Limerence and My Situation

[25yearsmlc]

Park

we want you to succeed. We support your goals, even if we question your methods.

I'm reprinting a piece of another posters comments and hope you will re-read it and give it some thought. I think you did not respond directly, so I hope you'll take it in.



That sounds like a lot of mind-reading to me. You sound very clinical about this, but this isn't a laboratory and your W isn't a lab rat.

this^^^

You're dealing with emotions and emotions are ALWAYS a very unpredictable moving target.

I just get the impression you think you have this all figured out and you're hosting an online class to educate the rest of us,

No offense (really) but I got the same impression


LOL! And as a result you're not really listening or paying attention to anything anyone is telling you. And I suspect THAT attitude may be a contributing factor to why you are here in the first place,

Yes^^^^

and if it is then you are engaging in more-of-the-same behavior. [b]Ask yourself if a 180 for you is to quit putting everything under a microscope and trying to convert it into an equation to be solved.[/b]

Please take this^^^ in.

As a woman, it was kind of a turn off to hear you put all this into almost a math equation as if you are the professor examining a specimen you still feel is worth your time.
So, Is^^ this a pattern for you?

I would like to hear more about how you FEEL & less of your well researched scientific analysis of her and the situation

I'm not sure I've seen someone here as certain of their path as you are. Which concerns me, to be blunt. I am suggesting you dig deeper.

Remember, we are on your team.

[BluWave]

I apologize if I took over the thread and made it about me ...

25, I had the same thoughts/questions as you. I just wasn't sure how to articulate it.

I too am wondering his thoughts/feelings in this process? Was there a need to have control? Any stubbornness? What are your 180s? ... Would your W would say this is some of the same behavior as before? I also wonder what her complaints would have been. I am not suggesting you change for HER, but am thinking it's always good to self reflect on what wasn't working & dig deeper.

Blu

[Parkema]

Wow,

I'll respond.

"That sounds like a lot of mind-reading to me. You sound very clinical about this, but this isn't a laboratory and your W isn't a lab rat." - no she's not BUT the process is based on clinical trails AND PROVEN.

"You're dealing with emotions and emotions are ALWAYS a very unpredictable moving target.

I just get the impression you think you have this all figured out and you're hosting an online class to educate the rest of us," - sorry can be highly driven something I need to work on..!

"LOL! And as a result you're not really listening or paying attention to anything anyone is telling you. And I suspect THAT attitude may be a contributing factor to why you are here in the first place," - see above and thanks for pointing it out.

"and if it is then you are engaging in more-of-the-same behaviour. Ask yourself if a 180 for you is to quit putting everything under a microscope and trying to convert it into an equation to be solved." - I understand that women are more emotional than logical and there's no logic to what my WW is doing BUT all of the DR'ing to me sounds as though you DON'T get emotional about it and nearly all of the advice I have had has been to detach (no emotions with detachment that's just cut her off at the knees).

All, I can see your views about being a plan B and my "strategy":
1. Being a friend she can come to.
2. A safe place for her. All VERY EMOTIONAL and definitely not based on some experiment and logic.

I'm sure posters on here if not all of you are shaking your heads about now BUT not all situations are the same, people are different!

Please remember I NEVER APPROACH HER EVER. I know she's doing this to make sure I'm an option if and when the A goes south and you all feel I'm allowing this to continue unduly longer than needed (although I can't control any of that) if I were to change my stance BUT HOW:

1. I'm separated from her (really hard to leave my 2S but a boundary that had to be put in place) - we don't see each other much possibly 15 minutes each day and then she's invested in S10 & S7 to spend time with me.
2. I NEVER contact her either by text, email or phone.
3. I never pursue.
4. As best I can I'm GAL - see previous posts.

All the above is based on DR'ing but I'm not perfect it's just I have to manage my situation. Caring issues for my two boys which lead to financial issues, I'm in a position where I can manage my work to give me freedom my WW can't and has to finish a lot later than I.
Due to this I would either have to pay more for childcare or allow me to be home until the WW can pick up our 2S!

I'm sure as this thing progresses there will be a "lessoning" of interaction - basically when she picks up 2S she'll wait in the car for them. When I have them she'll be pressured in NOT turning up at my "home" and possibly FaceTime instead. Why would she do this? Due to her AP/LO insisting on her not seeing her H (cracks start to appear..?)

I'm sorry if you feel I'm too trusting in the limerent process but I can't base what is happening in my M on the premise of some sort of "star crossed lovers" and "soul mates", I know that for my WW to have done what's she's done is at least 50% my fault and I know where I fell down in my R with her.
I am working on these things if not for my present R then for the next chapter in my life.

Am I blinkered in only seeing the limerence outcome well to a degree yes BUT this is due to these facts! Experts who have been helping individuals just like us to regain their M for decades AND known studies into what happens to these wayward people's brains when the M breaks down and some $h1t chances his arm to get into her pants.

Lastly isn't consistency paramount? I understand that if my actions aren't working then I need to re-address them and look to do something else but chopping and changing how I deal with this situation will only aid in her seeing straight through them. I ask again what can I do differently than what I'm doing? Find another mate - I dearly L my wife I wish I didn't? Have absolute no contact - hard with children involved, mortgages and so on. All the above sounds a lot like "D" to me, isn't this D busting..?

Yes I believe in the limerence process but to use this in conjunction with DR'ing as best I can is the course I choose.

Thank you all and schools out.

Mark.

[BluWave]

Mark,

From everything you describe, you are doing well in your interactions. Maybe too well and so we are weary? Most people have more raw emotion in this sitch, and so either you are not sharing that or you have shut out your feelings entirely as some sort of coping mech. I am not sure. It's different than other posters though. Just so you know, this is safe place to share your feelings and frustrations. Maybe we can offer support there? We don't expect perfection and please don't expect that from yourself--it's not healthy.

I just wanted to challenge you to focus more on your process and less on her (limerance) process, as that will not serve you. As you know the timeline can be long and it does not guarantee she will want to come back to the M anyhow. When I say focus on your process, I don't just mean your interactions with her. I mean the emotional side of letting go of expectations, not feeling as if you are waiting for her, and really starting to plan a better life without her. This is not a challenge to conquer (getting your W back), but a time to learn about yourself and that goal of living a better life (that may or may not include her). But you can't live with the only goal of getting her back. That is no way to live, right?

I think this benefits you twofold. First, you allow yourself detachment and it shows stronger character to not wait for the person walking all over you to just come back when it suits them. A strong and confident person doesn't allow for this, do they? Second, women are intuitive and I would bet she knows you are waiting for her. If she knows you are waiting and are her Plan B, then she continues to not have respect or attraction for you as an H. She has less motivation to end an A and come back if she hasn't lost you yet. It is human nature. Does that make sense?

Blu

[Parkema]

Hi Blu,

Thanks for the continued support.

You are probably right to a degree that I am hiding my emotions and this may have contributed to my present predicament! Obviously I hurt a great deal but don't allow myself to let her see me in pain and instead allow her to see me GAL, as well has that I can't let my boys see me a quivering mess either.

Behind closed doors is another issue with lots of tears (there I said it!) The really hard times are when she is in contact with the boys and nothing but laughter is heard, she's having the time of her life and I'm sure you're going to say well she is due to you allowing her to. It's so sad that those that have remained committed to their M are the ones that hurt the most those and the innocent's.

As this situation evolves I feel I am hardening to her to a point where hatred is beginning to rear it's head! Progression is slow and I need to learn patients is needed if the right outcome is to be won, again I L my wife and want my M to be better than before. I am trying to work on me and me alone and all of my posts have tried to demonstrate that I work on things that make me a better person (P.I.E.S) but this whole situation is due to my WW having an A and I truly believe people don't leave something for something worse, I need to better myself as much as I can but again need you guys to keep me honest and working towards a successful outcome.

I feel I took her for granted too much and being English we aren't that emotional either this could have been construed as cold possibly BUT did all this force her to cross the line and into an A..? Well she had/has her issues also but I would have never done that.

As the days go by I'm beginning to get into a routine of being alone, I'm actually sleeping better eating well and continue to exercise daily, when I have my boys the happy meter goes up a notch and these are the best days. Then and I know it's strange but I realise that my WW will be round to either see or pick up the boys and I dread it slightly, wondering what she's going to say and how she's going to act BUT my strategies kick in.

1. Charging neutral.
2. Showing a carefree happy confident individual who's slightly aloof.
3. Being the friendly outgoing person when we're communicating.
4. That safe place for her to come to if she needs to discuss her everyday issues.
5. GAL - more and more I'm demonstrating a person who is getting on with his life (arranging who has the boys due to me GAL).

All the above is for me and the more and more this moves on I become more and more emotionally detached from her, I'm not sure if she see's it this way!

Am I working to a point where I don't care what she's doing with her/his time - yes! As long as my boys are happy and I'm slowly getting to a point where I can see me being happy with or without her then we'll be okay.

I will still continue to do my DR'ing as I really want her back and am sorry if you all feel my methods aren't quite as effective as they can be, I'll continue to monitor the progression and continue to make myself happy whilst their lives hit the fan and they work through the phases of their limerent relationship.

Thanks again and good luck.

Mark.

[AnotherStander]

I just wanted to challenge you to focus more on your process and less on her (limerance) process, as that will not serve you. As you know the timeline can be long and it does not guarantee she will want to come back to the M anyhow.

Park, I think that's a very succinct summary from Blu of what we're trying to say to you. We're not saying you're doing anything wrong, it actually sounds like you're doing great on the DBing! We're just trying to warn you that if you're trying to "outlast limerence" expecting your W to come running back after a timeclock expires then you are likely setting yourself up for disappointment.

I mean the emotional side of letting go of expectations, not feeling as if you are waiting for her, and really starting to plan a better life without her. This is not a challenge to conquer (getting your W back), but a time to learn about yourself and that goal of living a better life (that may or may not include her).

Yes exactly, well said again! Some people are natural DBers, when their WAS leaves they don't do the pursuit behavior that a lot of us do. That's my brother, when his wife of about 10 years suddenly went WAS and had an affair, he never chased her. He basically just opened the door and let her walk out. It's been about 8 years since she left, and his XW is still with OM. She never did reach out to reconcile with him. He's never dated again since she left. He's not waiting for her or anything, he just focused on being a father and dove into his work and has never tried to date again. The point being, when limerence wears off it is absolutely no guarantee that the WAS will return. Maybe they will, it happens. But maybe they won't. We have to be prepared for any outcome. How do we do that? Focus on ourselves and our kids. Become independent, strong, happy, healed. It takes a lot of time and a lot of effort. But we can emerge more content with our lives than ever before. I know that seems impossible in the grips of being an LBS, but that's the beauty of these forums is they are not filled with armchair psychiatrists, they are filled with people who have walked a mile in the LBS's shoes and not only survived, but thrived whether their M was saved or not.

[Coconut]

As this situation evolves I feel I am hardening to her to a point where hatred is beginning to rear it's head!

Is maybe anger rather than hatred? The evolution of sadness/hopelessness into anger is part of the process for the LBS. Need any suggestions on dealing with anger?

[AnotherStander]

Regarding limerence, I'm going to share a few stories I am very familiar with showing vastly different outcomes.

1. I just shared this one in the above post but my brother's W had an affair and left him. He didn't pursue, he was a good DB'er but came about it naturally. 8 years later he's still single and she's still living with OM.

2. A neighbor of mine's W left him suddenly and unexpectedly. She too had an affair although I've never been sure whether it was a PA or EA. She went out and got a tattoo that said "finally I'm free" in Latin with a butterfly, LOL! She was one of my W's enablers when W left me. 6 months later she was right back with her H and they've been together ever since (about 5 years since that happened).

3. My W had an EA that after our separation turned PA. Their limerence ran it's course in about a year and they quit dating although they still remain casual friends. She has never attempted a reconciliation, she's content to live alone and date now and then.

4. My W's best friend left her H around the same time W left me. She wasn't in an A at the time, she was just fed up with him. She did the typical WAS stuff- new clothes, lost a lot of weight, improved her hair and makeup. After they separated she started dating. She settled on a particular guy and 5 years later is still with him and is now divorced. She never tried to reconcile with her XH.

5. My mom left my dad when I was a young teen, she had gone back to work to help out the family and got caught up in new relationships and possibilities. She had an A, and eventually left. I'm not sure how much time went by, I think it was about 6 months but the A fizzled and she tried briefly to get back with my dad, but she decided she couldn't do it and started another R, then another, then another. The last one stuck and she's been with him ever since, about 40 years now.

Which of these patterns will your W follow? YOU DON'T KNOW, that's the whole point. She could be exactly like any one of these scenarios, or maybe something different than all of these. It's impossible to say.

[Parkema]

Hi Coconut,

I have a punch bag for my frustrations and I think as you can tell from my posts I'm actually quite controlled but thanks for the offer of the advice.

Blu, AS,

Last night your insights hit home a little more due to the interaction I had with my WW, I understand there is no guarantee that she's going to come back to me and I've realised this from the outset. All I'm saying is that IF she or HE comes to the point where this all comes crashing down I don't want to have placed myself at a disadvantage for RC due to me acting the jerk.

Your examples listed indicates more often than not the A's in your experience ends, true the outcomes are totally different but we have a saying here "horses for courses" I'm backing me to be the favourite...

Showing her the person she "fell" for initially I feel is giving me the best chance of the above to happen, I also understand that doing all of the DR'ing and my P.I.E.S will aid in me moving forwards in my life with or without her. Today when I took my boys to school a woman who we both know said "Mark you're looking well" I said "I feel well" and walked to work with a springer step than usual.

Obviously this is totally lost on my WW as she doesn't see me at all at the moment due to her infatuation with her AP/LO but regardless of if she does or does not life goes on and it's obvious that me working on me is having a benefit.

I read on so many posts that in most cases the LBS eventually gets to a point where he/she "lets go" of his/her WS and I can totally understand this. I am beginning to care less and less about her and am progressively finding it hard to continue to want to work on my M BUT when I have the boys and I see/feel the interaction we "all" have when we're together including my WW is brings it back home. A pity she doesn't see it.

Again all I HAVE TO HAVE THE INTERACTION I can't get away from it unless I find a solution to the financial issues or she finishes work earlier (I can't control that) so I make the most of it but I am finding it harder and harder to care about my M and that is scaring me a little bit.

Would you suggest this happen and I give up working on showing her that's she's wrong in doing what she's doing? The logical progression for this is D and I'm not here to aid in that process although I accept it if it's inevitable which it might just be but I continue to fight. What would both you do..?

Thanks again.

Mark.

[Ginger1]

I would recommend you give up on showing her that she is wrong. That rarely ever works.

The only one you need to show anything to is yourself. That you are being the best man for yourself. That you are being the man YOU want to be. The rest will follow if it's meant to be.