Hello everyone. I’m new here, only just recently discovered this site via another forum. I’ve been lurking and reading a bit here lately. It seems like this would be a good place to tell my story and to get some advice to help me with my current situation.
My wife and I are in our mid 30s and will have been married 12 years later this year (together about 15 years). We have three kids young kids, a house, 2 cars etc
About 8 months ago my wife came up to me and told me that she didn't think we should be together anymore. That something was missing and we were just like flatmates. This of course came out of nowhere for me. I was absolutely shocked and lost for words. I got the ILYBNILWY when I asked her if she still loved me. I didn't know what had just happened. My world had just been turned upside down.
Having found Sandi2’s Reflections thread today, I’ve realised everything I have done up until this point has been a typical “Nice-Guy” approach, so bare with me.
My W could never tell me exactly what went wrong and didn't seem to want to try and fix the MR. I wanted to try everything there was to save the MR but she was never interested, instead saying that it wouldn't change anything, she can't change the way she feels. Eventually she asked for some space so I moved out to my parents place.
After about a week I moved back home, into the spare bedroom, but we were separated. We tried talking about things numerous times. Every Time it was the same thing. I wanted to try everything to try and fix our MR, she did not. It wouldn't change anything she said. Which confused the hell out of me. Why wouldn't she want to try fix our MR after 15 years together?!?! It confused my family and friends as well. This went on for a few weeks and I gradually started to come to terms with the fact that she wasn't going to change her mind..
One day as I get home from work she seemed a bit different, like something was on her mind and asks if we can talk. This is where the BD happened. She had been having a PA ever since that afternoon when she told me that we shouldn't be together anymore. To make it worse, the AP was a “friend” in the street, who was also married. She had lied to me and our closest friends about everything.
Between that moment and now it’s been a bit of a roller coaster for me. We have stayed together and tried to work through things. Most of the time I would say that our MR has been the best it has ever been! The PA is definitely over, there is no contact between them anymore, but recently I feel that in her head the EA is still going on. My W has only been to a few counselling sessions, only one of those was a joint one. We have had plenty of discussions where I have to work hard to get her to open up. She says she doesn't like to talk to me about it since she hates seeing how much it upsets me. “It” being the fact that she doesn't feel anything for me. She says she loves how much I have changed, how I am with the kids, how I am with helping around the house etc, she just doesn't have any intimate feelings for me anymore. The last time I heard this was about a week ago. As usual, I thought things were going great before talking to her. But this time it got me thinking. I’m really starting to question why I am still in this MR. I’m getting nothing out of it while she is getting everything she wants out of it. What am i doing here if she is emotionally in love with someone/something else??
I realise now that I have handled this whole situation wrong. I have been the “nice-guy” the whole time. I read a lot of books and turned myself into the model husband. (This wasn't entirely just for my W or the MR, I also wanted to change for myself to be a better father to my kids). I do still love her and want to save our MR, but I can't go on living in this “limbo” while she makes up her mind. I can't go on waiting while she feels nothing for me and IMHO, is still having an emotional affair. I need to gain the upper hand back.
The last chat we had she said she needs space. We currently aren't “separated”, but there is no intimacy between us anymore. She is going to go and talk to someone again and try and sort her head out. She is worried about making a big mistake and losing me. Everyone is telling her that I am a great guy and that she should stay together with me. She is worried about losing a lot of friends. We have only told a few close friends and family about the PA, and should it come out, naturally, everyone would take my side. I don't want to punish or get vengeance on my W, I’ve forgiven her and want to move forward, but I don't think she has really had to deal with any of the consequences of her actions yet. That is probably mostly my fault.
As I’m writing this I am, for the first time, considering going home tonight and telling her it's over. I’m not going to live in limbo while she is emotionally somewhere else. Is that what I need to do? I don't know. This whole situation [censored]. Its exhausting. I’m mentally drained everyday from thinking about this. I’ve read Sandi2’s rules/180 and am trying to implement that. I’m finding it hard to do since we aren't technically “separated” atm. My W is quite normal around me. Happy, talks about the future, calls, messages throughout the day etc. And I cling to every little bit of hope.
I hope that all makes sense. Confused and scared about what to do from here. I’m definitely going to start on some of Michelle’s books. Is it best to start on her latest? Healing from Infidelity??
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Get and read DB. There's a lot of good info in there to help your situation.
One of the many things that helped me was the idea that "if what you're doing isn't working, stop doing it." You say she hasn't had to live with the consequences of her actions. Well, maybe it's time she does. Maybe something like organizing family outings that don't include her.
There are lots of suggestions in the books, but most importantly, realize that you can only change you. So get started. Do things without her that you used to do before you were married. Remind her of the guy you used to be when you had a life of your own.
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
I'm sorry you're having to go through this but it's salvageable. Please read the thread about being the lighthouse Cadet has posted if you already haven't it gets you into a great mind set.
Thankyou all for the replies. I'd already started working through some of those resources linked but will keep at them.
I purchased Michele's "Healing from Infidelity" book and will have that finished in a couple of days. Planning on grabbing DB after. I'm hoping they will help give me some direction as at the moment I have no idea what to do.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Having found Sandi2’s Reflections thread today, I’ve realised everything I have done up until this point has been a typical “Nice-Guy” approach, so bare with me.
Yeah, most of us here were like that. Here's the thing, our W's were originally attracted to us because of our alpha behavior. We were strong, independent, self-sufficient. We hook up with them and get married and have kids and become very beta- we take out the trash, do the yard, help with the kids. So what happens when our W loses the attractiveness and goes WAS on us? We double-down on the beta behavior! We cook, do laundry, clean the house! That is NOT what we should be doing to try to win her back. What will attract her back to us is the alpha stuff. That's why we talk about getting back in shape, losing weight, changing your wardrobe, start wearing cologne if you don't, get out and get a life. Become the alpha male you once were. In the process you start loving and respecting yourself again, and THEN the WAS might start finding you attractive again.
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My W could never tell me exactly what went wrong and didn't seem to want to try and fix the MR. I wanted to try everything there was to save the MR but she was never interested, instead saying that it wouldn't change anything, she can't change the way she feels.
And you need to respect her feelings, because right now all your efforts are telling her "he just wants me back, as usual he is all about what HE wants and not what I want." Give her time and space.
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I wanted to try everything to try and fix our MR, she did not.
Yeah she just sees that as you forcing your agenda on her. Remove all pressure.
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Which confused the hell out of me. Why wouldn't she want to try fix our MR after 15 years together?!?! It confused my family and friends as well.
Because she was trying to get your attention for months or even years. You probably saw it as complaining and nagging and shut down on her. So she quit trying, and you thought things had gotten better because she wasn't nagging anymore. So then BD happens, and you're shocked. It seems to have come out of nowhere. But for her it's been going on for a long, long time.
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I gradually started to come to terms with the fact that she wasn't going to change her mind..
Not anytime soon, but eventually she might. This takes time.
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“It” being the fact that she doesn't feel anything for me. She says she loves how much I have changed, how I am with the kids, how I am with helping around the house etc, she just doesn't have any intimate feelings for me anymore.
Yeah that's the alpha versus beta thing I mentioned above. You're a great housekeeper, father, etc. And that is FANTASTIC. But that's not what's going to make her attracted to you.
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But this time it got me thinking. I’m really starting to question why I am still in this MR. I’m getting nothing out of it while she is getting everything she wants out of it. What am i doing here if she is emotionally in love with someone/something else??
YES, that is a very valid question to ask yourself. Why are you trying so hard when she's not even willing to lift a finger? Maybe you should quit trying to fix the M and work on yourself instead. Because if you do that, then you will WIN whether the M is saved or not.
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She is worried about making a big mistake and losing me.
You WANT her to worry, you WANT her to miss you. We all have made the mistake of trying to be there for the WAS no matter what. We make the perfect Plan B for them, the backup that they know is there if their primary plan (usually OM) fails. But guess what? If we're so willingly in reserve then they don't have to fight for us, or do anything at all. They just know we're there like a puppy dog, waiting for them to come home. So they don't feel any urgency about it, they can just keep chasing their dream indefinitely while we sit there waiting.
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As I’m writing this I am, for the first time, considering going home tonight and telling her it's over.
That would be a very alpha thing to do, and surprisingly a move like that can snap the WAS out of their dream and make them realize the LBS is more important to them than they thought. But here's the thing, you can't do it as a strategy because she may very well agree. If you do it, make sure you do it because that's what you want.
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My W is quite normal around me. Happy, talks about the future, calls, messages throughout the day etc.
But no intimacy, so I would say things are not at all normal, correct?
Forbet, I'm going to quote a few of Sandi2's recent posts, because what I think you need to do is try and get an understanding of a WW mindset, and the mindset that exists after an affair.
My suggestion for you right now, is give her space. Be friendly, be kind, be there for her when she approaches you (validate), but give her time and space. While she's getting space to work on her, you keep working on yourself. I'd recommend reconnecting with friends and doing lots of things with them, or doing things that will help you make new friends. It will really help you to be passionate about life, and passion is sexy to her. 1. If your sleeping in the same room, do not pressure intimacy or relationship conversations at bedtime. 2. Don’t initiate any conversation talks, only have them if she initiates and make sure you validate her feelings, you don’t need to agree, but you need to verbalize that you understand how “SHE” feels about it. 3. If she questions why you’ve backed off, offer up that you’ve noticed that she’s struggling with trying to figure things out and you want to give her the space she needs to figure out what she wants.
Here are the quotes:
Originally Posted By: sandi2
All in all, it wasn't too much time until I decided to go NC with OM, cold turkey. And that experience made me a true believer about the addictive power an A can hold. I can't remember exactly, now. I know the first 4 weeks were hell. The first 4 months were hard withdrawals......and around 6 months it began to taper off some. But it would take about 2 years before I began to feel like I wanted to put effort into my MR.
The WW has to go through a process, which can be very agonizing and long, if she has years of resentment and disrespect, as was the case with me. Although similar behavior patterns, each woman is an individual story. Every woman had problems and issues in life that may have had no connection to her having an A........... and those problems are still there when the A ends........plus the destruction the A caused. The pre-affair and post-affair complexities often require guidance from a professional therapist, in order to piece their life back together......and certainly, piece the M.
I'm not sure what you mean in question #2. To try and give a shorter answer to #3 & #4, I have always needed at least one person I could talk to about problems. However, nobody in my world knew this woman I had become. I was not ready to reveal to my family or friends, b/c if they knew the truth, they would have been shocked! So, the need to talk to someone was getting stronger. One night I decided to reach out for guidance, and I sought a Christian chat room or forum (can't remember). I must have chose an off night, b/c I quickly moved on.......and saw something about divorce busting. Along with the information I was receiving, I began seeing a few cracks in the knight's armor. So, I think timing played a big part, at least for me.
I did the hard work. I am still with my H. I am still here, but not as a WW. A former WW, passing forward (I hope) the favor that was given to me.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
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AND she had to decide it was time to change again. Just like the LBS has to decide that it is time for them to change their behaviors.
Thanks, Cadet, for pointing that out. Let me also add, and I hope this will help Parkema........for me, it started with a decision to "do the right thing". Well, let me back up just a little, and say it really started with me wanting to talk with someone who understood. I had really no desire to jump back into my MR with both feet. I thought I had no energy left. At the time, my feelings for my H had certainly not changed from negative back to positive. I really want the LBS to get what I am saying here. How many times have I read the threads of some H who desperately wants his W to end her affair........and when she finally does end it, he is hurt further b/c she does not immediately fall into his arms! It took time for her to fall out of love with her H (the feelings of being in love), and then she thought she was in love with OM, and then she ends that R and is expected to immediately feel in love with her H again? It doesn't work that way, from what I experienced and have studied. She has to go through a process. For me, it started with turning to help (and I got it here on the board) and then it was a matter of doing the right thing.....instead of doing what my emotions wanted. Let me tell ya, my process was long. Making the decision to do what is right is just the beginning for her. Until then, I see no way for a successful reconciliation. She could sit around for a lifetime, waiting for loving feelings to prompt her actions. And that can become a crutch for some waywards, by saying they have no feelings. For me, I had so many years of resentment that it worked as a roadblock to the right feelings, along with remorse and other issues I would need to resolve. Thus, the answer for why the process took me so long
Although I had not behaved accordingly, my moral and spiritual beliefs were still implanted deep within me. Personally, I don't think a wayward suffers much with feelings of guilt (at least not enough to change her direction) at the time of acting out in rebellion, b/c WW's have a sense of entitlement and self justification. Many LBH's want to think their WW feels guilt, but even if that's true.......the mindset of the wayward is going to trump guilty feelings, at least during the peak of the rebellion. When my H confronted me, I felt like the guilty kid who had been caught with her hand where it didn't belong. I mean, he had solid proof! I even cried! 24 hours later, I took the affair deeper underground.
She has to end all contact with OM. If she feels no remorse, it will come when she truly releases her resentment, entitlement, justification, and score keeping. If she continues to throw up the past, then she has not let go. I did not bring it up, I just held on to it. This is one of the areas that couples often need professional help while they try to heal.
Let me quickly clarify something about the WW feeling guilty during the upside of her affair. Her heart has hardened. It has become cold, especially toward her H and the naysayers. However, she knows right from wrong! Her attitude is, "I don't care if it's wrong, this is what I want". There was a song by Barbara Mandrell, "If Loving You is Wrong, then I Don't Want to be Right". Talk about a song of wayward attitudes!
Anyway, back to making a decision to do the right thing. Before I actually made that decision, I told one of my mentors that I felt as if I had stayed in my M for the sake of my children, and now was I suppose to sacrifice my last chance at happiness for the sake of my grandchildren.......was there no time that I could do something for my sake? Good lord, that embarrasses me, today. It shows the sheer selfish mindset of a wayward wife who saw herself as a victim of an unhappy MR. Although I don't often recommend MC for those who are wayward (b/c there are many who will encourage the wayward to divorce and to find what makes you happy), advice (good or bad) can reach the wayward. Many MC's encourage the H to pursue, have date nights, and that type of nonsense. This is waywardness we are talking about, and that kind of advice is not the type that 's needed. It's better if the timing is right and there is a therapist who understands the wayward mindset. What I mean by the timing being right, is that I had willingly come to the board, in search of help. I was at a crossroad, and wanted someone to tell me why I should stay in my M. I wanted more than dime store "stuff" that I had read for years. If you could have seen how many books I read over the years! Btw, before finding this forum, I had even went to a highly recommended counselor in my area. Upon hearing about my affair, she immediately told me I had done nothing wrong! What? Of course I had! I was wayward, but I had enough sense to know right from wrong. I never returned for a follow up session.
I had to make a decision. Would that decision be based on what I was feeling, or would it be based on what I knew was the "right thing to do"? In spite of my negative feelings, I chose to follow the moral and spiritual values that had been planted many years ago. I don't say this so someone will think I'm exceptional, I am trying in my own weak way to explain that we often need to make decisions that our emotions don't like, and that's just a fact of life.
As a WW, making that decision was one of the hardest things, b/c it meant I had to do follow the logical, smart, and best way, instead of the easiest. It took me about two years, after making that decision, to get to the place to start working on my MR. That doesn't sound encouraging, I'm sure. I went a long time before actually telling the board members, b/c I knew how discouraging it must sound to newcomers. But finally, after seeing so many who did not understand why the WW could not respond as well as the LBH wanted, I started telling them just how long it took me. That's not to say it will take every WW that long. Each WW takes a different span of time to process what is needed.
Limerence is dangerous, IMHO, b/c of the destruction one can cause while under the influence. Another thing I want to point out is that once she comes through the state of limerence, there is absolutely no guarantee that her feelings for you will return. However, in time, it is quite possible. In some cases, the WS will D and M during their time of limerence, only to realize later their mistake. By then, the former spouse has moved on with a new life. Karma can really be a b'tch.
I hope you don't get dizzy while reading this post. Sometimes I tend to jump around with my thoughts.
M - 9 1/2 years 5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA 10/31/16 - We sold house 01/10/18 - D Finalized
