When I was going through my own D, a member here used to club me mercilessly with a 2x4...
You have to realize that your M, as it was, is gone. No wishing or hoping is going to change that. Ask yourself... is that what you really want? If you you do reconcile w/ your H, then it is going to be a new beginning and none of what has happened in the past is going to have a place in the new future.
No amount on conciliation is going to change his mind about coming back. You have to make the best deal for you and not take his "feelings" into consideration. Right now, he is not on your team and is only looking out for his interests.
His ideas that this D was your idea is him gaslighting you. Don't fall for this. You know the truth and so does he. He seems to be trying to rewrite the history of this. Do not let him. He needs to be reminded that that this was his idea and that he was the one that initiated it.
“Things turn out best for the people who make the best out of the way things turn out” ― Art Linkletter
2x4 appreciated, MrCAS. I know my M is dead. I know my H is not the same man. I know he lies and cheats and steals.
Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression though. D was his idea. He filed. He has never said it was mine, just failed to engage with his own process and whined about how it has made him more 'ill'. I have not responded to that other than via my L saying that his health is no longer my business. I have no idea what he thinks or feels about anything. I assume he lies about everything. I think the process is forcing him to see some reality about his own actions and consequences that he doesn't much like, but I don't spend time thinking about it.
I am past the stage where the word 'divorce' makes me gulp with shock. I can do the logical D thing. My weakness? I miss the man I knew (but I know he's dead). And I am still sometimes horrified by the WTF chaos the new version has made of his life and mine. It is a horrible mess (but not my horrible mess).
Me: 53 H:38 T:20 M:14 BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression S 1/16 PA 4/16 H filed 1/17
Actually just read this post by 25 in another thread. I think this is where my head and actions are, and why I see the D as being a good thing for me, MrCAS. My heart misses who he was, but even my heart doesn't want to be married to a self-destructive liar, a thief and a cheat who lacks the courage to own his own s**t. I'm sorry that the man who loved me unravelled into this, but being sorry doesn't change the reality of what he is now.
"Our choice is pretending to be married to an unstable dishonest cheating man- or to divorce him."
Our M wasn't perfect - whose is? - but tbh, we never got the chance to even look at that because he imploded and ran away. The WTF mess is his responsibility. Our M is a shared one. And no, I'm not thinking about reconciliation. I just can't see it as remotely possible from here and even thinking about the effort involved is exhausting. I'd rather miss my H than deal with more MLC WTF from who he is now. But I do miss him and I am sad about what has happened. NC helps a lot which is why I said no to his recent 'chatting' plan!
Me: 53 H:38 T:20 M:14 BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression S 1/16 PA 4/16 H filed 1/17
Yesterday was the first day I have felt hatred and anger. And back to anxiety, mostly about money. Gosh, this dropping the rope stuff purges a lot of emotion, doesn't it?
I didn't marry someone knowing they were a coward, a liar and a cheat. Or that I was a gullible trusting fool who would let my beliefs about M and who my H really drag me to my knees in a painful limbo of indecision for over a year. But both of these things are true.
I think my goals are different now. I think I don't know who my H is or if he ever was the decent man I thought he was. I think I deserve way better than this crazy destructive s**t. I don't want to reconnect with what he is now and I don't believe in him enough to even make the effort. I just want the D done and to look back at this awful time in the rear view mirror. My L is good but I am dealing with a situation where - for whatever reason - my STBXH is not responding to L's letters, not dealing with the practicalities of house/possessions etc and really dragging things out. And when he does respond via his L, he tells stupid lies or ignores questions he doesn't want to answer. The next logical step, having exhausted all the other sensible ones, is to take it to Court and on the 15th August, that is what I will have to tell my L to do. The disadvantages? It will drag us into an expensive 6-18 month process and delay finalising the D. For me, that means a delay in getting some financial stability, spending money we don't have and still being connected to him. For him? The same plus will prevent him marrying OW if that is his intention.
Would really welcome any ideas? Bearing in mind that a) he filed in Jan and it took him until June to produce even partial financial disclosures, b) I am currently NC and have recently refused his invite to 'chat' and c) he is still in treatment for severe depression which he also used as a reason for ignoring me for over a year so silence and avoidance are his favourite go-to approaches. Don't need or want to speculate on what is in his head (who would want to go there?) but it would be good to avoid mutual self-assured legal destruction if possible. Anyone else found a way to do that with someone who looks like a paid up MLC club member?
Me: 53 H:38 T:20 M:14 BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression S 1/16 PA 4/16 H filed 1/17
I must confess that I'm not entirely sure what your question is. Sounds like he filed for divorce, is not cooperating, and you have to do something (is August 15 a deadline to file an answer in the divorce, complete discovery--the disclosure part, or take some other action)?
Hard for me to imagine someone kicking themselves for staying in limbo for a year. I've been here 7 years. Now that is worthy of a serious talking to of one's self, no?
I read your post and bttfly's post and I see lots of people mention love. I realize that I never talk about love in mine. How could I possibly love someone who has done to me the things he has. I know in my case the predominant emotion has been fear and that is just insane. If not fear, than projecting qualities of decency onto him that he does not deserve.
You didn't choose any of this stuff or put it into motion. The only question is, are you going to protect yourself? If you are ashamed about a year, how would you feel about 7?
What is going to make the seismic shift in your life that you seem to be wanting.
I guess my question was if anyone can think of anything (non-lawyerly) I can do to get him to act so we don't have to take the Court route?
The deadline is mine. After he reappeared wanting to 'chat', and full of word blah about 'taking responsibility'... I told him he had a month to act differently if he really wanted to earn my trust, talk to me and try to 'salvage something from the horrible mess he has made' (his words). A month ends on the 15th August.
Fair point about beating myself up...actually this all started in Oct 2015. Since then he has said virtually nothing about anything at all, including why he wants a divorce. He could drag this out for years unless I take the Court option but there are real disadvantages to it as I said.
What I want now? I've spent 21 months on my knees with every emotion under the sun. (we all know what that's like!). I just couldn't get my head round the craziness of what was happening or how unrecognisable he was from the person I thought I knew. But as I have detached, I've got more logical and tougher with myself. It is what it is and I can't understand or change it, but he has been extremely cruel and virtually silent for most of that time. My priorities are twofold really; to create some financial stability for myself and to create some emotional stability by getting away from his WTFness. I can't heal and rebuild without that. So, I need to get a financial agreement in place which probably means getting divorced too. And I need to sever any practical connections I have with him like houses, insurance etc.
Going to Court will eventually do that but it will cost thousands and take up to 2 years. Far from ideal. But, what else can I do with someone who is slowing down their OWN divorce process which I presume he still wants and certainly OW looks like she does? Makes no sense why he wouldn't want to get it done or why he would want the Court route, but not much has made sense since Oct 15 really and I can't be mind reading any more.
So, I'm just looking for ideas because I'm plumb out of them! (And I do/did love my H very much but it is hard to remember who he was and impossible to want who he is now. I suppose what love and my vows mean to me is that I tried my best to treat him with kindness and respect. But he is currently not loveable, trustworthy or acting in a way that earns respect. And I need to get out of this horror he's made because I hate it and I want better for myself.)
Me: 53 H:38 T:20 M:14 BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression S 1/16 PA 4/16 H filed 1/17
Your story resembles mine. My ex deflected questions pertaining to missing money. I was convinced it was because he had secret investmemts and was hidimg it from me. I was convinced i needed lawyers to protect me and advocate for me. He kept trying to tell me he had nothing, and that didnt make sense to me. Well, now it does.
Definatly read up on that site i recommended about how lawyers prey on woman in divorce. Amd consider whether what you can actually recover will be worth the cost of court.
In hind site, a mediator (who is an attorney) would have been abke to get my ex to disclose and i would have hired a personal lawyer to review my decree).
Once the money is gone its usually gone and if your ex has mental instability or a drug issue will you even be able to recover?
Im only mentioning this based on my experience. Each of our situations is different. And i am traumatized by my legal experience, so take my advixe with a grain of salt.
Youre ex seems to want to communicate with you, but could it be because he has stuff to share about finances? Could it be shame and a fear for his career, or reputation if some serious vices are revealed?
Eventually it will come out, but do you think you can get him to disclose directly to you amd save the legal fees? The conflict, the battle?
"Youre ex seems to want to communicate with you, but could it be because he has stuff to share about finances? Could it be shame and a fear for his career, or reputation if some serious vices are revealed? Eventually it will come out, but do you think you can get him to disclose directly to you amd save the legal fees? The conflict, the battle?"
I just can't tell, juju. When he wanted to talk, he was clear that he DIDN'T want to talk about anything 'substantive' as he called it until the 'financial stuff was dealt with'... He wouldn't say why he wanted to chat other than muttering about 'keeping the communication doors open' (!) and that there were 'big important things' he wanted to to talk about then. Really no idea.
I've been trying, and failing, for 6 months since he filed to communicate (talk, email, carrier pigeon) about practical stuff. For months, he wouldn't even respond to an email about the selling price for the house or renewing an insurance. Literally silence. Given that, I tried mediation but he wouldn't show up. Tried lawyers' (endless) letters but it takes him 4-6 weeks to reply to each one and he lies or avoids questions he doesn't want to answer. So, no, unless I was smoking wacky baccy, I think it looks unlikely he will talk to me directly about these things unless anyone has any brilliant ideas?
Doing a bit of mind reading? I think it is hard for him to look at the reality of some of what he's done, so shame might be an issue. He may even be slowing things down as a passive-aggressive battle with OW if she is putting pressure on him. He might have thought that 'chatting' would soften me up so I wouldn't let my L be so tough or take him to Court.
But tbh, I don't get it really. If you run away from your M, start an A and file for divorce, why wouldn't you want to get it done in as calm and inexpensive a way as possible? No idea.
Me: 53 H:38 T:20 M:14 BD ILYB etc 10/15, H diagnosed severe depression S 1/16 PA 4/16 H filed 1/17
He filed immediately after moving out, OW's father even helped pay the retainer and had him use the L he used for his D
Anyway, I got served and then NOTHING, for months, crickets, until I said I'm ready to get this over with, then he became like your H, pretty resistent to everything.
Point being, who knows... he wants to live in fantasy land and discussing D is just taking him back to reality. I sometimes think these H's who have OW file quickly so that they can feel better about what they're doing. Like well I filed for D so it's not really cheating.
Again, this is all speculation, but just a thought.
Unfortunately, you can lead the horse to water but can't make him drink. He is just going to choose to make things harder on himself. But the higher they are, the harder they fall
