commercial" or over the top. Often said "why give gifts on that day, when you can just buy what you want any day". I just accepted it. Now, I see it for the selfishness and laziness it was. He didn't want to make the effort. He still doesn't make an effort with my adult kids...if there is an issue, he asks me how I'm dealing with it. Sometimes it takes distance to see the real deal. So, those events on social media trigger jealousy and negative feelings. We'll get over it with time. We're both about the same distance out from under it.

And I hear you on the exes moving on seemingly unscathed as we doubt our abilities to find real love or be able to trust. I met a really nice guy, very shy, but seems to have processed his own D in a healthy way. And another who seems to have his sh&t together who is interesting. Few sparks, but I crave what I thought I had and I'm sort of lonely in that area...I'm afraid of settling, too. But I won't. I have the excuse of school to hold things at bay, but the fear is there. I guess we just focus on making our lives awesome and hope for the best? That making ourselves awesome will attract awesome?

I'm glad you were able to use your feelings to push yourself at the gym. That's a great way to get those endorphins flowing and improve noticeably. You are inspiring! And amazing. Like does attract like...maybe just be patient. Good things will come.

[Coly23]

Sending you hugs (((Pax))). I am with you on feeling jealous of friends and family in relationships. . More so in the early days but every now and again the green eyed monster comes calling and I want to stamp my feet and say WHY ME or WHY NOT ME!!

Hang in there Pax..

[Sotto]

Sorry you had a rough time Pax (((hugs)))

I'll tell you what has helped me and that's to think of life as cyclical. We had really happy wedding days as other couples were breaking up. We're just recovering as someone else discovers infidelity. We may happily start dating as another relationship is on the wane. It is all just ebbs and flows. Some people are lucky enough to have happy relationships, others not, others are happy now but may not be later - who knows. Anyway, it helps me to see things in this way - nothing is fixed and everything shifts over time. I'm not saying I want others to be unhappy who are happy now - just that for us all - life unfolds as it will.

I read a great article recently. We can't post links but if you google mind body green and three loves. Love of self, love for others (friends, family) and doing things you love, that bring flow. If we follow this path, happiness will never be too far away - whether we are in a romantic relationship or not.

Have a lovely weekend xx

[leahsue]

Pax,
It makes me cringe too, that FB thing. But I always kind of thought it was too much when married people went on there like they were talking to each other! Heck, they were probably in the same room, or at least house. But I WILL ADMIT, I didn't mind when H would go on there and post something about me. It was rare, b/c he was not a big FB fan, but he knew I was, so he made the effort. THOSE make me sad, when they pop up randomly like, Here's your memory from five years ago! WTH?

Anyway, don't feel bad about your feelings. They are real. And I think oftentimes, FB is NOT.

[Pax_luv]

Hi All,
I'm back on even footing. It was another turn of the LBS dial.... Just taking another step forward and not looking back.

This is going to be a long post because you all made such poignant and thoughtful replies. Thank you for the kind reminder that none of us are in it alone.

Bttrfly, I agree. We did not come this far to dropped now. I do believe there will be great light in the future for all of us. I guess my inpatience is getting the better of me right now as well. Additionally, my shriveling geriatric eggs are in the forefront of my mind right now, too. So if my future baby daddy/ husband could just show up at my doorstep, that would be great. I'm joking... But..... Ya know!

Pinn- I feel like we have a secret handshake now! Thanks for your post. Yes, I did not feel loved by ex and I now realize I wasn't loved by ex. He was infatuated, yes, but he didn't love me. I knew he wasn't capable of real love in his life, but I thought I was the exception. He had tons of FOO issues.... Maybe I thought I could fix them. Loving him was a challenge and I got burned by it. Our MC told me I was never going to be enough for him. She was right.

But I am enough for me and that's all I need.

Ciluzen. Thank you for the post. I had to nod in agreement with everything. My ex Was kind of similar when it came to holidays and gifts. It wasn't so much for the commercialization... He simply "did not believe in sentimentality". Those were his exact words. It would drive me crazy when he felt obligated to buy a gift.. He would go into a store and buy the first thing he saw. It had no meaning or relevance to the receiver. He was simply checking off a box. I remember one Valentine's Day he bought me some plain t shirts. I was so hurt by this. Not because of the gesture... But because I hate t shirts and he knew it!!! I have a boxy athletic figure and I feel man-ish in a t shirt. I wear tanks and blouses. He couldn't even explain why he chose them for me. Ohhhhh and don't get me started on my engagement ring. He picked up a diamond from a friend. He thought it was a good price for the quality. Again.... Didn't even consider the fact that it was supposed to be a meaningful piece of jewelry that symbolized our commitment to each other. Honestly, I hated it. I brought it up a couple times and I was made to feel bad that it wasn't good enough for me.

And now I know that my feelings were all based on expecting him to be something/feel something he wasn't capable of.

re: settling- I think I'm going to have to make a whole separate post on this because it's complex. I'm playing the game of "detached dating" and by this I mean "I do me" and "you do you" and I'm not going to get caught up in any behaviors/dynamics that may lead to enmeshment or codependence. But I'm wondering if I'm ignoring negative behaviors because Im not letting the guy get to me? More on this later.

Cil, I'm sorry you have the same fears with settling that I do. However, I am glad you have so much going on that you don't have to focus on this at all. Just continue being your awesome self.

Coly, thanks for the hugs! Ugh. Jealousy is a b! But if we can manage it by checking our egos, we will surely be learning a far greater lesson. I wish these lessons came with some sort of immediate incentive, though! A Starbucks gift card from the universe, perhaps? Ha!

Sotto, thank you. I envision you as this warrior goddess who always comes in with the calm and effective feedback. I appreciate you. Thanks for bringing up the cyclical vision. It's true.... There are so many ebbs and flows in life and it's happening with everyone. I'll have to get Googley and look for your suggestion. Thanks again.

LeahSue- thanks for dropping by. I've been following your thread over in new comers. Yes, social media is the worst sometimes. I've listened to so many podcasts that should give me perpective, but I choose to ignore it! Social media is the platform by which we want the world to perceive us. We want to show our success stories. As such, those following the stories start to feel bad that their life isn't going the same way... And we need not to go down that rabbit hole. However, you are right, FB is not real!

Ok... That's all I got for now. Hope you are all doing fab. Xoxo.

[Pax_luv]

So I just re-read my post and I had to laugh at what I shared. (I post from my phone which is why it's more of a stream of consciousness). The man bought me t-shirts for crying out loud! <--- I feel like this should be the MLCer talking and justifying their actions.

I swear the gift was fine. I was just hurt by the fact that I knew he didn't consider "me" in that gift at all. Alright... Back to regular programming.

[Coly23]

Sorry but a t-shirt I'd not a valentines gift! He's a weirdo!

[Treasur]

My H was a great gift buyer, and what made him good was that they were always about 'me', things I liked that sometimes I didn't even know he knew I liked. Don't think he bought me a bum gift in 18 years.

(Of course I do know have a STBXH who will ignore our anniversary and treat my birthday as no longer worth acknowledging, as he did last year.)

[pinn]

Damn Pax... all that from your phone?!?... and not one mistake to be found? When I post (or do any communication from my phone) it is a mess. That's a sign of being lazy and I do not like that. New goal for Pin.... re-read everything before hitting send from my phone... be more like Pax!

Glad you are feeling better. Super interested on your post on dating and settling. You are ahead of me, but I have been thinking a lot about the future and how I want to handle the dating thing so I am heading into similar waters. I def do not want to settle but at the same time I do not want to shut someone out because I find one thing little wrong. I like stats and it is a 50-50 shot on getting divorced in a first marriage... everyone knows that. But the stats on a second marriage ending in divorce that has at least one partner who was divorced prior is way higher... like 65%ish. Yikes! How is that possible? Is it because most people do not do the work to get to the root of their issues? Or rush into the next thing too quickly? What about people like us? Are we more likely to have a happy marriage in the future because we have done a bit of work? hmph! Sorry for the slight hijack.

When we think back, it is amazing sometimes that the WAS did things that really hurt but they had no idea. Like your t-shirt's. On our anniversary, I bought WW a bunch of sentimental gifts and when I went to give them to her... she goes... "oh... we are doing gifts?". And then she runs to the store and gets me like these plain pajama pants. When we were hanging out for a bit the past year, I wore those one time and she goes... "where did you get those?" HAHA! Put my pants and your tee shirts together and we have a killer DB'ing outfit!

Enjoy the rest of your labor day weekend!

[Pax_luv]

Hi guys! Happy almost weekend!

Oh my gosh.... I have such chills right now!

I've been riding some small emotional waves this week and stupid me watched a show this evening that triggered a lot of things in me. Was thinking about ex a lot and how I've allowed him to treat me and the downfall of our commitment. I found myself sobbing on the couch just so so sad over many things.

I thought to myself... This is not ok! Get it together girl! So I gathered my notebooks/ DB toolkit to review some learnings and epiphanies and just get myself together.

I decided to read back through my pages and pages of notes that I had taken early on in the situation as a refresher of key points and, truthfully, I'm stunned by how far I've come. Holy moly!

But that's not why I'm posting....

Back when i was still a wreck over everything, I visited a few....ummm... Helpers.
Ok... Truth is.... I had a tarot reading, a psychic reading, and a visit with a spiritual guide/ psychic. Don't judge! What can I say? I needed answers! Even if I wasn't sure that I was a believer, I always felt a lot better after a reading. It was cheaper than therapy

So.... I am floored right now, because the spiritual guide/psychic was SPOT ON! I am very studious so I took notes on everything.... And yep.... There it was on paper... Timelines, actions, etc. all spot on! How crazy is that!? I need to set up another appointment with her!

Agh- chills. My appt was back in january 2016 and she laid out everything that I am experiencing with this divorce. At that time I still had hope that we were going to make it work. Divorce wasn't even on the table (yet). but she let me know that we were going to get divorced and to be careful because ex was going to contest everything. Keep in mind..... She knew NOTHING of my sitch. She could just see the tremendous about of sadness surrounding me.

There's more stuff, too but I'm afraid if I put it out in the universe, my spirit guides will get mad. Ha ha... I'm only halfway joking! I have nothing but love and respect for you, spirit guides! (Just in case they're listening:-) )

Soooo crazy. It's chilling!!

Just had to pop in and share!

[pinn]

(((Pax)))... are you really going to leave us in suspense as to what else the spirit gods had to say?!?

We all get down once in a while but glad you were able to work through it. Youu have come far! Enjoy the weekend!

[bttrfly]

um ... ok, my dearest friend reads tarot and is a medium. the universe will not be upset by you putting stuff out there but you have to be comfortable before you do so.

there are a lot of ways to find answers. no one should judge anyone.

xoxoxo

[ciluzen]

Ummm...while visiting a friend in MA about the time XH started really acting questionable (about 8 yrs go, now), friend and I spent a day in Salem. I had my cards read by a guy. Looking back, he was SPOT ON. He was very specific, unlike most readings I've had. That was surprising to me, but so were some of the changes he saw coming up. I laughed about them in telling my friend because they seemed so out of the blue, but they have now happened. I don't know...and I'm ok with that.

[Coly23]

Ooh, I'm so interested in this stuff! Although, I had my palm read a few years ago and the guy said I would have three kids! Last time I counted I only seem to have one ... :0)

[Pax_luv]

Hi all,
Been a little bit since I've posted. Just been supper busy.

I love how supportive this board is. I've not shared the psychic visits with my family... They would have opinions about it, but I love how non-judgemental and supportive this space is. Thank you! Xoxo


Speaking of psychics... As I predicted would happen....Ex fired his lawyer and got a new one. I pray this one is not a malicious shark and helps bring ex down to earth in terms of the divorce process and reality of splitting things up. I'm both calm and nervous about it. Ah well.

Other than that, things continue to move ever forward. Mt Whitney is coming up. I have a volunteer medical mission after that. Then I need to continue to plan out the rest of the year and line up some more adventures/goals. Oh! Me and my girlfriend just got tickets to see brene brown in the fall. She's doing a book tour. That will be fun and enlightening and hopefully uplifting and centering. That will be the same day as "what should be" the final court date. Fingers crossed.

I have some more traveling I want to do, and I want to up my fitness game a little. So I have to start mapping that out. We shall see what happens!

I feel like I'm on the cusp of some more changes, but good changes. I'm actively being vetted for a another job which essentially would allow me to do my current job for the entire region vs the local work i currently do. It's exciting and I may not even have to move! Like I said, we shall see!

That's it for now. Just wanted to pop in and say hello. Hope you are doing well!

[Sotto]

Hi Pax, glad to hear things are going well for you. Truly, I think you have your life so well lined up that once the irksome D matters stop weighing you down, you'll truly fly.

Great news about the BB event - wow!! I'm going on a workshop in the Autumn, not run by her, but by one of a network of facilitators. I'm so looking forward to it!!

Hopefully the L change might bring a little more sense to the proceedings. In my situation, XH began by 'offering' me very little by way of a settlement. He regarded most of 'our' marital assets as 'his.'

Once he got a L, he seemed to accept how these things actually worked. And we had the added factors of - he seemed frantic to exit the M and start a new life/family - his L warned him of potentially huge (£60k+) legal bills for a contested D...

In the end, we agreed on the usual settlement in our circumstances - Total assets - XH takes what he came in with, so does Sotto. The rest gets divided 50/50.

The formula seemed to help and removed some of the emotion. We ended up with a single page spreadsheet showing how that would work...

Any ways, I know you are going to be just fine and I hope things resolve for you soon.

Take care Pax xx

[leahsue]

Hi Pax,
My daughter and I went to hear B Brown speak a few years ago back before she got so famous- she is an amazing lady! I'm reading her brand new book right now and it's coming at a good time!

Sounds like you're in a good place!

[pinn]

Thanks for the update Pax!

Good luck on Whitney! That's no joke! We look forward to hearing about it.

I had never heard of BB until I just did a quick search. Interesting! Is there a book in particular you would recommend?

I really hope the new lawyer turns out to be blessing. I know things have not being going smoothly, so hopefully this makes it a bit better. Hang in there!

This line from Sotto is great:

"Truly, I think you have your life so well lined up that once the irksome D matters stop weighing you down, you'll truly fly."

That's a fact!

[Coly23]

Hey Pax, hopefully the new lawyer will help to make this D process a little less painful for you.

Like pinn I'm looking forward to hearing about Mt. Whitney!

[leahsue]

Hey Pinn,
Maybe try the BB Ted talk or Oprah Soul Sunday interview first. Her last 3 books IMHO are probably most relevant to those of us in our sitch. (Can't give the names on here as don't want to break DB rules, but her stuff is definitely not in conflict or competition with DB.)

[Pax_luv]

Hi guys,
Hope this week starts off beautifully for you all.

I feel so incredibly stupid. I tried to open an email dialogue about my dog with ex and it was a huge mistake. Well #1, I had to inform him of something re:dog, and I used it as an opportunity to open the dialogue about better coordination of dog care...which he shot down and then shot at me.

I'm just trying to collaborate on the dog's overall care and he basically rips me a new one. I can't get into it here...But apparently I'm an awful dog parent for removing the dog from his home. Wtf?!?!?!!?!

Stupid me woke up in the middle of the night to read his response and I'm just devastated. There will be no escaping his evilness, right? He's never gonna give up, right?

I don't have the nastiness in me to fight back and fight dirty. I never have.... I've been trying to move on from this relationship with grace and with my head held high, but he will stop at NOTHING to slam me and ensure that he wins.

What do I do? Seriously. I need help, please. He's a bully that won't go away.

I'm in bed clutching to my dog and sobbing my eyes out... Because I just have this fear that he might win. As crazy and far fetched as it first sounded.... I now truly fear that he will win and get full custody of the dog because of his twisted games.

I'm at such a loss.

[bttrfly]

express your concerns to your lawyer. show your lawyer the email that got you so upset. find out exactly what your rights are.

hang in there. xoxoxo

[Pax_luv]

Thanks bttrfly. I definitely am passing it along to my lawyer.

I have no clue how to deal with such an awful human being. He and I both know he's a liar and yet he's gonna stick to his story and make me look like the bad guy and it just baffles me. There's no collaborating with him at all. It's just nasty and hurtful spew.

I guess I'm just scared for how else I should be protecting myself because nothing is off limits with him.

Ugh...

I don't know how to disarm him and I don't know how to protect myself from all curveballs. He must be in a really bad place to be verbally combative.

[pinn]

Ugh so sorry pax! I let others chime in who have dealt with someone like this. I hope they can give some useful advice.

Just giving my support (((pax)))

[Sotto]

I'm sorry Pax (((hugs)))

I must sound like a broken record with this one....but his anger is all about him okay?

Just because he says X, it doesn't mean that you are Y...

These are his issues and if he chooses to deal with this situation in such a way, that's up to him and isn't really about you.

Given his behaviour, does it work for you to be in direct contact with him? It helped me a lot to manage contact with XH by removing that email account from my phone. Then he couldn't access me wherever and whenever. I accessed stuff from him in my own time and on my own terms and it did me a lot of good. He had no idea of course..

The most response I would offer your ex (if any) is I'm sorry you feel that way...

But put this event in the context of the rest of your life, which is headed in such a good direction. It is a horrid thing and you may feel yucky for a little while and then you will move past it...

In the meantime, take care and my best wishes to you xx

[Pax_luv]

Thanks Pinn and Sotto,

And no, you're not a broken record Sotto... I actually always keeps your guidance in the back of my mind and I do take it to heart.

I think Im doing a better job of employing my shield to deflect this anger... Where I get tripped up is when he lies to me, his lawyer, the judge... I am so fearful that I don't have a leg to stand on because his stories are that good.

I don't know how to protect myself from him... especially from that which is unknown... He's pretty malicious and the new item of business is about the dog which makes me get all mama-bear. It's tough. I can't imagine how painful this must be with human children in the mix.

[Pax_luv]

Hiya DBers,

Exactly one year ago yesterday, my ex served me with divorce papers. We had a long 15 month separation before that, where I held out hope for reconciliation. Since he filed for the divorce, everything has gone waaaaaaaay down hill between him and I. It's been an ugly year.

The good news is, yesterday will no longer be remembered as the day I got served, but the day I climbed Mt. Whitney! Woohoo!

The hike was extremely strenuous, but I'm proud of the accomplishment. It was quite the experience and I'm so glad I did it. I was so loopy and fatigued from the 6,000+ rapid elevation gain that, at one point, I was ready to crawl onto a rock and wait to become coyote food. Thats so morbid, but that's how exhausted I was. Each step took so much energy! Couple the altitude with navigating the treacherous terrain with patches of ice and snow, and being sleep deprived, and it just made for an exhausting experience. Me and another girl in my group had issues with the elevation, but we all finished and are all back at our usual sea level trying to take it easy and recover.

When I made it to the top, first thing I did was sign the log book. I made a bee line for the book without even taking in the view. I knew my goal in advance and that was to sign the book with my maiden name! It was ceremonial for me and it felt amazing! i was so proud of myself because this was me, being me, for me! I was able to then go take in the view and see exactly what I worked so hard for.

It was perfectly symbolic and another giant step forward. I know ex still affects me because he's just diabolical..... But I got me....and I have truth and integrity on my side and I'm capable of many things.

That's all for now...going to do some more recovery before I go pick up my dog. Can't wait to snuggle with him.

Wishing you all a lovely weekend.

[kml]

You GO girl!
I climbed Whitney after my ex's first MLC affair - we had reconciled by the time the climb came around and we made it together. I didn't try to do it all in one day though. I took it easy and summitted on the third day ( but hiked all the way out that day too) No altitude sickness that way. But to be fair, we went the first open weekend in the spring. You know the switchbacks up to the Ridge? That was a snow field we climbed with ice axes and crampons. (Yes, I felt like a badass 47 year old!)

Love you signing your maiden name!

[job]

Congratulations on the climb at Mt. Whitney!

[pinn]

wow... way to go pax! Signing with your maiden name must have been liberating. That was a great goal... you go!

[Pax_luv]

Hey there!
KML, Job, Pinn, thanks for the congratulatory notes!

It's taken a bit to recover, but now that the pain and trauma is a few days old... I can look back and say Holy Cow, that was amazing! I can't believe I did that. I can't wait to do it again!

KML- I remember you sharing your training for the hike..you are definitely a bad a$$ woman...I tip my cap to you, lady! So awesome!


Yesterday, my family threw me a surprise bday party as I'll be away on my actual birthday. That was really nice of them. It was fun to share my whitney stories!

Now onto the next venture.... I will be going on an international medical mission next week. I'm nervous, but think the experience will be challenging and rewarding. There is an acupuncturist on our team so I think it's pretty cool that we'll be able to help some of the population using eastern and holistic medicine. Talk about progressive!


Today, I am grateful for my friends who made it out of the Vegas country concert unscathed. Others weren't so lucky. The world is such a crazy and scary place. I'm reminded to love those in my life as they are and appreciate them as they are because as we all know.... Tomorrow is never guaranteed. So sad.

And I'm grateful for all of you, as well. Wishing you a peaceful and loving week.

[Pax_luv]

Hey DB land! Hope all is going as smooth as possible for all of you.

Been a few weeks since my last post. I've been a busy bee. After climbing whitney, I turned around and went on a medical mission. It was very enriching and eye opening.

This weekend was my first weekend in town and I spent most of my time cleaning out my stuff. I was working on my KonMari purge about a month ago, then life got in the way and my place became an utter disaster so I started over this weekend. After the mission, I know with 1,000% certainty that I really want to live simpler. Having lots of gorgeous shoes isn't going to cultivate any extra happiness.

Other than that, everything is going well.

For some reason my anxiety with ex over the last few weeks has been heightened. I've had to shoot him a few emails... And it doesn't matter what I do or what my intent is, he uses it as an opportunity to smash me. Ughhhh it's exhausting. I want to just say, "forget it, it's not worth it" but it's over the dog, so I'm going out of my comfort zone and pushing a bit. The old pax would allow him to bully and then I'd retreat. The new pax listens to (ie: reads) the bullying responses and then redirects the conversation.

It's not helping much, because no matter what I do, or what I write, or how I write it, he turns it into berating me, or going off on a tangent related to the divorce. He makes up so much stuff and that becomes his truth. Theres no clarifying or explaining, because we'll just keep going down the rabbit hole. He has no desire to actually hear anything I have to say. Which was prevalent in the marriage. So, I take it upon myself to try to keep the content focused while biting my tongue. After 2.5 years... I'm SO over it!

Ugh.... It's like dealing with the worlds brattiest teenager. I know many of you understand.

Anyway, that's all I got for now. Wishing you all a lovely week!

[pinn]

Hey Pax.. good to hear from ya! You have been a busy bee.

Good for you going out of your comfort zone and doing what is right for the pup! You have to do that. I wonder what (if anything) you can do to relieve that anxiety a bit though. hmmmm.... I am sure you don't show the anxiety to him, but making you feel anxious is probably what he is going for right (even if it is subconscious on his part)?? Then he kind of wins in a way I guess.

I hear ya on 2.5 yrs... you and me both!

Don't be a stranger... we like to hear about your growth and adventures!

[bttrfly]

good to hear from you pax ... echoing pinn's comments.

keep focused on your goals and realizing that whatever he's spewing is on him, not you, and not reality based.

Aren't you grateful not to be him?

xoxoxo

[Pax_luv]

Thanks for the encouragement and support, Pinn and Bttrfly!

And the beat goes on.....

I actually read about ciluzen's tattoo on bttrflys thread and realized I miss this virtual gang! Cil, a tattoo is on my list too! I think..... I could totally chicken out but it is a 180 for sure! Ok... Back on topic- It's been really busy so I haven't had much time to respond on other threads but I try to follow along. Apologies for that.

Lots of things happening and yet nothing of huge importance, but thought I would give another non-update .

So, I continue to stretch the boundaries on my goal setting and since I wrapped up my last few big goals, I decided it was time for another one. Ok.... This is a HUGE stretch goal, but in 2018 I will be doing a fitness competition. Eeek! I'm excited and scared and know the preparation is going to be so hard, but I like a challenge and I am looking forward to the distraction. Whew. Wish me luck! It's going to be a long journey and will be harder than training for the marathons I've done since discovering DB and GALing.

I'll be ramping everything up after the new year so ill at least get to have some fun over the holidays. After Jan 1, the fun stops and it will be chicken, sweet potatoes and vegetables for me. Boo This is just one of those things I NEVER in a million years thought I could do which is precisely why I'm doing it! I have to see what I'm made of!

With that, this will be a good distraction as this d continues to be dragged out... Ahhh yes, the divorce proceedings have been postponed yet again! Ho hum. I recall the days where I would breathe a sigh of relief each night knowing I hadn't been served that day. There was always that glimmer of hope that he was thinking of us/me and what he was throwing away and second guessing himself. I considered each of those days a gift.

Funny how things change and I can't get out of this thing fast enough. Enough already, dude! No more games!

Sadly for him, this extensive time apart has taught me the most valuable lessons that I will carry with me for the rest of my life. He is still stuck in 2015 holding on to his anger and blaming me. Honestly, If he ever wakes up and looks at his choices and behavior it will be a sad day for him. He threw away so much. I guess you know that you've met a whole new level of detachment when you can go from indifference to compassion. Poor guy.... I'm pretty awesome and he's missing out (haha).

Not saying he still doesn't get to me, because he does.... Especially when he is making stuff up! meh- whatever. It's just the rantings of a man who has lost control.

Anyway, I'm rambly. Nothing of major importance.... Just moseying along and doing my thang

Have a great week DB friends!

[pinn]

So, I continue to stretch the boundaries on my goal setting and since I wrapped up my last few big goals, I decided it was time for another one. Ok.... This is a HUGE stretch goal, but in 2018 I will be doing a fitness competition. Eeek! I'm excited and scared and know the preparation is going to be so hard, but I like a challenge and I am looking forward to the distraction. Whew. Wish me luck! It's going to be a long journey and will be harder than training for the marathons I've done since discovering DB and GALing.

I'll be ramping everything up after the new year so ill at least get to have some fun over the holidays. After Jan 1, the fun stops and it will be chicken, sweet potatoes and vegetables for me. Boo This is just one of those things I NEVER in a million years thought I could do which is precisely why I'm doing it! I have to see what I'm made of!

yaaaaaa Pax!!! you go get em! you will get used to the chicken and vegetables ;-)

[Pax_luv]

Hello DBers. Hope you all had a wonderful thanksgiving!

I just went through my 3rd thanksgiving without ex and it was the best one yet! I think we're all keenly aware of the emotional pendulum swings throughout this process and I am so so so thankful that I'm no longer living under this shadow of darkness.. And I'm no longer feeling suspicious of times when I actually do feel good.

I Remember when I would have a good day, week, month and I was so grateful to feel like myself again. I wanted to hold onto that, but knew eventually something would trigger some sadness and I would be back at the bottom of the mountain feeling too exhausted to get myself to the top again. Nowadays, I'm feeling good and feel extra grateful for the days I feel great. That sadness over ex doesn't exist anymore. Now don't get me wrong, I'm sad I don't have a life partner, and I don't have a family of my own. I have big time fear over not being able to have a healthy baby of my own, however, I've come to that place where I'm upset about it, but Im not hanging onto any resentment with ex and blaming him for me potentially not being able to have a baby. I'm super grateful for that progress.

Everyone on this journey who has walked before me says it gets better and it does. It just takes time. Thank god for time.

With the holidays coming up, I'm also grateful that I actually am in the spirit this year! I always loved Christmas but was too grief stricken to appreciate the holiday spirit. This year, I feel like I would be ready to put out my decorations and appreciate them.... The only thing is, I may be too busy (aka lazy) for that, so I'll be bringing pieces of the decor to my office. I spend most of my time there anyway!


Well, that's all I got for now. Life continues to move along and yep.... It's better than I thought it could be.

Be well. Much love to you all.

[pinn]

Congrats on the progress Pax! Such a great story seeing how far you have come over the past 2+ years.

The decorations do take so much time! I feel like I am in the same spot, but that laziness takes over haha! I like the idea of bringing your decor to the office.

2018 is yours! big things for you are a coming...

[Pax_luv]

Gosh, hard to believe it's almost been a month since my last post.

Hope the holiday season is treating everyone as well as possible!

I was sick with a cold all weekend and was able to catch up on many threads. It's always hard reading the stories in new comers. Breaks my heart. I remember the days of just existing in a black cloud.... Ugh. The first 6 months after bd are the worst. Well, new or veteran, my heart goes out to everyone this time of year. Blessings to all!

A non-update...

No new developments in my sitch. I recently read some developments on 25's thread as her ex reminds me so much of mine. Mine is a cunning snake.... And yeah.... Will cut off his nose to spite his face as well.

I can't share the behind the scenes details of what's been goin on, but as I predicted when the divorce was triggered by ex, it hasn't been pretty and has actually been worse than I could have ever imagined. There are some days that I want to just inundate him with truth darts, truth daggers, and truth axes.... But I know it will fall on deaf ears and he'll just come up with a way to attack back. There's no point. So I bite my tongue, just as I have the last several years.


Even though we've been separated for so long, he literally still has zero Interest in anything I have to say. Which baffles me because I should be the one refusing to speak to him!!! It's ironic how they turn it all around. If he actually did stop and assess the situation outside of his anger, he'd realized I've only acted in defense this entire time. But his ego (narcissism?) continues to interfere with the real life happenings right in front of his eyeballs. Oh well... Sad for him.

So my legal journey marches onwards with little end in sight. Honestly, I hope my lawyer doesn't fire me as a client because he is getting involved in some pretty petty nonsense. I don't even want to engage in some of this craziness, however, I can't back down because ex will take it ALL. I'm sounding dramatic, but im truly walking through bizarro land right now with this d.

But all in all, I'm a-ok. I'm better without him. I still have some work to do in trying to get over the fact that my inlaws and former friends think I'm the monster. Thats just my ego talking and I have to learn to manage that, while reminding myself that I know my truth.

I'm also learning to be ok with it as I've accepted the fact that ex will never wake up. I will never get an apology or an "I may have made a mistake." He's going to be able to use the nasty divorce proceedings as the fuel to justify his reasons for leaving me.

You see.... Before.... He didn't really have a good reason to divorce me. He wasn't happy and he didn't love me. That's all on him. Our whole separation, I've been off doing my DB thing... Friendly neighbor, gal, 180's, working on myself. Literally, there's nothing he could say about me as I wasn't in his life at all! I was doing my thing and was very pleasant around him.

But now, I'm the greedy, stubborn, monster who is intentionally making his life miserable by dragging out this divorce because I refuse to roll over and allow him to dictate how my future is going to pan out. I gave all I had to this marriage and he expected me to walk away with nada.

So, that above gets to be his narrative now. And it kills me that it is HIS outlandish behavior is the reason why I had to take a firm stance in not letting him direct the outcome of the divorce. Some people just have a way to spin things that there's literally no way to escape it. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. It's weird how he has that ability to spin everything in that manner and makes me thankful to not be married to that anymore. This similar dynamic existed in the marriage, but it was so subtle. In time, the gas lighting, put downs, weird spins on my feelings, all took its toll. With all this distance, I see it now and I thank god I'm out of it!

Anyway, I'm rambling a bit. Just wanted to come in here and share a bit and also send you all the very best during this busy holiday season.

Be well.

[bttrfly]

{{{{{Pax}}}}}

I know. You're in the worst of it. Know that this will not last forever, although it may feel like that. Hang in there Pax. I'm sorry you're going thru this xoxoxo

Try to think of it as a massive culling the herd - people who didn't really know you and don't deserve you ... still hurtful, I know.

I hope you have a beautiful peaceful holiday. xoxoxo

[Pax_luv]

Hugs right back at you, Bttrfly! I hope you have a wonderful holiday season and are staying warm and cozy.

Oddly enough, I really am ok. His craziness and his anger is his to own (tx for this mantra, Sotto) and has nothing to do with me. I see him hanging on to these excuses for dear life because if he didn't have this crutch, he would have to face the mess he's single handedly made (specifically in terms of the divorce) and it would be really tough pill for anyone to swallow.

So I use my lawyer... Though he's super expensive, and I hope all the monstering fares well for me in the end. Literally nothing I can do except keep living my life with integrity. That's it.

The last couple years I haven't been much in the holiday spirit, but this year I'm really filled with a ton of gratitude for all these new special rocks I have in my life. I really have surrounded myself with good people who are filled with depth and substance. It's incredible. So... I'm currently listening to holiday jazz music in my office which is filled with the scent of fresh pine from some christmas tree branches. Gosh... All is good.

Of course, I've said it before and I'll say it again, and again and again... I Continue to be grateful for this board and everyone on it. A million times, thank you.

Xoxo.

[Gordie]

Pax,

You sound so happy and at ease. I am glad you are enjoying the holiday season and leaving your MLCer to his own devices.

[Sotto]

Hi Pax, I'm glad to read this update - it sounds like you are in a pretty good place all things considered - so go you!!

Funny, your comment about 'it's his to own' - I think I may have mentioned that one a number of times. I can't really take any credit for that as I'm sure I've picked it up from another, wiser poster along the way.

I'm sorry that the D process continues to be difficult. It's well worth maintaining a strong sense of what is worth fighting for and what to back away from. For me it was the formula - We take total assets, you leave with what you brought in, so do I and we split the rest 50/50. Quite how we got to the formula, I didn't care - but that's what we ended up with. Every circumstance is different, but it's best to maintain that helicopter view as much as you can & I'm sure you do.

Otherwise - relax and enjoy the festive season! Xxx

[Pax_luv]

Thank you, Gordie! I appreciate your sentiments. I'm standing in your corner rooting for you!

Thank you, Sotto! Yea, you mentioned it many times and while I heard you, it's finally sinking in. I don't want to be anywhere near his crazy! It's all on him. I just need to manage myself.

I could only dream to get to an agreement that is similar to the formula that you and your ex used. Let me tell ya, the sky would be falling if ex ever got to that place. That's all I've been trying for this whole time, but we're still at the juncture of what's mine is his, what's his is his, and what's ours is his. It's crazy.

Actually, we had an email interaction recently and when logic is placed forth that kind of forces him to have to agree with it, he makes up a new rule to kind of punish me. He just makes sh*t up as he goes along to ensure that he still feels in complete control while giving me a little "check" to ensure I know my place.

It's funny sometimes. I just want to blurt out, "what planet are you on?!!?!"
Oh well..... Yes, Gordie, I'll be leaving him to his own devices.

Enjoy the weekend everyone! Happy holidays!

[job]

pax,

Your h doesn't have a clue what planet he's on and he most likely would look at you w/those deer in the headlights look. LOL!

I think you are doing very well w/your situation. Hang in there as 2018 will hopefully be a better year for you.

Happy Holidays to you and your family.

[pinn]

Great mind set Pax! You sound like you are in a great spot mentally.

I think we are both on to bigger and better things in 2018 ;-)!

[OwnIt]

Pax, I have to deal with someone similar so I know how awful it is when the person you loved has to let you know all the time how much they dislike you and how beneath them you are. I just have to keep reminding myself that it is his disorder and it can't take away my experience. Best to you in getting to the other side.

[Coly23]

Wow Pax, your H is really clutching at straws to make you seem like the bad guy! Too bad you have a handle on what he is up to!

I hope 2018 brings you more peace and happiness! Happy Christmas Oax! X

[job]

Merry Christmas!

[Pax_luv]

Hi all! Happy day after Xmas!

Thank you for the support and holiday sentiments, Job, Pinn, Own, and Coly. Appreciate you all!

So, it's morning time where I live and I'm sitting around enjoying my coffee with mom's homemade Christmas cookies. This is probably one of my favorite rituals during the holiday season. I just feel so relaxed... Got my pup snuggled up next to me. Life is really good.

The third christmas without ex was a success. He barely popped into my mind all day. I had such a great, fun, festive day yesterday and I wondered if he even would miss this sort of thing. That was the only time I thought of him.

so, here on the DB boards, we often hear that MLCers have narcissistic tendencies. I've seen this a ton in my ex especially throughout the d process. While I don't feel comfortable diagnosing my ex with any condition (other than MLC), I thought I would do some research on the aspect of divorcing someone with narcissism.

Needless to say, there is a ton of research out there on the subject! I'm shocked (and yet not shocked at all).

Pretty crazy how the studies have outlined the EXACT same things I'm going through in my D. The manipulation, psychological warfare, the deceit with funds. Wow! Just like there's an MLC script, there's a script for the narcissist's behavior during a divorce as well. His behavior has literally checked all the boxes.

This discovery (I've been reading on the subject for just over a week) has actually helped me. At my core, I'm not OK being the bad guy. And all this reading helps to reassure me that I'm doing the right thing. I'm not a bad guy, and no matter what, he is going to blame me and play victim.... No matter what.

The crazy way they learn to manipulate the legal system is what gets me because that's where I'm at right now. I swear, it's like these psychologists have been following me around the last year. So spot on.

It's just weird to me that 2.5 years ago, I started reading on the board... At the time I was so in love with my ex still. The agony of being discarded and stomped on was almost too much to endure, but I was committed to saving my marriage because I thought it was worth it and we could work out our differences with some effort. But now, this kind of feels like my divorce, I need to be freed of this man. I must. For my own sanity.

Anyway, it was weird to stumble on the research, but it was nice to get some validation of what has been going on the last year.

Hmmm. Back to Christmas cookies and pup snuggles, because that's what is important right now.

Hope you all have a lovely day! Be well

[bttrfly]

hi Pax Merriest of merries to you and pup. You've inspired me to read more on narcissism and parenting specifically.

thank you!!

xoxoxo

[bttrfly]

Happy New Year Pax!

I hope this year brings you peace, joy, love and all good things!
xoxo

[Pax_luv]

Hi DB land,

Hope you're all well.

Just checking in with another non-update. Been reading along and I feel for every one and what many of our posters are going through. It's been a rough-go.

I'm tired. I want this divorce done with and put behind me. I can't take this craziness anymore. Ex doesn't get to me, but the situation does and I just want to be free.

I had a bit of a dip last week in regards to my sitch and I've been carrying around this stress that just won't go away. I had my first migraine on Friday morning which was a scary experience. I thought I had just worked out too hard in the morning, but got kind of spooked when my vision got blurry and swirly. Stupid me thought it was no big deal. The pre-cursor passed pretty quicky, I went to work and then was immediately hit with this insane headache and nausea. Went home and slept it off. I hope it was a one time thing. It was not fun. I feel weird still....kind of cloudy like I haven't recovered it from yet, but I'm functioning as usual. Just not 100% myself. I hope it wasn't triggered by the stress I'm under with the divorce.

I'm not a fighter. I'm not aggressive. I'm fair and honest in nature. I don't have drama in my life. It's just not me. But with ex.... I feel like all I'm doing is fighting. Fighting for fairness, Disputing lies, and working really hard to not get sucked into his nonsense. Ugh. It's crazy. I've spent my day working on more legal stuff, working on legal statements, etc. I just hate reliving this.

Had a convo with my lawyer about it. In my gut, this isn't me, but I have no choice but to put all my energy into playing defense. I was telling him, I can't believe I have to do this and go down this route I don't want to go in, but I have no choice. I'm still dealing with a bully. Even my lawyer is getting fed up with ex's shenanigans.

Ugh. Well, I know that was kind of vague. I'm just stressed over this. It just won't go away and I'm exhausted. Pllleeeaaaaasssseeee. I just want to be free.

HaWho... If you're reading along... Know I'm thinking about you often. I even shed a few tears. Nobody deserves to be treated like this. You're strong, you can handle this..... It's just all very familiar. At the beginning of the divorce process I went through EVERYTHING you are going through. His mantra is- If you're not with him, you're against him and he will do everything to make sure you lose. Please take care of yourself.

All in all, I personally am ok. Just coming here for a place to release. Very thankful this place exists and thankful for all of you.

[bttrfly]

{{{{{{{Pax}}}}}}}
I'm so sorry the stress is taking such a toll on you physically and emotionally. I wish you could get a break from the crazy.

Check out what I posted on HaWho's thread about loving kindness. It might help xoxoxoxoxo

[HaWho]

Pax - please do not say you have non - updates. I am just at the "on your mark, get set, GO!" part and the stress is just crazy. I wish you could post more of the details but understand their are confidentiality details to this process.

Whatever you need to do to recharge, do. Best not to roll over as you are entitled to certain things no matter what your stbx says. Fight to the finish and get what is fair.

Please take time out to take care of you, however that may be. I think my sitch will very soon be like yours...

[Pax_luv]

Hi bttrfly, thanks for the tips on loving kindness. I did go back and read your notes. I do think it's time for me to focus on some meditation. I was pretty good at it for a while.... And like most things, once you start to feel better, you don't think you need it anymore! Must keep putting energy into my emotional and mental wellbeing because it does pay off! In fact, I'm writing this from bed with my lavender diffuser on so I can unwind. My goal has been to go to bed much earlier so I can try to get 8 hours of sleep and wake up earlier. I find that most nights I still only get 5 hours of sleep... My fit bit tells me so! I know I toss and turn a lot, plus I've got some anxiety. Ugh.... Such a work in progress!

Hawho, thanks for your words. This board always helps me to stay grounded and i will keep up the good fight to move towards something that is fair. I MUST learn to look after myself.

Maybe in time I'll be able to share some of the details of the legal side of the sitch. For my own protection, I just have to keep things confidential for now. That sounds crazy saying that, but knowing my ex he may even sue me if he knew I was sharing vague details of our past life together.

Anyway, this all leads me to another one of the byproducts of this experience that I'm dealing with. its kind of hard to explain, but I'm hyper aware of my feelings about this. So here goes....long stream of consciousness comin at ya......

Post marriage, I'm finding myself really intimidated and scared of men whom I perceive to have any authority over me.

I don't have these feelings with men whom I've known for many years and are big shot CEO's etc. its men that I'm newly coming in contact with.

Here's two examples- I'm intimidated by my lawyer and my personal trainer. Specifically, im nervous that my lawyer thinks I'm stupid. And I'm anxious that my personal trainer thinks I'm not good enough to be training with him. I keep thinking that they are judging me.

As I type that, I feel sad. I never used to be this way. I keep digging deep to see if there's some childhood crap in there, but I just relate it to my marriage. My ex was very authoritative in my life for many years. I met him when I was young and since he had more life experience than me, I probably leaned on him more than I should have. It became a very bad dynamic as he was completely controlling... But it was very subtle controlling....this subtle control changed me over time. (Basically because I was pretzeling myself into oblivion trying to please and appease him.).

All of a sudden I became so far removed from myself that I literally had no idea who I was anymore. I've shared some of that before.... Where I couldnt even make a decision to help myself because no matter what I chose I would be wrong.... So I would become kind of paralyzed.

I guess the good news is, I recognize this and I'm trying to work through it, but I'm also frustrated that there's so much more damage to my psyche that I've probably not uncovered yet.

I want to be in a healthy relationship and have a healthy marriage someday and yet I get down on myself that maybe I'm not as together as I want to be and I don't know if I'll ever be the healthy partner.

I don't know... Maybe I need to pick up IC again. Or maybe I just need to keep embracing the uncomfortableness and it will help me move past it. My last IC kept telling me that I was never going to be good enough for my ex... And now im thinking that I need to get some help in learning that I'm good enough period and I can't be afraid of men!

Also, it would be nice to have a good man in my life who likes me for me. Not that I need a man to validate my worthiness.... But it would be nice for a little somethin somethin.... Ya know?!


Grrrrrrr. This is so frustrating. The work continues.......

[bttrfly]

HI Pax,
We're all works in progress my dear! I seem to have the opposite PTSD response: if a man gets the slightest bit bullying with my I fight right back and give him h3!! - I just won't tolerate it at all.

While it's nice to stand up for oneself, perhaps a bit of moderation would be in order, in my case anyway

It's ok to be where you are right now - you didn't become this way overnight and it will take a while to move through all the emotions and sort it all out. You can do it! Just be gentle with yourself in the mean time xoxoxo

[pinn]

I guess the good news is, I recognize this and I'm trying to work through it, but I'm also frustrated that there's so much more damage to my psyche that I've probably not uncovered yet.

I want to be in a healthy relationship and have a healthy marriage someday and yet I get down on myself that maybe I'm not as together as I want to be and I don't know if I'll ever be the healthy partner.

Also, it would be nice to have a good man in my life who likes me for me. Not that I need a man to validate my worthiness.... But it would be nice for a little somethin somethin....

Hey ya Pax! Good to see you posting!

I think recognizing you feel this way is half the battle...seriously. Like bfly says, we all have issues here. I’m certainly damaged mainly due to ex in more ways than one. It is hard to get through and fix. But once you realize it, then you can work on it. I’ve never been to an IC so I do not know what that’s like. But if you think that will help, I encourage you to go. You have already done a tooooon of work and you should be proud of how far you have come. You just have this one last hurdle to get over... you got this!

Oh, by the way, with the route you are taking in terms of dating and your next relationship, I feel pretty confident in saying that you will find a man who loves you (yes loves not like!) for who you are. By that I mean you seem to be taking your time, not jumping into anything and really learning about yourself. That is an important step that a lot of people miss going through this process. I know it is cliche, but you have to learn to love yourself first.

Just keep on keeping on Pax! You are doing great!

And when in doubt, just repeat and remember... “I’m good enough. I’m smart enough. And gosh darn it... people like me.” ;-)

[Sotto]

Hi Pax, it sounds like you are generally doing well and working your way through things. And you have come a long way already too.

As for someone else liking you? This has been a big 'win' area for me. Still a work in progress, but I seem to be managing to lose the significant need for approval I once had. Regardless of how my relationship (didn't) work out, I'm okay. I think I am attractive, kind and intelligent. What's not to like??!!

Yes, not everyone is going to think I'm great, but I'm okay with me and they may or may not choose to spend time with me - and all my joys, faults and flaws and precious uniqueness too...

I think you are on a good path with the Brene work, and if an IC will help you work through a little more, then go for it. And as for your ex and how he behaved. How he took control and was critical - that's all about him..

Xx

[Surv1ve]

Coly -- I think you have at least 2 kids, the one you gave birth to and your MLC!

[Pax_luv]

Thanks everyone for the support and guidance.

I know I'm in a bit of a dip with this whole processing, but I'm doing my best. It's just frustrating.

I'm actually no closer to the D than I was a year ago. Can you believe it? Not an inch closer. I was going through some documents realizing that I'm exactly where I was a year ago. So crazy.

So... Yeah I'm stressed and anxious and I'm doing everything possible to move through it. I know that this is all part of the processing. And I recognize that with each blip, I move farther along.

After my last post, I had a dream where I had to give ex's eulogy. In this dream, I wasn't my best self. I just went up to the alter and laid it out on the table. How difficult it was to love him, how unhappy he was with his life and everyone in it. How he talked poorly about everyone in the room, how he was a liar and a snake. How I loved him... Even when I shouldn't have.... Even when loving him compromised myself. He was exhausting.

It was sad and cathartic. Honestly, I wasn't sure if he was dead or if he was dead to me. Hmmm.

So, now I'm dealing with some sadness, stress, anger over something else. I've been here before, but I'm just scared that I might not have biological children someday. It just feels like every day, it slips further and further away. Now, I know not everything is set in stone, but typically after 35... It's a crapshoot. There's nothing I can do.... Except get knocked up by a stranger or find a sperm donor! But seriously, I'm taking vitamins that "may" help with reproductive health. But it's all I got, on top of a generally healthy lifestyle.

Now let's get real... Of course I can adopt or maybe I'll find someone who has kids already and I can be a great step mom, but for right now in this moment, I'm so depressed over this ticking time bomb.

I'm trying to get better. I recently started "a course in miracles" (hope I can say that name here... It has nothing to do with marriage).... But I have the book and get the audio lessons delivered to my email every day. It is good. Tricky but good. Just trying to elevate myself and my overall existence. Every day is a chance to keep practicing the lessons.

Hmm. That's all I got. Just chugging along minute by minute these days. I know it will get better.... Just takes time.

Hope you all have a great week!

[Pax_luv]

Oh my goodness! Haven't posted in quite a while! Hello

I continue to read along, but rarely have time to post these days.

Life goes on. I'm finding myself increasingly angry towards ex and all that he has put me through. I want to say that I hate him, but that would be extremely childish of me and truth is I don't hate anyone. I know I'm supposed to send him off with love and light, but the truth is, I want him to suffer.... Bad. That's terrible of me to say, but it's the God honest truth. I've never willed this on anyone before. But he does have evil running through his veins. I know now, more than ever, MLC or not, there was never any room for me in that relationship.

I have more court dates coming up, more money to shell out, more lies to endure, etc but relatively I'm doing ok. The anger comes in waves and sometimes it hits me like a ton of bricks. Just happened this morning actually.

I've been working on an industry- changing project for the last year and it finally went live today. I poured my heart and soul into this thing as well as a ton of personal sacrifice but it was worth it because I'm helping people live healthier and happier lives. It was such a meaningful morning.... Then I went back to my office and BAM.... The emotions came rushing in- how could he be so evil? How could he lie so much? How does he not have a shred of morose? How can he think this is my doing? How is he still the victim? How could I be replaced? How does he not miss me or what he had? How can he not be sorry?

We all know the song and dance. I must take the focus off him and stay the path, but darn if it isn't hard. 3 years into this mess and it still gets to me.

In other news.... I continue to keep stacking up goals and gal activities for myself. It's gotten to the point where it is second nature. Been seriously contemplating going back to school for a second masters.... Just have to come across a couple tens of thousands of dollars. (Hehe... I laugh as I type that). But in all seriousness, I wish this was something I pursued right after bd, it would have been a great distraction. I could be halfway to a doctorate by now! Oh well.... Live and learn.

That's all I got folks... I wish you all peace and strength! Keep on keepin on!

[Pax_luv]

Oh!!! One more thing. I had a good friend have a courageous talk with me the other day. She was worried that I wasn't doing enough for my personal life (I have a tendency to serve others more). Basically, she knows how badly I want children of my own someday and the clock is ticking and she is scared that I might miss the window of opportunity if im not actively trying to be in a relationship.

Ugh. That was hard to hear. (And we don't have to get into the semantics of relationship =fulfillment) but she is right. I Dated for a bit and had a great time, but now I have other priorities and I don't have the energy to date.... Especially with the added pressure of finding a baby daddy! (Rolls eyes)

[bttrfly]

Ok, there are plenty of ways to get kids ... and you don't have to jump into a relationship to do so.

I think while your friend was well-intentioned, perhaps the topic was a bit precipitous given all you have currently on your plate.

Anyway ... breathe .. and congrats on the work project!! xoxoxo

[Pax_luv]

Thanks bttrfly. Xoxoxo.

Feeling better.

Yesterday was a bit of rainy day so I stayed in and did some damage online shopping. noooooooo!!! One of my New Years resolutions was to not buy any unnecessary items of clothing. Well.... I made it to March 10. Bleh.

Ive been purging the last couple of years and I shared how I'm trying to implement the kon Mari method. But I just can't get the hang of tidying up everyday! I always let things get chaotic during the week (dishes, laundry) and then spend my weekend taking care of my chores. Such a bad habit that I need to break.

Anyway, I've been trying for years to get my clothes and shoes under control. I used to have job(s) that required many different outfits so I often had 4 different wardrobes going at once. One of my jobs required that I be up to date in terms of fashion and I always had to have put-together outfits. Anyway... I don't need all this stuff now! I mostly wear suits/ Blazers/dresses to work and am in sweats or gym clothes on the weekend. Everything else is unecessary and complete excess. I did go through spurts of buying new clothes when I was dating, but those aren't getting used right now either!

Long story short- My apparel is something that I want to stay on top of, and I feel really guilty when I buy new clothes...I just got the urge to do some shopping yesterday. I got a little bit of a bonus at work which is why I justified it.... But even then I needed that money!!! With $3000 monthly lawyer bills... I definitely don't need clothes.

So this morning, I got up and started getting rid of stuff to make room for the new items. One thing I decided to do was clear my closet of anything my ex got me. Sweaters, hats, lingerie.... All gone! It took me a while to get to that point (almost 3 years to be exact!) And as I was shoving the items into the donate or toss bags, I did so with a huge smile. Feels good to continue to rid him of my life. I think, at this point in time, anything that reminds me of him just brings about bad energy. Time to clear my life of that! So, I'll take that as a win.... A little pricey win.... But a win no-less &#128521;

Hope you all have a pleasant week!

[kml]

I hear you on getting rid of the things the ex bought you! I never made a concerted effort to do that but definitely found myself a bit put off when I would pull out an item that was from him. I think most of those things are gone now but I think I'll do a search when I get home!

(Odd story - when my ex finally left, he announced it to me in November but I made him agree to stay through the holidays so the kids wouldn't permanently associate Xmas with their parents divorce. He gave me a pair of emerald earrings for Xmas. What an idiot! Did he think I would wear them in remembrance of him when he was abandoning the marriage and stomping on my heart???? I never did wear them once and ended up giving them away to the singer in the band I played in. She didn't know him do there were no negative connotations for her. )

Come to think of it, I should go through my jewelry box and make sure there's nothing left there from him. (Don't worry - nothing of any particular value).

As for the house cleaning - the Fly Lady books and websites are good. But what keeps me on track is having a cleaning lady that comes every two weeks - I have to pick my clutter up before she comes, keeps me from getting overwhelmed with disorder.

[Pax_luv]

Oh KML- your story! Our exes and their guilt gifts. Bleh. So crazy. My ex was not thoughtful with gifts because he did not believe in sentimentality. It would drive me crazy that we would go into a store and he would pick out the first thing he saw without any thought as who the recipient was. Ok- in some respects it doesn't sound that bad.... But it drove me nuts that he didnt actually want to give a gift, he did so out of obligation. (Hmmmm the only thing he felt obliged to do)
Anyway, the last gifts I got from him were the most thoughtful things I ever received from him. He actually thought of ME. They weren't extravagant, but he found items I would appreciate and enjoy (in my style too). It was a first.... And then he dumped me.

Also, thanks for the house tidying tips. When my divorce is final and finances are stable, I will definitely get a housekeeper to help with the deep cleaning stuff! That will be great!

So.... On to a question.....

Things were a little too quiet in the ex's camp, so I was suspecting that something was up. On Monday morning, I woke up with a sense of something coming my way. Sure enough, I was right. Ex is up to his litigious self.

He reminds me of a super villain who rages at the drop of a pin. I imagine him a monster yelling things like--- "how dare you cross me?!?!?! I'll show you.... You'll rue the day you defied me!!!!"

What do I do about this? Obviously I can't disclose any more than this because he would sue me and I can't afford any new lawyer fees!

While it is emotionally stressful and draining, I'm not giving him or his craziness much head space, but I have had enough of his bs. I was talking to a friend about it and she asked, "why can't you just talk to him face to face about this?" Now on every day planet earth, of course that is the approach I would take a million times over. Afterall, it's hard to hate someone up close. But in MLC land, I think I just need to stand my ground and keep digging in and refusing to succumb to his bullying tactics.

Am I correct in maintaining this solid approach? I refuse to budge just because his antics are rediculous.

What do you think? There's absolutely no point in trying to extend an olive branch in an attempt to have a reasonable dialogue with him, right?!

I think I know the answer.

Ohhhhh another day in the life.......

Be well, DB friends.

[pinn]

Ahhh man Pax! I feel so badly for you. Hugs and positive thoughts from the east coast!

I wish I could give you some advice but I haven’t dealt with a MLC’r myself. Hoping you get some great advice from the experts here!

What do ya’ll think of pax’s sitch???

[Sotto]

Hi Pax, I'm sorry things are still difficult for you. Know that you will get to the other side of this. This is a phase and it will also pass. The main thing is to look after yourself and take reasonable care of your own interests too.

The comment that stood out for me was around you refusing to budge because his antics are ridiculous. My best advice is to focus only on the big ticket areas. For me, I decided to let the smaller stuff go in the interests of achieving settlement. One of the 'smaller' items was that XH had spent £1000's on his new partner during our period of separation. But actually, we were lucky enough to have significant assets to divide. And whilst it was a bit galling at the time, I decided not to 'go there.'

Resolving things, and resolving them in a way you can live with - and rebuild a life with - are the primary aims here and it is best to always remember that. I was lucky enough that XH was reasonably amenable and things were resolved relatively quickly and without overt conflict - I'm lucky and feel grateful for that....

Take care and I hope things settle down for you soon xxx

[bttrfly]

know what you want. don't react. if it's worth digging in, then do so. if it's not, don't. he's a putz.

xxoxoxoo

[Pax_luv]

Pinn, Sotto, bttrfly, thank you so much for chiming in. I appreciate it.

Would you believe that we aren't even negotiating yet? Nope. This is all in reference to things he's demanding before all disclosures have been made and before any attempt at negotiating and settling.

It's crazy.

here's a fake example- him putting in a court order to make me agree that I do not want spousal support and will permanently agree that I want zero support from him. then his supplement arguments about why I specifically don't deserve spousal support....... Ie- I have a masters degree and I can support myself. And he was there with me while I got that masters degree and he emotionally suffered as a result. And then, I must have excess finances because I go to the gym and gym memberships cost money.

Meanwhile, in this fake scenario, he's also trying to get spousal support from me even though his earning potential was far greater due to the fact that he was older and made 5x more than me.

That's a terrible fake example.... But that is what I'm dealing with at all levels. I have 3 court dates in the span of 4 weeks to deal with this type of nonsense.

[Pax_luv]

Hey there,
Having a weird day and just checking in-
Lack of sleep+too much work+ burnout+ Financial worry+ divorce stress+calorie deficit+ PMS= Destructive combination!

I was really struck by cil's post about having the courage and opportunity to apologize to her ex. Thank you for sharing, Ciluzen. You had a conversation I could only dream of having. I think it takes a lot of courage to do what you did by apologizing to your xh.

As you may have read in my posts above, I contemplated (albeit briefly), to reach out to ex to try and clear the air. This divorce is just so out of hand and I want it over with. I'm really not in it to fight. I just don't think he'll ever hear me or see me. I've reiterated enough times that I only want what's fair but that's not enough for him. He thinks he gets to decide what's fair in our divorce and also decide what he gets to disclose and not disclose and that's not ok with me.

With this contemplation of perhaps reaching out to him, I also deal with the fact that I would like the opportunity to own up to what I did that may have contributed to the downfall of the marriage. I think this is a vital part of the healing stage. However, that true healing stage might not be for years down the line and I currently can't seem to separate what I did and what he did and what he continues to do. You know?

So... I wish I could go back and apologize for things that I could see could create heartache and damage for him, but I can't separate it from the current behavior. It's really tough. I want to say, I'm sorry for x,y,z and that I didn't support you when x,y,z happened..... And please explain to me how you've been defrauding me during our entire relationship. And why you lied to the court about x,y,z. And why you completely made up a false "testimony". And why you lied to me about x,y,z.


And then I cycle back and ask myself, why would I apologize for a relationship that wasn't real? In all my inward searching, I don't think there was ever a recipe that I could have concocted that would allow my ex to be satisfied with me. I just don't. Being in a relationship with him came at the expense of losing myself and pretzeling myself every darn day to make him happy. It was futile.

I think so much of this journey is about owning our "stuff" and I feel like I've been doing that and continue to seek opportunity to own my stuff in every day life. It's proven beneficial thus far and I know I am living at a different "vibration" as a result.... But now I'm in this terrible legal stalemate with ex and I want to do something to move it along, breakdown walls, and maybe even disarm him to the point that he remembers this is a divorce and this is what happens in a divorce.

I just don't know. I'm confused. I'm rambling. I spent the morning going through our wedding pictures..... Why? Who the heck knows? I'm just in a weird place of processing this and I'm tired. So tired, and wish there was something I could do to fix this. Not go back... But fix this current state so we can get divorced and I can move on with my life.

Hmmm now where's that emergency chocolate?

[ciluzen]

Hey Pax,

First off...you're welcome if my post was helpful to you in any way. I don't actually feel courageous, though. I was more...overwhelmed by emotion and understanding. As I said, the EFT seminar (actually an "externship") was such a deep experience...my program cohort is still talking about it. We needed all of the carbs that week...donuts and pizza were neeeeded; even for the strictly health oriented.

No one just does things to be mean. Behavior is often need-based. How we perceive things is usually based on how our experiences in our FOO family and life shaped our ideas of what is right or wrong; what is normal and acceptable; what is comfortable and uncomfortable to us. When our relationship is strained, it is usually because our needs are not being met in some way. We react to this in the ways that we learned to early on in our lives. If we were lucky enough to have learned good communication skills, we calmly confront and ask for what we want and need. If not, we do what we learned. We withdraw and avoid, even lie and stuff our feelings until they spill out as contempt and anger. Or we confront and attack, complain and blame in the name of being "honest" about our feelings. Trust or mistrust is often at the base of our core feelings. It can create feelings of loneliness and pain...can I trust my partner to see the real me and still love me? This mistrust hampers communication in the ways stated above. Our reactions to our partner's communication and mistrust may actually play into their fear, as they perceive things in our reactions that their experience tells them is untrustworthy and dangerous. Our reactions, however, are based on what WE have learned and perceive based on our own trust issues. It is then a shared dysfunction of trust and communication.

(Sigh). I believe going through the D is the hardest part of all. You both want to fix a problem, protect yourself emotionally, financially, mentally, and physically. But those memories of closeness and what was are there. Loss of what you had, materially and in your relationship and the anger and grief of the situation in the here and now. Regret and guilt, add that in. Oh, add to that a bit of fear of the future and "is this the right thing". Trust me...its hard on both of you. Divorce $u(k$ and it really is a process.

So, I had a point somewhere. Oh, yeah. Go through the D in whatever way works. You may have to give what you don't want to to get out quicker. Tell yourself you're a better person, martyr, taking the high road...whatever. Get it over with. Rip off the bandaid. Then just work on yourself, not just by doing "all the things" and setting and acheiving goals, but by listening to others and understanding why we people do the things we do. I'm going to sound like a hippy (no judgement), but learning to accept people faults and all and loving them anyway can change their view of self. Letting go of anger becomes easy when you realize anger helps no one. I figured that out very recently. VERY.

Unconditional love and understanding. Boom. Life changer. Then I was ready to talk to XH, without worrying about what he thought. I apologized to him for no other reason than to let him know I understood the pain I had caused him...finally. And to lighten my own load. Having that knowledge with no where to put it was going to burden me with a gut ache. So I offered it up with the apology and he accepted it. My apologizing helped him to feel finally heard and it eased both my anger at myself for hurting him and my ensuing guilt. I have more to aplogize for, but with understanding also comes the knowledge that he can only absorb so much at a time.

Warning: don't try this trick at home...and don't do it until you hear a "pop" when the realization that his anger is from his deepest pain:the disappointment that your relationship still made him feel alone and unheard; his need we all have to feel a real bond with another was unmet. And vice versa, but that's his part to figure out.

I'm realizing this is all a process. Its also very much like a twelve step program...as is DBing. Look it up (steps). It might be helpful.

Oh, and I probably ate all of your emergency chocolate. Was it dark? Its gone. My bad.

[Pax_luv]

Ciluzen,
Thank you for taking the time to write that all out. What you say is 100% correct... I want to believe that we are all sensitive beings and our actions are a reflection of hurt. And soooo much of this is about unmet needs.... Needs that we can't even verbalize or consciously acknowledge most of the time. Thank you again for sharing your knowledge and perspective.

So, ex wants to bifurcate the marriage now so he can return to single status ahead of the divorce actually being processed. There's a chance we're going to go to trial over our joint assets because he's trying to prove I don't own my house even though I'm on the deed and the mortgage. He's trying to show that my money only went towards household expenses and not the house therefore I have no rights to it. Ps-I am in a community property state and if the above is true.... That was NEVER an agreement we had.... He just had some super magical accounting since he managed all the bills.

So, as of now, he wants to burfucate the marriage so he can move on past this horribly emotional thing.

And I'm left scratching my head. This is what he wanted... Why is he still blaming me? I was the one (shamefully) begging trying to keep us together and HE is he one who can't play in the sandbox he created for himself.

I go crazy wondering if it's true or not. Does he actually feel hurt? Is this just a manipulation? (Probably yes- it's a total manipulation) but If it's real pain, is there anything I can do to provide clarity? I know I can't solve his problems for him, but in real life I would never ever deliberately cause pain to someone. And I do wonder if he feels he made a mistake with all this and will never be able to own up to it.... So he just has to create the destruction to justify his feelings. Our divorce has become a runaway train.

Either way.... It's really tough.... And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

[Pax_luv]

Hello all,
Not sure if my posting is going to make it through.... But I have some news....

I'm divorced. Actually, I'm legally considered single.

So crazy. I wasn't expect this to happen today, but it did. I'm not sure how I feel about it.

My charming ex out in a court order to bifurcate the marriage ahead of the asset division and financial disclosures.... The reason: he just wants to move on with his life.

To be honest, I'm shocked that the judge signed off on it. The reason the case hasn't moved was because he hasn't submitted a single financial document. So he's the reason it's being held up..... Shocked the judge was like... Ok.

So... Time to shake myself off and move on as a single person with zero financial/ asset elements squared away. So technically.... I can't move on because I have no money to do so! Ok let's be real... Yes I am more than fine. I'm happy, healthy, I've progressed well over the last 3 years... But.....

I'm just not sure how he continues to move on from this completely unscathed. Completely. Completely. Completely unscathed. He really sets himself up to be untouchable and it's always worked out in his favor.

[job]

Yes, your posting made it thru the glitch.

I'm sorry how things turned out, but you'll feel a weight lifted off your shoulders in the coming days. You don't realize just how much stress you've been under and now you don't have to be looking over your shoulder or waiting for the other to shoe to drop all of the time.

You are and will continue to be fine. It's one step at a time. As for your xh, it will catch up with him one day and it'll be too late because you will have moved on and he'll be stuck in the same old place of going absolutely no where fast.

[bttrfly]

Pax, don't waste precious time on this bum.

Do what you can legally to get the financials done.

Live the life you've been given back with all zest, freedom and joy that the universe can dispense and let whatever bad karma go to the person creating it. You're well out of a bad situation. It's only money - not your sanity, health, etc.

xoxoxo

[devvo]

I'm in exactly the same position. Divorced without a property settlement. Who on earth in the legal world comes up with these rules?!?!

XH is dragging his heels getting the settlement done and squared away. This, from the man who raced at breakneck speed to get me out of his life. He literally could not wait to erase me from his life - and now look where we are.

I sometimes wonder if he really is in MLC, so it's things like this that signpost it for me. He doesn't want me, but he doesn't seem to want to let me move out from what he thinks is his control. I guess all we can do is stir things up from time to time and hope like mad we don't unleash a hornet's nest.

[Pax_luv]

Hello DB friends,
Been a long while since I've posted. I still pop in when I can to get caught up, but haven't Had time to formulate any responses. Things should calm down soon, I hope. In the meantime, I hope you are well.

I've been thinking about ex husband for a few weeks now and I've gotten to the point where I may need some advice.

This is a very serious topic and not one I take likely, so here goes.....
What do you know about MLCers and suicide? Any particular warning signs?
I've read tons and tons on MLC and depression.
Here's the background on why I'm asking---

If you've followed along with my sitch you will know that ex is a mastermind when it comes to financial evasions.

One of my biggest fears during separation was that I knew ex really well and knew he would do ANYTHING not to lose. He was a "cut off his nose to spite his face" kind of guy.

Well, all my fears have come to fruition and it has been a nightmare of a divorce. It wasn't until the last few months that the court has intervened and told him to stop playing games. He also had financial sanctions placed on him.

Even with court orders, he is refusing to comply and I think he may be getting seriously backed into a corner. He can no longer stack lies on lies on lies and he has to start coming clean. I fear he may even be put in jail for contempt.

Knowing what I know of him, I have this underlying fear that suicide may be an option for him.... And when it pops up in my mind, I immediately push it aside and make excuses for my thoughts---- saying I'm just paranoid, recognizing that I will always love him and have concern for his wellbeing, etc. And I keep telling myself that for all I know he could be blissfully alright with everything and this divorce could be no more than nuisance he must deal with.

Here's the deal- I have zero insight into his life and I have no idea if he is happy. I dont know who is in his life right now and if they actually care for him (he's a really tough person to be around and not someone you can get close to). He's been depressed before and was on antidepressants. This was before I met him (not sure if it was after he left his first wife or before), his older brother died of a drug overdose when ex was a pre teen, though my ex thought it was intentional. This scarred him deeply. My ex talked about suicide and always said he would never do it because he was too chicken (he never attempted). He has guns. He had even written a poem about suicide before we were together and I had seen it, though I don't remember the context. He had meds for anti anxiety and claustrophobia. He had a huge fear of being trapped. Trapped in elevators, relationships, jobs, etc.

when we were married, he did not have a close relationship with his family. He had cut-off relatives (and vice versa) on both his moms and dads side of the family. He had surface-level relationships with his parents and sister and bro in law, but complained about them all. He seriously didn't have anything nice to say about any of them.

They also reiterated to me how difficult it was to be with him and told me I was a saint for putting up with him.

When we separated, they all cut me out completely, Clearly it runs in the family.

So, at the end of the day, unless this divorce has forced him to make changes and make amends with his family, I don't know if anyone is looking out for him and genuinely cares for him. I don't know if there's anyone in his life who would catch on to any warning signs (if he's displaying any to them).

With suicide being in the news a lot this past week... I can't help but get a sinking feeling in my gut. Ex is backed into a corner, he is probably feeling trapped and needs to find a way out. What is he going to do? Is he going to come clean so we can officially part ways of will he continue to evade? How much more evading can he do?

What I've stated above are major red flags, but im going off my relationship with him from the past. This is just me using insight into what I KNEW about him, as I know nothing about him now. His current actions certainly don't represent someone a-ok with their life.

We don't have a relationship at all. actually, up until about a month ago, he and I had not spoken to each other face to face in over a year and half and we were forced to over a dog issue. Since then, there has been zero contact again.

I've seriously considered writing him an email and just plainly asking him if he's ok. I've thought about asking him when I drop off the dog (I never actually see him). I'm not sure what to do or if I'm making something up. Truth is, I don't know who he is anymore. Maybe I am just paranoid.

Thoughts?

[ciluzen]

Hey Pax.
It sounds like you have been thinking a lot about this and are concerned. What you say makes sense and could very well be a possibility. The question is, what can or are you willing to do about it?

I hear the concern that you have for him as a fellow human being and as a person that you once loved intensely, and even as someone you still care about on some level after all that has happened. With all that is in the news and the inability to have that deep, intimate discussion with him due to the circumstances surrounding your relationship at this time, it sort of leaves you feeling concerned yet powerless. The fact is, with someone who is even in a loving relationship and is open about their feelings of wanting to die, it may not be possible for another to change their mind. It may happen anyway. You never know how strong the negative voice in someone's head is or how convincing.

With that said, what are you willing to do to to involve yourself in his life to ease your own mind? You could alert his family by saying just what you are saying now and include some resource literature in whatever means of notification you choose. You could reach out to him directly with your concerns, however that might be used against you or affect him in an unintended way. You could share your thoughts with your attorney and see what she/he suggests.

I have had those concerns, as well, about my own XH for quite a while. I was particularly concerned when he was going through his emergency health issues last summer.I was able to voice them to my daughters to alert them (they speak to him more often, for obvious reasons), but I'm at a place where I can still check in on him and listen.

If you are up to it, go ahead and ask him how he is doing. Sometimes all of the anger someone shows is coming from a source of pain and hurt and a feeling that they are unloveable. If you don't feel that anyone could honestly love you, then why would you believe that people who say they love you are honest? If they are not honest, then they are lying to you and it follows that they are after something from you to use you or hurt you. Its easier to be angry than to acknowledge the feeling of unworthiness. But its usually there. And that's the danger.So, with all that is going on, you might go ahead and show that you are concerned about him. Ask him how he is. You may get"fine" as your answer. Its up to you to ask further.

Divorce really can bring out the worst in people when fears and lack of understanding take over, and sometimes things are exacerbated by those "helping" the process. Good on you for looking past the anger of the process and still being able to see the person in the STBX. And for wanting to help him.You are pretty good at this "humanity" thing.

[ciluzen]

Oops. I'm embarassed to say I forgot your D was final. Sorry! So, totally disregard the attorney stuff. You're still good at the humanity thing, though.

[Pax_luv]

Hi there,
devvo- I missed your post before- you, too, are divorced without the property settlement? Ugh. Makes me sick. My ex gets to move on with his life and I'm still stuck because I need the money that is tied up in the house. Couple this with the insane lawyer bills and I'm super strapped at the moment. I'm left scratching my head.

Ciluzen, thank you for chiming in with your words. You always give me a lot to think about. I've thought about the level to which I want to get back involved in his life and truth is- I dont. Nor does he want to hear from me. like I mentioned, I don't think he has anyone truly looking out for him and it makes me Sad for him and I think (know) he is someone who goes to extremes to get out of sticky situations.

It's kind of weird because as soon as I made the last post, I finally got a tiny bit of progress with the financials. He finally disclosed some of his stuff! Court orders, sanctions, and 21 months later.... He FINALLY shared some financials. Not all, just some.
And, as suspected, he was cooking his books. Hopefully the CPA can catch on to this as I just want a clear picture. It made me slightly less compassionate towards him for the moment... But thank you, ciluzen, for thinking I have some humanity! I just think he is going to have to suffer the consequences eventually. Hopefully he chooses the honorable way out and just fesses up. It's not like I'm the Feds pressing charges. I'm his ex wife.

[job]

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Divorce and Acceptance part 3