WAW, is there hope?

[Cristy]

Hello KGuy,

I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.

It is going to sound like an echo around here. Definitely stop any kind of pursuing/talking with mutual friends and family. Come here to share and vent. No need to reach out to MIL for anything.

Focus all of your time, effort and energy into becoming the best KGuy and dad that only a fool would leave. Don't make changes and look to see if W is watching or noticing. Make these changes for you and your precious kiddos. They need to be long lasting and sincere. Prove that to yourself and anyone else through your actions, not your words.

Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.

Cristy

Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

[KGuy]

Hey Cristy,

Thanks for the confirmation of what others have said. I think i know what to do right now, but keeping the resolve to actually do it is the thing. I must admit that its tough to not look back and see if she is noticing, she is right next door after all. Right now i don't let her know that dep down i probably am thiknig that, but continue on to that path by get the work done at my other house to get it on the market by next spring. I also will have my canoe restored pretty soon aand expect to get back out on the water. Eventually, i'll get the motor boat back on the water...

When i recover from the lawyer fees, i may take you up on the coaching offer as any advice is welcome. Although, i know i have some issues i can work on and improve (always room for improvement), I know she already is a fool for leaving me . Indeed, I've already got the ex girlfriend before I met her asking my Dad about my sitch (not that i would go there, but its good to know emotionally as well). Its my opinion, the W is just being selfish because she didn't get her way whne she expected me to cave to her uncompromizing demands. I think she presently expects she will go off and do everything on her own just fine without me. Part of that plan i suppose was to sell her house quickly and use the proceeds to buy the "spacious house" she wanted us (ie me) to get while when we were talking about what it would take to save the MR. However, her house has now been on the market for about two weeks and still not sold because she is asking too much for it.

I came back to this thread to touch on some of the parallels of my sitch (and not hijack the other thread) vs what I saw Sandi2 posted in the "Regain(in)g Respect" of the WS? thread by Tread. In that thread, Sandi2 mentioned the W will test the waters to see if she can still control and I think now my wife has come out of her cold, silent treatment stage and now is testing me in precisely that manner. A couple things she has done recently.

1) I've had a draft of the final divorce decree proved via lawyers for awhile now. Frankly, i just haven't had the heart to go through it to ensure everything in it matches a) the mediated agreement between us and b) details of a Standard Possession Order (SPO) that are applicable for my state. The W, on the other hand, has not pushed to get it finalized, although she may feel it doesn't matter as its effectively already done via the mediated agreement as well as it would take more money to the Lawyers to push more on it.


2) Recently she is coming out of the cold silent treatment towards me to critisize me for some pretty inconsequential stuff. For instance, some of the shorts my (almost) 4 y/o daughter wore when we were together are now all of the sudden "boys" clothes and the colors aren't "girlish". I just told her she was being overly critical, but i should have reiterated what i told her before that she doesn't get to tell me what to do any more now that she has moved out. The thing is that my daughter is the one picking out the clothes (color and all) and likes those particular shorts because they have pockets. Like any kid, she wants to fit as many small toys and trinkets in them as she possibly can... . Before that, the W was trying to tell me how i should apply diaper ointment to the 18 month old... Its my opinion that she is starting to let her anger out on me by lashing out like this, any thoughts?

I've tried to not reply back to the W in a cold or angry manner and have pushed in back on the W to stop trying to control or demean me when she makes such comments. On the other hand, my responses took away any effort I would have otherwise made to compliment her i guess.

In addition to that, even though the W gets child support in this interim period, the W is trying to make me send the kids (particularly the older one) clothes/shoes over to her. for the girls from my/our house so she won't have to buy them. In one case she wanted me to switch a pair of shorts that were now too small for another larger pair of shorts. How petty is that? She had put in a bag on the back door in the middle of my visit (ie not sent with the kids during and exchange but made a separate walk over to leave the shorts and a note (and an email i answered the next day) to that effect. I've pretty much told her thats why she gets child support and that since we don't live together, there is no reason why we should still share things (even the kids clothes).

On the other hand, I also am looking at this from a custody standpoint as well and want to have a documented response when possible to ensure it doesn't come back to haunt me in the form of a custody modification to take more time with the kids away from me.

[Cristy]

Hey Cristy,

Thanks for the confirmation of what others have said. I think i know what to do right now, but keeping the resolve to actually do it is the thing. I must admit that its tough to not look back and see if she is noticing, she is right next door after all. Right now i don't let her know that dep down i probably am thiknig that, but continue on to that path by get the work done at my other house to get it on the market by next spring. I also will have my canoe restored pretty soon aand expect to get back out on the water. Eventually, i'll get the motor boat back on the water...

When i recover from the lawyer fees, i may take you up on the coaching offer as any advice is welcome. Although, i know i have some issues i can work on and improve (always room for improvement), I know she already is a fool for leaving me . Indeed, I've already got the ex girlfriend before I met her asking my Dad about my sitch (not that i would go there, but its good to know emotionally as well). Its my opinion, the W is just being selfish because she didn't get her way whne she expected me to cave to her uncompromizing demands. I think she presently expects she will go off and do everything on her own just fine without me. Part of that plan i suppose was to sell her house quickly and use the proceeds to buy the "spacious house" she wanted us (ie me) to get while when we were talking about what it would take to save the MR. However, her house has now been on the market for about two weeks and still not sold because she is asking too much for it.

Hello KGuy,

Focus less on what your W is doing/thinking. It sounds like you are doing a bit of mind reading.

I highly recommend taking of advantage of the online special for Telephone Coaching. You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be.

Cristy

Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

[EastTN]

In addition to that, even though the W gets child support in this interim period, the W is trying to make me send the kids (particularly the older one) clothes/shoes over to her. for the girls from my/our house so she won't have to buy them. In one case she wanted me to switch a pair of shorts that were now too small for another larger pair of shorts. How petty is that? She had put in a bag on the back door in the middle of my visit (ie not sent with the kids during and exchange but made a separate walk over to leave the shorts and a note (and an email i answered the next day) to that effect. I've pretty much told her thats why she gets child support and that since we don't live together, there is no reason why we should still share things (even the kids clothes).

I had to deal with the same thing... STBXW kept coming to the house for more clothes for our D (who lives with me during the week and sees her mother on the weekend). Like you, I got upset about it at first (especially when I bought four new pairs of pants and all of them disappeared) but the truth is they're your kids' clothes, and not yours or your W's. Others may disagree, but I say just let this one go--it's not worth having the kids clothes be a proxy for the larger issues.

My WAW/WW/WTF is a piece of work, but "Me and her" has nothing to do with "her and D"

[Btrow]

I had to deal with the same thing... STBXW kept coming to the house for more clothes for our D (who lives with me during the week and sees her mother on the weekend). Like you, I got upset about it at first (especially when I bought four new pairs of pants and all of them disappeared) but the truth is they're your kids' clothes, and not yours or your W's. Others may disagree, but I say just let this one go--it's not worth having the kids clothes be a proxy for the larger issues

EastTN,
So your STBXW has unlimited, unsupervised access to the house you are currently living in and presumably paying for in full? The word boundaries springs to mind.

When my XW left and took half the kids clothes, the kids "assets" were divided on that day. From then on I told her to Keep "her" clothes to herself and I'll keep mine. Future purchases paid from MY money are not meant to lessen XW's financial burden.

Looking forward to a "but the truth is they're your kids' clothes, and not yours or your W's" post when she runs of with the kids' tv set and Playstation ;-)

[EastTN]

Yes, and it pisses me off, but I can't change the locks until the divorce is final. Which is, thankfully, going to happen on Tuesday.

I've lived this before, in an even worse situation. XW #1, who had moved in with her boyfriend on BD day actually cut the intruder chain off my front door one night while I was in bed to get in the house (not for access to the house, but because she wanted to make me suffer for something) I actually called the police, and was told "tough luck, you're still married and she has a right to the house even though she doesn't live there anymore. If she comes in and something happens, call us back and we'll come out there and figure things out" which I translated as "call us again at your peril of being arrested."

[censored] when the law actively supports someone running roughshod over your boundaries, right? "Violated" doesn't begin to describe the feeling.

Your point about TV etc is taken. I'd have a problem with that. Clothes, not so much (she's going to be wearing different outfits on exchange days most weeks, anyway).

[KGuy]

Hey BTrow and East TN, thanks for your responses.

Btrow, when i have them i need the clothes and don't want to have to go buy them again. Meanwhile she would have not expended any money and can apply the child support to fund a new house (eventually). I agree they are the kids clothes, but i have the kids quite a bit thankfully and need to cloth them. When we had the kids split (i had the 3 y/o and she the 13 mo old), I went out and bought 3 ppair of shoes. She went out and bought 1 pair for each of them, but brings the kids to me with no hoes. She then emails me saying she knows i have sandals, and can i send them over since the shoes she bought make the 3 y/o's feet sweaty. If i give in here, i'll be giving in forever so i'm setting this boundary so the line doesn't keep coming in my direction.


EastTN, I changed the locks after about a month of her moving out because the W's kids left the doors unlocked three times while they were clearing out their things. Two of those times the doors were left open.

Before that she had unfettered access to the house and she took almost all the kids clothes. At that time i had the 3 y/o (she had the younger one). I went out and bought some more clothes and also requested she give back some since she didn't have the 3 y/o at the time. She complied, but didn't give me everything. She now gets child support, but still comes to me for these little things. There are two ways of looking at it:
1) She is asking me to support her in ways beyond the child support we agreed on and is pushing her limits.
2) Its her funny way of reaching out to me to get a response. My buddy keeps telling me don't even respond to her requests, but this is kid related technically so i feel i have to.

Yesterday I had them for Wednesday night. She drops them off and says they have lice and were treated. Not sure where they got that from, but it certainly wasn't here and i told her so. Being a little gun shy from so much court action, I'm a little concerned she will try and put that on me.


Cristy, I'll have to go check out the specials. Money is real tight right now until at least the credit card closes. That way i can defer payment for the closing cycle plus the 25 days until its due. The lawyers were expensive and although i was able to stagger the payments, the last of the heated battle payment are getting paid off.

[EastTN]

I agree you're being used, stand by your boundary.

[KGuy]

A little journaling here somewhat.

I have discovered the "Newcomer LBH who has a wayward wife" thread is multiple threads, I'm trying to get all those read. For the most part, a lot of the A stuff doesn't apply to me I don't think, but there is a lot there that is applicable that i am trying to take way from it. I do think my W has had an EA of sorts, i think its referred to as a "unicorn affair"? I started reading those threads to find what the difference between a Walk Away W/S and a wayward wife. I'll perhaps post over in the last LBS thread, but i was wondering if anyone can point me to a thread where Sandi2 has elaborated on the differences between a Wayward wife and a Walk Away Wife without a A. I found one post on it, but it led to more questions. I know my situation is somewhat unique with the weaning issues, but i think i need to hone in on the differences of treatment of a Wayward not in an affair and a MLC. I would think its similar to a MLC, and that will be my next focus on reading after i get the LBS threads read.

Okay, so I am still trying to educate myself to get a better handle of things. H@ll, the divorce will be final in a few months, but i'll have figured it out at least...lol. i finished the DB book and started the DR book (only about 30 pages into the latter) and most of that seemed to apply to when the W was still in the house. Too late for a SBT application of that now (although helpful once communication starts), but the last resort techniques in the book and on this board) are what i am falling back on (and am attempting to do) as i have mentioned above.

I went to our MC again (this is the third time) yesterday and tried to update her on the situation as well as get some sort of confirmation on my strategy. I told her i had read the DB book and she said she knew Michelle and had been thinking of getting certified by Michelle, so i may try to help her go forward in that regard to have her coach me. Anyway, she reiterated what i had resigned myself to that i most likely would not save the marriage since the court date was in October. Thats pretty much the takeaway from anotherstander's post above as well which i agree with. I updated her on some of what i have done so far and we actually ran over.

Due to the irrationality of my W, i believe she has wayward behavior and our MC/now my IC agrees.

So, onward to GAL and detaching. An update on that:
This past weekend was a mix of tough and easy from a relationship standpoint. I had some work to do out in the yard and i started early in the morning. The W wasn't around then and i got some of the work done on it and went in for a break. When I came out to continue, the W and all the kids were also in their backyard (remember they are right next door). I found it hard to do the work on the fenceline i was doing so i shifted my work to things further in the yard. I think i may use my iPod next time so that i don't get distracted by things going on over there. Thought about it later, and perhaps she went out there because she knew i was working out there.

Anyway, i got allot done in the yard, and then the next day i went up to my cabin to do some work there. Thats 3 hours away, so its much better detaching up there . I had joined a meetup group and went ahead and signed up for an event this coming weekend. I'm also thinking about another event this week i can squeeze in.

Last night i worked on my trailer brakes when they drove up. Took allot to not stop what i was doing and say hi or even look over there as they went into the house. My D did not come over to say Hi this time Made me think later that i should have initiated something, after all if it was a normal neighbor, I'd have stopped what i was doing and chatted a little with them. For now though, i am resign to continue to focus on whatever it is i am doing and let the W (or D) initiate prior to me butting into their biz.

I've lived this before, in an even worse situation. XW #1, who had moved in with her boyfriend on BD day actually cut the intruder chain off my front door one night while I was in bed to get in the house (not for access to the house, but because she wanted to make me suffer for something) I actually called the police, and was told "tough luck, you're still married and she has a right to the house even though she doesn't live there anymore. If she comes in and something happens, call us back and we'll come out there and figure things out" which I translated as "call us again at your peril of being arrested."

[censored] when the law actively supports someone running roughshod over your boundaries, right? "Violated" doesn't begin to describe the feeling.

I had this same thing happen. The mediation settlement stated a weekend she could come over from 8-6 on the two WE days to get her stuff. She calls the Sheriff to come over with her. Its obvious that he is bias to her as she has fed him some story. When she says that i had changed the locks, he tells her she could have broken a window or busted down the door to get in since she was married and it was our house. I couldn't fathom a peace officer condoning breaking and entering. He also made comments that were obviously bias to her side. On the other hand, he did say he knew nothing about divorce when i first talked to him, so I'm hoping Karma gets him sometime in his life...is that being too vindictive?

[KGuy]

Okay, i made it all the way through the LBH thread by Sandi2 and will say that there was some useful stuff in there that helped quite a bit. I'm also about 60 pages in the DR book and i have to echo my opinion that the DR book seems to flow better than the DB book. Obviously that a premature opinion, but so far...

I still think i am dealing with a weaning issue from other research. Basically, when the young ones wean off, the hormones that help the bonding and love mechanisms go away and about 5 to 8% of women have severe irritability (PMS X100 i've read). This accentuates any underlying issues that may be present. Has anyone on either side of the fence experienced this?

I will note that there are underlying issues here that each of us have and I take full responsibility for some of those affecting our MR. As stated above, i can be unyielding at times (ie stubborn and opinionated as well as uncompromising if i believe strongly about it) , we have mixed family issues including differences in how we feel about discipline, i have a lower threshold for a clean house than she does, etc. Basically I have been addressing these issues in my GAL now that she is no longer in the same house.

From the LBH threads, i took away the following things.
1) My W is more WAW than wayward. I kinda knew that, but the definitions i was getting mixed up on for awhile there. I mentinoe to our MC that the W was wayward and she agreed, but again a mix-up on definitions...As Sandi2 points out, the DB book doesn't really define any difference between the two.
2)i tend to take on too many projects and also have ideas and plans that i don't always follow through on (although i have on some). I already knew this really as i have been addressing this in my GAL as i mentioned above, however, the fact that it may have made my W lose respect for me is something i had not fully realized.
2) another thing that Cadet and another poster said in the later threads was that it really doesn't matter what the diagnosis is, the DB application is similar for all. I guess i wanted to tailor it to my situation for the biggest impact on fixing things.

Any other ideas that anyone might have to make a greater impact would be helpful. Its good to get on here and read other's stories. I see echoes of my M in so many other's stories. Again, thanks for all the input so far in my saga.