Figured I would start a new thread since I'm almost at 100 posts.
My commitment to this thread is to drop the rope... I am going to REALLY REALLY work toward asking if there is hope, if he will turn around, why he does this/that and focus on what IS today and how to make tomorrow better. I will probably have some slip ups (okay, maybe more than some) but I am really going to work at this. I need to get out of this crap.
I have a final on monday, about 150 patients to log, 65 more clinical hours and a horrendous skype encounter with my professor (who failed my last note and told me if I didn't 'get it together' I wouldn't pass this semester) she is the one that has failed many students out of the program. She knows I'm going through some stuff, but said this is graduate school if you can't handle it then you should re think what you're doing. So ya I have ENOUGH to worry about. Come on July 28th! i will have 3 weeks off from school and start back to work July 30th.
Anyway, thank you all for your patience!!!! I'm a hot mess/work in progress
T, Florida has a certification process for family law attorneys. Someone who is board certified in Florida is going to have more hours, more training, more coursework in family law.
Also check out the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers and see if they have anyone listed in your area.
You want to avoid lawyers who claim they can help you with everything under the sun. Find a board certified lawyer who only does family law.
They should either not charge for the initial consult or have a low fee. Again this is to help both parties see if there is a fit. They should be able to give you estimates for the case based on certain factors (kids, house, retirement accounts, etc).
Don't assume that him buying a house is good for you. He may argue that it was property acquired after separation. Again something you need to talk to a FL lawyer about.
I am toying with filing for custody and support without having a conversation with him. What do you think about that? Does a conversation need to be had or should I just file without talking?
I think that would be amazing! If you have it in you to do it, DO IT. I only pitched the conversation idea because I thought it would be a meeting place between where you are and where we all agree you need to be.
FILE! No advanced warning to H. Just do it. And watch his head spin.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
The two L I have met with were pretty doomsday, as in basically H has the upper hand, he can do whatever he wants and not pay a dime, still come and go as he pleases, he can get 50/50 custody and not pay a cent, I probably won't get much alimony, etc etc.
It sends me for a tailspin after I meet with them just because he makes a lot of money and I frankly haven't had a paycheck since before the baby.
I will continue to make consults that are free or low cost... I was doing this to get as much advice/input because I believe 2 is better than 1, and also because then its a conflict if H were to want to use someone I already met with to represent him.
So, I'll look into filing for support and custody, but I don't think I will file for D. It's not where I'm at in this moment, that very well may change. I get my student loan money the second or third week of August so depending on the cost it may have to wait until then if they want a retainer paid for filing those requests vs filing D.
I'm also thinking of telling H I probably won't be continuing this next semester in school, that I'm going to take some time off to focus on the kids and to be able to work (since he is soo short on money). Just because I have a feeling he's waiting for me to be making the big bucks after I graduate and sit for boards in December. Just to throw a wrench in his plans. I don't really plan on doing that, unless my professor fails me eek. But he doesn't have to know everything
On a funny note, just because it makes me laugh, I got a message from a strange number yesterday in between seeing patients. It was a message that I guess MIL had added H and I to a group message and sent a long letter starting with Dear T and H, and going on about how her life is falling apart, her 'baby' sister is cutting her out of her life because of a failed business investment, that she is devastated, strugglign with the loss, no more phone calls, family gatherings, holidays, shes losing her rock, etc, etc. to please pray for her to pull herself together, that she has been a wreck and unable to reach out to either of us. that she really needs support right now and a bunch of other stuff.
I read it and just laughed. Gosh that sounds cold of me, but seriously. I was half tempted to give her the response she gave about me with H, you know your sister deserves to be happy and she just doesn't love you anymore. Instead I said I'm sorry to hear that.
I am not super religious but I feel like God put a letter in my path today. I was searching for the baby's social and found a letter I wrote to myself July 19, 2014 *during the last BD*
It was something I was writing to H, but had kept it to myself just to relieve my feelings... I felt like it was something I could have written just yesterday. How odd things are.
T I don't get that at all. I think you may need someone who is a little more creative and can help you think through the issues and possibly "change" the facts a little. I'm not talking lying, but I'm talking about making smart strategic decisions. I do have concerns that by staying there he can argue that he is "with the kids" and move for 50/50, which a lot of them do to try to avoid paying for support. Definitely document the contact he has (and doesn't have with the kids). I use an app on my phone so it is always handy and backed up.
I think if he were not there the chances are good he would not be taking all three kids 50% of the time and he would be establishing a precedent for what the custody should look like.
You don't have an obligation to tell him anything at this point. Mine tells me nothing and I tell him nothing. I look to him to decide how nice, communicative or forthcoming to be.
I don't think you should file for divorce now, but I do think you should get going on the custody and support ASAP.
His mother sounds somewhat narcissistic. She knows what is going on with you guys and she is trying to make it all about her. My mother is the same way. I don't tell her anything or look to her for support. It just won't happen.
Also, T, check to see if your school offers any access to lawyers through the Employee Assistance Program. I'm a university employee and that's how I found my attorney. Free consult, he didn't charge me a retainer, and I get a 25% discount on fees. He's got a great deal of experience and has been wonderful to work with so far.
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I am toying with filing for custody and support without having a conversation with him. What do you think about that? Does a conversation need to be had or should I just file without talking? Point being, like I told my dad, I don’t trust him and he hasn’t given me a reason to at this point. So I’m not sure his ‘word’ about a schedule and finances would mean anything and would just delay the action of getting something in writing. I also believe I’ll be met with excuses about how he cannot afford X Y Z which really isn’t my problem..
You can file for certain terms and get it on the calendar. You don't need his permission, the man who is leaving you, to do that. Understanding this is part of dropping the rope, T. If he wants to go your separate ways, your only concern are you and the kids. His feelings about what you are doing don't matter.
File. If he wants to have a discussion about terms, fine. You don't have to agree to anything. If you do, keep your court date. H will want to do everything off the books because he thinks he can keep manipulating you. This is a man who stopped helping you financially last time around; going off the books would
I'm sorry about your professor. Sometimes certain personalities look for reasons to keep others from gaining entry to their club. It's a big problem in academia. Don't let this person get you down. You're juggling so much already, you can do anything. I know I nitpick you (which I do in an effort to help you see when you're getting in your own way), but I'm amazed by all that you're doing right now.
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The two L I have met with were pretty doomsday, as in basically H has the upper hand, he can do whatever he wants and not pay a dime, still come and go as he pleases, he can get 50/50 custody and not pay a cent, I probably won't get much alimony, etc etc.
I think you're missing that you'll get half of the assets in any D and you'll have a well-paying job. You'll be okay.
I think you're also missing that you could be doing things to help your cause right now. You've got an H who has left you twice, once right after the baby was born. Who is most likely cheating. Who doesn't come home every night. Who bought an expensive motorcycle and car toys. Who is taking illegal steroids that he has shipped to your house, which means you can document the shipments, the origins, and perhaps even take photos of the contents, because - oops - you didn't read the name on the package and accidentally opened it.
You take notes on patients, but notes on H aren't something you've kept. Your posts here are a great place to note events and dates. These won't be relevant in a no fault D, but they sure would be relevant when it comes to custody! Be smart and protect yourself. Maybe you won't need to use the information, but it's there if you need it.
And need I tell you how crucial it is to hide the information so he never finds it?
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It was something I was writing to H, but had kept it to myself just to relieve my feelings... I felt like it was something I could have written just yesterday. How odd things are.
And what was the outcome of that time in your life, T? What did you learn about yourself and your capability to live your life without H? I think that was a sign, too, and I think it was reassuring you that you did it before and you can do it again.
In some ways, you're so worried about this being the second time for H, but it's the second time for you, too. You know exactly what to do to help yourself. You do not have to put an artificial limit on anything, that if he does ____ you can't consider him again. You are strong enough to handle things as they come. Trust yourself, because you'll make good decisions even without those restrictions (the ones that you're working so hard to try to prevent from coming to fruition now, and are keeping you from dropping the rope!)
That's why i said I want a pitbull not a poodle and why I thought getting more advice/insight from others might be helpful because what one says another one might not have thought about. I'm a pretty intelligent person (except when it comes to following advice haha) and I know there has to be other ways to what I am thinking and being told.
One L also told me nothing matters as far as how he is not involved what he does and doesn't do and if he doesn't pay that FL sides with both parents and will grant 50/50 and the only time 50/50 isn't granted is in terms of physical abuse and neglect. Last time I kept a journal of EVERYTHING and I actually still have everything from last time and was told nothing makes a difference. I may go back to the L I used last time, but the only thing was she was very very expensive and was not very courteous with her billing. We ate through a 5k retainer before even hitting mediation. But she was a free consult so I may go see her again, voice my concerns about billing last time and see what happens because she was good. She's in a different county than I am but also does cases in my county so I don't mind the drive to her.
Anyway, if you have anybody you can recommend that would be AWESOME! I've met with Rice and Peake so far. Rice is older, great huge law firm but he is kind of out of the out for blood mode, just wants to settle and avoid conflict it seemed. Peake was negative nancy that basically H could get everything he wanted and I was screwed, it's too bad because she was funny and I really liked talking to her as a person we had a good time laughing about all the crazy people she meets and that she couldn't believe how stable I appeared with my story. Swain is the one that was a minimum of 750-1000 for the consult so I cancelled that appointment. If there is someone that is only one county over and has privileges here I wouldn't mind driving if he/she was worth it.
Hey Cadence, I always seem to be posting simultaneously with you.
yes, I know I don't need his permission, I didn't mean it that way about filing, I was asking for everyone's opinion on what you guys thought was best.
And just so you know, I appreciate the nitpicking... It helps me.
I took SO many notes last time and haven't started much but I can go back to my posts for dates. Plus, he texts me most nights when he says he is leaving work and its uusally around 9pm (he commutes like me) so I have that evidence or record to show that he obviously doesn't get to the house until 10pm.
As far as the conversation about him not coming here, I purposely have not sent it via text and only when we are in person at the house and catching H off guard because I don't want record that I told him to leave, that he could spin it around that he wasn't around the kids because I made him leave the home. So that's why I wont send it in a text.
yes the letter was a sign, but it was also a sign that maybe this isn't supposed to work out. That I'm not the person for him to keep him interested and not feeling like he has to stray off for another woman...
I took pictures of the suspension boxes and of the receipt... the steroids are in a box so I found tape to tape it back up but I'm not sure i can open it without him knowing... I'm choosing to say nothing and play the stupid little housewife so he will feel more safe to continue to do things and let his guard down, like leading a cow to the slaughter house
Do you guys think there is any worth for me to have pictures or evidence that H is not at work until 9pm like he says for custody purposes?
He text me tonight at 830pm - still at work but I'm coming home tonight
I don't feel this requires a reply so I didn't but I am thinking he's trying to create a paper trail... I'm just wondering if it would behoove me to have a picture to go along with this text that he isn't really at work
I know you guys can't give legal advice but my L last time said it went to character but the L i met with this time said it makes no difference
I think despite the D and Ls, it makes the most sense to press him for a predicable and stable schedule now. Any person in their right mind will agree that this is best for the kids. It will also help with your own sanity and detachment process. Can you email this in business format and let him know this must start today and to please follow it? The way he comes and goes at night is just ridiculous given that you have 3 small children.
In terms of Ls and D, I know a lot of people that spent a small fortune on their D. Often the end result may be the same, right? Especially if mediation in required (where I live it is). The thing is, having a "pit bull" L may make you feel protected and powerful, but won't that also cost more? My inlaws almost got divorced and spent over 30K with 2 (very good) Ls going back and forth, only to R later. Except they had 30K in debt!
I tried to promise myself that if I ever D, I would try my best to be amiable and to not let emotions take over. I think it is important to have your list of goals, but also to go for them in a way that won't be a big and expensive fight. ... Am I way off here?
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
Courts don't care about stuff like that. Does he keep time sheets at work or clock in. If things get contested, then you could potentially have something to seek in discovery.
Please listen to Blu. I am a lawyer and a litigator (but not in family law). I have not filed for divorce myself because of the cost involved. You do not want a pit bull. I intentionally hired an attorney that specialized in mediation of high asset dissolutions because I do not want to spend my kids' college educations on litigation. I am determined to get an agreement with mine if it kills me. Thankfully he is also afraid of the cost of litigation and some information I have about him that would come to light. I am hopeful these factors will allow us to reach an agreement at some point.
You want a competent attorney who knows and understands the law and has collaborative relationship with peers. You want them to have an attitude toward reaching the best resolution as quickly and inexpensively as possible. Keep in mind that fewer than 5% of divorces are litigated to trial. The majority settle along the way. Assuming the settlement is adequate, the faster you settle the less money you save.
In my case my H is giving me more money than even the agreement (which is unsigned) requires at this point. I anticipate that will change next month. He has no history of depriving me or the kids of funds, if he did, I would not be messing around. I have made it very clear to him that if I do not have the agreed amount of money in my account on a specific day of each month that I will go and file for support, which he does not want.
I get that you don't want to run out and do anything. But also the present situation does not seem to be a good one for anyone. How about doing as has been suggested and sending him a business email (which you could also use to validate him).
Dear H, I want you to know that I have heard and understood you when you have explained to me your reasons for seeking to leave the marriage. While I do not believe that our marriage is irretrievably lost and I do believe that with counseling and patience we could work through this, I understand that it only takes one person to leave a marriage and I can't force you to stay.
Again, while this is not what I want, I respect your right to make this choice. I would like for us to resolve the issues between us as amicably and inexpensively as possible, as I believe a contentious process would be both fiscally unsound and could be detrimental to the boys.
While you take the time to get yourself organized and move forward with what it is you plan to do, I would like for us to come to an interim agreement for child support and visitation. I think you agree that having you on the couch on an irregular basis could be confusing and upsetting for the kids.
In terms of a schedule I propose _____________________________. I just want to make sure that you have your own place with appropriate accomodations for the boys before you begin taking them with you overnight.
In terms of support, as you know the cost to maintain our household monthly (considering mortgage/rent, insurance, food, utilities, health care, etc.) is _____________. Which means that I will need for you to pay me __________ on the _________ day or the month. [Or alternatively the amount of money you have been providing is sufficient for the time being--whatever the actual case is).
While I am sad that we have reached this place, I want to make sure that we are working together to ensure that the boys always come first and their needs are being met. I want to assure you that I know that they need you as an active part of their lives and I want to do what I can to make sure we are working together as productively as possible.
Yes I don't want to spend a ton of money but I also want someone that's going to get what's best for the kids and I. H and I agreed last time it was best for the kids to stay in their home Monday through Friday overnight and he could come spend two nights a week with them but that they should be in their home during the school week. Then he went back on that which is why I think it's a waste of my time to try and get him to come to terms and to be honest I won't bend on anything that I don't have to. This is what he wanted and this is what he had to do to take away from 100% attention to the boys, the new baby, and my school work so I'm not going to go out of my way to make it easy on him. BUT with that said IF there is a way that benefits the kids and I and saves me money I'm all for it.
I ended up sending H a text just now 1025pm - H its getting late, I just put the baby down, s6 is sleeping. And S9 is about to go to bed, no need to come here to help.
Each day he just gets worse and worse. He hasn't held the baby since Sunday. I gave him the baby the other night when he was fussing and he had him in the swing. He hasn't spent anytime with the boys since Saturday night. But whatever, hopefully he's just showing me he doesn't want them.
BTW own, I was in such a rush before I didn't get to say thank you for taking the time to send that email. I'm sure it would throw H for a loop ... with that said are you thinking I should do this INSTEAD of filing for support and custody? Or send this email and go forward with filing?
I would think it would defeat the purpose Of the email to file behind his back ... which I'm not against.
Something has to be done ASAP because he strolled in here at 1130 ignoring my message to not come and the baby was screaming as he always is at that time. He didn't even come in here to check on the baby say hello to him or goodnight to the boys who were here in my room as well. He basically came in showered got his mail and went on the couch to sleep and watch TV. This is not a hotel and he continues to come later and later.. like I'm dumb enough to believe he was at work.
F him seriously. My boys deserve better. This baby deserves a father who wants to hold him and let him get to know him more than once a week. Seriously F him.
I mean taking the time to type up that email gahhh sorry! My mind is discombobulated and I am on major lack of sleep and am nursing and typing with one hand on my phone.
[quote=T384]Yes I don't want to spend a ton of money but I also want someone that's going to get what's best for the kids and I. since my h has hired a pit bull, frankly, I wish I had. Seems H WANTS to litigate b/c there's no statute saying he can be compelled to work until he's 65, but other case law saying EVEN IF he quit his job (a lie) that he can be compelled to work until then.
So I guess despite having a no fault divorce and no custody issues, we are going to Trial!
H's 'offer" seems to be "good luck", so I don't have much of a choice. But it turns out it sure would have been easier if my L had started out with a more aggressive posture.
I really feel that IF this is a tactic by h, and it may be, we could have ended it by now.
And IF H has grabbed our nest egg (against court orders which matter NOT to h)
then what? I"m screwed. And h gets away with it...
You never want a L who churns fees (and informs the other side of something, weeks after you tell them, rather than right away, prolonging the ordeal).
I"m NOT saying to hire an $$hole, but you need a poker player at least...and not one who bluffs in a way they won't back up with action.
Like boundaries that need enforcing...
That's my .02
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
H is giving 2 L's the money he could have given THIS L, the one who had his kids...
and I think if I had hired more aggressive lawyer(s), at the start, I might be done with all this and have money in my pocket, and I'd be moving forward in my life without the $word of Damocles over my head and hindering me...
sometimes I think if we had mediated, I'd regret it b/c in my state, mediation only works when the payor isn't a jerk. My h is a jerk, evidently.
He's risking a lot of money and 4 relationships that once meant a lot to him, to save a year or 2 of spousal support. It's irrational.
But my thought is that spending more money up front, will lead to more money for my future (and my kids b/c I now doubt h will even leave them a cent. )
if they were little kids, I would not take a chance on this.
I know others do not agree - and they might be right!!
I'm in the trenches at the moment, so you should take what I say with a grain of salt.
But I'd be remiss if I didn't pass on whatever the he11 I am learning.
((( )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
FWIW, once I realized that Mr. Fantastic is a liar, I had to act on the fact that he is a liar. For me that meant I got a job and put every single penny I had towards the lawyer, while praying every day that Mr. Fantastic didn't empty the bank account. I didn't take money out of the account myself because I didn't want to start cr@p like that before I had the settlement. But I bit my nails and checked the accounts every day.
EVERY PENNY I spent on that lawyer was worth it. He went to Mr. Fantastic's place of work and got a copy of his employment contract personally, which made an impression on Mr. F's boss. I had to sell the house so I made sure Mr. F had to pay the realtor commission, on the grounds that we closed on the house after he started the affair and I wasn't going to suffer the financial consequences of his stupidity. My lawyer was aggressive and I know it worked because Mr. Fantastic called me to tell me what an idiot I was for hiring a shark and that we ought to be sorting things out on our own. No, Mr. F, YOU ARE A LIAR and NOT TO BE TRUSTED.
He got mad at me but I have a GREAT settlement that will take care of my family until my kids graduate from high school and I have enough money to get a good start on a nest egg of my own. The very first payment post-settlement Mr. F sent the child support check late, I gave him hell till it came in, and the payments have been like clockwork since.
BE MIGHTY, T, and don't take sh!t anymore. Kick his sorry a$$ like he deserves and don't fear him. These liars are cowards and vampires who can't stand the light of day. Get a good aggressive lawyer who is ON YOUR SIDE -- a pit bull is OK if you trust that they have your best interests at heart (meaning, they talk about how to be aggressive on your behalf while keeping the bills reasonable).
Good luck, and good job finally getting mad at him. Looks like your heart is starting to listen to your head.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
T, I think his behavior is the distancer trying to get the pursuer to pursue.
He's backed off and still came home even though you asked him not to (only to not lift a finger with the kids) because he wants you to get angry and pursue him via a fight.
You were advised in your last thread to start acting as if he is not there and not count on him at all. He can do whatever he wants to do. Your text let him know you noticed he wasn't there, and that you'd like his involvement with the kids (because the logic was kids were asleep so he's not needed) so he's doing the opposite of what you want to try to make you angry. He's still showing up and not helping when he does. That's not a coincidence.
You're being baited. H is going to do what he's going to do. You should be so absorbed in living life on your own that his comings and goings don't matter. You should assume he won't help with the kids because then you won't get angry when he doesn't - maybe you'll occasionally be pleasantly surprised, instead. There's no need to text him, or give him any idea what you want from him, because this version of H will take it, run with it, and do the opposite in the hopes your emotions get the better of you.
Remember that he wants you to blow up and argue. It helps him feel less guilty and confirms the "T is to blame for my unhappiness because she's always upset with me and nothing is ever enough" storyline.
Note: please don't confuse the "H is a nonentity in childcare" for not formalizing the childcare. The former is a short term solution where you don't rely on him for anything and thus he cannot stoke your anger. The latter is what you should be striving for.
You're being baited. H is going to do what he's going to do. You should be so absorbed in living life on your own that his comings and goings don't matter. You should assume he won't help with the kids because then you won't get angry when he doesn't - maybe you'll occasionally be pleasantly surprised, instead. There's no need to text him, or give him any idea what you want from him, because this version of H will take it, run with it, and do the opposite in the hopes your emotions get the better of you.
Maybe a shark is not needed, but I'm saying do what it takes to get a wage garnishment or direct deposit from your h's income
so you are not waiting for him to "GIVE" you money every month.
I think money h has sent me has, literally, arrived on different days and or in different amounts every single month. Not once has he texted or emailed to say it's coming/won't be, how much, etc. Never.
Hard to make plans with that type of budget.
T3, here's what I believe you must hammer into your mind about your h
which you resist...
your h lies by commission
he gives out inadequate information, (lies by omission)
or pieces of the truth intended to deceive ("I told you I was riding the motorcycle" TRUE ---"I did not say I bought it")
My "great guy" DOCTOR h, will not do the right thing when no one is looking.
And even when they are looking, he distorts the narrative so much he has no apparent remorse or negative consequence that he cares about...
He does such mindfu#kery that I'm sitting here empty handed, seeing my d19 without college money, money which h is either hoarding or spending on his new family -where I presume he is adored for his awesomeness and
after 35 years of marriage I have no financial security, yet. Me Working full time is mandatory, but my resume has an 18 year gap...h has a pristine resume (you're welcome).
H hid money I now don't get unless I spend a lot of borrowed cash to hunt for it, and
I could go on --- but as far as I know, this is New behavior from my h. I would not have predicted it. I'm still, sadly, able to be disappointed by him. H has erased our family and marriage. And I'm incredulous.
I'm saying you are as forewarned as you get. Forewarned is forearmed.
Get as much financial info as you can without having to subpoena his records and look for a trail to other "him only" accounts.
Would his boss help him hide income? I don't want you to spin, I want you to protect yourself & your boys & tell your L this.
A guy who can justify an affair with a pregnant wife and walk away from her & 3 boys including a newborn,
and had an affair before, and blames HER for making him leave "Because she doesn't trust him enough", is already doing things most men would not justify. (I would hope).
I am sorrier than you can know.
But as I said, i'm in the trenches now. So on one hand I'm learning valuable lessons I want to pass on, on the other hand I'm trying not to project.
Learn what you can, disregard the rest.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I think you need to do something. You seem stuck in a paralyzed mode watching this stuff happening and feeling powerless to do anything about it.
I would prefer to see you hire a competent attorney who will advocate for you but not turn this into WWIII. Swift, decisive action is always a good thing. I'd like to see you hit him with the support and custody case with no advance warning. He is sitting there feeling as though he has all the cards. The strolling in the house every night is ridiculous. I would seek a kick out order as part of the support and custody case.
If you can't bring yourself to do that or don't think you can pay for it, then I would send the letter. If he didn't respond or didn't respond appropriately, I would then file the case without any mention of it to him.
I think 25's situation is different from yours. I think if I were to file for divorce, I would be in 25's situation but I think there is a lot of narcissism with both of our H's that I haven't seen with yours.
Yours seems more like a petulant child to me, less menacing. I think standing up to him as Train has suggested again and again would knock him for a loop.
I haven't yet heard back from my friend, but I checked on some profiles for folks in your area. Elaine Silver is one I would definitely call. She has the right board certifications, she only does family law, she can help with collaborative divorce if it comes to that, she seems to focus on resolving disputes.
I'm not responding with advice, because you are getting the very best of the best on here already. But I do want to throw in my thanks to the ones who are advising you on practical matters about asking for what you rightly deserve.
Although I'm in Washington, and truly enjoying my time here with D, and staying busy, in the back of my mind there is always lurking the settlement proposal that is still a work in progress. I wake up after maybe 4 hours sleep, then I just have to GET up and start making notes of the things swirling in my head.
This settlement proposal may very well be the most important document I will ever have drafted and sent, and I must get it right the first time, or I will have regrets for the rest of my life. I've worked and given (both in time, physical effort, and finances that should have been part of my inheritance) too much to have helped him rise to the top and make a quarter of a million a year, to have to be awake in the night trying to figure out if I can live off my social security and paltry teacher retirement just to make ends meet.
Not today, *itch, not today.
M-60 H-51 M-14 years BD 12/26/16 S 1/1/17
"First the pain, then the rising." Glennon Doyle Melton
Leah, let me know if you want to meet for a skinny hot chocolate while in the area (I don't do coffee). I spent a lot of time on my separation contract and might be able to offer some suggestions.
Haha Train, I hope I'm here to stay, I felt it coming yesterday and after I found that letter that basically depicted everything here and now it was like really? Then last night him lying about being at work and having the nerve to still come here at 1130pm.
Okay so me texting him was not pursuit I promise or me trying to control him. I have told him I didn't want him coming to the house. So he text me at 8pm saying he was coming to the house, well by 1030pm he wasn't here yet and I had FINALLY gotten the baby to bed and was letting him know not to come here that late, the kids were sleeping, essentially no need for him to come-and him coming here the dogs would bark like crazy as they do when people come home and wake the baby up. That was the point. When he said he was already on his way (which was not the truth) I didn't reply and I didn't say one word to him when he got here.
This is me mindreading and a waste of time but I’m going to say it anyway, something has definitely changed. He, before, was going to his boss’s house if he was working late because she lives much closer to his work and he didn’t want to have to drive all the way back here only to drive an hour to work again (his boss lives only 15 minutes from their work). Anyway, now he’s ‘working’ later but willing to drive all the way here. I haven’t asked him to come here to help or asked him to do anything for the kids in a month since the ONE Saturday night I went out. So he can’t stay at her house if he’s lying about really working because she would know that he’s not really at work and god forbid she actually know that he’s a liar. All of this means nothing except that it [censored] for me because as long as he can’t go to her house he will continue to come here.
Maybell- that's what I want, someone that is willing to fight for what's right for the boys and I. I may be that scorned woman and you guys may not agree with it but I want everything the boys and I are entitled to. H had NOTHING when he entered this relationship and because of me and my family he has been able to relocate and work long hours and now is making A LOT of money and my expense and it's only fair that the boys and I get what we are entitled to in order to live a comfortable life, it's the least we deserve for going through this a second time. So if I have to spend a little extra to get a little more in the long run it will be money well spent.
Cadence – I don’t know that I agree that he is trying to get me to pursue. He could care less about what I’m doing or even talking to me. I do act as if he is not here, and DO NOT count on him for ANYTHING. I have not asked for one thing to help with the boys AT ALL. I have made all arrangements for the kids through my parents and/or friends as needed. Everything is taken care of as far as soccer, pick ups, drop offs, who’s watching while I’m at school, I have a final exam and a patient evaluation Monday – all taken care of. HeII, H doesn’t even know my schedule to know when I have school or when I’m home.
I just sent the text about the kids being asleep as there’s no reason for him to come… I feel like he’s trying to create a paper trail with his now every night do you need anything? Or I’m still at work, be there soon. So, my response was that the kids were sleeping so if he is keeping track of things he can’t say I’m trying to keep him away, I’m simply letting him know they are sleeping so he wouldn’t be able to spend time with them that late anyway. If that makes sense, that was truly my rationale.
I’m used to him not helping at this point, sad for the kids – yes. I won’t engage in an argument, I haven’t for a long time and don’t plan on starting now, I have come too far. I’m fine with him not helping, like I said, hopeful that this shows he won’t fight me for custody. Plus I’m used to doing this alone at this point, it doesn’t even upset me as it used to. I did that last weekend at soccer alone and did just fine. Ya it sucked doing it alone but I was okay and we survived.
So do I just not text him at all to not come here no matter how late it is? Just let him come and go as he pleases until I file legal paperwork? Or should I ask him again to stop coming here? Kind of confused on that aspect.
I feel like he’s waiting for me to tell him not to come here anymore, so that he can say it’s my fault he left, that I made him.
25 – My dad says the same thing about my H, character is what you do when people aren’t watching… and we all know what that is. And yes this [censored], your H sound like an older version of mine. It rings true what you say about being admired by the new awesome family. My dad says he can picture the boss and her family and her daughter introducing him, hey I’ve got this great guy for you, he makes 6 figures, is a hard worker… over the dinner table so H tell us about yourself, well umm I’m separated and I have 3 boys… oh awesome! How old are they?? 9, 6 and 2 months. Oh 2 months? But wait havent you two been seeing each other for 5 months?
This is just the stuff my dad comes up with to entertain me and make me laugh on my days where I’m sad. He tells me the only people that believe he’s SO AWESOME are just the same category as him – lower than low.
And remember – leopards don’t change their spots, in time they will see him for who he really is. He’s just on good behavior right now.
Leah – I hope you’re having a nice time! Remember that nothing has to be done immediately and it’s better to think it out and really scrutinize everything. I, like you, feel I have afforded H the lifestyle he has with family money and inheritance as well which is why I am so keen on getting what I deserve since he has quadrupled his income since we met.
Ownit- I spoke with Elaine today, she wanted me to try and get H to come for mediation and work out without lawyers to have an uncontested divorce. I told her I don’t know if I’m there yet to sit down at table with him sharing a mediator to figure things out. She told me that any lawyer is going to have H wait until I’m done with school and making good money. She advised me not to stop school at this time and said I need to go on with my life. My concern is we will be making the same money and then he won’t have to pay me any child support. She referred me to a colleague near me for litigation purposes if I want to go that route. I also left messages with a few other attorneys in the area and plan on spending my break from school finding someone I like. Unfortunately I am inundated with schoolwork until next Thursday and really don’t have time to meet with anyone until after that, then I start back to work next week so I’m not sure how it’s going to work out but where there’s a will there’s a way. Maybe I can do phone consultations.
- my thanks to the ones who are advising you on practical matters about asking for what you rightly deserve. - always lurking the settlement proposal that is still a work in progress. - the things swirling in my head. This settlement proposal may very well be the most important document I will ever have drafted and sent, and I must get it right the first time, or I will have regrets for the rest of my life.
This^^ DOCUMENT IS BY FAR THE MOST IMPORTANT FINANCIAL TRANSACTION
OF YOUR LIFE.
PERIOD.
I've worked and given (both in time, physical effort, and finances that should have been part of my inheritance) too much to have helped him rise to the top and make a quarter of a million a year, to have to be awake in the night trying to figure out if I can live off my social security and paltry teacher retirement just to make ends meet.
Not today, *itch, not today.
indeed.
My s31 ("our son") sent me the Rhanna youtube video & suggested it be a mantra for me. The title -
"B1tch better gimme my money".
The video is hilarious, especially given the context. I use humor as a coping tool, which is another thing I love about ME!!!
-signed
the Doctor's First W
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Hi T. I don't have anything to add. I'm a newbie to this whole disastrous WH sitch. But I basically read all your posts and I am so sorry you are in this sitch again. But I wanted you to know you are an inspiration to me. I too feel like I'm spiraling out of control. One minute I'm screaming mad and the next I know I will be ok if H never comes back. I have admiration for you because of how you are handling things. I am always angry at H. And even tho I know I need to keep my mouth shut I keep spewing forth my anger. All this advice that people have given you has helped me so much. My H has moved into his own little rental home but not come and got his stuff. He doesn't talk divorce, but he says he's done. We still work together every day. Which is so hard to detach when I see him everyday. But anyways you are my inspiration. I am in awe of how you have handled things and compose yourself. So thank you for sharing your story. I am so sorry you are here. But I wanted to you to know how much of a help you and the other posters have been. Thank you.
I'd love to meet with you but have no idea on these boards how to even come close to us sharing that information of how to meet up. I'd even love to be able to email with you, b/c then I could send you my lawyer's draft and some of my info, for your input. If there's a way that I am not aware of, clue me in.
M-60 H-51 M-14 years BD 12/26/16 S 1/1/17
"First the pain, then the rising." Glennon Doyle Melton
I don’t know that I agree that he is trying to get me to pursue. He could care less about what I’m doing or even talking to me.
T, I don't think you're understanding what is meant by pursuit. This isn't romantic pursuit. It's more that he wants to trigger you into being angry and telling him he's an %$#%%$ and yada yada yada.
It lessens his guilt if he can get emotional reactions from you. They don't have to be positive emotional reactions; he wants negative ones.
Whether you think he cares what you do or don't do doesn't matter. You've had a major pursuer/distancer dynamic since BD, and it allowed him to confirm his ideas about you and to distance himself further. He would be very uncomfortable with a you that was calm centered and didn't give him anything to work with.
I agree with Cadence. And also want to comment on something from your earlier post- about whether you should even answer his texts about when he's coming home, etc. Although I understand you logic behind saying, I've got it under control, no need to come by, etc., I think if I were you I'd ignore every single text and not answer unless the house was on fire. HOWEVER, I'd have a little spiral notebook in my pocket at all times, and record every time he does it, what time of night it is, kids already asleep, he came in, said nothing to anyone, showered, got on couch. Say nothing to him. Nothing. You're not DBing to save the marriage any more. You're a Mama Tiger who is protecting her future and that of her babies. Document, document, document, but without any interaction with him. Don't give him that space in your life or your head.
M-60 H-51 M-14 years BD 12/26/16 S 1/1/17
"First the pain, then the rising." Glennon Doyle Melton
Oh okay, I didn't think to look at it that way I thought pursuit and distance was meant in a relationship way if that makes sense... like him coming closer to ask about me, wandering what I'm doing, etc that kind of pursuit.
I do not respond to texts unless they ask a question. Like if he asks if we need anything, I reply no thanks or we're good. Last night he text that he was coming to the house at 8pm, I didn't respond because it didn't necessitate one. The text I sent later on about not to come was because it was so late.
So should I not respond even when he asks if I need anything? I could see that causing more animosity. But if you guys think that's what's best I'll do it. That's the only communication we have is if I respond to that. Other then that we do not talk at all. He doesn't say hello or goodnight,etc. and I had been saying hello or goodnight to him if he didn't say it to me but I've stopped.
I don't see anyone telling you not to respond so I'm not sure where you're getting that.
What would a strong unflappable woman who was unconcerned do? She'd probably respond if she saw he'd texted her. Maybe not right away - whenever she happened to see it.
She would not, however, be contacting him because of the time. She'd be so wrapped up in going about her business, she wouldn't notice if he wasn't there.
Sorry I was responding to Leah when she said ignore every text unless the house was on fire
I will do just that then. I'll respond to what requires a response that is emotionless and to the point in as few words as possible and if it doesn't require a response I won't send one.
I am a bit confused by all the advice on here. In regards to filing first, and throwing him off guard, getting the upper hand, using texts in court, etc. I can't imagine that any of this benefits you. First of all, I don't think you should make any major decisions based on how you think he will react (that is the opposite of DB). I think you should really think about everything you need and want in a D, then get some solid advice on the easiest and less expensive way to achieve that outcome. The goal isn't to send a message to him or snap him out of it, the goal is to get you a good custody arrangement and fair financial support.
Here is the thing though, family court services have little time for he said/she said. Him texting you to "prove he's trying" is a moot point. Can you imagine if the court entertained the 100 billion text messages between people going through divorce? Perhaps if you had some solid emails proposing a schedule for the kids that he continually ignored or didn't follow through on, that could come up? And even then, if it's in mediation, it often becomes less important than what you will agree to moving forward.
I know I sound like a broken record, but I think you should go as dark as possible and only email in a very concise and formal way. why even speak to him or text him at all right now? That gets you no where. As soon as he pouts, put your hand up and tell him to respond to your email. I like the way Ownit put it. In that email you can let him know that you would like to move forward and have a predicable and stable schedule for the boys. You make it crystal clear that he is not to spend the night, that he is not to come after a certain time, and that he should only come on these nights. This is what is best for the kids and this is what you need! I could give 2 chits what he thinks about this or how he responds (whhaaa waaaahhh whaa)!
This is also helps you feel as if you are getting some power back here. There is no reason his dumb arse should be coming by late at night and sleeping on the couch. Okay maybe you don't have a legal right to kick him out, but why should that stop you from trying? If it were me (and I did have times this came up), I would walk right over to him, look him square in the eye, and tell him that this isn't working, please leave, and stick to the schedule or email a response with revisions. I drew very firm lines and stuck to them; I did not let him eat one slice of cake once I realized what I had to do.
So would this upset him enough that he would make a change? Good. Because THIS isn't working. Would it upset him enough that he would pull finances ... honestly, if that is the kind of jack hole that he is, then I am sorry, but he will do it at some point anyhow. You cannot walk on egg shells for this guy anymore. You and the boys deserve a safe and quiet space and to know when he will come and go, and that time should only be when the kids are awake, and then he leaves!!!
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
TBH I am scared to send something in writing asking him not to come to our house except XYZ, I don't want it to hurt me from a legal stand point which is why I really need to get an attorney I trust and get some good legal advice on if it would hurt me to make him leave... He left June 14th and was gone for a week, his things are still gone as if he doesn't live here, yet he sleeps here 6/7 nights a week now. Again, if none of this matters to the courts, then great. I will do just that, but I don't want it to be turned around to hurt me in the long run for custody purposes that *I* kicked him out
He got here at 630p, went and said hi to the boys and didn't say a word to me, neither did I. He showered and ate dinner. S6 and I were watching a movie in my room with the baby while I'm working on homework and he comes in and sits down on the bed with us to say hi to the baby and ask S6 about the movie were watching... I completely ignored him, acted as if he wasn't even sitting there. Then he takes the baby out to the living room and is all happy and talkative. My dad said it's his guilty conscience from coming home after 10-11pm the last 3 nights.
I just want him out of the house, I wish I could just erase him from my life and not have to deal with seeing him being so fake.
I'm sure I'm coming off as royal you know what not even looking at him or acknowledging him especially in front of the kids but I really don't have it in me. Maybe in a couple days I'll be able to be fake nice but not right now.
And yes I am beyond confused on what I should do, I am not doing anything to snap him out of it or get a reaction. I don't want to spend the little money I do have to get a 'reaction' it is going to be spent because it's what's best for the boys and I. We already wasted 10K last BD both for retainers for L so I am not going to waste money again, if I'm going to do it it's going to be to get something done.
So email, no email, file, don't file, I have no clue. Like I said I am apprehensive to send an email telling him not to come here. I don't mind sending an email about a proposed schedule but a large part of me says screw him, don't trust him, don't waste my time trying to play nice with him. That I cannot TRUST anything he's doing so why trust trying to figure out custody. Plus to be honest I don't think I have it in me to sit and have a conversation with him without blowing up with the way I feel right now. Again, I'm sure this will change but it's just how I feel in this moment. He thinks he has life knocked, that he holds all the cards, he comes and goes as he pleases, is a dad when it's good for him, is out with whomever when it's good for him, gets his family time when he wants, it has to stop. I even told him Sunday when we talked and when I said I didn't want him staying here anymore that he made me uncomfortable in my own home, that I don't want to be around him anymore than I have to.
Filing for custody and support absolutely benefits T, Blu. No one is encouraging her to file for D, however. They're apparently separate issues in Fla. Getting child support takes 3-4 months after a person files for support there, if I'm understanding T correctly. Is that right, T?
H isn't predictable. He's a liar. The *most important people* in this entire equation are those boys. And T has history and experience: H has pulled funding before, and she knows he will do it again - potentially just out of spite.
I believe it is very reasonable advice to say T should file for support/custody asap.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
T one thing at a time: you need to finish all this school work. Then you need to find an attorney that you like and believe understands your goals (but first you have to know them yourself).
Courts don't care about the minutiae. Keep a journal as suggested but don't try to strategically text. He's either being a dad, or he isn't. He's either helping or he isn't.
Take some time, figure out what you want deep down inside. At the first sign he's messing with the money, take action. Right now no one can help you because don't know what you want. That will become clear.
He left June 14th and was gone for a week, his things are still gone as if he doesn't live here, yet he sleeps here 6/7 nights a week now. Again, if none of this matters to the courts, then great. ^^^this is a man with a plan and or, who has seen a L...
Sorry
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I am a bit confused by all the advice on here. In regards to filing first, and throwing him off guard, getting the upper hand, using texts in court, etc. I can't imagine that any of this benefits you.
Filing first ABSOLUTELY benefited me. In Tennessee there are two courts you can file in: circuit court, and chancery court. Circuit court has multiple judges and serves multiple counties. Chancery court has one judge and serves a single county. Had STBXW filed first, she could have filed in chancery court, which in my county is served by a 75 year old judge who believes young children ALWAYS belong with their mother. I would be lucky to see my daughter every other weekend, despite the fact that she has been living with me sunday through friday every week. By filing in circuit court, we had half a dozen judges who the case could have been assigned to in case the divorce was contested, giving us a far better chance of preserving the status quo.
Other states are undoubtedly different, but blanket advice like the above probably hurts more than it helps. Ask an attorney about issues like that, don't rely on the crowdsourced wisdom of the internet.
I have kept screen shots of everything in the event it does make a difference.
25 - I don't think he's seen a lawyer but I do believe he is being coached by someone that knows this.
He's been talking a lot to EX boss--- the one who's daughter he left me for last time whose couch he lived on ... the ex boss found him the L last time and paid to help him get D from me. So I imagine since they haven't talked in years (NC was agreed upon when we R) that H is asking for his help.
He is such a POS. Came in my room to say goodnight to the boys. Doesn't kiss the baby or anything if I'm holding him god forbid he gets too close to me. He said goodnight to the boys not a word to me, mind you they are laying in bed right next to me so it's not like I'm far away, anyway S9 said you have to kiss mommmy and say goodnight. H acted like he didn't hear and asked what movie they were watching. S9 kept saying it like 5 times and H ignored so I finally said S9 shhh and H walked out.
I get that I'm not saying goodnight or hello or even acknowledging his existence but I feel like this is not good in front of the kids. Should I start doing those things even if he doesn't? I am fine not talking to him but I think it sets a bad example for the boys and I don't want to be stooping to his level.
Ugh, kind of spinning today, not in an emotional way but more of stress/what if thoughts.
The big soccer game is tomorrow night, it hasn't been discussed but I know H assumes he's going. He asked me last week, isn't that soccer game next Saturday, I just replied yup.
My dad thinks he should come - which then we got into a little tift because I'm like you told him his life wouldn't be this way so why are you telling me I should allow him to come? I feel so confused.
H has started the last few days leaving his laundry in our family laundry basket. This is something he hasn't done since BD in March. He kept it separate, even after he moved out he kept it in his truck, now the last few nights I found his clothes in there and my dad even did them and folded them all. Point being, I don't care but now when I'm at school and my dad is here at the house he's doing H's laundry. Like really?so basically I feel like it's showing H that my dad's words of this won't be his life aren't being shown to him. Sure buddy, just go out all night, come here whenever you want, we will do your laundry and hell you can even come to the soccer game with us.
I know I am just ranting because I'm frustrated in this moment and am questioning my decision. Do I just allow him to come for the boys sake? I am genuinely asking because I was certain on not inviting him, I had already even asked one of the boy's friends to come but they ended up buying their own tickets at the last minute.
Anyway, I recognize my spiraling (Cadence haha)
Just feel like he is you know whatting all over me and I felt like the soccer game was going to be me finally standing up that he won't participate in family activities and now I am second guessing myself because my family all thinks I should just let him go and put my differences aside for the boys since we bought these tickets a long time ago and planned to go together.
I don't know what the right decision is anymore...
I wish I did, I just want to do what's best for the boys
What would your boys want? My children are 8 and 6, if it was an event and they wanted their mom to attend I would figure out a way to get through it emotionally even though she walked out on us. I have not been following your sitch that close so please take that into consideration.
Your family seems like they love you very much. However, they sure are telling you (and your H) what to do, how to do it, and when to do it.....then go against what they said.
Maybe you don't know don't know what the right decision is because you have a bunch of people telling you. Plus, you are trying so hard (in your mind) to actually save the marriage.
So, why don't you step back, drown out everyone, (including us) and really decide what you want your boundaries to be. Not as a tactic to get him to suffer loss or to get him back. Just what actually feels right and somewhat not torturous to you.
I won't tell you what I think you should do on this one, although I do have an opinion .
It's good to look for advice or listen to unsolicited advice sometimes, but when it's clouding your ability to see things from your own point of view, it's time to shut everyone else out and sort it out with yourself.
.....and a side note..... Idon't know exactly what you do for a living, but it sure does seem like you are a medical professional. Anabolic steroids? Those don't exactly put him in his right mind....
He is such a POS. Came in my room to say goodnight to the boys. Doesn't kiss the baby or anything if I'm holding him god forbid he gets too close to me. He said goodnight to the boys not a word to me, mind you they are laying in bed right next to me so it's not like I'm far away, anyway S9 said you have to kiss mommmy and say goodnight. H acted like he didn't hear and asked what movie they were watching. S9 kept saying it like 5 times and H ignored so I finally said S9 shhh and H walked out.
Stooping to his level? What? You gonna emotionally balckmail the guy to say goodnight? Come on, T, don't do that kind of stuff and then say it's for the sake of the kids. You just sat there while S9 continued trying to get your H to say goodnight.....how many times? Why would you do that? I'm sorry, but there is nothing attractive about a woman allowing her child to go on & on.......b/c it strongly hints of you wanting to see H respond with some type of acknowledgement of you.
I wonder sometimes if I am the only one who see LBS's lie to themselves about how some action is for their kids.....IDK, maybe it's just that I am the only one who would dare suggest it. IMHO, this has more to do with your feelings for H, than with the kids. I think it would only hurt you, to impose these actions on a man who clearly does not want it. If you don't want the kids seeing it, then step out of the room when he enters. Why are they all in your room when you know he's going in there to tell them goodnight?
As I've previously suggested, you need to have a conversation with the boys. If you don't, then S9 will continue asking H along on family outings and pushing him to kiss mommy goodnight. Is your subconscious wanting S9 to do it?
I still think H has been advised to spend xx amount of time in the home, either so you can't charge for abandonment, or whatever. I don't think he wants to be there for the sake of the kids. It's too obvious he is not trying to bond with his baby.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Yes I feel confused because my family just wants whats best for the boys but I don't feel like what's best for them always aligns with what's best for me so I struggle there. My mom and dad have only talked to H once and that was just recently, prior to that for the first 4 months or so nothing was said to him. My uncle and he are pretty close and what he says to him is on his own accord with what little knowledge he has of the situation, which is just that he moved out.
Yes, the steroids mess with his mind and he started them in early May right after the baby was born, that's when he becamse more quiet/distant/secretive but who knows if it was coincidental, I haven't put much thought into it besides recognizing he may have 'roid rage' lol
Hi Sandi,
Umm so regarding last night or the goodnight in general. I didn't look at is blackmail, I just thought it would be polite in front of the boys and I wouldn't do it otherwise, but if you think it's bad then I won't do it and I will leave the room when he comes in to say goodnight. The only issue is that the boys sleep in bed with me now and we watch a movie together every night before bed. H stays on the couch during this time and there is no set time that I can anticipate him coming to the bedroom. Normally, I had been sending the boys out there around 10pm to say goodnight so that he didn't have to come in my room. However, the last few nights he has been coming in here himself before that.. but I will just start sending them out there earlier.
I didn't say anything to S9 because I don't really know why. He knows H doesn't do that, I have had the talk with both the boys about what is going on so they both know these things and don't ask about him coming places with us anymore. They really don't ask about him at all TBH. S9 remembers last time, so he has distanced himself from H. S6 greets H at the door and will spend time with him if H asks.
So I will continue doing what I'm doing and not acknowledging H. I already said something to S9 last night about not saying stuff like that to H and I reminded S6 the same thing because he was laying in bed with us when we talked about it.
And yes, I definitely believe someone is advising him I just don't know that he's gotten legal representation yet, but I could be wrong. I made a couple of phone consults for next week. As soon as I get the clear of telling him he's not welcome here as long as it won't hurt me for custody purposes I am going to do it.
I still feel super torn about tomorrow and no closer to my decision.
I think all of us are trying to help in our own way, b/c we can see your confusion and the struggles you are having. I give very little to the subject of what to do legally, b/c I know very little about it. Based on posts scattered across the board, it seems strange that most LBH's take a major hit from his WW........and it was either your thread or some other LBW's that their lawyer indicated the WH would practically be untouched. Maybe the secret is in being the WAS. . (JK).
It has been my experience to notice how LBS's biggest DB struggles appear to be in balancing a new application. It doesn't help, if they are receiving various avenues of advice. Considering their emotional state, there's no wonder they feel confused. Sometimes, it helps to take a few days away from everyone's opinion. With your finals coming, don't bog down with all of us talking in your ear here.
I want to help you if I see you getting confused or out of balance about your actions, and that's why I wrote what I did in my previous post.
I know you are going do what is best for your little guys......and for you, too. Sometimes you have to take a day at a time, and sometimes, you have to keep the big picture view.
Not at all sure why your dad suggested H going along to the game. I see no purpose for the two of you going together.........not while you are trying to detach and drop the rope. Once divorced, will both sides of the family travel together to the games? Meh, who knows, but right now you are just trying to get to the point you don't care what he does......and you are not there yet. No wonder you get confused!
When all else fails to compute, do what you think if best, T.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I'm with Ginger on the soccer game (and divorce or separation for that matter). I think we all care about you and want to help you, that like Blu says, it is too much advice. You have to dig in and figure out what is best for you. As all these divergent opinions should tell you, there is no right way to do this. There can be regrets and mistakes with any path you choose. Ultimately you and the boys have to live with the decisions you make.
I sure would love to borrow your dad. You are a lucky girl. Have fun at the soccer game, with or without H.
I agree, T, just go and have fun. And FYI, today when we met IRL, Ownit and I both agreed if we could, we would drive to your house, hug you and your boys, (and your sweet Dad), kick H's a$$, then do whatever we need to do to be your wolfpack. LOL.
Life's too short, girlfriend. Just live it one day at the time.
((((T)))))
M-60 H-51 M-14 years BD 12/26/16 S 1/1/17
"First the pain, then the rising." Glennon Doyle Melton
Leah - I would looveee that!! We would have such a good time and you guys would love my dad in person even more so than what I write about him on here, I seriously am so lucky to have him and I know that even if we butt heads every now and again. He had a few drinks in him this afternoon and was cracking me up.
Sandi and Own - there is so much different advice for particulars but it leads to the same goal - drop the rope, stop caring what he's doing or how what interaction will affect XYZ. I know I am still operating with fear and I'm working on that. I feel I have gotten better with day to day interactions and what not but I know that I am not detached as I should be and I still analyze my actions. I hope that once I have legal representation and a financial plan with the L that I will let go of if I do A will he do B. I am very concerned about him yanking finances and unfortunately that's what drives a lot of my fear and choices.
I don't want him to go tomorrow, I really don't. I know I will have more fun without him. We are tailgating with a bunch of other families that we normally hang with and I know it will infuriate me seeing H there acting like we are a happy little family. I invited my brother to go and haven't heard back from him so I'm hoping that may be my easy way out.
I made sure to be gone tonight when H came to the house. I took the boys to dinner and then we went and hung at a friends house. I stayed there until about 11pm and my dad had text me that H said he was going to a friends so he wasn't here when I got home. I was hoping he was staying out but he came in shortly after me. The boys ended up staying over at their friends. They have such a good time there, I brought them stuff to make ice cream sundaes so they were fishing at their lake and swimming. They were having a blast. The parents are awesome too, they know a bit about what's going on and check on me every day and offer to take the boys constantly. My dad said the one thing I should be super thankful for is the huge support system I have. Which is very true and I am very appreciative. Everyone rallies behind the boys and I.
And Go figure tonight he comes in to say goodnight to me
T, this post is really awesome. I can see your progress here and can see you moving in the right direction. I hope it works out as you want it to tomorrow.
I was up early with the baby this morning and he was gone. Not surprising however no communication to me of child care ... up until today if he were to work a weekend he would ask or let me know to make sure I had the kids covered.
This just reaffirms my decision of him not going ... just not sure how I'll word it when I have to tell him he's not going. Maybe the boys decided to invite a friend last minute since you've been gone all day. Or I thought it's not in my best interest for you to come so the boys invited a friend.
On a happy note I put the baby down at midnight (still working on getting him down earlier) but he slept straight through til 745am!!! Small victories!
T, why not just be straightforward instead of searching for a passive way to make him not go? There's no need to try to engineer an "oops". There is an option where you just tell him he's not coming.
If he seems like he's making arrangements to accompany you, just calmly say "H, I think it's best if you don't go with us."
He might get emotional, and that's fine. If he does, you can briefly explain "H, you chose to leave the marriage. That's your choice. But now you seem to want to dictate what life looks like after you made your choice, but I get choices now, too. And I just don't share your vision that there will still be family events that include you after you've left. That doesn't feel right to me, and so I'd like some healthy boundaries in place instead. You are always free to have your own events that include the boys, though!"
If he tries to pull you into a R talk, hold up your hand and say "H, I'm not interested. I've heard it all before, many maaaany times. I'm not arguing about your choice. I am simply requesting that you to respect my choice, too."
Be calm and collected. Do not get emotional, but you don't need to be angry/mean.
You are not being mean to H. You don't have to worry about how he feels about missing out. He's an adult, and if he wanted to have family events, then he shouldn't have left the M. It's really as simple as that. He doesn't get to leave and have you shield him from feeling any loss.
He may demand his ticket and travel separately. If that's the case, I wouldn't turn him down. I'd just give him his ticket, due to the circumstances.
(In this reply, I gave you the instruction manual version of advocating for yourself because I know you still crave details. You can do what you want, but I wanted to give you a plan based on how he might react because I know you still doubt yourself and crave specifics )
I'm not sure how to answer about the baby, because I don't know if you were planning on taking him.
If you don't want him to go, I would reply "Yes, we are planning on going. I think it's best that you don't accompany us. If you still want your ticket, come pick it up by ____ o'clock. Let me know what you want to do because if you don't end up using your ticket I can probably find someone to take it."
That's what I'd do. This is a tough one because the plans were made so long ago and he's vague-texting where he's not being clear if he's just asking or if he expects to go.
Of course, this means that he might drive separately and be there, but you'll still be fine if he makes that choice. And you still get to lay down a boundary that it sounds like you want to lay down.
Ya I was not planning on taking the baby but my mom fell through watching him. She has a friend unexpectedly in the hospital and is driving to go see him.
So in this moment I have to take the baby which I would prefer not but I'll make do if he has to come.
I sent this text... Haven't gotten a reply.
Yes, we are going. It's probably best you don't accompany us. If you still want your ticket I will email it to you. If you decide not to go let me know and I will try to sell it. Also, if you decide not to go I would like to leave the baby with you if possible so he doesn't have to be out in those crowds.
I'm like you and have a great support network, not my Dad he's useless but friends are totally amazing.
If you don't want H to go, you certainly don't need him to, then I agree with the others, offer him his ticket and let him go under his own steam or not as the case maybe. You don't want to play his happy family game and why should you he has made his choice and it's not to be part of a happy family.
Your advice to me has been amazing and I hope you have a fabulous time.
SJ x
Me 46 H 39 M 11 T 14 S 10 DO 8 ILYBNILWY 11.06.17 Separate rooms 11.06.17 ILW OW A ongoing 12.06.17 Kicked H out 23.6.17 H came home 20.8.17
You didn't get sucked in, you ignored his attempts at causing an argument (ignoring the "allowed"), and you laid down a boundary (you can go to the event since it's a free country, but you can't go with us.)
Good for you. Look down, because I believe you've dropped the rope! This is what it looks like: not trying to control him but having healthy boundaries that reflect the reality of the situation.
You may still pick the rope back up as you work your way through the emotional minefield you've got to deal with, but this is what dropping it looks like.
If there's any more back and forth about his ticket, ignore it. It's not important to sell it or give it to someone else. Asking him to let you know could come off as if you want to know if he's going or not.
A woman who has dropped the rope isn't impacted by him going or not going... if the ticket doesn't get used, oh well.
Thanks Cadence, I am actually kind of proud of myself because I thought about saying let me know if you aren't going but then I thought to myself exactly what you said and that is me trying to know his plans, also me asking him to watch the baby would be seen as me trying to control his free night so I dropped all of that and tried to live by Sandi's words of as few words as possible in the text.
After I posted that I ended up replying something different than what I typed, I decided not to even say let me know if you aren't going so I can give the ticket because like you said it's not that important plus I'll have the baby and a baby bag so an extra seat might be nice.
It went like this
H: Am I still allowed to go or no? M: I will email the ticket or leave it at will call. H: Cool, what time are you guys leaving? Hoping to be done at work by 2 M. Not sure. I can't email the ticket so I'll just leave it at will call. H: Okay thanks
Done, no more replies needed from me and I just have to try and be out of the house before he gets home to avoid driving together. The game doesn't start til 8 and I hate that I have to rush out to get away but it is what it is. It will get easier with time.
My poor mom makes me laugh, she says I know you're friends online won't agree with what I say but I think you should tell him why does he expect to go after treating you so terribly all week. She goes but you know better don't listen to me T. I'm not good at this stuff lol. I love how she now refers to you guys as like she is going to get in trouble. We both laughed about it. I said don't worry mom I'm always getting in trouble too! haha
Done, no more replies needed from me and I just have to try and be out of the house before he gets home to avoid driving together. The game doesn't start til 8 and I hate that I have to rush out to get away but it is what it is. It will get easier with time.
Alternatively, you could just verbally reinforce what you've already texted (and tell your parents not to go against your boundary and allow him to go with you). "That's not a good idea, H, and I've already told you that."
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My poor mom makes me laugh, she says I know you're friends online won't agree with what I say but I think you should tell him why does he expect to go after treating you so terribly all week. She goes but you know better don't listen to me T. I'm not good at this stuff lol. I love how she now refers to you guys as like she is going to get in trouble. We both laughed about it. I said don't worry mom I'm always getting in trouble too! haha
Ha, cute. But I think you're doing exactly what your Mom wants you to get across to H, but you're doing it with emotional maturity and you're using your actions instead of your words. A strong confident woman doesn't need words when she can set boundaries.
Great job, and I know you're happy to not have this all looming over you anymore. You handled it like a boss. Hope you had fun!
BTW, in my opinion what's best for YOU is what's best for the boys. You are the backbone of their childhood and the source of their emotional security and strength. Their interests and your interests can not be opposed as long as you are not acting out of vengeance or anger.
Keep moving forward!!!
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
Yes Maybell, I have to take care of me too so I am trying to take what's best for me into consideration too.
We just got home, had a great time! I ended up taking the baby with and the drive there (an hour and a half away) had me questioning my decision because the last 20 minutes he was not happy but he did great. We ended up being seated in the same section (out of 35000 people) with a big group of friends (a bunch of other couples H and I hang out with). So that was fun seeing all of them... was slightly wishing I was there childless like they were pounding some beers haha
H text me to thank me for the ticket and that he was about 10 minutes away, I didn't reply. He got there and I didn't realize the only empty seat was next to me so when he went to sit down I asked S6 to switch seats with me. We didn't talk or exchange words but I was happy and talkative with my dad,the boys and our friends.
There was a semi awkward moment when one of the dad's came up to H and was like so how is everything? everything going great at home with the new baby (he doesn't know anything) and H stumbled on his words because I think he thought he was caught and that I ratted him out. Once he realized the guy didn't know he was fine but I was laughing to myself at how he was like uhh what? huhh ummm
H went his separate way and asked the boys to come with, they declined. Both the boys passed out on the way home. My dad and I talked a bit, we both love to talk, and he said H is so delusional. He said how he tries to get in on our conversation and make talk about the stadium,etc. H and I usually take the boys to many games at that stadium throughout the season for the last 3 years, so we have a lot of fun memories there.
But ya, I think I did well today. I was a person that really in this moment doesn't care what he was doing. He was texting next to me pictures to people and I didn't even care to look over to see who it was... I just almost feel sorry for him... Not quite there yet but I look at this life we have and how lucky we are for all the things we have and our boys and our friends and think wow it's really that bad that it's worth giving up.
Hoping I can keep this up, but who knows. One day at a time.
Thank you for everyone's help with handling this situation
Nice, T. You did it. You put up appropriate boundaries without anger.
Note how H was trying to be nice to you by thanking you for the ticket. You created distance and, as a result, he took a step closer. There might just be something to that pursuit/distance concept, huh?
This is the dynamic we've been trying to describe to you. However, don't expect it as a short term solution and don't expect it to be consistent. We've got an eye on the long term, and so should you. Do not be surprised that every time H takes a step toward you he self-corrects, afterward. Don't worry about it. Expect it, and keep an eye on the long term.
Honestly, I cannot recommend the book mentioned in the pursuit/distance thread to you enough. There's about a 10 page description of the dynamic that would be very helpful for you to read.
You are dropping the rope, and while you don't care about his choices, you can still love him and observe him from a distance while you emotionally protect yourself.
To top it all off, H experienced many natural consequences of his choices last night. He had to drive himself, he didn't get to sit next to you as if everything were fine, he faced awkward situations with others where he had to understand how his choices might look to other people (if only for a moment), and his sons didn't want to ride home with him. He's getting a taste of the reality of his choices.
I don't know that he came closer at all even just for the thank you. Like I said I didn't rely to the text. He didn't say goodnight to me in front of the kids last night which is fine and after reading what Sandi said I decided not to. Just funny how he can say it to me when we're here alone and the boys aren't here -- it's just that it's on his terms. Everything he does is when it benefits him.
He also the past two days has been gone when we wake up. As I think I may have mentioned yesterday. Up until this weekend every weekend he had asked/or told me he had to work or had plans and made sure I didn't have any to watch the boys while he was gone. Now he just leaves early in the morning comes back whenever he feels like it without the courtesy of asking about the kids. So he's just removing himself further and further.
T it does get easier. The further you get from being beaten down every day the stronger your self esteem gets. The stronger your self esteem gets, the less you want to put up with someone treating you badly and the more you detach and stand up for yourself. You are doing great and everyone here is so proud of you!!
T- here's another pattern for you. We praise you for your success, and instead of feeling pride, you dismiss it by talking about proof that what you did didn't make any difference at all via H's actions.
This is extremely unlikely to resolve in the short term. Please stop expecting success to mean that it will resolve in the short term. That leads to expectations and disappointment on your part (and also an inability to be proud of yourself for what you did accomplish.)
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I don't know that he came closer at all even just for the thank you.
Again, I urge you to get that book and read it. You don't seem to grasp what pursuit and distance look like.
H has been angry and silent toward you, and after you put up boundaries that did not let him cake-eat, he stepped toward you by sending you a polite text that he did not have to send.
Instead, you dismiss that and then dissect his behavior and what it all "means." T, I just said that after coming closer, he will self-correct. That's what he did. This does not erase your progress as long as you remain consistent in your rope-dropping and distancing actions.
Please stop yourself from dissecting and comparing, because these represent your unproductive anxious spiral. We've been over it a thousand times - allowing yourself to sit in dissection/prediction mode is very unhealthy and unproductive for your goals. It doesn't protect you; it harms you. It keeps you stuck, anxious, and unable to advocate for yourself without anger.
Instead, cut yourself a break and think about only you. Think about how you can apply what you succeeded at last night to this entire dynamic: calm boundary setting without anger. Think about how nice that will feel that you'll be standing up for what you deserve. We know you want H back, but he's not available to you right now. So what's the best Option B that you can dream up? You're going to build an Option B life, while remaining open to the possibility of Option A.
P.S. Get that book, read it, and stop your dissecting/soothsaying right now, or I might have to hunt you down and give you a disapproving look through your kitchen window
I'm not one who is into posting lyrics that much, however, I hope the ones below will inspire you as you take back your power.
I am woman, hear me roar In numbers too big to ignore And I know too much to go back an' pretend 'Cause I've heard it all before And I've been down there on the floor No one's ever gonna keep me down again [Chorus:] Oh yes I am wise But it's wisdom born of pain Yes, I've paid the price But look how much I gained If I have to, I can do anything I am strong (strong) I am invincible (invincible) I am woman You can bend but never break me 'Cause it only serves to make me More determined to achieve my final goal And I come back even stronger Not a novice any longer 'Cause you've deepened the conviction in my soul [Chorus] I am woman watch me grow See me standing toe to toe As I spread my lovin' arms across the land But I'm still an embryo With a long long way to go Until I make my brother understand Oh yes I am wise But it's wisdom born of pain Yes, I've paid the price But look how much I gained If I have to I can face anything I am strong (strong) I am invincible (invincible) I am woman Oh, I am woman I am invincible I am strong I am woman I am invincible I am strong I am woman
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you all for your words. Thank you Sandi for the lyrics whenever I am having a down day I will come back and re read them like I do a lot of your posts.
Cadence, I know you have been through that with me a 100000 times. I recognize that, I guess I am trying to explain my feelings becasue you guys only know what I tell you of H.
He has pulled himself further and further away. I think I mentioned yesterday and today he was gone both mornings no word of when he would be back, if the kids were taken care of, if I had plans, etc. He just comes and goes as he wants.
Am I supposed to say you're welcome to his texts if he says thank you. I have adopted the policy of not responding unless it necessitates a response ie kids, bills, direct important questions. Everything else goes unanswered.
I'm feeling a little frustrated today, he was again gone all day(fine by me), but continues to talk to that nasty girl his mom got involved. They have sent hundreds of messages in the last week and talked on the phone for an hour and a half, I find that every time after he talks to her he is even more cold to me. He came in the house while I was studying and listened to the baby cry for an hour and didn't offer to take him. He's been home for 4 hours and hasn't yet acknowledged the baby to even say hello to him.
I walked out earlier to find he had left again, I didn't even know he wasn't here. I know I have to let go of feeling frustrated but when do I get to come and go as I please? Maybe I would like to be irresponsible!! lol ... I have a HUGE exam and even bigger webcam encounter tomorrow morning and I don't get to just up and leave to study for that. My continuation in the program is determined by tomorrow's encounter (and the mood of my professor)
Whatever, I AM letting it go. This is his choices and I just wish he wasn't here but unfortunately that's not my reality right now so it's just a waste of thinking about it. I wish his inability to help wasn't here to be rubbed in my face. He can spend hours on the phone with another woman talking about our relationship and what the future holds but cannot talk to me about it. He hasn't seen this woman in 14 years. Hasn't talked to her since last BD when did this same [censored], telling her it was over, he wasn't coming back blah blah blah. But I have to remember like my C said, he is just building up this army of people to support him in his decision and if they disagreed with him he wouldn't be talking to them.
Okay vent over. I am so stressed. I have been on this computer studying for almost 12 hours now, I think I am going cross eyed. I recognize that. I just want tomorrow to be over with and know that I will continue on in school and not have to sit out a year.
Cadence - that book, is it the 1996 or 2002 edition? Also I re read some of the thread again today (for probably the 20th time) and I believe it was Cadet that mentioned if you read the thread there wasn't much else in the book that was beneficial beyond what was discussed in the thread if I remember correctly. Correct me if I am wrong though as I haven't read the book.
I said to my mom yesterday, I wish I was seeing some positive response from H as to what I'm doing, some type of inclination that he's having second thoughts. She said hes removing himself further and further so he isn't thinking twice about his decision... and why would I want him back after him doing this to me twice. I just don't know? What does that say about me? I don't even know anymore. I just know I want that opportunity.
I feel like waaah waaaah waaaah haha
Everything will work out as it should, I feel better just writing this out. But I do apologize those of you who have to cringe through reading this.
I'm currently listening to him out in the living room talking to my dad, eating pizza, watching the race, like our normal Sunday evenings just minus us acknowledging each others existence.
So I guess this is where I'm at today in an effort to improve myself Why do I still hold him to the standard of what he was to me as a husband and a partner? How do I stop that and accept him for who he is right now? Which is not my 'hero'
How do I work toward not letting him frustrate me when I see he is not pulling his weight as a parent?
Why do I view everything negatively in this situation?
What does it look like for me to accept his decision and move forward with my life?
How do I let go of all the anger and resentment I have toward him and how do I work toward not showing that (I don't feel I have lately)
Why do I compare myself to these other women he talks to?
Why do I let it bother me so much that he is discussing our M with other women that A. do not know me, B. really don't know H since high school, C. Don't know our family or our life
I think I know all of these answers, drop the rope.
+1 with OwnIt. I'm incredibly impressed that you caught yourself, T.
First off, I would like you to sit, close your eyes, take some deep breaths and think of all that you've accomplished and the enormous pressures you've been under. DBing/dealing with a wayward or MLCer is not for the faint of heart. But you've done it once and you're doing it again, and you've got a baby and a graduate program this time.
You are more powerful that you will ever know. You can do anything and you are going to kick some b&tt on that test and webcam encounter today.
Some professors are hesitant to let others into their club. It's a big problem all over academia. Lucky, my program this time around is supportive, but in my last degree at a different university there was faculty infighting and other faculty attacking students brought in by faculty they didn't like.
It's unfortunate, but I've also seen accomplished women without families who hold it against women with kids who are trying to attain entrance to their career club.
What I've learned: Professors are people too. Figure out what makes them tick. This professor sounds like she is hard on students and wants to feel good about passing them.
So, for you: shoulders back, confidence, and a small bit of deference. Nothing she can perceive as weak, particularly if it's a woman. If you can, compliment her by letting them know you took their advice to heart and have been working hard (they want to know your improvement was as a result of their feedback.)
Play the game, T. I'm not even going to wish you luck because you've so got this!
Okay, now that topic is over, back to the above. T, you see you spiral down. After your exam is done (and you've done amazing, as we all know you will) sit and think about your patterns. What brings you to the state above? We know you're just venting, and are trying hard not to give off signals in real life, but the venting and the fact that you're in that state isn't good for you.
It seems like you panic. We've eliminated the "D" word from your repertoire (thank goodness), but there is still the snooping and dissecting his behavior. You dissect his behavior still trying to make predictions about him and what it all means. And I think that all you're accomplishing is torturing yourself.
Do you do this when you're worried about other areas of your life? How are you feeling before it happens?
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I wish I was seeing some positive response from H as to what I'm doing, some type of inclination that he's having second thoughts. She said hes removing himself further and further so he isn't thinking twice about his decision... and why would I want him back after him doing this to me twice. I just don't know? What does that say about me? I don't even know anymore. I just know I want that opportunity.
Your mom is undoubtedly a lovely person, but from what I see in her advice, she stays very much on the surface level and advises you based on that.
I don't say that to give you false hope, but I think we've all accepted that he's 100% certain he's doing the right thing at this point in time. He was sure the last time, too, so certainty isn't a reliable predictor of what will happen. The thing about feelings like being sure and being certain is that they change. They change based on our moods (as you can see with yourself), the pressures in our life, and when there is new information.
Also, based on the fact that he's done this once before, your H doesn't seem to know himself very well. He second-guesses himself and rather than making the best of things, he wants to upturn his whole life, again. And he recruits supporters to help him make the transition (Wow - I didn't know he also talked to the same woman last time around!) We don't know where he's going to end up, but it's possible he does the exact same thing he did last time. And, if so, you can take the information available to you at that time and make a choice. The signs he's showing now don't predict anything.
I don't disagree with your mom. It's more of an "Ok, and?" sort of feeling. She doesn't delve in very far, and that's okay. She tells you what she sees because she loves you and wants to help you. She thinks you'll feel better if you let go. And I agree with her on that part, but I don't think there's any reason to back off of leaving the door cracked behind you if/when his feelings changed.
DBing and GAL mean you accept what the other person wants/doesn't want, because we have no control over them, and we let go. We go on to build the best, fullest life without them, and we learn we can survive - or even thrive! - without them.
Re: the book. I'll read the thread again, but my feeling was that I got a great deal more out of the book in terms of what constitutes pursuit and distance and the pattern that develops. The thread, as I recall, was focused on characteristics of pursuers and distancers.
But I'll read the thread again and let you know if I still think it's worth buying the book. Let me get back to you on that
Well final is over, passed with an A! Happy about that but my webcam encounter was postponed. I sat in front of the computer for 20 minutes waiting for my professor to get an email saying there was a family emergency and she had to reschedule. Can't say I wasn't elated but now my schedule is tight for child care the rest of the week so I hope she will be understanding about that. Hope everything is okay with her family!
Yes, I'm not sure what her deal is but I am going to go into it confident and do my best and there's not much more I can ask of myself and what will be will be, but I can't say I won't be disappointed if I do not do well. My main concern/problem with the program is the inconsistency in grading/expectations. A lot of other friends I have in the program have professors that barely even asked questions during their encounter whereas my teacher expects it to list 2-2.5 hours!! I guess I will be better prepared for practice IRL.
So as far as me spiraling, I don't feel that I do this other than my R with H. I do get anxious like about my tests and things but it doesn't make me spiral down these negative roads of XYZ. I think with H I fear how unpredictable he is. I'm not sure if I mentioned this but my C brought it up to H. About his actions triggering me and me having a form of PTSD regarding what happened in the past. He said that because H lied to me so much during last BD I repeatedly ask the same questions thinking that maybe on the 10th time he will finally tell me the truth because of that being the case last BD. He also said I need a lot of reassurance through H's actions because his words to me are possible of being lies like last time. He also had asked H in MC why he expects me to just not ask any questions or want no communication if I have a problem or he's making me uncomfortable. H said he doesn't want to talk about anything he just wants to be left alone and things will get better eventually.
Okay I think I'm rambling off topic now.
My frustration (and torturing myself) is that this woman wouldn't be involved if MIL hadn't involved her. She was involved last BD doing the same crap. H is weak and easily influenced, and while a big boy and capable of making his own decisions, everyone that knows H knows he's fueled by others influence. This changes nothing *I know* because I cannot control this and there is *nothing* I can do to change that. He will talk to whomever he wants to and do whatever he chooses. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to have some choice words with her. She's on marriage number 3, 4 kids all different fathers... great role model for advocating for our family
I get that feelings change. I know that first hand within myself how much my feelings have changed over the last 4.5 months. When I'm sad, I want things to work out, when I'm angry I want to scream at him and kick him out and then when I'm just blah - I feel like eh whatever happens. And all of those feelings can happen in one day!
H is an irrational person, my whole family says this. He makes rash decision on a whim or emotion. His dad told my father when H and I first met 'don't count on him, he never finishes everything.' My dad said what a terrible way for a father to think, but now 13 years later my dad says well I guess his dad was right. H has all of these projects and is always searching for *something* to make him happy. For example, last year he had to have this very expensive big diesel truck, that was going to make him happy and that's what he needed. Then he came home a few months later with another boat (we already have one big one for offshore) but this one was better because it was smaller and he could easily take it out with the boys it was something for our whole family and it was going to be great. Then he bought a project truck because he wanted a project for him to work on with the kids. Well needless to say he's just started working on that truck now because he needs the $$ and can turn a profit. Well then in March he bought the motorcycle. This one was because he needed a hobby, I said what about the boat and the truck, he said no I need a hobby that's for me, *alone*. I need to make myself happy before I can make anyone else happy. This is what makes me happy, riding the motorcycle. Now this came as a shock as he has not mentioned a motorcycle since 2008 since we sold our last one we used to ride with friends because of our oldest being born. However, boss and boss daughter I have now found out have motorcycles. Anyway, that's his cycle. Except like I told him----I am not a project you just give up on and move on.
MIL told me a couple months ago that what has happened between us is what she *heard* happened between H and his GF before me. H had told me he had moved out of his GF and moved in with his parents because he caught his GF cheating on him. MIL said she heard from XGF parents that H was very much in fact living there when he started talking to me and that he left XGF for me, I was 18 at the time and really didn't know any different. We lived far away from each other and had met through a mutual friend when I was vacationing up north. So I didn't live up there to know if he was living with her when we first started talking. But if that's the case it's the same thing as last BD, talkign to another female while still in R then leaving when he got the courage for the new R. Only difference is he came back to me when his new R failed. So this history, if true, makes me realize that A he probably won't come back unless his new R fails and B this may very well be a life long cycle (which my dad says it will be) and I will be here every couple years going through the same crap.
So where does that leave me? All this information still leads me along the same course of action to continue to drop the rope. I don't know what my goal is anymore because reflecting on what I have typed above makes me wonder why I even want this man in my life? I have gotten to the point of reminding myself he walked out when the baby was a month old. That is not someone with the type of character I am willing to accept as a partner in my life. I think where I'm at is I want the opportunity to decide what *I* want. Meaning I don't want to be forced into D. Not sure how much truth there is to that but I think I would like the opportunity.
Okay and I don't want this to come off as if I'm worried about saving the M... but is what I'm doing what I am supposed to be? I do not talk to H AT ALL, no hello, goodbye, basically I walk by him and do not even make eye contact. Now I am nice in the house with the boys, my dad, if we are around friends, so I am my normal self, but just act like he doesn't exist. He's started putting his laundry back in the laundry basket and I have continued doing it as normal because I think it would be more trouble to go out of my way to sort it out in an effort to not do it. I no longer make him a plate for dinner. I do not ask his plans, what he's doing where he's been etc. I also do not ask for any help with the boys. Last night i wanted to take a shower but the baby was up, so I brought the swing into the bathroom lol... then S6 knocked on the bathroom door and wanted to come in and sit and hang out while I showered- I heard H yell at him to leave me alone that sometimes 'mommy needs privacy and a break from the boys' haha privacy-I'm showering with my 2 month old in a swing in the bathroom... Anyway, I'm just making sure that what I'm doing is what I should be because I don't want to further fuel his opinion of me that he's made the right decision.
On another note, I just bought top of the line Samsung washer and dryer about 18 months ago and I woke up to the dryer being broken this morning! They were so expensive and #1 on the consumer reports. I've already had problems with the washer and now the dryer is completely on the fritz. Won't even turn on. Ugh!! I need someone or something to cut me a break. I don't want to ask H to look at it but I really don't want to pay someone to come out. I haven't spoke with him to initiate any contact in days and would like to keep it that way. Maybe if I just hit it a few times it will work lol
I think it's easy to swing to extremes in these circumstances (which is why, despite the hardships it would cause, I *really* wish H would just move out already so you guys aren't in each other's faces everyday). Anyway remember how we encouraged you to stop worrying about what you "should" be doing? If not, here's your reminder.
I wouldn't, like, pick up the phone and call H to ask him to look at the dryer. But if he is in the house anyway, you can absolutely ask him to take a look at it! The key is in asking without expectations.
Don't make things harder on yourself than they already are!
CONGRATULATIONS on your final grade!!!!!!!
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
You're gonna do great on the webcam encounter, T. If you're getting As on exams with everything going on, you're seriously superwoman. Be confident and don't forget to suck up if you have the opportunity ("thanks so much for your feedback. I really focused on what you said and I hope I showed improvements.")
A friend of mine is having an argument with her H and he's not talking to her and she's like "but then I think how you dealt with this for weeks and I think it's not so bad." I corrected her that it was months I was dealing with it.
I second Train's suggestion. If H is around, nonchalantly ask if he'd take a look at the dryer. He may refuse, but you'll be no worse off.
There's no instruction manual, T. The basis to guide how you conduct yourself is that you're doing it for you. If you don't feel like talking to him, don't. If you feel like saying a polite "hi", say it. You don't have to ignore him and his texts, but you also don't have to answer them (if they're not necessary about the kids.)
You've been so focused on watching his every move for months that this should feel like a relief to you - you just get to do what you feel like and you don't have to care what he thinks. (Though I'd still remain somewhat detached and avoid arguments or R discussions like the plague.)
H went out to drop parts of at a friends house. Said he would be back at 1015 to put the boys to bed because I had to do my encounter.
He's still gone. He is at a house... pretty sure it's one of the mom's that tried to date him last time he left me. She's late 40s.
It's now 1130pm, I have to be up at 6am, I do not want him coming here. I called him once at 1115pm, first time I've called in ages). He didn't answer. I decided not to send a text but am wondering if I should, saying not to come here tonight.
I tried to bite my tongue and handled it as best as I could, I counted to 10 in my head while he was lying. I said what are you doing, he said I'm in X city, he said at the bowling alley, thinking about joining the league up here.
I said H, I am not stupid, you were not there and do not lie to me. This is not a hotel, there are 3 children here and it's not come and go as you please, since you seek that lifestyle you shouldn't be coming here to stay anymore. He said I know it's not a hotel, hold on I'm going to send you a picture of the bowling alley, I said H I don't need or want a picture, you think that proves anything? I said you can take a picture it doesn't mean that's where you are. He said well I'll send you a pin of my location, I said again, don't bother, it means nothing to me. Again, this isn't a hotel. He said this is ridiculous you never believe anything I say, I went and bought a new dryer, I'm running around getting stuff taken care of for the truck and you think I'm up to no good now. I said I am not a stupid person and am not going to listen to things that aren't true... I need to get the kids to bed. Goodbye and hung up.
I didn't yell or get angry, just spoke matter of fact.
When he gets here I am contemplating telling him that I forgot to mention do not dare come to this home after spending time with other women.
No deadbolt unfortunately, but I did turn off all the lights inside and outside. I also may have used his towel he uses to shower to clean up around the toilet (2 young boys can be quite messy)
Controlling T. Either let him in or don't, but he isn't going to listen to or respect your rules. You are slipping back into the same dynamic. L.E.T. I.T. G.O.
Just have the locks changed tomorrow. If he changes them back, he changes them back.
Well final is over, passed with an A! Happy about that but my webcam
T3, CONGRATS!! What a feat! So enjoy the success you had ^^^ and don't follow up with "But my..."
you are undermining yourself at almost every corner. Sweetie be gentle with yourself b/c at some point if you cannot, it will spill over into other areas. Model the love you want your sons to feel for themselves, with yourself.
- -
So as far as me spiraling, I don't feel that I do this other than my R with H. I do get anxious like about my tests and things but it doesn't make me spiral down these negative roads of XYZ. I think with H I fear how unpredictable he is. your h is consistently inconsistent. You've made him the priority of your family while the family is merely an option for him.
I'm not sure if I mentioned this but my C brought it up to H. About his actions triggering me and me having a form of PTSD regarding what happened in the past. He said that because H lied to me so much during last BD I repeatedly ask the same questions thinking that maybe on the 10th time he will finally tell me the truth because of that being the case last BD. okay, fair enough^^^^. What can YOU do with ^^^this? how is it serving you now?
He also said I need a lot of reassurance through H's actions because his words to me are possible of being lies like last time. He also had asked H in MC why he expects me to just not ask any questions or want no communication if I have a problem or he's making me uncomfortable. H said he doesn't want to talk about anything he just wants to be left alone and things will get better eventually.
cake eat, much? I mean, this^^ is you NOT getting your needs met - and him not wanting to do the work needed to repair a betrayed relationship. Yep, that's what that is.
this ^^ is not new info is it? AND So, now what?
My frustration (and torturing myself) is that this woman wouldn't be involved if MIL hadn't involved her. She was involved last BD doing the same crap. OMG T3!~!!! ((( ))) what difference does this make now? How on earth can this possible tangent, or thread of "intrigue"??? or nonsense help or steer you? You are inflicting yet more pain on yourself and there's no way you can be present for your sons AND your work AND be doing this to yourself. No way.
Sweet T3, I'm getting a little cray cray just reading this. Get a STOP SIGN and put it in your head or do some meditation or hire a trainer or a new bff who keeps redirecting your thoughts away from useless torture Endless wondering is endless suffering. - Caroline Myss
and yes, I've posted that before but then, you have asked these questions before so I guess I"m throwing this back at you.
H is weak and easily influenced, and while a big boy and capable of making his own decisions, everyone that knows H knows he's fueled by others influence. This changes nothing *I know* because I cannot control this and there is *nothing* I can do to change that. He will talk to whomever he wants to and do whatever he chooses. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to have some choice words with her. She's on marriage number 3, 4 kids all different fathers... great role model for advocating for our family this^^^ will probably not change. Now you know.
-
H is an irrational person, my whole family says this. He makes rash decision on a whim or emotion. His dad told my father when H and I first met 'don't count on him, he never finishes everything.' My dad said what a terrible way for a father to think, but now 13 years later my dad says well I guess his dad was right. H has all of these projects and is always searching for *something* to make him happy. For example, last year he had to have this very expensive big diesel truck, that was going to make him happy and that's what he needed.
Then he came home a few months later with another boat (we already have one big one for offshore) but this one was better because it was smaller and he could easily take it out with the boys it was something for our whole family and it was going to be great.
Then he bought a project truck because he wanted a project for him to work on with the kids. Well needless to say he's just started working on that truck now because he needs the $$ and can turn a profit. Well then in March he bought the motorcycle. This one was because he needed a hobby, I said what about the boat and the truck, he said no I need a hobby that's for me, *alone*. I need to make myself happy before I can make anyone else happy. This is what makes me happy, riding the motorcycle. Now this came as a shock as he has not mentioned a motorcycle since 2008 since we sold our last one we used to ride with friends because of our oldest being born. However, boss and boss daughter I have now found out have motorcycles. Anyway, that's his cycle. Except like I told him----I am not a project you just give up on and move on.
MIL told me a couple months ago that what has happened between us is what she *heard* happened between H and his GF before me. H had told me he had moved out of his GF and moved in with his parents because he caught his GF cheating on him. MIL said she heard from XGF parents that H was very much in fact living there when he started talking to me and that he left XGF for me, I was 18 at the time and really didn't know any different. We lived far away from each other and had met through a mutual friend when I was vacationing up north. So I didn't live up there to know if he was living with her when we first started talking. But if that's the case it's the same thing as last BD, talkign to another female while still in R then leaving when he got the courage for the new R. Only difference is he came back to me when his new R failed. So this history, if true, makes me realize that A he probably won't come back unless his new R fails and B this may very well be a life long cycle (which my dad says it will be) and I will be here every couple years going through the same crap. the history you know of, is true. Never mind his XGF or what may have happened, what you DO know is that he has a pattern and now you can see it.
So where does that leave me? All this information still leads me along the same course of action to continue to drop the rope. I don't know what my goal is anymore because reflecting on what I have typed above makes me wonder why I even want this man in my life? ^^^this is not a linear process. Even though I say that often, I still find myself learning what it means.
I have gotten to the point of reminding myself he walked out when the baby was a month old. That is not someone with the type of character I am willing to accept as a partner in my life.
Okay and I don't want this to come off as if I'm worried about saving the M... but is what I'm doing what I am supposed to be?-----. Anyway, I'm just making sure that what I'm doing is what I should be because I don't want to further fuel his opinion of me that he's made the right decision. what comes to my mind is, "who cares what he thinks?" But I know you want to read his mind. Which I cannot. I can only assume you'd worsen things if you scream at him, but that's about all I can offer at this point. I think his lurking around and being tolerated in the home is pretty damn lucky for him.
On another note, I just bought top of the line Samsung washer and dryer about 18 months ago and I woke up to the dryer being broken this morning! - I don't want to ask H to look at it but I really don't want to pay someone to come out. I haven't spoke with him to initiate any contact in days and would like to keep it that way. Maybe if I just hit it a few times it will work lol
Since he's in the house, he probably broke the washer dryer!!
just kidding but seems to me this is a legit "issue" he can help with or at least know about. Seems like a safe topic. Relatively!!
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
If you want to go off on him, T, let it be on YOUR schedule. Not as a reaction to anything he's doing or not doing. When you're on the defensive like this, you hand him power. But it seems you don't have the guts to do it offensively. And you have said it's because you're too scared he is going to pull $??? But you're not afraid he will pull $$$ when you lose your temper being reactive like this tonight?
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
I tried to bite my tongue and handled it as best as I could, I counted to 10 in my head while he was lying. I said what are you doing, he said I'm in X city, he said at the bowling alley, thinking about joining the league up here.
I said H, I am not stupid, you were not there and do not lie to me. This is not a hotel, there are 3 children here and it's not come and go as you please, since you seek that lifestyle you shouldn't be coming here to stay anymore. He said I know it's not a hotel, hold on I'm going to send you a picture of the bowling alley, I said H I don't need or want a picture, you think that proves anything? I said you can take a picture it doesn't mean that's where you are. He said well I'll send you a pin of my location, I said again, don't bother, it means nothing to me. Again, this isn't a hotel. He said this is ridiculous you never believe anything I say, I went and bought a new dryer, I'm running around getting stuff taken care of for the truck and you think I'm up to no good now. I said I am not a stupid person and am not going to listen to things that aren't true... I need to get the kids to bed. Goodbye and hung up.
I didn't yell or get angry, just spoke matter of fact.
When he gets here I am contemplating telling him that I forgot to mention do not dare come to this home after spending time with other women.
T3,
I literally checked the date of this post b/c I swear I have seen these comments before.
Same old.
"I'm not stupid" - why bother saying that? Who cares if he lies now? Either confront with truth or don't care,
but this is like a script (sadly, it's one you co-wrote). With fake boundaries.
ugh
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
all that matters is that he said he'd be home to help with the boys and he was not.
Nothing else he says matters. Literally.
He's not pretending to be committed to you and he's not saying or acting as if he's married to you. God only knows why he bothers to lie (and he lies so poorly/weirdly.)
Who cares about a bowling alley & joining a league, when you're supposed to help put your sons to sleep? OMG I might have laughed. Seriously.
"H, stop. Don't need to know, don't care. All I know is you're not here to help with the kids as you promised. So of course I feel set up. Now I know you're not coming at all tonight. You know I have to get up early for X so That was a lousy thing to do. Gotta go. Bye."
The End
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I don't care if he lies but do it somewhere else....
I thought I was doing the right thing by telling him this wasn't a hotel and that he needed to make his own arrangements outside of the home because staying here isn't working.
Damn I thought I was doing right .... guess I failed at that one.
I know what I wanted to add when he got here wasn't right and that was anger so I didn't say it.
I just remember last time when he lied to me I cut him off in the middle of the lie and said I won't tolerate being lied to and ended the conversation so that's kind of what I was going for with this conversation and made it about you no life are welcome here.
I guess the finance part was me being on the offense he hadn't done anything wrong in the moment ... whereas right now he knows he s lying and he knows he's wrong deep down inside and him being kicked out of here in this moment is a result of his acute/immediate choice and I figured he would be less likely to pull finances. Maybe that makes no sense but that was my thought process. That he knows he deserves to not stay here?
Bear with me ladies. I am on like zero sleep. But hey on a positive note I PASSED my encounter and my professor was an ANGEL!! she was super appreciative that I was willing to do it so late at night 1015-11pm! We did it faster than it was supposed to be which was nice n
Ya 25 what you're saying was the gist I was going with. Like when he offered pics It doesn't prove anything and I don't care enough to see a picture. He said I'm turning around now to go show you. I said again H I don't care. It means nothing to me. All I care about is getting the boys to bed and having a long day tomorrow.
So what do I do tomorrow? tell him not to come here?
You are giving him too much credit. His thought processes are not that complex. You've told him a bunch of times not to come back. Either demand the house keys and garage opener like I did or change the locks like I think Train did. He's a big boy. He will figure it out.
I think Train is 100% right. You keep saying you are afraid he will pull the money but you keep going to town on him and he doesn't.
I hate the visual of you hiding in your room and locking the door. You should be sitting on the sofa, watching TV with a bowl of ice cream on your lap while he is tapping at the front door begging to be let in (cue wicked laugh sound track).
. (JK). 
))) what difference does this make now? How on earth can this possible tangent, or thread of "intrigue"??? or nonsense help or steer you?
