Oh Blu, I am so sorry you are hurting. You have been such an inspiration to me when you've spoken to me on my thread.
I have no advice, of course, but just wanted to say you are loved in big ways, by those both seen and unseen, and I am so thankful to have you on these boards.
Hang in there, and most of all, take care of BLU.
M-60 H-51 M-14 years BD 12/26/16 S 1/1/17
"First the pain, then the rising." Glennon Doyle Melton
I somehow missed Storm's post. Thank you. And thank you 25, Leah, and all of you. You guys are great. ... Things are better at the moment. We need to get back on with the Retrouvaille HW and sessions. It is strange because while the pendulum does not swing back and forth as often, it swings so much higher in each direction! Hard to explain in writing. Things were going so, so well, and then I have felt for weeks that I was ready to separate. These thoughts/feelings of not wanting to stay in the M have been stronger than ever. The feelings of apathy are the most unfamiliar, although maybe it is more numbness because I do have a lot of emotions in there. Maybe I am just better at burying them and protecting myself now.
C-nut, was it your thread awhile back where we discussed the difference between feelings and emotions? Maybe it was sadhub. I think I need to read those posts again.
TxHub and Storm have really opened up my eyes this week. I think that piecing is hard work, but especially hard because I didn't DB well all along. I still need to look harder at myself and mistakes, make changes for me alone, and feel better independent of him. I'll be back later, and address you guys, as I need to run out the door.
Thank you beautiful people! Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
I know that I commented in that discussion about fillings vs emotions... So I started going through my sitch, and got caught up reading every page.. I've gone through my current thread and 1/2 of my last one. I'll let you know if I find it.
M - 9 1/2 years 5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA 10/31/16 - We sold house 01/10/18 - D Finalized
Hey Blu, just ducking and checking on you. When you say things have been spiraling down, what do you mean? How would things be different if there was a separation? You mention that it would mean no more M with it's ugly past, but how would that change the past?
M 10yrs T 13yrs BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce April '17-Letting go 2018 D busted DD8, DS6, DS3
Hi Sara, thanks for checking in. When I say that things spiral down, I mean it can go very quickly from bad to worse. It's hard to explain. It started to feel like all the work and progress that we have made just disappeared and we were back to many months ago. Maybe I had assumed that as we made progress, the setbacks would be lesser. Or have less of an impact. So there was disappointment that we had come so far--felt hopeful and connected--and then poof, it was gone. I think that demonstrates that we have not made enough progress.
I know that I cannot change the past. I know that. The thing is, no matter how much progress we make, this "ugly past" will always be a part of this M. I have thought a lot in the last month about how my life would look if we went our separate ways. It is still somewhat strange to make a decision to stay in a relationship based on logistics and not based on feelings/attraction/heart. That's a thing I may always grapple with. In terms of accepting the A, well that is something I believe I will have to accept and forgive H, in order to have the kind of M I want.
Right now things are okay. I am putting my focus on my own process. Last night I had this revelation: being squished in a crowd and realizing I didn't feel anxious, was awesome and liberating. Sometimes we don't know how much something affects us until we are out of it and look back on it. I have had some crippling anxiety and I didn't quite get it about myself! I just thought that was how I was--controlling or impatient. I am going to explore that now. I can think of so many times I felt overwhelmed, anxious, and irritable, and then I ended up snapping at H and the kids. I know that hurt them and pushed them away. I can see a correlation between my anxiety and impatience with them. I know before his A, he started to feel suffocated.
In terms of H, things are okay. We are going to get back into the Retrouvaille program. Heck, we need it! We both are not good at communicating our thoughts and feelings well. I think we have eroded a lot of safety and trust. I don't just mean right after BD, but in the last couple years too. We both can be mean. So we sort of go through the motions of daily life, but it's not very satisfying. Hopefully if we can finish the program, we can be in a better position. My priority now tho, is understanding myself better. I can blame him for things sure, but I can only empower myself by looking inwards.
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
hey, in the marriage vows commonly used in America, are the words "From this day forward."
I find those^^ words of tremendous value. It's not just about forgiveness, but on that note, I now think h never forgave me for my mistakes.
It's ironic to me now, but beside my point. In other words, the time I recall feeling ashamed, I really did ask him to forgive me and he said it like he meant it.
But 20 years later, it's quite clear he did not forgive me nor did he let it go NOR did he even remember it accurately.
I don't just mean we saw it differently, I mean he literally changed it in his mind into something worse and never said a word to ME until just before our sep.
Why does it matter? Not saying it does, but it is a teaching point about what we mean when we say "let it go" or to "forgive".
OTOH
when I forgave him for his "MLC" (or whatever we call it), it's not b/c he asked me to forgive him. It's because it was impossible for me to remain married and have any peace, without it.
Now I wonder about this^^ approach. Obviously.
So my "advice" is to look at the words "From this day forward" and each of you decide if you can apply them.
As you may recall - the Retrovaille experience h and I had at the weekend, was great. Profound and probably the reason we got another decade out of the m.
But I mentioned we only went to one follow up b/c of the logistics and I smh now, seeing those words..
"it was too much of a hassle"....um, yeah, so is divorce.
the take away here - if there is one - is to
figure out what is the piece of this trouble in you, that harbors resentment about the past
(which is to be handled in some way that allows you peace, at some point in time) Versus,
real issues in your present day marriage -
AND whether you can or should work on that^^^
(I say whether you "should" b/c maybe there are legit issues in your "today m" that you Blu - cannot - accept)
but if you can and should work on these "today's m" issues, figure out how. I know there is overlap of your today problems and resentment/pain from the past.
I believe there are elements of PTSD in this, too. Literally. So maybe a T who helps deal with that aspect, would be useful.
My bet is that the Retrovaille people can guide you in selecting a new way or T for it.
And of course the simple but not easy, suggestion I have, is to complete the dang program Retrovaille has.
Their structure is a process that I'd trust.
((( )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Forgive my obtuseness but I can be VERY concrete. Some questions if you will humor me:
Quote:
It started to feel like all the work and progress that we have made just disappeared and we were back to many months ago. Maybe I had assumed that as we made progress, the setbacks would be lesser. Or have less of an impact. So there was disappointment that we had come so far--felt hopeful and connected--and then poof, it was gone. I think that demonstrates that we have not made enough progress.
What exactly does progress look like, I mean concretely? For instance, I wrote three main goals when I started my DBing journey. 1. Sleep in same bed by June 2. WH quit his job in other state and move home and work here 3. We be able to talk about the affair and WH approach me instead of waiting for me to broach it.
I've accomplished these goals but still struggle with the feeling that we are not making progress. I go back to these original goals to reflect that I have made progress. Now I need to make some more advanced goals but remember that I have made progress even if I am not 100% where I want to be.
Communication; what does GOOD communication mean? That you address things immediately? That you put time aside each week to address the holes in communication? That you are each able to reflect back what the partner is trying to convey? When have you felt TRULY connected to your H? What was being said? What was the body language like? What time of the day was it? Where were you? DBing is largely focused on magnifying the moments where things are working, where they are good.
M 10yrs T 13yrs BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce April '17-Letting go 2018 D busted DD8, DS6, DS3
I don't have much new to report. Summer is flying by, which means vacation, kids' activities, and then work as usual (but throw in some time much needed off :-). Looking forward to some travel family vacays. I think it will be nice to spend uninterrupted time together as family. Our schedules are all over the place and rarely can we all even sit down to dinner together is seems. Strangely though, I think I would enjoy this time as much with H/kids as I would with just kids. Gosh, the irony in that, too bad I can't go back a few years and serve up some of this detachment when I really needed it! In fact, I wish I could give some of you posters a few slices too. I truly, truly do. It pains me to read some of your posts because I felt the exact same way then and now I do not at all.
I would have never thought 3 years ago I would be here. Could never, ever have imagined. I was spinning and back sliding for so long--reading here every day--and I just could NOT let go, drop the rope, or imagine my life without him. Not at all. The thoughts consumed me and controlled my life. Now he is solidly back in, and while I think it is best for all of us, I KNOW WITHOUT A DOUBT I would be fine on my own. I like my alone time and privacy now more than ever. I am telling you all this because I promise things will change. As the months and years go by, things will settle and you can still have a beautiful life. It is all in your perspective and NOT in the choices your S is making. I thought then that he was doing this to me (ruining my life and taking every thing away) when really it was me not letting go that held me down.
... now I need to tackle these questions form 25 and Sara and force myself to dig a little deeper--which I have been avoiding--so here I go ...
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
"From this day forward." I honestly cannot recall if that was in my M vows. I looked for them a few years back--just prior to BD--and couldn't find them. Maybe that would have stopped him from being a chit head and leaving? Nah, doubt it. I do recall in our M vows were something to the effect of "choosing each day to stay with this family for what it is and what it is becoming." Yikes! I mean did H think he could just choose to no longer participate and bail? Maybe we thought back then that if we took the pressure off that we would more than likely choose to stay. No idea. Ha!
I think your point is that I need to start looking forward and stop looking back. Yup. I completely agree. I am sorry but I am just not there yet. I have still not full forgiven him for what he did and it does hold me back. I also know myself enough to know that I need to forgive him in order to move forward, and that if I want to, I will. So it will happen. In time I believe. I am accepting that this is going to take a much longer time than I had thought.
I am sorry your H didn't forgive you. That is more telling about him than your mistakes tho, isn't it? You can't stay only halfheartedly if you are in it for the long haul. I know that too. I can't stay where I am indefinitely. My clock is ticking. I also know that H feels that he is waiting for me and it is his choice (right) to leave at any time. I am okay with that too. I have all I need with or without him. That my friends, is what I call detachment. I savor it. It feels better than anything I have felt in years and there is no risk involved.
Harboring resentment vs real issues in present day M:
I guess it is hard for me to understand how "real" the present day issues are. I mean look, he is not anything like the current waywards, walkaways, MLC, or exhibiting any dirt-bag (for lack of a better term at the moment" behaviors. However, I also realize that while we are compatible in most ways, there has been this tiny piece missing. That tiny piece I have always accepted because my love for him was so strong and quite frankly his good qualities far outweighed it. Note I am not sharing this tiny piece because well, it feels slightly shallow. I know this is a great community and I don't think you will scoff at it (well some might), but because I don't think it's right to place too much value on this sort of thing. There are things about H I don't like and they have always been there.
The thing is, I think it is a cultural problem (and why US has high D rates) to assume that your S should fulfill all these roles (best friend, intellectual, financial, emotional, etc). So what I am saying is it is not so much "real issues" is that there are things lacking in him that I just need to appreciate in others. As I age (and my children leave the nest) perhaps this piece will be of more significance, I don't know.
I guess the "real issues" stem from the hard feelings dangling form the separation and the chitty communication that has consequently developed from those hard feelings in the last 3 years. ... Just the other night we were bickering, and there stood our littlest little watching us and sobbing (way over tired from a long day at camp) and this added stress, and then caused more bickering, and round and round we went .... it was like a bad afterschool special. Sigh.
So all in all, I think I get it. Time to move forward. We need to get back into Retrouvaille and learn to express/understand one anothers' feelings, improve on basic communication, and both work towards forgiveness and then intimacy. I think I can do that. It's the detachment and not really wanting to do it that holds me back.
Did I even answer the questions? Sorry, that was a long tangent I went off on ...
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
