What should I be doing now (Time to Move on?)

[EastTN]

I know these are little things, but I’m having a hard time explaining how/why I began to feel that my wife was more emotionally connected to my S than to me. There were several times that I sat her down and explained to her that I felt she was putting love for son ahead of me and that it was very frustrating to me…

I did this. I always put D first. I felt like I was supposed to. Everything I did was D first, W second, and me last, if at all. W says she did the same (though I'm not convinced of that).

D's not my emotional partner by any stretch, but I thought I was honoring our marriage by putting D first. I didn't understand the negative consequences of that until it was too late. I really didn't understand the negative consequences of "not caring about me" until it was too late, either.

The kicker is how to not put D first in a relationship with someone who isn't her mother. The dynamics there are a bit different. Single dad first, everything else second place. I'm guessing from what you're saying here that THAT isn't going to work, either.

Where's the balance? Since you've lived it, and it was an issue for you, what's the "right thing" look like?

[cadence]

Hi Coconut.

Hmm. Yes, making kids into emotional partners is A Thing. It's actually pretty common, but mostly amongst parents who have already divorced from one another and/or were always single parents. It's most common with mothers and sons and fathers and daughters. My H did this a little with his teenage daughter until I pointed it out to him. It largely stopped, until before BD when he was triggered into some sort of emotional regression.

I can't link you to materials due to DB policy of not promoting other materials, but typing the following into a search engine comes up with several helpful results: parents turning opposite sex child into emotional companion.

There's an icky term for it: emotional incest. Usually the parents who turn their kid into their partner have issues, like a personality disorder.

[cadence]

I did this. I always put D first. I felt like I was supposed to. Everything I did was D first, W second, and me last, if at all. W says she did the same (though I'm not convinced of that).

D's not my emotional partner by any stretch, but I thought I was honoring our marriage by putting D first. I didn't understand the negative consequences of that until it was too late. I really didn't understand the negative consequences of "not caring about me" until it was too late, either.

The kicker is how to not put D first in a relationship with someone who isn't her mother. The dynamics there are a bit different. Single dad first, everything else second place. I'm guessing from what you're saying here that THAT isn't going to work, either.

Hi East, You've heard plenty of me today, huh? I'm here because Coconut asked for my advice, given that my H was a product of his mom making him into her partner and elevating him above her husband (but she also made H into a family scapegoat. It was all very twisted.)

This is my personal opinion, but I believe that modern parents have, well, lost their minds with this idea that children can be central to their families and that they can neglect their spouse because the spouse will still be there when the kid(s) are grown. There's also this idea that losing your identity to be no more than "parent" means you're a good parent to your kid, but I'd argue otherwise.

Neglecting a spouse in favor of kids is going to erode connection with your spouse. And making children the central focus of families tends to create kids who are entitled and somewhat helpless.

Don't get me wrong. I know children need to be loved and made to feel emotionally safe. But one major item that makes them feel safe is a stable home life with happy parents who are connected to one another. With that in mind, I wonder if the self-sacrificing child-centric parent understands that putting their kid first doesn't actually put their kid first because it is also eroding a major source of stability for those kids?

As for putting your daughter first when/if you repartner with a new woman, I can weigh in on that one too as a stepparent. Do it at your own risk. Honestly, if you give validity to the idea that you need to protect your child from a woman you supposedly love and think highly of, then you're not ready for another relationship. If you've chosen wisely and gone slowly, to allow your daughter to adjust (even if she's not thrilled, because who is thrilled to have divorced parents and a new adult in their life?) then there is no competition and no threat.

Keep kids as kids. Making them into little adults is too much pressure for them. They're not capable of being an adult decision maker because they aren't an adult decision maker. Literally, their brains are still forming. They aren't mature. They are adorable little bundles of immaturity and self-centeredness because they are kids with kid brains. That's why they need adults to be adults. They're helpless and lack experience!

What they need is to be allowed the innocence of a childhood (making them your companion or central to your life robs them of this) and to see their parent happy and fulfilled. Watching hwo a healthy relationship works - which does not involve de-prioritizing the adult person you love to be at a lesser rank than a child - is good for them and they get the best chance of finding one for themselves one day.

So, people who are putting your kids "first", are you really doing that when you break it down like I have above? Or is it really all about your own insecurities...?

[cadence]

Forgot to mention, Coco, it's likely that your son will need counseling, no matter what happens with your M.

What your W is doing to him is robbing him of the innocence to emotionally be a child. He's her caretaker. He's her partner. And he is in no way capable to handle these things.

If he doesn't get help for it, he'll grow up and find another woman to caretake, and the likelihood that a woman who will be looking for a man to caretake her emotions is not a healthy person is 100%.

[Ginger1]

This is a very interesting topic. I remember when I ws pregnant my asked me to promise him I would not love our child more than him. I told him I couldn't do that. I told him the love I have for him and for our child are two very different kind of loves. We only were together for the first 6 months of our daughters life, when she was completely dependent on us, but I always made sure I treated him as a husband (little did I know he was cheating on me since I was pregnant). My ex remarried his OW at 31 and she is 5 years older and wanted kids, but he did not. And I know why he did not. The full-time parenting gig would mean that he would have to share his wife all the time. Although I wasn't a helicopter parent in that 6 months, I know he was fearful of the having the same woman who is the mother of his child as his wife. He is a needy individual. So, he's got it just as he wants it now. I am pretty sure that's a part of the reason he engaged in an affair.

I have been single for 9 years. I introduced my daughter to only 2 men and that has been in the last year and a half. The first one it wasn't an issue because it was a LDR and we were all only together once, the three of us the weekend they met, once for a weekend when his daughter was there too, and then again when the 4 of us went on vacation together.

I have been in IC for 2 years mostly to help me manage post D relationships. I was recently with a guy for 3 months, and she knew my exBF before we began dating, because I attended the gym class he did and my D9 came. So we couldn't hide our R. I feel I did a very good job of balancing the two. But it was certainly an adjustment to have a man in our home spending time with us and often. One who is not a parent himself. She adored him and he got along well with her. My D9 is welcoming to men in my life because it's been just the two of us for so long, she really enjoys it. But I know how it hurts her when one leaves, so there is certainly no revolving door. Also, we had one parenting disagreement. My D9 is a good kid, but when she goes to bed, she has to call down a few times to "make sure I didn't leave" She will get out of bed to make sure I am still there. he couldn't understand why I tolerated it. He also wasn't a parent. My daughter has been going between two homes her whole life which is pretty difficult. If she needs some reassurance to feel safe, I give it to her. Something he just couldn't understand.

It's been me and my D9 for so long, we do have a different relationship. And she is an emotional partner in ways. She brings a light to my life, I comfort her, and she comforts me. I was extremely mindful though of her not being the center of everything while also not being neglected or excluded. When he broke up with me I was very hurt. I found myself being hurt because of the loss of him and I. I was hurt for my D because she was hurt too, but when we had the convos while breaking up, I took mind even then to make it about us and not about her. (he was 9 years younger than me, and when we got serious he realized kids of his own are a must, and when he would be ready, I would be too old).

It's good you spoke up. I would hope a partner would do the same for me in a loving way, because I might not be realizing what I am doing because reality is, its been just me and her since she was a baby, and yes, she has been the center of my universe for that reason.

Hope that made sense. Dating a single parent as well as dating as a single parent has its own challenges. Heck, being a parent, especially in this society, one very unlike our parents raised us in is challenging!

[Coconut]

The kicker is how to not put D first in a relationship with someone who isn't her mother. The dynamics there are a bit different. Single dad first, everything else second place. I'm guessing from what you're saying here that THAT isn't going to work, either.

Where's the balance? Since you've lived it, and it was an issue for you, what's the "right thing" look like?

East, a balance is tough to find. But some highlights of what bothered me were:

My primary Love Language is acts of service. When first Married, my Wife started laying out work clothes in the morning for me to wear, it was a small gesture but I loved loved loved it, I had never had anyone do that for me, I let my wife know how much I loved it. About 2 months later, it stopped, but everyday she still laid out my sons clothes. I wasn’t devastated at the time, but I missed it, and brought it up twice several years apart during our M, but didn’t have the tools to understand why it bothered me or how to communicate that with her.

Early in our M, W would do the laundry, mine, hers and sons. In fact a few times I would do some laundry and was asked not to with attitude because apparently I don’t know how to do it correctly (I only turned whites pink once in my entire life). Slowly, my laundry was getting done less and less, my sons was still getting done weekly but that was it. My W is a bit of a shopaholic, so she could go over a month without laundry, but I have a weeks worth at most, and I found myself conflicted of doing the laundry myself and getting chastised or just re-wearing some clothes. After BD, she actually said she always did my laundry every week and I think she actually believed it.
One thing that worked well for us is that since my son was so young when we got together, and he started calling me dad on his own, we were equal parents in our eyes, so I didn’t have a problem with her “siding” with him in stupid arguments, but I would not suggest siding against W unless you really need to put your foot down.

I guess my thoughts overall are that kids are not the rulers of the family, you protect them, make them feel loved and make them feel safe, but not letting them get their way doesn’t mean you’re not doing any of the above.

There's also this idea that losing your identity to be no more than "parent" means you're a good parent to your kid, but I'd argue otherwise.

Neglecting a spouse in favor of kids is going to erode connection with your spouse. And making children the central focus of families tends to create kids who are entitled and somewhat helpless.

I completely agree, my W spoiled our son and do EVERYTHING for him, if I would ask him a question, she would answer it. If I asked him to make a decision on something, she would make it for him. He became very unmotivated, to the point where he wouldn’t mention a project due for school until the day before it was due, and W would stay up all night to do it for him. I went to bed because my stance was that he can take the F, get grounded and learn that he needs to take care of his responsibilities. He’s a great kid, just finished 11th grade and he was Athlete of year at his school, 4.8 GPA, he’s taken 1 or 2 College courses a year all the way through highschool and has a good social life. But he puts everything off and then stresses last minute because he didn’t do what he was supposed to.

Thank you for posting Cadence.

It's good you spoke up. I would hope a partner would do the same for me in a loving way, because I might not be realizing what I am doing because reality is, its been just me and her since she was a baby, and yes, she has been the center of my universe for that reason.

Ginger, it is good I spoke up, looking back I realize that I had a pretty good grasp on what was bothering in my M, I just didn’t know how bad allowing those things fester was, and I didn’t have to tools to really be able to communicate them to my W.

Loving your child to death and showering them with “Love” isn’t the same as allowing them to control the family. You just have to be careful you’re not spoiling them with your “Love”. My way to show my love for my son was to turn life events into “Life Lessons”, consequences, how to deal with altercations, doing things you don’t want for the sake of others, and most recently relationship advice.

He told me a couple of weeks that advice I gave him when him and his first gf broke up was the best advise he’s ever heard. I told him that it is common to be infatuated with a new gf, you want nothing more than to be with them and get more and more of them. The problem is, that in only spending time with that other person, you lose yourself, and when the infatuation wears off you are no longer the person they were attracted to in the first place.. The happiest relationships are those where each person is happy on their own, then they come together to share in each other’s happiness, but to do that you have to also spend time apart.

[Gordie]

Yes, this is a thing. When my mother was disconnected from my father, she would spend more time with me and confide in me and use me for emotional support in a way that is not healthy between a parent and a child. This is what adult friends and relatives are for!

[Coconut]

So it's been almost a year since any kind of R talk, I an drinking tonight and text my WW, "I've been thinking about you lately, maybe because sons coming up to visit, but are you OK? You happy?"

I can honestly say I have no idea what the response will be, or if she will respond, but it's been awhile since we've spoke, and I'm curious how she'll respond..

[Tread]

Coconut,

I'm curious to hear how this goes to be honest.

[Coconut]

Tread,

I don't think you know my sitch, but I didn't DB well, I wasn't able to detach and I got angry. I insulted my WW, I slashed her tires and kicked in 3 doors, so I don't expect I'll ever be reuniting. But what I do want is to be able to be civil, so this is kinda starting to open up a communication channel with her on a personal level.

As for the text, she responded after an hour with- "thank you. No, I'm not at all but I'm just trying to figure it all out".

Then she started texting about an issue with my son.

So didn't make much headway there, although she did respond, she didn't reply with the customary, how about you, so no idle conversation. I'm not sure what she's trying to figure out, or if she's just trying to express misery because she thinks that's what I was hoping to hear... Who knows, a year later and my mind reading skills still aren't up to par.