she felt the everyday LITTLE parts of intimacy was lacking. She needed more longer hugs, more passionate kisses, just more physical everyday touch. I can blame myself for not understanding exactly what she was telling me was lacking but on the other hand she also did not communicate clearly what she meant when she said she felt the intimacy was lacking.
Actually, She did communicate that in the examples you give above. She wanted something from you and said what it was and now you say you didn't understand it and that it's her fault for not making it crystal clear or repeating it to you (i.e. nag). Sounds like she wanted more affection outside the bedroom. And or more foreplay.
I think it took a lot of humility & risk on her part, to have expressed this to you.
Feeling desired outside the bedroom and wooed inside the bedroom, tends to affect how much libido a w will feel, too. Sometimes when a h complains about how his "w doesn't want sex", the w mentions a conversation she had with him some years earlier wherein she told him of HER unmet sexual or romantic needs...which is tragic really.
Because I thnk most h's would put in the effort - b/c they love their w's (and b/c they love sex & would have had a lot more of it!).
*Also- When you admit something you want to work on, or an error on your end
and then say "But she..." you essentially negate your admission. You make it her fault.
Blaming her - usually makes you exactly the same as you were before. (After all, Since you made no error, what's to change?? Therefore, what can she expect to change in the m?)
Do you want to dig deep and make some changes, or make this all about who is at fault?
You can do this.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Now hold on, don't think I'm saying you're a moron and the worst h ever. I"m explaining to you, HER Possible view point. And a source of pain and sense of rejection for her.
Make sense?
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I DO feel like a moron knowing now what I didn't realize then, why did I react that way? The only thing I can come up with is I felt that what I was giving her wasn't good enough for her and that made me feel insecure, when really it wasn't that at all she just wanted me to show her her love language more often to her.
I've been discovering her view point and her source of pain and rejection since just days after she left. That's been the hardest part of this journey thus far is looking in the mirror and seeing a man that could've so easily kept his marriage strong by doing the things that I did the first several years of our relationship but got sloppy so quickly after we said I do. My understanding on why she felt she needed to leave and her feelings of hopelessness and her belief that it's too far gone to reconcile is coming painfully clearer daily. But I will still be focused on improving myself still in hopes for her to want to reconcile one day but just as much for myself.
Constructive feedback Or someone telling you they need something more from you, is not an attack.** When you see feedback as an attack, your response will not be a productive one.
((Hypothetically, What is a wife to do if she has an unmet need but knows her h will lash out at her, for his injured ego?))
When someone feels attacked or feels inadequate - their response will worsen the situation.
In your own example earlier, your w told you how you could make her feel more desired, what was missing in the intimacy, etc.
You yourself said you "felt attacked, and inadequate". So you lashed out. You punished her for Your interpretation, by "giving her the cold shoulder".
I know you would not do this^^ again now. I'm not trying to belabor that example.
I'm asking if you can you see how there is a pattern in your own narrative, herein?
How can we help that narrative serve you better?
Just so you know - when I FIRST confronted my role in the failure of my m, and examined it more closely, (which I continue to do b/c it's ongoing process to learn from), it was devastating.
I wanted to believe it was ALL H. Then I saw that i did play a role in things, or at least I made several poor choices elsewhere. And this revelation brought me to my knees.
And then...I grew.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Actually, She did communicate that in the examples you give above. She wanted something from you and said what it was and now you say you didn't understand it and that it's her fault for not making it crystal clear or repeating it to you (i.e. nag). Sounds like she wanted more affection outside the bedroom. And or more foreplay.
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The examples I gave are things I have discovered she wanted since she left. When she was talking about the intimacy 1 1/2 years ago she didn't go into detail. Her words if I remember correctly were "I feel like our intimacy is lacking" But she did not give examples of how or which part of the intimacy she was talking about, again I should've handled it completely different and asked questions at the time so I could've understood what she was talking about. I'm not playing the blame game cause it really wouldn't do any good anyways. I've been very humbled during this and have discovered a bunch of my mistakes/flaws during our marriage. I am in the process of trying to rid those bad habits that I picked up somewhere down the line in our R.
So as I attempted to spice up the love life by doing different things in the bedroom I thought I was correcting the issue she had but I was way off, and the fact that she never brought it up again led me to believe I made the necessary changes. a lot of men say things like "since she didn't say it again, I assumed I had fixed it..."
It's frustrating to read that^^ b/c there's no behavioral change to justify believing it had been fixed. Yet a lot of h's say this. And it's sad b/c I know most men here really do care about their m's or they would not be here.
Here is something to ponder.
* "when a woman expresses an unmet need in a relationship, if it's not changed, she will feel hurt & rejected. Her belief will be that her h does not love or respect her as much as she hoped.
When she considers repeating the unmet need to her h, she will fear 2 possible reactions.
One is that the behavior will still remain unchanged - revealing to her again, that her h does not care for her as she needs. AND OR she fears she will be portrayed as a "nag" who is "always complaining/nagging me". (& i.e. That she's a b1tch.)
Sometimes the w becomes resentful, silently. Sometimes she escalates her comments but in another subject, sniping about an unrelated matter to avoid feeling rejected in the same way as she was before. Neither party addresses what is underlying the problem, which is her unmet needs - her feeling unloved.
Some husbands use the term "nagging" as an excuse to justify ignoring her need (i.e. tuning her out) or to shame her into silence.
What we know is that neither spouse will be satisfied in the m, with ^^ these types of interactions."*
All the while she was continuing to build up little pices of resentment along the way.
So then let's figure out what You would like to work on here.
When you felt distance grow between you and your w, how did You approach it?
What would you do differently now, if you had another chance?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Constructive feedback Or someone telling you they need something more from you, is not an attack.** When you see feedback as an attack, your response will not be a productive one.
((Hypothetically, What is a wife to do if she has an unmet need but knows her h will lash out at her, for his injured ego?))
I'm asking if you can you see how there is a pattern in your own narrative, herein?
How can we help that narrative serve you better?
Then I saw that i did play a role in things, or at least I made several poor choices elsewhere. And this revelation brought me to my knees.
And then...I grew.
You couldn't be more right about this, my responses to her trying to voice her concerns/feelings to me were horrendous looking back on it now. Again I'm NOT blaming her but I think I took some of the things as an attack cause when she would voice those feelings her tone would come through with frustration so that set the tone for my reaction (not an excuse just an observation of my own memory). Obviously she WAS frustrated cause she wasn't getting her R needs fully met. Seeing all this now I can see so clearly how we would have such a stronger M if/when she would ever give it a chance.
When you felt distance grow between you and your w, how did You approach it?
What would you do differently now, if you had another chance?[/color]
I noticed some distance starting to grow around Feb of this year. That was also the same time we were about to start our 4th IVF attempt so I Assumed she was getting stressed out about having to go through all the treatments again. Looking back (I've been doing that a lot these days) I should've approached her at that time and asked her how she was feeling instead of just saying to myself shes just stressed and has a lot on her mind about this. obviously she wasn't the only one with communication issues, maybe deep down I didn't ask cause I was afraid of the reply I would get? It's just so crazy because truly before the IVF we had great communication between each other. The IVF was truly the first real stress we had in our R and i failed miserably at it. We started the IVF before she talked to me about the lack of intimacy, so she probably also felt like I had lost desire for her during the treatments which is not even close to the truth. I admired her for how courageous she was having to get daily shots and Dr apps weekly, But I DID NOT VOICE THOSE FEELINGS TO HER Why I didn't? I think cause the way I handle stress sometimes I just bottle it up and stay inside my own head.
I want so badly to sit down and talk to her about all of this, shes coming over tomorrow to sign some papers. I have a STRONG urge after this to tell her all of this but I know it will only make matters worse most likely. Do you think that would be a bad idea at this time?
It thank you 25yearsmlc for helping dig out some of these issues that I hadn't seen as clearly as I do know. You truly have been and continue to big such a big help in opening my eyes.
I just found out that my W has been talking to an "old friend" since feb when he moved back to the area. I looked at old phone bills and they were talking at least 5 days a week and sometimes almost 2 hours at a time. I called her tonight and asked her about the guy and she said "you need to stop you're going to drive yourself crazy" she wasn't really mad which I would think she'd pissed if it was nothing. So this changes a lot, if it's not a full on A it's definitely an EA. Idk what to do now
Stunned your pain is palpable and I am very sorry for you and hope it gets better soon. Give yourself a gift and stop snooping. I found so many things that would make reconciliation near impossible for both of us. You know enough. The sooner you detach the sooner the cycling and despair will end. That is the only thing that will make the pain go away.
