"When I think about living alone or staying somewhere alone I really do think about being away from literally everyone"
I've heard that twice in my life. It was lies both times.
She might be torn and confused, but I seriously doubt she's being honest. Her wanting to keep OM around is a big problem.
I agree my W is currently trying to sell me on this bs excuse as well. The I suddenly just need my own space to be alone. More like a space to have sex with OM without me being in the way. Please don't fall for the he's just a friend now line.
Maybe you are right but it doesn't feel that way. She is afraid, that much is true. Now her keeping OM around even as a friend isn't something I really CAN or WANT to support.
I don't know why she would go out of her way to clarify what she meant the night before. I have shown the messages to a few friends who know about the PA and as such I am not disclosing anything new and they were initially thinking she was playing me. They see an attempt to try after reading these messages. They agree that OM needs to be out of the picture.
For the most part she has respected my boundary by saying he would never come to our home. She herself introduced another rule a few weeks ago that she wouldn't hang out unless we were in a good place or if we had a bad experience. Now she could be lying and when I leave next weekend have him over but that would require a level of heinousness which if she really wanted that she could just go out for drinks and go to a hotel OR just move out. Sure it would cost her money but it would be an escape. She wouldn't go to MC and now setting up IC. The counselor also said after we left on Saturday she was worried and almost called us to see if we were okay.
My W for the most part has followed through on the "what am I contributing to this R" to the point where I wonder if SHE maybe started looking online for ways (she really does try to only exchange positive and happy emotions except when I pushed too hard because of OM...but even after that it is HER who tries to get the balance back to peace). Or maybe she really just trust this counselor. She continues to check herself when anger or resentment pops up. She has been honest for the most part about wanting to be in love but simply being too scared. If it was all about wanting to continue a PA with OM she would have found ways to do so. If she is trying to have two relationships she is making it very hard to add another R to do that equation because she suggested we cook some meals together. (Remember: she said at some point that she told OM that I probably wouldn't even care that she was with him. I know.. WW lie and deceive...but she truly DID feel I thought she was ugly and unattractive.)
Not that there isn't a small voice of doubt in my head BUT if I listen to that voice I wouldn't be honoring DR and this board because it's about doing 180s and validating her concerns and detaching and GAL. If I keep being too focused on OM and what W does or wants to do I am not doing that. Sure, I shouldn't be validating the R either but she knows I rather have her not do that.
This morning she brought up something that happened yesterday. Normally she would have yelled at me. She would have confronted me last night but instead she said she assumed I was just excited to be with friends and she shouldn't resent me for something (it was something small... I was playing music, she had mentioned earlier how her migraine was acting up...I turned it off but when a friend came by I got too excited to show him an artist that I use in the classroom and he has a similar teaching approach...we had a few drinks so I didn't recognize immediately W migraines were being brought up...about 20 minutes in I realized what I was doing and turned the TV off and actually also apologized this morning. )
Does this mean W is madly in love with me? No. Does this mean I can lower my guard? Hell no! Does this mean W is giving it a genuine effort to NOT add further pain and hurt into the R? Absolutely. Does this mean W is recognizing how she resented me more and more over the years and now wants to stop destructive patterns? I absolutely think so.
One of two things will happen. The more these positive changes continue W will recognize that her fears may not come to fruition and want to spend more time with me. She will stop texting all the time (not just OM, but her friends...who she felt needed to become her support mode because I kept saying I wasn't her therapist rather than recognizing she just needed someone to listen to). She will likely let go of OM. I am fairly certain the MC in her IC session with wife will bring that up. Either way with both of us wanting to leave the State there won't be a reality of a PA. OM won't leave (I would be shocked unless everything I read and everything I know about him is a lie and he suddenly changes his personality and approach). Even in the meantime the ONLY times W could hang out with OM if she wanted to would be really late in the evenings.
Does this seem fast? Absolutely and this will take a LOT OF TIME. But I do think a few things worked in our favor here:
- I made changes before discovering the PA - I validated her concerns (I think a few folks on here early on said that was different from other cases). In turn SHE has validated a lot of my concerns and not just nodded but actually CHANGED her behavior. - For the most part I have been consistent for over two months in major changes. The BIG one is impulse and emotional control (read through all these pages and you will see that one pop up) - The PA happened and continues at least as an EA (or actual friendship I am not dismissing that) BUT if OM worked regular hours she would have been sleeping with him daily. She would have gone on dates etc. So when I discovered it I may have been at a much bigger disadvantage if they had done a lot more. - W. DID deal with emotional distress of having the PA and recognized before I discovered it that something wasn't right. (this is my gut telling me that but also based on seeing her be VERY emotional and express suicidal ideation and "not feeling anything") - W. after I discovered the PA almost instantly wanted to make sure it had nothing to do with me. She has been almost consistently positive about my value and worth as a man and person. In other sitch I see a lot of anger and resentment and ridicule of the LBS.
Again. Maybe I am delusional. Maybe I am trying to be too optimistic. Maybe all of these positives only show she just doesn't want an explosive fight. But even that is a positive take away. Maybe, she is afraid of her image being tarnished and people judging her. That is certainly a thought that popped up in my head. But that risk won't disappear. If we split up and even if it is amicably people will ask questions. So maybe she is making these positive moves reluctantly but you know maybe she will slowly come to realize that our R wasn't that bad or at least can be a whole lot better. She has already seen what a different H I can be. She may be sad and upset it took me so long...but she is curious enough to stick it out so far.
oh absolutely. It's why I am going on the trip and why I have been able to get back and focus on work a bit more.
It continues to be mostly pleasant interactions with W. A few times she has pointed out something that in the past would have led to a huge fight because one or both of us got defensive and aggressive. Now W. instead lets it go and brings it up a bit later.
So the way I see this there are two options: W is cake eating and just wants a smooth ride until she can leave OR she is really opening up.
I don't really believe she would go the extra mile if she still just wants to leave but I suppose it's an option.
I did encourage her one more time to finally open her own bank account. I did this for three reasons:
a) she really DOES need to have one for herself b) it was something she said it would empower her and the MC said of the four things she listed that one is the easiest to do c) it confronted MY fear that she is only staying now because she feels trapped. Now that she has an account the longer she stays the more relaxed I will feel
Not much to update so far. But my trip is coming up this Friday and I cannot say I am not a little anxious. For the most part I am excited to go because a) my W says she knows how I feel and this will give her an opportunity to be honest with herself. I will have no way of knowing if they hung out or if she had an interest to do so BUT I think I will be able to see her reaction when I come back Sunday. and B) she does need rest, time and space. She says she needs to be bored and if she wants to do something there are other people she can hang out with. Again, don't believe what she says I know...
She had her first IC session on Saturday and is going back this coming Saturday when I am gone.
After her session she took me up on the idea to go buy a new lock for the front door and we did. In the store we spoke about other home improvement projects as well as making the place look nicer and more enjoyable to live in (and while not vocalized we both want to sell the house and move out of state). I am a little confused as she hasn't recommitted yet to me but in some ways it feels like she has flipped a switch. She IS scared but I do think she is trusting more and more that I too flipped a switch and take our problems seriously. I am giving her what SHE needs from me at the moment and she is giving me what I need from her as much as she can.
Don't worry I am not declaring victory anytime soon.
For the most part we have been peaceful towards each other which NEVER happened for more than a week, maybe two weeks tops over the past decade (if there have been longer peaceful moments it may have been a month...not saying there were explosive fights but things that were dumb and blown out of proportion by both of us). We both recognize warning signs. We both take turns in fact stepping away. So even if we won't survive I think we are both turning into better people.
She has not mentioned OM or wanting to hang out since last Tuesday (the night before our session) although he came up indirectly when we discussed my trip and she mentioned something how she knows I am worried he is going to come over. In all honesty she hasn't been texting a whole lot compared to what it was the past few months. And often she actually tells me who is texting and what is being shared (she could lie I suppose).
Our level of warmth and closeness was high during the week and mellowed a bit over the weekend. We are both still sick and W had some stressful things at her work on Friday afternoon. I tried to validate her experiences and listening to her but I started making suggestions to her. She was a little upset and then later apologized. But here is the thing: SHE has been the one making an effort to get back to a friendly state almost immediately after something like that has happened lately.
She has also been wanting more and more to do things together. And she is suggesting things we can do together. So I keep coming back to thinking that she at least is trying to implement what the MC is telling us to do. Maybe she does this to fool me...but if I start doubting that then I only drive myself crazy. Heck, maybe she thinks she is fooling me and then through the continued positive interactions recognizes we may have a future.
I recognize this is a marathon and this won't be fixed soon but I do see small improvements. Would I want her to say: OM is out of the picture? Absolutely. But I think she is working towards that...or is still figuring out if they can be friends. At this point I don't want to push it. I am also thinking that she has been doing some soul searching and is now saying how she hates how she knows I am devastated he came over to our home. So she is feeling pretty bad about herself. I hope that this weekend we can take some progress by not being under the same roof.
Some of this has been awkward and we both said that. Like we recognize we need to communicate better. Sometimes we assume things and then act and the other person gets upset. We both do it at different moments. But we stick with the plan from MC and we are doing more things together. At the end of the day I am THRILLED to be at that phase right now.
My W was have an anxiety attack two nights ago and she was so relieved I was able to calm her down. Yesterday she mentioned how she and two colleagues are going for happy hour on Thursday and I mentioned maybe she could get her colleague to give her a ride to work and I can stay home and she said...I can but I have been really enjoying our morning ride to campus together. She added "it feels like we are finally also working on that friendship part that we never really developed...heck we never even had a proper date". She added "and I have really been enjoying doing things together".
Again, don't believe anything she says but half of what she does right. She has been talking about this weekend and how she needs to get some rest and how she wants to maybe hang out with some people. OM's name is not mentioned. If she is manipulative and trying to get me to think by her saying other people's names that she can sneak out and hang out with him than of course that is possible but it just doesn't fit with her other actions.
Something I need to watch for is that now that she is opening up more and more I run into two problems of the past:
- I didn't always listen to her and offered suggestions. It sometimes feels like I am not authentic to always say that [censored], that is frustrating. Sometimes I phrase it into a question: "is this why you are upset because..." or "how do you feel about what you just described". She seems to enjoy that I ask questions. But sometimes it goes on and on and on so it is easy for me to start offering suggestions.
- Because she now is back to sharing stories with tons of asides and other comments that I THINK are not relevant and so sometimes I slip up and interrupt her. I think that happens because I switch from the person that I am trying to be now: on my guard and trying to not pressure her and her excitement in talking to me again switches my thinking into wanting to add to the conversation. (clearly I like to speak...as you can see in these very short posts).
The other issue is that I am trying to get her to stop thinking about how awkward some of our interactions are: like we are learning how to work as a team and we recognized that we sometimes speak different languages. She wants me to do A, and I assume it's B. It's awkward but also humbling and I am telling her that I appreciate her patience and her ability to recognize we need to work on that. And that the more we do this the more we will start to understand what is expected and we don't need to have follow up questions.
But I am feeling hopeful. I still desire her to be recommitting to me but I am also starting to accept that if this doesn't work out that I will be better if someone else enters my life. The thought saddens me as my W is amazing. In fact, I realize that I never was in love with her until very recently when she blossomed into a more self confident woman. What I thought I felt for her was affection and I enjoyed being with her but it wasn't love.
In turn she continues to develop herself and recognize that SHE needs to also be better in certain aspects.
Very humbling. But VERY glad my W is still in the same house and at least respects what the MC asks us to do. I don't know if it is because she really wants to or if she thinks it makes her end game smoother but I am deciding that I don't really care about it. If she wants to leave THIS version of who I am becoming than she is an idiot. Yes, I messed up. Yes, I made mistakes. Yes, it took me WAY TOO LONG to address this. But what I am addressing were the small things that made living with me so tough for someone like her.
