No, I would tell W you no longer want to go to that counselor as you don't feel you're getting value from it and I wouldn't bring up the "relationship is over" point.
You don't know if your W said that or the counselor came up with it herself, but by focusing on it you give it more significance.
I'm not sure what it would accomplish anyway. If you say "The relationship isn't over to me!" what's the next thing that's going to happen and how is W likely to respond?
I think it will lead her to further entrench and distance more.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Thanks. You were clear about finding someone new. I just wasn't sure if it was worth mentioning to W. Sounds like it's not.
No that would fall under relationship talks and relationship talks should be put on hold for now:
"20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf."
If you take your WAS to a MC like that one that is not solutions-based and the MC mentions they think it's time to separate, then that MC suddenly becomes your spouse's BEST FRIEND EVER. They will jump all over that advice. Your W will be telling you "well the MC says S and D are the best course of action for us, who are we to argue?" Clearly that's not what you want. By the way that's exactly what happened to me and the trigger for W pushing forward with S.
Thanks Acc and AS! I don't know why I wasn't able to clearly see that bringing up the email would be relationship talk. I won't bring it up. Thanks for setting me straight.
The trick about the MC is that W has been seeing her 1-on-1 in IC for a few months, and I was only brought in after a while for MC to see if it could work out between us. (Now I'm wondering what the whole point of that was.) So W has a prior counseling relationship with her and may continue to see her whether I participate or not. But I will not participate any more and will recommend different MC.
I'd like to talk about "relationship talk". So lately, except for a slip up about a week ago, I've been good about not initiating any relationship talk. But W keeps bringing things up, so that she can let me know there's no chance things will work out. My initial response is that I understand how she feels that way. Then she asks how I'm feeling about things, and keeps digging until she gets some answers. I eventually end up saying that I'm hopeful things will work out between us, but I understand how things have gotten where they are. I will sometimes apologize again for the things I've done wrong in the relationship. And I try to steer things away from any blame going to her. She will sometimes mention that she's aware of the issues she caused in the relationship. Things always seem to end on a sour note. How can I better navigate these conversations?
Me-47,XW-43 S13,S16 M:18 BD:4-23-17 W filed:7-17-17 (5 months of in-house separation hell) W moved out:1-6-18 D granted:2-15-18 Decree signed:3-29-18
But W keeps bringing things up, so that she can let me know there's no chance things will work out. My initial response is that I understand how she feels that way. Then she asks how I'm feeling about things, and keeps digging until she gets some answers. I eventually end up saying that I'm hopeful things will work out between us, but I understand how things have gotten where they are. I will sometimes apologize again for the things I've done wrong in the relationship. And I try to steer things away from any blame going to her. She will sometimes mention that she's aware of the issues she caused in the relationship. Things always seem to end on a sour note. How can I better navigate these conversations?
She's temperature checking you to see if (1) you're still pursuing and (2) if she's still responsible for how you're feeling.
You want her to believe the answer to both of those questions is "no".
She's picking up on your body language and facial expression, your demeanor and subtle cues that you're still holding onto her leg, and she's trying to tell you to let go of it with these conversations.
Therefore, your goal should be to have her initiate these conversations less. That's your measure of success with your "Act as If" and "GAL".
The other thing I would say is you should *not* tell her how you're feeling about things. That's your business, and if she doesn't want to be married to you, she doesn't get to know that.
The less you tell her about what you're thinking or how you're feeling the better. The truth is that she doesn't really care how you're feeling, she just wants to be let off the hook, so let her off the hook and she has no reason to run.
If she starts it up again I would say "W, I feel like we've had this conversation several times. I know how you feel, for now, I'm not interested in discussing this anymore. I'm living my life and taking care of myself and that has to be good enough for now."
Then stick to your guns. Tell her nothing about your mental state or your emotions, hopes or dreams, just nothing. If she pushes you tell her you're "going to see what happens" and nothing more.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Acc, thanks for the awesome clarification! You have a great way of putting things. I need to try to internalize what you've said and use it as a playbook!
Something else I've been thinking about - It's starting to get on my nerves how we sleep in the same bed. Now, we have our kids in the house, so maybe one of us sleeping in the spare bedroom isn't a viable option and would be too obvious. But things sure would be easier for me if we didn't sleep together. And to be clear, there is ZERO intimacy right now - just the perfunctory goodnight kiss, which is starting to feel condescending to me.
Me-47,XW-43 S13,S16 M:18 BD:4-23-17 W filed:7-17-17 (5 months of in-house separation hell) W moved out:1-6-18 D granted:2-15-18 Decree signed:3-29-18
I'd still be happy to get feedback on my issues with sleeping in the same bed, posted above.
I've also been thinking about not wearing my wedding ring, to help me detach. My W doesn't wear it around the house, and not on the weekends when she leaves the house - only during the week when she goes to work (well, she takes it with her and has it on when she comes home). I actually commented on it about a week ago, how I noticed she hadn't been wearing it on the weekends. She got defensive, said she didn't notice, and said it wasn't something she intentionally did to hurt me.
Me-47,XW-43 S13,S16 M:18 BD:4-23-17 W filed:7-17-17 (5 months of in-house separation hell) W moved out:1-6-18 D granted:2-15-18 Decree signed:3-29-18
I think that sleeping in the same bed makes it hard to give space, but if you're not ready to clue the kids in, then it's what it is. But I would recommend changing your "bed time" so that your either going to bed before her, or even better, after. I don't believe your sitch mentions that there is OM, so I wouldn't initiate a good night kiss, but if she initiates it would probably not be in your best interest to refuse.
As for the wedding ring, it's a personal choice, but don't do it to get a reaction out of her. And btw, mentioning her wearing her ring, or not wearing it is R talk, so stop that. FWIW, I didn't take my ring off until I was done with the M, but not everyone feels the same way.
M - 9 1/2 years 5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA 10/31/16 - We sold house 01/10/18 - D Finalized
I have been on and off with my wedding ring the last few days. Mostly away from my W. We have been separated for 5 months she took hers off 6 weeks in and I never saw it again. She came to pick up our daughter yesterday and I am sure noticed I wasn't wearing it. She stayed less time at the house than normal and didn't say goodbye to me which she always does. DR/DB says to try things out and see what kind of reaction you get. Then ask yourself did it pull her in, push her away or neutral. In my case I think it ended up negative so I put it back on. I will see her tomorrow for a drop off and I will evaluate her behavior then. (Tomorrow is also our 4 year anniversary so that will be interesting)
I also thought taking it off was a form of detachment. After having it off this weekend, I don't think it is right for me. I am married until she puts the paperwork through saying otherwise.
holding, I had the same question regarding sleeping in the same bed. My WW and I still share the bed, no intimacy at all, we are trying to make it look as if everything is OK for now. I do know that I slept a ton better with her out of town for 4 days. As far as the wedding rings, we still ours but I am thinking of removing mine, it doesn't have the same meaning anymore, that time is gone forever! This will hopefully help my detaching, too many triggers that I look at remind me or what used to be, albeit only 6 short months ago. Everything was fine up until January!
