You're right....it does seem insincere to get a sticky with this info
...she asked me "what are the things you want?" And then said "it doesn't mean you're going to get them"
There's no doub the lack of intimacy is the prime reason we are where we are...but I'm baffled why my W couldn't ever say "lets get help together" and felt this was the best alternative....of course we both have needs...at a certain point she was unwilling to communicate about them...she claims she was never able to tell me what she wants....and that I should've been able to figure it out "like other guys"...is it such a crime for her to tell me?....or teach me?
People have mentioned a "no contact" letter for OM....how does that work?...is it a letter she sends the OM?
I still need to fully understand where she is and whether she feels there is any chance of R in this M....at this point all I'm asking for is a solid sincere attempt
I'm wondering do I keep total distance from her and ignore her or do I try and spend time with her at this point and discuss things in small trickles? It's damn tough to suppress the anger and pain right now
I want to add...that our SL has been horrendous and close to zero for like 5 years (this is key info)...the worst...I feel that poor communication led us each to shut ourselves down and withdraw, eventually building into mega resentment...yet, unbelievably through it all there was no loss of interest in touching like cuddling, holding hands, etc, continuing to enjoy our lives ...I've attempted to initiate working on our issues many times and been shot down...W has held long-term resentments and kept a score-card of ways that I have wronged her, always to bring those things up against me as if they are crimes I've committed....
I never truly suspected her A's until maybe one year ago...then I began to gather evidence...
Hello Canesco,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
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...she asked me "what are the things you want?" And then said "it doesn't mean you're going to get them"
Sounds like she's checked out. You're in the right place!
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but I'm baffled why my W couldn't ever say "lets get help together" and felt this was the best alternative....
She probably did try and you likely perceived it as nagging and shut down on her. This is addressed in DR. At some point she quit trying and started planning her escape. It may have been months or even years ago.
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of course we both have needs...at a certain point she was unwilling to communicate about them...she claims she was never able to tell me what she wants....and that I should've been able to figure it out "like other guys"...is it such a crime for her to tell me?....or teach me?
Read the 5 Love Languages, it'll explain a lot about this dynamic to you. Both of you waited for the other to fill your "love tank", and when neither did, the other's tank just emptied out. At that point one or both check out of the relationship. There's more great info in there too, you likely have different LL's and we all tend to try to show love through our own language rather than the other person's. For example, your LL may be physical touch but your W's is words of affirmation. So if you touch her all the time you -think- you're showing her love, but it may mean little or nothing to her. At the same time you may never offer her WoA because it's not your language, but what you fail to realize is it is what she needs the most and she's not getting it.
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I still need to fully understand where she is and whether she feels there is any chance of R in this M....at this point all I'm asking for is a solid sincere attempt
Read Sandi's rules. Read DR. Spend some times going through threads here and read the advice offered to others. You are not in a position to expect anything of her right now, she's one foot out the door. You need to remove all pressure from her!
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I'm wondering do I keep total distance from her and ignore her or do I try and spend time with her at this point and discuss things in small trickles? It's damn tough to suppress the anger and pain right now
Giving her time and space is not ignoring her, it's just pulling back, not pursuing, not pressuring. If she want to talk then LISTEN and VALIDATE, nothing more. Don't argue/ explain/ reason/ negotiate. Just listen.
Sorry you are here buddy. This is a rough path to go down but you CAN come out the other side a better/stronger person.
First, believe NONE of what she says. A sticky note saying she has ended it with OM is NOT enough to prove that she is no longer a WW. In fact, I can guarantee that she is still wayward. No doubt in my mind. You've got to see her hit rock bottom and express true remorse before you can even begin to start trusting her again.
My advice is to detach, 180 and GAL. Most important is the detaching and it is the hardest. Right now, you've essentially got to mentally leave the M (because she has) and put all of your focus on you. If she's had multiple A's, she has some serious issues and only she can fix that. You can't. Spend this time working on you and do your best to forget about her. Let her sit in the mess she created and figure out what she needs to do to fix the situation. Do NOT be too quick to take her back. This will take a lot of time. Much longer than you think it will. Find a path forward that doesn't include her. I know it sounds backwards but when she sees that you are willing to move on without her AND show her that you life is better without her, she will see what an awesome H she is losing and it will help drag her out of the fog. I don't possibly see how it can work for her to continue working with OM. For me, she would need to get another job or at a bare minimum, move to another department where she can't have any contact with him. Do not initiate R talk. I would go LRT so long as she is still wayward, and again, she IS.
If she is going to end it with OM, she needs to send a letter (which you help write) or make a phone call in which you are listening to. She needs to be very clear that the R with OM is over and that there is to be no contact ever again. There also needs to be a transparency plan in place where you have access to all her emails, texts, etc. The "encrypted" apps need to go away.
But I think it is premature to even begin discussing these things. She is still wayward. She is in NO position to ask you what you want and then in the same breath tell you that she may be willing to not comply. That's BS. You and you alone get to decide the conditions of R. You MUST be firm with her.
she just texted me saying "I can be gone for the weekend or ever...you need to let me know what you want to make your life easier"....how should I respond to this?
I've just scheduled a coaching session for next week
...what would I expect her hitting rock bottom and express true remorse to look like?
..you're saying I should totally avoid prodding her about anything right now?
...my desire is to go into deep discussions about why she did it, etc...but whats the DB'ing smart way? ..do i avoid having dinner with her and stuff?....do i still be nice? it's hard to smile when I see her right now..i feel disgusted and paralyzed
if there's a letter which I help write to the OM, what do you think the content would be??....
she just texted me saying "I can be gone for the weekend or ever...you need to let me know what you want to make your life easier"....how should I respond to this?
Hmmmm, well frankly it sounds like a cry for attention more than anything. This is tricky because she's fresh out of an affair (maybe). So on the one hand you want to validate, but on the other hand you have to set some boundaries about OM at some point. Honestly I think this is something you really need to discuss with a DB coach. But for now, maybe just reply with "It sounds like you are frustrated, is that how you feel? I am sorry you're going through so much right now. I want you to stay and work on our relationship with me, but what's more important to me right now is that you do what you feel is best for you, and I will support you no matter what that choice is even if it's taking some time away for yourself. If you would like to talk about it I would be happy to, just let me know."
In other words, you support her, you are there for her IF SHE WANTS YOU TO BE, but you are not putting pressure on her one way or the other.
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...what would I expect her hitting rock bottom and express true remorse to look like?
Read TXHubby's thread, his W is a classic example of a WAS bottoming out and returning with a humbled spirit.
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..you're saying I should totally avoid prodding her about anything right now?
...my desire is to go into deep discussions about why she did it, etc...but whats the DB'ing smart way?
The opposite of that.
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..do i avoid having dinner with her and stuff?....do i still be nice? it's hard to smile when I see her right now..i feel disgusted and paralyzed
Read Sandi's rules, it'll answer a lot of your questions.
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if there's a letter which I help write to the OM, what do you think the content would be??....
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! Do not contact OM. That will look to her like control and manipulation, and may have the adverse effect of driving her back to him.
ok! Thanks...I'm trying this approach RIGHT NOW...kind of turning it around on her...it's a reverse approach right? instead of having her saying she can leave and have time away IF I WANT...I'm saying she can leave and have time away if thats what SHE wants, right?...the decision is HERS...not mine? and if she so decides, I will support her?
you are right...definitely seemed to be a cry for attention...as soon as I applied this technique she shows she was dying to talk to me about her job...of course it is all about her...big surprise...it seemed to be driving her mad i wasnt talking to her
I have NOT read your whole thread, I'm catching up...but
Originally Posted By: canseco
Thanks so much for your responses!
-Her excuse for not ending it was seemingly an attempt to seek an OM.....I said "we never agreed to have other partners" and she said "we never disagreed"...this is the most unbelievable garbage I've ever heard...\ um, wow, priceless. This^^ may be an entry in the "amazing things" said...
-the only proof of ending the A is a little stick-it note saying "I ended it with OM"
speechless
-I believe she understands she has inflicted pain on me, but I'm not sure if she's simply sorry that I feel pain and not sorry for her actions
-when I told her to discontinue all contact with the OM, she claimed it's not possible since they need to work together and report to the same manager...do I ask her to change jobs?... You do not "ask" her.
Does SHE WANT TO BE MARRIED TO YOU?? Since she broke her vows, she has a bit of heavy lifting to do now. Sorry it's heavy but sheesh...so is your broken heart.
You inform her that b/c you do NOT want an open marriage and you do value the vows, you will not tolerate a 3 way marriage.
She can do what she likes but you will not be in an open marriage. (so yeah, she has to change jobs)
yes[/color]
-I find it very hard to even talk to her at this point...I'm trying to be detached...how frequently should I be conversing with her about steps to take?
what's to say? I mean you say it once (maybe twice if there's so much emotion you actually think she misheard.)
Then you follow up with action on your end. It's hard, I know. Very very hard
but not that complicated
I'm trying not to show my pain with her and appear to be "contented" after my first few days of self-destruction...should I hound her or bring it up once a week...??! No no no. This is not her saying "gee Idk if I want to be married situation"
and you trying to be all busy GAL & saying "I better act as if I'm GAL and have a PMA".
This is her having an affair and deeply wounding you
and damaging the m, so there's no YOU acting as if all is well.
No, you are allowed to be hurt - and frankly it'd be strange to me if you were "'contented."
I mean
WTF?
-now, I DO accept my contribution to our relationship problems and intimacy problems...absolutely...why would a person who loves you choose this course of action over working on it together...this baffles me....my W is a supposed logical thinking manager...this is complete contradiction with her actions...
I'll read the rest of your thread
but it's NOT about logic. At all. Few affairs are thought out.
Most affairs are justified in the hearts/minds of the partner who has one. And especially with women, imo, the justifications are emotional and detailed
('I've been rejected so much I feel ugly/undesireable - but here is this man who says I AM desirable, so I'll show h")
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I want to add...that our SL has been horrendous and close to zero for like 5 years (this is key info)...the worst...
this^^ is a big big deal.
She may feel you have no right to question her and that may explain her saying you "never said you could not have an open m", given that there was no sex inside the m.
Though we promise fidelity to our partners, meaning we won't have sex with others, there is also the understanding we will provide that to our spouses. When we don't, it tends to make people feel justified going outside the m, obviously. What would be different in the m, if she were to commit?
I feel that poor communication led us each to shut ourselves down and withdraw, what does this^^^ mean? It is very general. Vague. "Poor communication" does not excuse or equate to 5 years of feeling rejected. No offense, okay?
I get that it must have felt mutual but - sexist as it is, when there's no sex or even attempt at intimacy, the woman tends to feel the man isn't attracted to her, (guys do tend to initiate more, right or wrong) so when there's no attempts
that gets depressing and develops bitterness and a - well, you get my point.
Be more specific in your hoped for solutions than saying "we will communicate better about sex". How? And then what?
You need real tools, and I'd suggest you seek them out b/c if you have not come upon them already then they require professional help. NO SHAME IN THAT....seriously.
eventually building into mega resentment...yet, unbelievably through it all there was no loss of interest in touching like cuddling, holding hands, etc, continuing to enjoy our lives lacking passion in the m, or feeling as if you are not desired is a real ego blow and will breed deep seated resentment in time. Yes that can, obviously, lead to a WAW or an A...
...I've attempted to initiate working on our issues many times and been shot down... what did you initiate? How? What does "shot down" mean? Ever see a sex therapist?What was your sex life like when you fell in love?
W has held long-term resentments and kept a score-card of ways that I have wronged her, always to bring those things up against me as if they are crimes I've committed....
I never truly suspected her A's until maybe one year ago...then I began to gather evidence...
Do you see any^^^ parallels?
You will both need to Lose the score cards and evidence gathering if you want to rebuild this marriage.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
